Ford Tests DIY Firmware Updates 164
wiredmikey writes "This month, Ford is borrowing something from the software industry: updates. With a fleet of new cars using the sophisticated infotainment system they developed with Microsoft called SYNC, Ford has the need to update those vehicles — for both features and security reasons. But how do you update the software in thousands of cars? Traditionally, the automotive industry has resorted to automotive recalls. But now, Ford will be releasing thirty thousand USB sticks to Ford owners with the new SYNC infotainment system, although the update will also be available for online download. In preparing to update your car, Ford encourages users to have a unique USB for each Ford they own, and to have the USB drive empty and not password protected. In the future, updating our gadgets, large and small, will become routine. But for now, it's going to be really cumbersome and a little weird. Play this forward a bit. Image taking Patch Tuesday to a logical extreme, where you walk around your house or office to apply patches to many of the offline gadgets you own."
Don't worry guys! (Score:5, Funny)
Sincerely, B. Hat,
Honest Gentleman
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Why is there no "+1 Sad"?
Re:Don't worry guys! (Score:4, Interesting)
Custom ECUs (basically the main computing unit in a car) already exist. It used to be that you'd have to remove a manual piece of the car to get rid of pesky things like speed limiters - now that stuff is coded in software.The car enthusiasts decided to go all Wozniak on these bitches and just make their own car computers.
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The car enthusiasts decided to go all Wozniak on these bitches and just make their own car computers.
You just made my day.
Patch Tuesday... (Score:5, Funny)
"Play this forward a bit. Image taking Patch Tuesday to a logical extreme, where you walk around your house or office to apply patches to many of the offline gadgets you own."
I'm assuming by the time we need to upgrade firmware or software on our refrigerators, toasters, coffee makers, and toilets that they'll all be sentient and just do it themselves.
Re:Patch Tuesday... (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, I have a 10 year old ordinary Ford pickup, and I recently had to reboot it. The transmission wasn't leaving 2nd gear (a.k.a. the "safety" gear), so when I stopped at the next intersection, I shut the engine off, waited five seconds, then turned it back on. It was fine after that.
I have no idea what went wrong, only that a reboot fixed it. I'm just glad I was able to choose the circumstances, rather than have the truck decide to update itself in the middle of the road because it forgot it wasn't in the garage.
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Weird that you replied to my post with this problem. I have this same (or similar) problem with my Explorer. Did the OD light start blinking or stay on? Mine does this, and turning the truck off and back on fixes it. The bad part is that it only gets worse, and now I'm lucky to get to work without it kicking in. I've had it not want to shift out of second a few times, but usually it just doesn't want to downshift when accelerating, meaning you have to floor it just to get moving from a stop.
It's appare
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Or the sensor is fine, it's just getting bad data from a faulty transmission.
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I remember seeing the OD light being on unexpectedly recently, (probably in conjunction with this incident,) but I don't recall if it was blinking or not. It's only happened a few times, once about two months ago, and once about two weeks ago. (I refuse to believe that two points makes a trend.) And mine's a Ranger, which is built on the same frame as the Explorer.
Your post just made me think of it, and that if the update software was of the same quality that it could just as easily have been so stupid a
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I want you to explain this in an easily understandable way, but you can't use a car analogy because it's already about cars! I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REAL ANYMORE!
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Easily solved. When things are backwards, start thinking backwards. I use computer analogies all the time when talking to gear-heads.
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Microsoft WSUS - Home edition (Score:2)
When is someone going to release a software package to handle a household's updates automatically? People aren't going to want to think about it.....
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O for the day that cars were cars, toasters were toasters, and men were men ...
Wait a minute there... (Score:5, Funny)
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You can't write a piece of entertainment software in 18 months? Surely not.
Re:Wait a minute there... (Score:4, Funny)
I would argue that if gave an unreasonable deadly for a hello world program, many of them would have a bug of some sort.
"You have 1 minute to write a hello world program...45 seconds of which will be in a meeting to be sure every one knows what is taking place.
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I would argue that if gave an unreasonable deadly for a hello world program, many of them would have a bug of some sort.
"You have 1 minute to write a hello world program...45 seconds of which will be in a meeting to be sure every one knows what is taking place.
Oh, shit, my manager's posting on Slashdot!
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moh-nutr-no:~ mark$ python
Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jun 24 2010, 21:47:49)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print "Hello World"
'Hello World'
This seems like an "unreasonably deadly" program.
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That's just the upfront story. Noone saw the progress meeting at 55 seconds coming, and the emergency meeting called at 0:59 for everyone to justify why they are late on the project and to schedule meetings every 5 seconds from then on to closer track the progress, because obviously the problem was with the employees not working on the project because management wasn'
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Even a "Hello World" program can have bugs. As soon as I modify it to allow the user to type his name and get "Hello $NAME", there's the potential for buffer overflow. :)
my car crashed (Score:4, Insightful)
no, really. no, not like that. I was just running this firmware update and now there's a note on the dash telling me there was a problem and I need to restart my car? but when I turn the key it won't start anymore?
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At least you didn't get the blue windscreen of death....
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I consider myself lucky to have never bricked anything with a firmware update before. But can you just imagine bricking your CAR?
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I think most people would consider replacing a car's internal module to be "taking apart".
A more general description of "bricking" would be "requiring service not normally intended to be performed by the average user".
"service" broadens the scope to include things like replacing internal modules, electrical repair, reflashing firmware, reseating an internal cable, pr
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since you could try and buffer overflow an input?
Even if the system is completely disconnected from everything else on the car, it would still be problematic to have your entertainment system crash constantly.
Even if the system itself is read only (which has it's own problems) it could still crash if it tries to read in bad data.
Whenever you use an existing platform you accept that there's going to be some problems, some fixable, some not, in an era of software you have no excuse for not fixing known proble
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The real solution here is to make sure the entertainment system is totally decoupled (or read only enforced with hardware) the systems that operate the vehicle itself.
Re:Wait a minute there... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, the preliminary reviews of the new version sound promising so I am at least a little hopeful. I am still quite frustrated, however, that I've had to deal with such awful software for well over a year on a brand new vehicle that cost almost $40k.
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That, unfortunately, is a problem with being an early adopter.
This strikes me as the kind of stuff you wait for version 3 before you buy it. Because if this is essentially a rewrite, it's likely still a Steaming Heap of Innovative Technology with an entirely
Re:Wait a minute there... (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe the problem is that touch screens are absolutely terrible in situations where you cant devote your whole attention to them. I can adjust basically everything in my '03 car without taking my eyes off of the road because of this fancy feature called "tactile feedback" which comes standard with all the knobs in my var.
Try doing that with your fancy touch screen. Bonus points if its anywhere near as responsive as the knobs.
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The Fender stereo system in my wife's new Jetta is bitchin', and the software so far has performed flawlessly.
Being rather old school myself (I drive a 1980's carburated truck), I typically lift my nose at any automotive technological gadgetry that doesn't increase the performance of the vehicle... however, I will begrudgingly admit it's pretty awesome to have my music stream jump from my phone to the car stereo with no manual intervention on my part (other than inserting the key).
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Well, the hardware was made by Sony, so "update" means:
a) remove functionality
b) rooting and snitching on your usage
c) adding requirement for cryptic, lightning-fast keypresses to perform even the most-basic functions, like turning on
c) new TOS to prevent suing
I cannot think of a better Marriage Made in Hell than Sony and Microsoft. B*stards forever :-)
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You mean putting a Bluetooth device running Windows on the same CANBus that runs your car's door locks, steering lock, ignition, fuel injection, electronic power steering, braking and throttle and etc. etc. etc. wasn't a good idea after all?
Wow, who saw that one coming?!
Remember, folks, CANBus does not have any authentication; any device on the bus can send arbitrary packets to anything else on the bus. Putting a wireless device on there is probably not a great idea.
Re:Wait a minute there... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Yes. The "fool me once" moment, WinCE, is shame on you, Microsoft! BUT .. the "fool me twice" moment is shame on [insert automotive company]!
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And of course no downgrades possible... (Score:2)
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In that case, you'd be better off with the Microsoft model. Providing, of course, you follow the time-honed tradition of postponing things until the release of the first service pack. Will it still fit on a USB stick, I wonder.
Snarky comments aside, it would be interesting to see whether other manufacturers adopt anything similar for their products. If they don't, well, I don't have to get annoyed until 2:00 a.m some time this November.
*digs out cell* (Score:3, Funny)
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You joke, but the Ford Fusion at least has a "limp home mode" that recently required a visit to the stealership. The diagnosis: throttle body for $900. Had them just clear the code and the car has gone thousands of miles since. The actual cause? A dead battery. A dead battery is a common failure mode and should not throw spurious diagnostic codes that disable the vehicle until reset by the dealership.
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Magnuson-Moss/bricking your car? (Score:3)
Goodbye Magnuson-Moss, it was nice knowing you! A service pack for your car. Good luck with that. What if it bricks your car? How much does a replacement dashboard computer cost after warranty, due to a faulty update? Who is liable for that if it happens?
Has anyone seen the EULA for this thing? If it isn't significantly different from normal software EULAs, I'm avoiding this sort of technology like the plague.
But wait: How to drop from 5th to 23rd place... (Score:5, Interesting)
...in the JD Power IQS Customer Satisfaction Rankings [dailytech.com]: ... Not surprisingly, MyFord Touch was the biggest contributor to Ford's fall from grace. "
"Ford went from a fifth place ranking in the 2011 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study to a mediocre 23rd place showing this year. Sister-brand Lincoln took a similar nosedive, falling from eighth place all the way down to 17th place this year.
And who designed the MyFord touch? Give you one guess [wikipedia.org].
Re:But wait: How to drop from 5th to 23rd place... (Score:5, Interesting)
"For new car owners whose MyFord Touch systems crash, both Ford dealerships and Ford-sponsored websites have been recommending that owners disconnect the black (negative) lead to the battery for several minutes, reconnect, then run the car for at least five minutes to reboot the MyFord Touch system. Owners have complained that this is extremely inconvenient, even dangerous in many situations, and should not be required of owners who have paid tens-of-thousands of dollars for their new cars."
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Holy crap. I made a joke in my head about rebooting a car, but MS has again found a way to make truth stranger than fiction (from the wiki):
"For new car owners whose MyFord Touch systems crash, both Ford dealerships and Ford-sponsored websites have been recommending that owners disconnect the black (negative) lead to the battery for several minutes, reconnect, then run the car for at least five minutes to reboot the MyFord Touch system. Owners have complained that this is extremely inconvenient, even dangerous in many situations, and should not be required of owners who have paid tens-of-thousands of dollars for their new cars."
As mentioned in many other places, the User Interface software (Which is the crappy part) was written in Flash by a company called BSQUARED, and is pretty much unrelated to the Windows CE underpinning supplied by Microsoft, or the rest of the car designed by Ford...
But hey, when has the truth ever stopped any Microsoft bashing around here?
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"For new car owners whose MyFord Touch systems crash, both Ford dealerships and Ford-sponsored websites have been recommending that owners disconnect the black (negative) lead to the battery for several minutes, reconnect, then run the car for at least five minutes to reboot the MyFord Touch system
As much as it chagrins me to jump to the defense of either company, I can tell you from professional experience that pulling the negative cable for 3-5 minutes has been a valid diagnostic tool/repair ever since they started putting computers in cars.
Owners have complained that this is extremely inconvenient, even dangerous in many situations, and should not be required of owners who have paid tens-of-thousands of dollars for their new cars.
No more dangerous than your typical 16-year-old.
Idiot car owners are a lot like idiot users: They don't understand thing 1 about the system they're using, but they won't hesitate to jump your ass and bitch endlessly the first time it does something they don't
Re:But wait: How to drop from 5th to 23rd place... (Score:4, Interesting)
Why should car owners have to understand anything (I'm not talking about the need to change the oil or keep up the tire pressure).
Why should they have to understand the "need" for a reboot?
Rebooting may well be a valid diagnostic technique, but it doesn't make it any more acceptable for the car manufacturer. Their anger was not directed at you as a mechanic. Their anger is directed toward the maker who can't get a car to run in the 21st century without "crashing".
Re:But wait: How to drop from 5th to 23rd place... (Score:4, Informative)
Cyanogen mod for Sync (Score:2)
Your car (Score:2)
is the next target for viruses.
But this time the machine to crash won't be your PC.
Drivers are now Users. (Score:2)
From TFS: "Ford encourages users to have a...."
Just cant get my mind around that yet. So now car companies will be referring to their customers as users instead of drivers. fun times ahead.
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Just wait until they figure out they can tie use of all advanced features of the entertainment system to an account that they control.
And require a fee to activate a car on your account.
Same kind of bullshit they do with on-disc "DLC" or online play activation codes for the used video game market.
Don't want to pay? Have fun with nothing but AM/FM radio.
"But customers won't accept that!"
Sure they will--just make the awesome entertainment system package free in new cars. Small cost to the manufacturer up fr
No way! (Score:4, Insightful)
There is no friggin way i would let Microsoft anywhere near my car. They have a much too bad track record for that. This is something that makes me take two large steps away from any Ford car. I was entertaining getting a Ford but after having read this, no way in hell.
Horrible Summary is Horrible (Score:5, Informative)
In summary:
User firmware upgrades !new
User firmware upgrades !experimental
Mass USB mailings !SYNC
The only thing experimental is the mass mailing of USB sticks.
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I have been doing user firmware and operating system / feature / Gracenote updates on my Mopar "MyGig/UConnect" infotainment system since 2008.
I download a CD/DVD image, burn it, put it in my van and it reboots, installs/upgrades, then I am good to go.
The only thing owners can't do (easily) is update the Navteq maps because they (Mopar) want like $200 for that (hello smartphone!).
The most faulty devices in cars are drivers . . . (Score:2)
. . . can we update and patch them as well?
Mechanic: "I'm sorry, sir, but I need to replace the brick behind the wheel of your car to fix it . . . "
Car Computer Analogy (Score:3)
Either one is highly vulnerable to bad drivers.
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car downloads update in canada on 3g big data bill (Score:2)
car OS connects to 3G/4G does not know you are roaming and at $20 a meg it costs you $400 for a small 20 meg update Or say $3000 for a 150 MEG update.
Remember the "self-healing software" hype? (Score:2)
Circa the mid-nineties... the media was gushing over the latest trend, how great it was going to be, and how it was going to solve our update problems. One example would be this piece by Brian Livingston [google.com]. In the wondrous world of the future, "the user does little or no work, other than clicking a menu button to start the upgrade process. Sometimes not even that is necessary. The software dials up[sic] the vendor's BBS or the World Wide Web site automatically installs any components that are newer than the t
Could be worse, could be Kenwood (Score:2)
Do you know how to update the bluetooth drivers on a high end Kenwood head unit? The only way to do it is via Bluetooth. So if your BT isn't working correctly, you should have it connect to a bluetooth device and do an update. Update not work and your BT is no longer operational? Just update it by connecting to the...oh shit.
I haven't had it fail, but damn it just seems ripe for problems. Of course, it's Kenwood, so nothing really works well.
This is part of the reason I won't buy a Ford. (Score:2)
I am very concerned about stability, as a matter of fact I dedicate myself to not crashing my vehicles. Installing Windows on my vehicle is an incredibly counter intuitive when it comes to achieving that goal. I would be like putting bricks and eggs in the same shipping container to protect the eggs from outside dangers.
logical extreme huh? (Score:2)
I leave my car parked, top-down. Someone walks by, installs a patch that disables my brakes. So who's at fault? Me for not protecting my car, mazda for not key-protecting the upgrade system, the mazda software team for not password-protecting the upgrade system, or the someone who walked by and just plugged something in? Didn't steal anything, didn't take anything, didn't directly damage anything, just plugged a usb into a slot -- maybe not even his own usb. maybe it was my usb with an experimental pat
God dammit (Score:2)
If Americans have to reboot their cars... (Score:3)
Ford is going to shit (Score:2)
They're gotten to be almost as bad as Toyota, Honda, VW and MB.
Wireless indeed (Score:2)
With an 802.x wireless interface Ford could assume that people's home wireless network reaches their car or garage. Park within range and call up the in-car menu to start the update (and don't stall out!).
And if it doesn't reach or if you don't have access to a parking place near your coffee shop that has free wi-fi, drive over to your Ford dealer and use theirs (or they can patch you when you go for service).
I wish I had 802.x access to my car to update my music drive.
Re:Wi-Fi? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wi-Fi? (Score:4, Insightful)
seems more like the sort of thing that should be done routinely when you get your maintenance done, but then mechanic shops would need to have computer techs on staff, and replacement parts for when things go badly.
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but then mechanic shops would need to have computer techs on staff
Why?
Roll the update machine over, plug it into the (presumably new for this purpose) update plug, flip the (probably hidden) write-enable switch. Power up the machine, type in the VIN - update is determined and uploaded. Reverse the process to disconnect.
They do that same kind of shit with OBDC scantools already. Just an extra couple of steps.
and replacement parts for when things go badly.
I could see this, yes. But, if it was designed properly - they would only need to keep a stash of MMCs or something similar and just swap them out. It's only a pain to
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Because mechanical people aren't software people, and inevitably some firware flashings will brick the firmware, and you need someone who is an electronics guy to fix it. You need to know how to operate the machine, how to identify problems with the update or with the machine, and have some idea how to fix them.
Right now they plug in a computer, it spits out a code and they work from there. But now you're into actually mucking with the software on the car you need people who are specialists in what the new
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Because mechanical people aren't software people, and inevitably some firware flashings will brick the firmware, and you need someone who is an electronics guy to fix it.
Unplug "brain", put in pre-flashed "brain", send old one in to be repaired/refurbished. Nobody's going to troubleshoot a failed flash... they'd assume the part was broken and replace it.
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Basically, combine the two things I said and you get what nschubach is telling you.
In short: pop out the chip and toss it in the RMA pile. Slap a fresh one in and reflash.
The only reason it might be complicated enough to require special training or technicians is that the designers were idiots and made it so.
The stern pinball sam system board (Score:2)
I could see this, yes. But, if it was designed properly - they would only need to keep a stash of MMCs or something similar and just swap them out. It's only a pain to deal with bricked routers and such because they solder the flash to the board. Put the device's storage on removable media and that issue goes away. Put the very basic bootloader on the board if you must, but the whole thing doesn't need to be on there.
This wouldn't be so bad - just another part they have to grab from the parts store, like any other. Hell the car manufacturers could standardize it (or at least stay consistent within the brand. For example, all Nissans would use the same chip/card/cartridge. If the bootloader in the hardware is coded right the first time, then larger sizes/speeds won't matter (just like they don't for PCs)
The stern pinball sam system board is like that basic code is on a eeprom that is there to let it boot up and flash the game code into the flash roms from a USB key. So you just need a basic fall back code that can read from a disk or key and update the main flash.
add a dip switch to force it to boot from the eeprom like you have to do with the sam boards to update them.
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Man, if I only had mod points... Using the main board of a pinball machine as an example just made my day. Thank you.
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I'm not suprised. It's a good idea, that's been implemented all over the place in embedded systems. Doesn't really take a stretch of the imagination to realize it would work in a car ECU as well.
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Firmware updates are already routine in dealership stops. If you have a recently-built car that you take to the dealership for service, and you look closely at the invoice, you'll often see a handful of "recalls" that were done for free, and that the service advisor didn't even mention. Most of these are firmware fixes.
My brand new luxury car has an annoying problem with the transmission not wanting to downshift occasionally (you can see other threads about such problems, apparantly a common problem these
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That sort of thing is really mind-blowing.
I saw a guy with a brand-new BMW that just decided to stop, while running on the road.
What, then, remains the point of spending 2X or 3X the cost of a "normal" car for a "luxury" car.
Certainly not being able to not worry.
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>If only Libre or Open Office supported VB macros.
It does (if the macros are already in your worksheet imported from XL).
It doesn't really allow you to create new macros with the MS dot notation and there's no Intellisense (popup list of object properties).
That's because, in typical fashion, it's over-engineered ("Universal Network Objects") and useless: the objects are dynamic, so the system can't know what the object properties are at the time of editing. Colossally stupid, and also the #1 reason why C
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The vehicles do have wi-fi and Bluetooth. I can, for example, tether my phone to my vehicle which will, in turn, create a hotspot that other wi-fi devices can connect to (in the days of mobile iPhone and Android hot spots, this seems like a pretty unnecessary feature).
I would imagine that Ford is already sweating the self-server USB updates enough that they wouldn't want to risk over-the-air updates on the first go-round.
Give it a few years.
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I enjoyed this typo. It is eerily appropriate.
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hope on your home network
Nice Freudian slip.
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Or, if they could be updated like the Kindle (3G or WiFi), Ford could handle them all without the owner getting involved. And they wouldn't need to mail out 30,000 USB sticks or CDs.
Plus, Ford could then get real feedback from how the car is performing.
Because no one ever took advantage of short-sighted manufacturers that aren't security-conscious to do anything malicious to a car. Oh, wait... [itworld.com] Also, awesome insurance scam in the works if you can do a hostile takeover of a rich guy's car (the ones that will probably have cars with Wi-Fi) and make him get into a rear-end accident. BAM! Sweet-ass cash truck from his rich guy insurance agency. No cop will believe "My car got hacked."
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Or, if they could be updated like the Kindle (3G or WiFi), Ford could handle them all without the owner getting involved. And they wouldn't need to mail out 30,000 USB sticks or CDs.
Plus, Ford could then get real feedback from how the car is performing.
Because no one ever took advantage of short-sighted manufacturers that aren't security-conscious to do anything malicious to a car. Oh, wait... [itworld.com]
Also, awesome insurance scam in the works if you can do a hostile takeover of a rich guy's car (the ones that will probably have cars with Wi-Fi) and make him get into a rear-end accident. BAM! Sweet-ass cash truck from his rich guy insurance agency. No cop will believe "My car got hacked."
A USB stick that arrives through the mail is hardly more secure than a Wifi update. It could even be less secure since an attacker could drop 10,000 of them in the mail anonymously without having to risk physical proximity to the car he's trying to hack.
Hopefully Ford uses digital signatures to validate the integrity of an update before the car will accept it, but signature validation works equally well (or poorly) whether its a USB Flash update or Wifi update.
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They might not have enough space for 3x the install (previous working copy, current copy, downloaded copy) and streaming a firmware update over wifi is just asking for trouble.
That may well be true, but it would be stupid since even a USB transfer can be interrupted or corrupt. And it doesn't change my point that security is not a reason to send customers a USB stick in the mail rather than letting their car download the update via Wifi.
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They didn't embed and data/antenna hookup to it. So while it has GPS... if you want data or cell you have to use your phone.
That all being said, I believe they set stuff up so it can connect to the internet if there's a wifi hotspot nearby (mobile or whatever). In which case they COULD make it so you: park in your garage, connect to the internet, click on something to patch it.
But trying to get Grandma to figure out how to connect to the WiFi with that touch screen... it might be easier to say: Plug this
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There will be lots of places you'll be offline...hell I *want* to be offline in many places...
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I would hope that you could actually USE your car (without the SYNC system) while updating, so you could do it while driving to work.
and the gas used in that time frame as well (Score:2)
I want to be able to drive at the same time so I am not useing up gas on just a update.
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You laugh, but the first thing I looked for when I heard of SYNC was looked to see if someone had created a replacement ROM.
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What must you do if you installed a hitch?