Rogers Joins Telus In Seeking National Regulation 53
silentbrad writes "Canada's largest mobile service provider is urging the federal telecom regulator to implement a mandatory national consumer protection code (PDF; actual filing with the CRTC) in order to defuse the threat posed by a growing hotchpotch of provincial regulations for wireless services. Rogers Communications Inc. submitted that proposal to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission in an application late Thursday. In doing so, Rogers becomes the second major carrier to ask the CRTC to resume active regulation of the terms and conditions for wireless service contracts, a practice it largely abandoned during the 1990s. Nonetheless, those regulatory powers, while latent, remain in the Telecommunications Act, meaning the CRTC can still exercise its authority over those matters."
Surprising. (Score:1)
Honestly I would have thought Telus' request to be a move knowing it would cause problems for Rogers, seeing as Telus and Bell have a reciprocal network sharing agreement and so tend to collude on most matters.
I have to be missing something here.
Re:Surprising. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
bureaucracy gets the blame for every half-wit legislative idea that is implemented poorly because it cannot be implemented correctly due to being not thought out at all and being written by an idiot.
bureaucracy is what first implements laws, written by morons, into regulations then implement regulations into a process that actually gets something done.
like anything else a department can be poorly structured and inefficient in which case
Re: (Score:3)
I wouldn't go that far, at least in Canada. Regulators walk a fine line between the public and industry. Usually they have one master (whatever the political party of the day is, which can change things), and two focuses one of the public and one of the industry. Usually the idea behind the industry support is to ensure that they are strong and vital, so that the industry is available to the public, producing jobs, services, goods or whatever. The public of course is looking out for what is it the best inte
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Having a flatter and more distributed government that is more "local" than "federal" means that corruption is much more expensive to achieve than it is with a large federal bureaucratic government. Also, with less (not none. Less.) regulation generally, there is less market distortion and the bar to entry is significantly lower. This enables more competition and everyone benefits.
That's a cute theory but unfortunately the historical evidence from the mid 19th century to the early 20th century shows it's bunk.
Re: (Score:1)
It is sometimes not very intelligent to protest vital regulation on basis that all regulation is evil as if it is vital then it will slip trough on lower levels which causes a mess that is costly to everybody. Sufficiently well thought trough regulation may be beneficial (either because indeed it was thought trough or because of luck). The good example is: USA had always better technology in mobile networks than Europe. Yet it was/is Europe where coverage an
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. What more proof do you need than Rogers and telus ASKING to be regulated by the CRTC?
Re: (Score:2)
Much harder to successfully bribe several provinces than it is to bribe one government entity; particularly true if your lobbyist already own said entity.
Oooh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
It is easy to manipulate a single Federal regulator than all those pesky provinces. No business seeks to protect consumers, just themselves. If they say otherwise it is just spin.
Re:Oooh (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. They want a convenient one-stop-shop for all their politician-purchasing needs. Plus, it's more difficult to bribe local leaders who might personally be effected by the Telco's tyranny and have their own interest in seeing more competition.
Re:Oooh (Score:5, Informative)
They want a convenient one-stop-shop for all their politician-purchasing needs.
"Purchasing" isn't exactly the right term here. The CRTC chairman was an Assistant Director at Bell and a President at Rogers. He's still technically working for Rogers and Bell, except at a fancier government office that's all.
Re:Conflict of Interest (Score:2)
Oh I am so relieved to hear there is no conflict of interest involved in his appointment or execution of his office. Who appointed him?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
i did the opposite and now I'm with MTS unlimited 3G data for $75/month. Rogers refuses to offer that option so they can DIAF. Granted I brought my own unlocked Android phone so I'm on month to month.. but that's a bonus as well. MTS's biggest failure is in their still pathetic phone selection. I almost think someone at RIM is a major shareholder and refuses to let them offer anything that isn't a blackberry.
Re: (Score:3)
Got that right. Remember the Industry Canada wireless calculator? No?
Basically it was an online tool that helped consumers figure out the best deal on their cellphone by letting them compare apples with apples.
Just over a month ago, the Harper Government killed it. Not that it was overbudget
It's all about the contracts (Score:4, Interesting)
Getting the cheap/free cellphone in Canada often involves signing up for long 3 year plan with huge penalties if you quit early.
I'm not sure of all the provinces, but I know that both Quebec and Manitoba have new laws in place requiring better contract disclosure and limiting those penalties.
I suspect that Rogers and Telus are afraid the other provinces will enact the same or stronger legislation.
Re:It's all about the contracts (Score:5, Informative)
Ontario has one up for debate with tri-party support in the legislature right now. While the specifics are different, the essentials are the same as the Manitoba law. One thing I'm particularly fond of is the changes to the early termination fees, which they're looking at turning into an extra charge on your monthly bill. Essentially like the Koodo Tab, only with it being a real charge on top of the monthly fees, so that when you're not on a contract, you pay less.
Rogers probably realizes they can't win this one. In the long run, every province will go this way. What they probably want is for the CRTC to enact a national policy so that they don't get stuck with the administrative hassle that is having 12 separate contract fee and termination structures.
Re: (Score:3)
Because 12 different sets of rules are so complicated? The USA has 50 different sets of rules... And it seems to me manageable ... I'd call BS!
Re: (Score:2)
Not really, the FCC and FTC regulate most of this stuff. That's why contracts are standard state-to-state in the US. If anything this is clearly what Canowhoopass.com is writing about. I read the PDF quickly and it sounds like they want to go back to the old rules of if you break a contract you need to pay for your subsidy and a huge fee to offset its cost. This is clearly a grab-back move where they lost to the provinces and now want to grab back by having the federal government give them their old rul
Re: (Score:1)
Re:It's all about the contracts (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds delicious (Score:4, Funny)
A "hotchpotch" is a mutton stew. Do you mean a "hodgepodge"? :-) :-)
Lesson: Never edit when you're hungry
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
From oxforddictionaries.com
hotchpotch
(North American hodgepodge)
noun
1 [in singular] a confused mixture:
a hotchpotch of uncoordinated services
2a mutton stew with mixed vegetables.
Re: (Score:1)
Only in /. does a news snippet about mobile telephony regulation quickly morph to a discussion of etymology and usage of a word for "stew"
(smile when you say that son)
Diffuse? (Score:1)
I can see it now in their boardroom:
The Board: "Gahh! The threat! The Threat! It is so opaque and solid! What will we do?"
VP for Regulatory Affairs: "I know! Let's diffuse it!"
VP for Queen's English: "Wait, don't you mean 'defuse [merriam-webster.com]?' "
CEO: "Quiet, peon! I agree; let's diffuse [merriam-webster.com] the threat!"
The Board: "Yaaaay! More bonuses!"
CRTC, batting for the consumer? (Score:1)
I worked for a local canadian ISP for many years. We could buy local-loops from the incumbent phone company for 12 dollars per line, per month, and sell DSL. Or, we would have been able to if the incumbent decided that "those are alarm loop lines only.". the crtc should have leveled the playing field by saying that one line is one price, not 2 prices for 2 different industries. the carrier wanted to charge 160/mo per line (when they sold dsl for 40/mo to end-users) to us, and 12 to alarm companies for liter
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
They can't even keep their own policies straight.
I'm trying to unlock an old Fido (subsidiary of Rogers) iPhone from a deactivated account. It's an official, permanent factory unlock that costs $50.
4 different customer service reps, 3 different courses of action. Two of them tried directing me to sketchy $15 unlocking services in malls--but I'm 99% certain that's just a jailbreak + unlock (which I could do myself), which is lost if ever the phone software is updated or restored.
I can't believe how many road
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This is an iPhone, so the carrier doesn't have its own custom firmware. There's a few carrier-specific config settings that get updated from time to time, but that doesn't contain the lock/unlock status.
The jailbreak+unlock isn't available for all iPhones, especially newer ones or older iPhone models with an updated iOS and modem baseband.
Apple keeps a list of which IMEI numbers are locked to which company. Through this official unlock, Fido and Rogers customers, after satisfying far too many conditions, ca
Re: (Score:2)
Keep out competition (Score:4, Insightful)
One of the things that the old players probably fear the most is newcomers doing "evil" things such as offering data at a low price without making the customer first sign up for a bunch of crap they don't want. Also I can see them somehow figuring out a ruleset that makes 3 year contracts a de-facto standard.
In Atlantic Canada I am counting the days until I can dump Telus for one of the two new players coming this spring.
God I hate the CRTC (Score:1)
Conflicts (Score:2)
When anyone has to comply with multiple regulations for the same thing conflicts can and usually do occur. One regulation may focus on one aspect and give the industry a break on another aspect while a second regulation may do the exact opposite.
For example;
Province A regulation states the maximum contract length is 2 years and the maximum monthly penalty is 1/12 of the contract value. This regulation focuses on the contract length while giving a break on the cancellation penalty.
Province B regulation state