BitTorrent Chat Demystified 71
An anonymous reader writes "Can you really do group chat with no central server? BitTorrent's Patrick Williams has developed a new app that leverages a distributed architecture to eliminate the need for any servers — even to host a buddy list. He says magnet links are the key."
ICQ (Score:4, Interesting)
Can you really do group chat with no central server?
ICQ proved that it was possible over a decade ago. Simultaneously, they proved that it was not a good idea (as I remember friends saying, "Who are you talking to? I don't see him! Re-invite!").
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Simultaneously, they proved that it was not a good idea (as I remember friends saying, "Who are you talking to? I don't see him! Re-invite!")
That's an implementation issue, it's quite possible to write p2p chat software at least as good as existing centralized chat software.
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Skype is p2p and while you might not see someone right after you connect it usually ends up showing everyone and is reliable enough.
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Erm Skype does use central servers for coordination.
Re:ICQ (Score:4, Informative)
I believe the only central server is for authentication (as it should be). It might also save the "initial" budy list, but a local copy is also kept.
Or actually, 1 minute in google:
http://www.mjalali.com/blog/?p=10 [mjalali.com]
"Skype Authentication Server: This is the only centralized Skype server which is used to authenticate Skype users. "
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There are also super nodes that Skype runs. If a client doesn't know any peers they connect to a known supernode.
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Not just that, depending on your firewall situation your chats will use the supernode as well.
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supernodes are not run by skype, they are user's computers that satisfy some conditions (not behind a firewall, decent computer/connection). It's all peer to peer.
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If only I could mod this :-(
Magnet links (Score:5, Funny)
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i just threw up in my mouth. that's worse than goatse
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"i just threw up in my mouth. that's worse than goatse"
No you ain't seen nothing [vodpod.com] lol.
That troll needs to be more original and yes that link is not work safe, but I find the reactions hysterical.
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Magnet links, how do they work?
Lobsters [i-am-bored.com]
I did it at Apple in 1991 (Score:5, Informative)
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We are really good at reinventing the wheel. :)
"If you don't learn from the past, it'll repeat itself", or something like that.
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Difference is that the mentioned tech was limited to a single appletalk network. The new stuff got a potential global reach.
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Difference is that the theorized tech is limited to a single planet. The new new stuff got a potential universal reach.
Actually... (Score:3)
I implemented something like this once, a long time ago, on a small scale. Just use sequence numbers to determine order, it might not be perfect, but it worked. Each client held a hash table with a limit size (can't remember) of the people they could "see". If you couldn't find a target you'd just "multicast" it to all the ones you knew were there and ask them to deliver, with a limited number of hops (to avoid infinite cycles).
The initial connection relied on invites. This was academic work, kind of a proof of concept. Why would this be news in this day and age baffles me.
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This was academic work, kind of a proof of concept. Why would this be news in this day and age baffles me.
Because no one cares about academic work. This is interesting because people can actually use it.
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you're not getting my point :)
this was common and part of a course project for everyone there.
it would be usable and it actually is a (very) simple version of how the Gnutella network worked which, if I remember correctly, allowed a very minimalist chat.
also, skype is 99.999% p2p and it has been around for years (although it is a bit more advanced that this scheme).
meh, for anyone that studied this in any degree there is nothing that astonishing in what has been done. Hurray, uTorrent has a chat client that
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this was common and part of a course project for everyone there.
This might be useful information considering the website says that this is "patent pending". This could well be prior art. I haven't looked at the patent application yet though.
Can you? (Score:5, Informative)
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That's what many people sharing on local uni networks started to use after DC++ hubs started to get closed. Funny thing is, while much harder to lock down, WASTE network utterly rapes local bandwidth. So closing DC++ hubs typically turned out a major pain for support, who instead of seeing decrease in internal traffic, saw a very sharp increase.
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This has been possible for a long time.
Some applications that can do this apart from WASTE are:
- Oneswarm
- Retroshare
- GNUnet
- Torchat
All decentralized, and apart from torchat they are all activity being developed.
IRC (Score:5, Funny)
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Good old IRC isn't centralized either! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalnet [wikipedia.org]
Fix'd.
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Prior art? This isn't a patent
Encryption (Score:2)
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WASTE is encrypted and decentralized.
Magnet links? (Score:2, Interesting)
I must be a bit confused about how exactly a magnet link works. In order for me to access the magnet stream for a file I wanted to download, I would need a magnet link pointing to somebody who was serving the file, right?
What happens when the person who the magnet link references turns off their computer? If the magnet link needs to "check in" and update itself on a regular basis to prevent against this, what makes it functionally different than hosting a .torrent?
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It uses the DHT (Score:3)
The BitTorrent DHT is a giant distributed database formed among most of the BT clients that maps ip addresses / port numbers to arbitrary keys. That's how the clients talking in the same room find each other.
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I forgot to mention that I think the Azureus/Vuze DHT and clients, which isn't compatible with the DHT that all other clients use, have had this type of chat feature for a long time. I think they create a chat room for each torrent, so you can chat with other people downloading what you are downloading.
Bonjour and cspace (Score:1)
Bonjour is multicast decentralized chatting.
http://cspace.in/ [cspace.in]
cspace is basically what OP is speaking about.
Nice. (Score:3)
Totally decentralized chat! Awesome! We've needed this for a very long time, and I don't know why it's taken so long to put together. Not that I'm complaining. Soon as there's a Flash applet that'll handle the protocol, we're in business. I hope this is widely adopted.
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The Flash meshing is genuinely impressive. It's a very real implementation and it looks like it really works. The full implementation will be available in 11 - I'm honestly looking forward to it.
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yes it is.
Am I the first ham in the room? APRS was earlier! (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay, it's not the same thing at all (just like most of the other things people are suggesting were first/earlier), but it is decentralized chat with radios, since 1992.
Look it up, even if you're not a ham, it's pretty cool stuff.
73 de AB9UL
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Was done years ago! (Score:2)
R/W access to all torrents ? (Score:1)
When launching uChat :
" uChat is requesting access to :
ability to run in the background
read access to all torrents
write access to all torrents
Would you grant this app access ?"
NO, si i cant test it.
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Latin languages use the word "si" or "se" for the english "if". I guess the GP failed at translating his tought.
Nice idea (Score:2)
...and apparently fairly old and easy to implement. Its a shame that those elite hackers at LULZSec didn't consider using it.