The 300 km/h Superbus 180
pigrabbitbear writes "Have you heard of the Superbus? You could have already, as it has been in prototype production for years, and has recently been gaining more attention at auto shows and through public demonstrations. Like a stretch Batmobile that seems yet another triumph for Saudi and Emirate auto enthusiasts, passengers and their entourages enter the car under a row of gull-wings. The bus runs on batteries, and it can fly along at nearly 300 km/h (or 192 mph), and quite 'silently.'"
It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Interesting)
First of all, the "thing" at the web site referenced is not a bus, itâ(TM)s a stretch limo. For example, the article goes on to say "The bus, which is better described as a sex-oozing cigarette-car..." Itâ(TM)s not a bus.
Secondly, yes, I like the idea of a 200 MPH bus. As long as it is mechanically fixed in some way to a dedicated road â" maybe with something like a continuous piece of metal to guide it and prevent it from careening into space...
Lastly, what's with the link to some advert-laden page-view magnet, instead of a direct link to the website of the project in question? Does Slashdot employ editors anymore? Did they ever?
Here it is: http://www.superbusproject.com/ [superbusproject.com]
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as you're using a continuous piece of metal to keep it on the road, you could energize that metal and eliminate the need for batteries.
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Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Funny)
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That "Whooooosh!" is a pretty good indicator of too much air resistance.
god the 70's had some AWFUL movies (Score:5, Funny)
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But that whoosh has to be "silent."
Of course, they'll promptly be required to add noise in order to warn pedestrians.
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Funny)
So you'd have to give it an artifical noise, to warn passers-by that it's approaching. Like, I dunno, "Choo-choo!" or similar.
Thomas the tank engine theme song?
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:4, Funny)
They're two, they're four, they're six, they're eight,
Shunting trucks and hauling freight!
Red and green and brown and blue,
They're the really useful crew!
Why, yes, I DO have a 3 year old! Why do you ask?
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That's awful... when I was three years old this was the theme [youtube.com].
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And TFS also says it runs super-silent. So you'd have to give it an artifical noise, to warn passers-by that it's approaching. Like, I dunno, "Choo-choo!" or similar.
How about "Whooosh"?
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Current hybrid cars have scared me half to death on my daily cycle to work - imagine a freaking sex oozing cigarette car passing by going CHOOOCHOOOOO.
Worse, imagine arriving at work covered in cigarette car sex ooze!
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Funny)
I believe the proper term is NICTOJIZM.
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+1 funny
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>dedicated road
Yes. That would fly.
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Quite a hazard to aircraft, though I'm puzzled as to why it would be a necessary requirement.
Strat
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I am not sure a Super-Bus will solve our Mass Transpiration needs. I find the issue isn't as much about the Top Speed of the Bus. But the logistics of getting enough people to fill it up, and Drop them off in the right spots.
Having a rail line, or a bus lane, only helps in particular areas.
For Americans we are often much too spread out for good mass transit. Getting from Point A to Point B will take 3 hours. For 10 miles... It is actually faster to Bike, then to take the bus. Unless you are in NYC or
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In NYC, a Big Wheel [mydamnchannel.com] beats the bus. That's not a fluke, either; I've beaten the M14 just walking.
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you build the rail, people will live there. The only reason people live by highways is because ... the highway was put there to attract residential development.
Raleigh is currently suffering major growing pains, and unfortunately the state has chosen to build a highway through farmlands to house everyone... yeah, I definitely want to live 40 miles from RTP in the middle of nowhere and commute with $5/gal gas looming on the horizon... no, building a light rail system and encouraging people to live in the Raleigh/Durham corridor is a waste of money I tell you.
Where there is rail, people will use it. See NYC (commuting into NYC from Long Island is a breeze on the train, effectively impossible by car, and that's a good thing), Boston, DC, etc. DC to a lesser extent because the Metro hasn't expanded into areas where people live, but MARC is tolerable if you only need to go into the city in the morning and back out in the evening.
The whole "we're too spread out" argument is perfectly valid in the midwest though... and luckily most of our population exists hugging the coast lines. So... highways for the midwesterners, rail for the rest of us! Unfortunately, U.S. central policy is obsessed with "one solution for every part of our geographically diverse land" for whatever reason.
Rail needs either distance or population density (Score:2)
Rail needs either distance or population density to be economically viable. Given that 50% of the U.S. population lives within 50 miles of a coast, yeah, it works in densely populated areas, but for example the rail in the middle of nowhere they plan here in California isn't going to see a lot of ridership.
Even if it's economically viable, it does give a nice single choke-point where people without individual transport can have their mobility drastically reduced if someone in power thinks it's in their bes
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But Europe is so packed that you don't need to travel 40 miles. The United States is 3rd in population, but 50th in Population Density. That means infrastructure projects in the United States are much harder then in Europe.
In many States, we have some strong weather extreams too. For example NY state gets to the mid to high 90 with high humidity during the summer (So your car is going to need AC) in the winter is is not uncommon to get snow storms that drop 2-3 feet of snow over night, sure they plow the
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a 4x4 for a little snow?!!*
Says that man the grew up in MN, went to college in the upper penisula of MI near the lake, and is back in MN now and has always driven a front wheel drive car... (granted I did lose the rear end once while not messing around, but it was on a well plowed road with no snow coming down, just some ice.)
Re:It's SENSATIONAL! But also kind of BORING! (Score:5, Interesting)
You're doing it wrong. Instead of trying to graft a mass transport system on to a city you need to make new destinations that mass transport can take you to. In Japan the rail companies build big stations in new places, complete with attached shopping centre, and it becomes a destination in itself. That then helps relieve congestion in other areas too.
Ideally you want to design around transport, but since we have big cities that need to be dealt with this is a good option for re-engineering them.
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Oblig. (Score:2)
what's with the link to some advert-laden page-view magnet
The internet has ads?
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You'd like it till you rode in it that fast.
Have you honestly rode/ driven anything over 150 mph? At 160 phone poles actually begin picket fence illusion. at 180 you realize gforce has you firmly back in your seat and every pebble in the road becomes a factor in handling.At 200 mph you pray your tires( rated for no more than 80 mph) don't come apart and any vibration your car ever had comes to life like a percussion section. This test has personally been conducted by me using a Mach I with a 429 cobra jet,
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Why do I continue to come here and read the drivel that gets posted or the ridiculous responses that such trivial matters illicit from the great Slashed masses?
Masochism? Either that, or it gives you some sort of right to yell up the stairs to your Mom "I'm busy!" when she calls you to come and take out the garbage.
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Yawn (Score:4, Informative)
I'll pass, I saw the film: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bus [wikipedia.org]
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One of the best parts of that movie is how the tire changes happen -- at full speed and the old tire is ejected off to the side.
I saw that movie... (Score:5, Funny)
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YES! I loved that movie.
Please be aware (Score:5, Funny)
That the bathroom is broken, and the next stop is in 1500 miles.
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With the quoted battery rage of 200 km/125 miles per charge, you'd have 12 stops in that 1500 miles just to swap batteries out. With stops that frequent, I doubt there would ever be a need for an on-board bathroom.
Sounds super (Score:1)
The bus runs on batteries, and it can fly along at nearly 300 km/h (or 192 mph), and quite 'silently.'
Great, as if it wasn't easy enough to get hit by a bus before, they went and invented one that can do 192 MPH while making no noise...
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You could put a padded cow catcher on the front to loft pedestrians harmlessly over the top of the vehicle.
Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Score:3)
If I'm not mistaken, there was a SuperBus in there as well that did 300km/h
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And, unlike your mustang, you can share the ride with more than 4 smelly passengers.
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If you delete the rear seat that should make room for an additional two passengers, if you stack them right.
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On the other hand, it most likely handles better than your Mustang. ;)
I had to... No, I really did.
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Uh Oh...must be one of those Camaro owners - Eternally jealous. :-)
A 300mph bus? (Score:2)
A bus with no storage space (Score:2, Informative)
For those times when you want to go somewhere, but you don't want to take anything with you or bring anything back.
In other words, fine for going from your hotel to your business meeting, but that's about it. Like a limo without the privacy and quiet. I can't imagine a use for this that would justify dedicated 200km/h lanes.
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For those times when you want to go somewhere, but you don't want to take anything with you or bring anything back.
In other words, fine for going from your hotel to your business meeting, but that's about it. Like a limo without the privacy and quiet. I can't imagine a use for this that would justify dedicated 200km/h lanes.
I'm not a sports fan, but this sounds ideal for regional sports "away games". Faster than a plane because of no security theater, while fast enough to get to The Big Game in a reasonable amount of time.
For example the closest pro football team is a good 2 hours away at 75 MPH, but using that 2 hour criteria suddenly there's at least 4, maybe 5 within range?
Sports is pretty much just an excuse for excessive drinking, and I imagine the motion sickness would be worse at 300 KMH than 90 KMH so that might get a
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Three words: Elk, Deer, and Moose.
The Onion thought of it already (Score:2)
http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-replaces-costly-highspeed-rail-plan-with-hig,18473/ [theonion.com]
Tonight on Top Gear! (Score:2)
Richard wears a hat!
And I build the fastest bus...........in the world.
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If it were a food ...... it'd be corn on the cob.
Ok... (Score:3)
Ok, so it's not really designed for mass public transportation, but it looks like it shows some concepts which could be easily applied to mass-transit, long-distance buses.
Does anyone else think that self-driving, high-speed buses like that would eliminate the need for high-speed rail? With billions about to be spent on technology from the 1800's, it seems like there are other options which are much better suited to fulfilling America's transportation needs.
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Any subsequent posts that denounce the cost of the California HSR deserve to be modded off-topic, because that'll degenerate into a total flame war.
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Metal wheels on metal rail have significantly lower rolling resistance than rubber tires on asphalt or concrete, though. And, the infrastructure for rail is better suited to providing electricity to a train (partially because there's already metal to metal contact) than the infrastructure for roads.
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Well polyurethane 'tweels' are in development which should improve the rolling resistance(cuts it 'by half' in one article from 2005).
The infrastructure, and more importantly land rights, for roads already exist, vs the tremendous cost and hassle of laying new rail lines.
Buses can adapt to changing transportation needs quickly, unlike rail lines which take years(or decades).
Natural gas is cheap and plentiful. Is electricity the only option? I don't think so. I'd bet that future battery technology along w
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Buses can adapt to changing transportation needs quickly,
Privately owned / rented bus / school bus, yes. Public, Heck no. Pay attention to your local paper, you'll get 50 bureaucrats and 25 elected officials debating for hours and fighting with the mayor about exactly where to place the bus stop relative to the new condo development. That's before the lawsuit gets filed by the condo developer and it all drags on. And every two horse suburb wants to set up their own service with their own schedule and damn everyone else who doesn't want to follow their transfe
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Finally self driving trains are technologically a bit less complicated than self driving cars.
I'm surprised no one has started outsourcing train/car/taxi driving to India. Well, I've seen the traffic in India... But the point I'm making is you could have any odd number of people cooperatively drive the vehicle. Since we're destroying the middle class intentionally we'll have nothing but ultra rich and ultra poor so we don't need self driving buses if the only thing on the road is ultra-luxury limos and fo
Re:Ok... (Score:4, Interesting)
Metal wheels on rail also makes for generally lousy acceleration and braking, which in turn leads to complicated safety systems and long gaps between trains. Building a road for this ought to be a lot cheaper than electric high speed rail.
Of course that is no use if the bus is extremely expensive. Current trains can easily cost USD 50,000 per seat, so if it can get anywhere near that figure it is a win. Operating costs may be higher, at least until it is made driverless.
The big question is whether people will use it. Right now there is a "rail effect" where putting in a rail service with exactly the same characteristics as a bus service will attract perhaps a third more passengers. Even if it isn't faster or more reliable. Missing out on 1/4th of the passengers could easily kill off this idea.
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If I had my choice I would want all airplanes to be 2x2. No middle seats is my dream because I'm always next to someone spilling over their armrest.
The only problem with air travel is the TSA. In the old days you could just show up 20 minutes before a flight and walk through a metal detector set to only detect handguns 9mm or larger and be on your way. These days it's easier to drive unless nature put an ocean in your way.
Air travel is the best method of long distance travel because there is a network effec
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Yeah flying in the US is a bit of a pain these days I have to admit (I visit the US regularly so do know what you mean).
I'm thankful at home (Australia) things are still pretty quick and easy, for domestic flights at least. 20 minutes is pushing it, but I usually turn up only 30-40 minutes before domestic flights here in Australia and have never missed one (if you're checking bags, 30 minutes before departure is the cutoff, but it's only 15 minutes before if you are only taking carry-on luggage).
The reasons
Re:Ok... (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone else think that self-driving, high-speed buses like that would eliminate the need for high-speed rail?
Well, sure!
... Except, according to TU Delft's website, [superbusproject.com] the feasibility of their 'superbus' is dependent on...
Wait for it...
Dedicated roadways! You know, like the ones trains run on, sans rails. So, not all that different after all (light rail actually wins out on this one, thanks to the ability to actually attach the vehicle to the infrastructure...)
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Yeah but that requirement is obviously driven by the presence of human-piloted vehicles on the roadways.
In 25 years, do you think you'll be able to drive your own car anymore? I doubt it. Autonomous vehicles are coming, and I suspect that in a quarter century we'll be regulating human-operated vehicles off public roads.
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Yeah but that requirement is obviously driven by the presence of human-piloted vehicles on the roadways.
Would be nice if you had reference what you mean by "that requirement"... Assuming you mean it in reference to dedicated roadways, it's not 'human-piloted' that's the issue, so much as the sheer volume of traffic. 250 million cars on the road is 250 million cars on the road, regardless of who's controlling them.
On top of that, thanks to our continuing foray into the abject failure that is trickle-down economics (/rant), people are hanging on their cars for much, much longer... [time.com] If the trend continues, 25
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The article you quoted blames better cars, not "trickle-down" economics for the "problem" you mention.
I'm not actually sure why you think that raising taxes (presumably on the rich) would affect how long anyone keeps their cars, though.
Personally, I drive them to a couple hundred thousand miles and change before I sell one. But
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I know, right? Trickle-down never works... which is why my in-laws who live below the poverty line had access to free, advanced medical care and drive a second-hand prius... oh and HDTVs... cell phones... all the food they can eat... yeah.. never works.
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Dedicated roadways! You know, like the ones trains run on, sans rails. So, not all that different after all (light rail actually wins out on this one, thanks to the ability to actually attach the vehicle to the infrastructure...)
Actually, the bus only needs dedicated roadways for high-speed sections. It can merge into normal traffic (or existing bus lanes) in cities.
Part of the concept is that the bus has no fixed route. This is impossible with a rail vehicle.
As for attaching the vehicle to the infrastructure: not really. A train is constrained in only one dimension, by flanges that are a couple of cm high. A roadway with guard rails on either side offers more protection.
The Superbus is a concept that might work in areas where a hi
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Dedicated roadways! You know, like the ones trains run on, sans rails. So, not all that different after all (light rail actually wins out on this one, thanks to the ability to actually attach the vehicle to the infrastructure...)
Actually, the bus only needs dedicated roadways for high-speed sections. It can merge into normal traffic (or existing bus lanes) in cities. Part of the concept is that the bus has no fixed route. This is impossible with a rail vehicle.
Yea, I know the CGI videos on their website show the lenghty beast easily slipping in and out of tight city streets with zero regard to physics, but I find the idea highly unrealistic. Ever see a stretch limo attempt to navigate a roundabout? Funny to watch, nigh impossible if you're the driver.
Here's another flaw in the plan: The concept is for more of an up-scale, private limo service than a traditional bus, right? Okay, so we know the only people riding will be the well off - the question becomes, who p
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With vehicles moving at 300 km/h on it, you're going to need a bit more segregation than a painted line, if only to keep other traffic from being sucked into the wake of the "super bus."
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It will work great as long as the dedicated high speed road provides sufficient grip to turn corners (however slight) at those speeds. It's not a coincidence that this system is intended to (possibly) be launched in a desert country with no winter and no rain to speak of.
I think the future of cross country bus travel is going to be self-driving buses that travel at the same speeds as today, but with lower per mile costs. The buses will probably have 3-abreast seating and more legroom at roughly the same tic
Seems like an interesting idea (Score:2)
With all of these 21st century ultra-highspeed rail systems, would an approach like this with dedicated tracks or roads work better?
The bad news (Score:2)
It still smells like pee and has uncomfortable seats.
Yet another "supercar". (Score:3)
OK, somebody built a stretch-limo electric supercar. Those are fun, but not too useful. A stretch-limo version of a Ferrari has been built.
The dual rear axles steer, so the turning circle is reasonable. (Many tour buses have that feature.) The limited ground clearance is going to be a problem on a long vehicle. It would have trouble with many driveways and all speed bumps. They should have put in a suspension that allows lifting the vehicle when necessary.
The demo vehicle has lead-acid batteries and limited range. The designer talks about going to a more advanced battery technology. They also talk about battery swapping, but they'd need a network of battery-swap stations sized for this thing.
Intercity (Score:2)
The limited ground clearance is going to be a problem on a long vehicle. It would have trouble with many driveways and all speed bumps. They should have put in a suspension that allows lifting the vehicle when necessary.
Given the expected top range (~200km) and the planned top speed (up to 300km/h) I think that this system, if it sees deployment, would be better suited for inter-city travel, rather than intra-city.
Thus it needs less emphasis on being able to drive inside a city and its various problems (speed bumps, etc.), and more emphasis in being able to travel on the high-way between cities.
The demo vehicle has lead-acid batteries and limited range. The designer talks about going to a more advanced battery technology. They also talk about battery swapping, but they'd need a network of battery-swap stations sized for this thing.
Well, you're also going to need a network of bus stations anyway (one in each city along the route, prefeabily located not too far
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If you have to upgrade infrastructure anyways then there's got to be a better way to do it from top to bottom then a stretch-limo Lamborghini look-a-like
Is there? You need it to be light per-passenger because you don't have low rolling resistance of rail, so you can't afford the waste of floor space in trains (aisles etc.). You need it to be stable because you don't have the secure catch offered by rail, so it needs to be quite low and can't look like a bus.
Hopeless project (Score:2)
I probably know a little bit more about this thing than most and most of it is not good. Usually when trying something new, you'd expect people to try and prove the concept before doing anything really expensive. Here it was the other way around. Most of the effort was put into making a flashy prototype with all the bells and whistles in place. Really, worrying about where to mount the LCD displays? The result is a machine that incredibly expensive with no chance of commercialisation because litterally ever
Speed is irrelevant (Score:5, Interesting)
The speed of mass transit solutions is often irrelevant unless you're talking about ~300 mile trips where High Speed Rail becomes competitive with air travel. A much bigger factor is frequency. If you have to wait 15 minutes at a stop rather than 30 minutes then that shaves a considerable amount of time off your journey without resorting to unsafe velocities. When you see a tram with an aerodynamic front puttering along the street at 20MPH then you know that the aero front was all for show and had more to do with securing funding than actually improving performance. I suspect that the advertised top speed of this 'bus' has more to do with getting publicity and investor attention than anything that's likely to see service. Even on a German autobahn I wouldn't want to be sitting on a bus that goes faster than 70MPH.
That said, journey time alone is not the only factor in mass transit. Comfort and convenience are a big deal. I know I'd rather have a nap or read a book or get some work done than have to focus on driving.
Some of the routing ideas mentioned in the project's website are worth a closer look. Some interesting concepts in there.
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When you see a tram with an aerodynamic front puttering along the street at 20MPH then you know that the aero front was all for show
Nope. There is a reason for that smooth, sloped nose. Idaho Stops [wordspy.com].
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When you see a tram with an aerodynamic front puttering along the street at 20MPH then you know that the aero front was all for show
Nope. There is a reason for that smooth, sloped nose. Idaho Stops [wordspy.com].
Huh? What's that got to do with the price of fish?
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The speed of mass transit solutions is often irrelevant unless you're talking about ~300 mile trips where High Speed Rail becomes competitive with air travel.
Not long ago Transport for London were advertising that on the Victoria Line "the new [signalling] system will be fully in use by the end of 2012, allowing up to 33 trains per hour instead of 27. This in combination with the new, faster trains will increase the line's capacity overall by 21%" (from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], though the upgrade is now complete).
If I've calculated that correctly, that means 12 seconds less waiting time on average, plus a faster journey. I think each train can carry ~1400 people (1200 standi
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That touches on the biggest liability: drivers. If something like this became commonplace would you want someone with the skill of your average bus driver zipping along at 120mph holding your life in their hands?
I smell another "Speed" movie... (Score:3)
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I have a idea let push the bus to 250MPH and drain the batterys so the bomb has no power to fire.
Dumb. (Score:2)
I like electric vehicles a lot. I think they have a lot of potential. But this is just dumb.
I eagerly await ... (Score:2)
Looks like a great transport from LA to Vegas (Score:3)
The world's fastest limo! At that kind of speed, it might be the fastest way from LA to Las Vegas, if you count all the airport security, baggage, etc.
This is the school bus that Bruce Wayne used to ride.
Does it come with a spare tire? (Score:4, Insightful)
I found the limitations a bit much:
200km range... or about 124 miles. Doesn't even get you from San Francisco to LA. Even if it only takes you 30minutes to get there, you're only saving about an hour. And this would required dedicated infrastructure/roads. Not exactly easy given that our highways are already crowded.
Does it come with a spare? I realize that Greyhound buses have the same problem, but those buses a) carry many more people per trip and b) the company has a much better infrastructure for dealing with broken down buses. Plus the buses have no problems going over curbs, parking lot entrances etc..
Where do you store luggage? Do you hold your bags on your lap?
Looks like a stretch Ferrari. Interesting yes, practical no.
Have I heard of Superbus? (Score:3)
Already Been Done (Score:2)
Been in planning for awhile in the US: http://www.theonion.com/video/obama-replaces-costly-highspeed-rail-plan-with-hig,18473/ [theonion.com]
(and yes, I know it's a spoof)
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300kph? Nice! But... (Score:2)
at what speed do buses start getting seatbelts?
I've seen this somewhere before... (Score:2)
Stockard Channing (Score:2)
As long as Stockard Channing is aboard, I'll be there.
RAISE THE FLAGS OF ALL NATIONS!
Top Gear (Score:2)
Am I the only one that wants to see the Stig take that thing through the hammerhead?
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Significant digits, motherfucker! Do you know them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures [wikipedia.org]
do you?
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From personal experience the best way to use a bus is to drive from drinking establishment to drinking establishment, and those are few and far between in the kingdom of S.A. .. at least officially. Now in Germany where the small villages are spaced roughly 10 kilotons apart, we could go pub hopping almost faster than a bathroom break at 300 KPH.
Maybe sightseeing tours, where you can go from vegas to the hoover dam in minutes?
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I didn't think Germany measured distances in small nukes also.
Old .mil saying I heard a long time ago. There's a lot of variations but they all rely on you wanna be at least a KM away per KT at least for small values of KT. Once you get up to 100 or so the linear scaling breaks down pretty badly. Or another way to put it is if there's a grid of cities 10 KM apart you're wasting valuable fissionables if you hit each with more than 10 KT or so since that would be about the right value to relatively evenly toast an area. Dropping multiple 9 MT on a 10KM grid would be