Poll Finds Americans Think the TSA Is 'Doing a Good Job' 523
OverTheGeicoE writes "Why is it that airport security never seems to change in the United States? Perhaps it's because most Americans think the TSA is doing a 'good job,' according to a surprise Gallup poll, allegedly commissioned by no one but the kind editors at Gallup. The poll found that 54% of Americans believe the TSA is doing a good or excellent job, and that 57% have a good or excellent opinion of the agency. So why all the criticism? According to the article, criticism of the TSA comes primarily from 'Internet sites, where reporting standards are generally not at the same level as newspapers, where reporters are taught to consider what is told to them with skepticism and to seek responses to charges.' Furthermore, 'the TSA is put into a difficult situation when such charges are posted with little or no fact checking by reporters.' Other sources, of course, have different interpretations of Gallup's results, including questions about whether the poll was biased. If Americans secretly do love the TSA, that could explain why the recent whitehouse.gov petition failed to gather enough signatures for a 'response.' In fact, you'll find so little information about the petition remains on whitehouse.gov that you'll wonder if my link is correct. And these are not the droids you're looking for. Move along."
Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the people either don't travel by air, or travel very infrequently. Those of us who are road warriors are vastly more likely to hate the TSA with vehemence.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Funny)
So you're saying TSA don't do a good job?
Then tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into recently. Name one!
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
..as a proportion of such incidents in countries without that kind of security theater?
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
How many terrorists has the TSA caught?
If the number is large, then your question is relevant. Otherwise they are the magic rock that keeps the tigers away.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Funny)
How many terrorists has the TSA caught?
If the number is large, then your question is relevant. Otherwise they are the magic rock that keeps the tigers away.
Act now and with every tiger repelling Magic Rock, get a Magic Sling that Slays Giants!
But wait there's more!
Sign up within the next election year, and We'll throw in a 2000 year old instruction manual that also contains the secret to Eternal* Life!
*Additional restrictions apply, offer not valid in the states of New England, the West Coast, or Sanity.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
...We'll throw in a 2000 year old instruction manual...
TL;DR I got the Cliff Notes [wordpress.com]
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
There have been several that were known to be terrorists who, under a sting operation, the TSA were waiting for.
But there has not been a SINGLE confirmed terrorist that the TSA did not know was a terrorist the day before they showed up, that the TSA caught.
Of course, the TSA is a relatively new agency.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
There have been several that were known to be terrorists who, under a sting operation, the TSA were waiting for.
I think you're thinking of the FBI [rollingstone.com].
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Now ask how many times TSA has had to change their procedures after someone tried to blow up their shoes/underwear/water bottles...
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There are cheaper and more effective methods of terrorizing the masses now.
I object! The Department of Homeland Security is definitely NOT cheap.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
You think the creation of the TSA is the only thing that has changed? What about increased cockpit security or the willingness of citizens to fight back? You seem to be assuming that it's all because of the TSA, but the other things that have changed seem to be vastly more effective than simply molesting people airports.
But even if they were effective, I believe they must be opposed. Violating people's privacy and freedoms for safety is not acceptable to me.
EARLY-LIFE MIND CONTROL WORKS! (Score:5, Insightful)
Interestingly, younger Americans âoehave significantly more positive opinions of the TSA than those who are older,â Gallup said, noting that 67% of people between 18 and 29 rate the agency as excellent or good.
"And that," put in the Director sententiously, "that is the secret of happiness and virtue - liking what you've got to do. All conditioning aims at that: making people like their inescapable social destiny."
-- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 1
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
Pay attention on the next long flight. At some point the pilots will need a stretch and a piss. The cabin crew will make some announcement that the forward lav is closed and to use the aft lav. A stewardess will block the aisles to the forward lav with a drink cart and essentially stand guard. Then you'll see the pilots come out for a tinkle one at a time.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
So you're saying TSA don't do a good job? Then tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into recently. Name one!
Oh no the TSA has done an excellent job. Mind, their job has very little to do with terrorists or safety, and everything to do with making Americans feel safe (with a nice side order of funneling money to certain congress/senatorial districts), and they have done a quite good job at that. After all, very few people want a government that looks like it isn't doing anything (Democrat or Republican), no matter what it actually should be, or is, doing.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the TSA's job is to make Americans think they should feel safe, while actually making them feel less safe (by making sure they are aware of the 'danger'), thereby justifying the government to spend more money on safety against terrorists.
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The TSA always gets nervous when they see me about to enter the scanner holding a permitted object in my hand? They have told me I should not feel safe in the security area.
The object in question is an emergency asthma inhaler. The TSA panics completely when someone has an asthma attack in the security area.
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their job has very little to do with terrorists or safety, and everything to do with making Americans feel safe.
If they're supposed to make people feel safe then why do they keep stealing their laptops/phones/cameras/etc.
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It's mostly in scanner money.
Remember the explosive residue puffer-sniffers? Their procurement cost tens of millions of dollars. They sat in warehouses for a couple of years, then when they were set up and sanity tested they didn't work very well. When field tested they turned out to give false positives for over 50% of clean subjects, and gave false negatives sometimes as well.
In the end the TSA would have spent less money and had a more effective tool by just flipping a coin as people walked through th
How Many Terrorists Have They Caught? (Score:4, Informative)
You think that they are doing a good job? Many people beg to differ:
Adam Savage from Mythbusters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqoiifBZD4E
Chidren in Wheelchairs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNO-AzPxS4U
Molested Women: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwvcpS5iLjI
Lactating Mothers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwvcpS5iLjI
Drug Dealers: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/26/news/la-trb-tsa-drugs-20120426
TSA Agents: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgZZeBpZAnM
The TSA Itself: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-01-28/us/tsa.bombtest_1_airport-screeners-airport-security-fake-bombs?_s=PM:US
Exactly how many "Shoe Bombers", "Underwear Bombers","Chemical Terrorists", and "TSA Screeners" have they caught?
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the point is, the Israelis are (probably quite justifiably) rather paranoid, so they're an extreme case. So if they, of all people, think the TSA is a joke, then they really are a joke. If anyone is going to go to extremes for anti-terrorism security, it's the Israelis, so if you're doing something to avoid terrorism that the Israelis aren't doing, then you're going too far.
Re:Real reason (Score:4, Insightful)
Everyone has bomb shelters in Israel because they have enemy forces who are a very short distance away willing and able to lob bombs at them. When you live in this situation, having access to a bomb shelter is a fact of life.
We're not talking about copying everything the Israelis do in their day-to-day life, but looking at their airport security model should help us fashion a more effective TSA than the "What Lobbyist Has Paid A Congressman To Buy Machines For The TSA Now" method or the "Change Procedures To Look Like You Have Countered The Latest Terrorist Tactic" method (e.g. taking off shoes after the shoe bomber strikes).
Re: (Score:3)
Would you accept a two state solution...
That's accepting that the people squatting in the West Bank & Gaza are actually anything other than random people (and now their descendants) that just happened to be squatting in the area in 1948.
There are no "Palestinians" and there's never been a nation called "Palestine". These poor bastards are nothing but cat's paws being used by the Arab nations as another way to attack Israel. The Arab nations could have and could still offer them refuge, but they didn't and won't, as the "Palestinians" are far
Re:Real reason (Score:4, Insightful)
So you're saying TSA don't do a good job?
No, he was saying the TSA doesn't do a good job.
Then tell me how many buildings terrorists have flown airplanes into recently. Name one!
Did you quit beating your wife today?
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Re: (Score:3)
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The security issues of 9/11 were solved on 9/11 when passengers discovered that hijackers wouldn't always be taking them to the tropics and giving them an interesting story to tell.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Funny)
Pollsters always seem to be sampling or over sampling the wrong people.
They evidently polled AMTrak passengers for this one.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
Other way around. If my experience chatting with Amtrak passengers is any indication, about 80% of them are there because of the TSA, or at least agreed with me that they're a bunch of bozos on a power trip.
No, in reality, the people who like the TSA tend to be the people who fly, but infrequently. The people who fly frequently are fed up with it and wouldn't give them a good score even if what they are doing were useful. The people who don't fly, or fly infrequently, have very little to go on, and so they make the best call based on their limited information coupled with their limited understanding of what actually makes people safe.
That last part is key. You see, for people who do not actually understand security—your typical person, as opposed to those of us here on Slashdot, most of whom have to maintain at least some understanding of security principles as part of our jobs—anything you do under the guise of security makes them feel like you're doing a good job.
That's why if you ask your average person what they think of a screen where a company is asking you security questions, they'll tell you that because the company wants more information about you, it must mean the company is serious about security. If you ask a security researcher what they think of the screen, they'll immediately tell you that the security questions almost always weaken security, not strengthen it.
Public opinion is useless for this sort of thing. You want useful information about how good a job the TSA is doing, ask security researchers. You want information about how mad the public is, ask a random sampling of air travelers, and only air travelers. Asking the public as a whole is a worthless metric. It's like asking the public, "Does this guy look like a murderer?" without presenting any of the facts of the case. It's a great way of seeing how much the general public is paying attention and how much their confirmation bias gets in the way of them learning new information, but not much else apart from psychology research. Heck, all you really have to do is show them a picture, and you'll get answers that are heavily skewed towards yes [slashdot.org].
Real reason is it depends on how you phrase it (Score:5, Insightful)
The article has a significant bias that's expressed in the spin it puts on the result. Data showing 54% of Americans think the TSA does a "good or excellent job" is not "Americans secretly do love the TSA." It could just as accurately be summarized "Nearly half of Americans think TSA is not doing a good job."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The article IS crap. First off because what you just said, but it also compares apples with wallnuts. Websites that post news, journalists that report all TSA's "good job" state facts, if they weren't, then we'd see all kinds of trials in addition to all this. What THIS article states, is the "impression" the citizens have of TSA. You see, he's comparing reality with imagination.
One other thing that irks me is that in the article (yes, I read it a little) is that approval from the younger segment is even hi
Re:Real reason is it depends on how you phrase it (Score:5, Insightful)
What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces.
Re:Real reason is it depends on how you phrase it (Score:5, Insightful)
But the problem, as I see it, is that if less than half the population doesn't see something as a problem, it's simply not going to be addressed in this political climate, especially when we have two very bad, and and very similar (to each other) parties in power. The only way unpopular stuff gets changed in this country any more is if a very large majority is pissed off about it. A significant minority is mad about something? Too bad. They're not enough to count at the polls.
Heck, let's look at this very issue. Are any candidates talking about it? The only one I've heard recently was Rand Paul, and he's just a senator from one (not terribly large) state, and doesn't really represent any party or group, and is kinda on the fringe. Romney isn't talking about it at all, and given the Republican party position (aside from Rand of course, who with his father basically disagree with the other Republicans on nearly everything), is likely to be a big proponent of TSA, despite his lame claims of being in favor of "small government". And Obama certainly isn't talking about it, since all the recent TSA abuses have been under his authority. So it's not like you're going to be able to elect someone who'll make a change. If you tell Obama you don't like how the TSA is operating, he'll just laugh in your face and say "what are you going to do, vote for Romney?"
Re:Real reason (Score:4, Informative)
I swore off air travel before the rape scans were ever considered. Being treated worse than cattle by the airlines was enough for me. There is absolutely nothing that could ever happen that would get me on an airplane again. The airlines can fuck off and die as far as I'm concerned.
Re:Real reason (Score:4, Interesting)
My biggest complaint about TSA is the vast amount of money spent on worthless scanners, and other theater. It smells like corruption.
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Take a boat.
Re:Not Applicable to all. (Score:4, Funny)
Personally, I'd refuse to take a job that required air travel. No salary is worth that. I will flip burgers for a living before I step foot on a plane ever again. Not one penny of mine will ever go to the scum who run the airlines. I hope they all die in some sort of fiery explosion.
Re:Not Applicable to all. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope. I am not independently wealthy, and I live up to my ideals just fine. You can live a thoroughly fulfilled life without boarding a plane.
Re:Not Applicable to all. (Score:5, Informative)
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I live in Lebanon, KS, you insensitive bastard!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_center_of_the_contiguous_United_States [wikipedia.org]
Re:Not Applicable to all. (Score:4, Insightful)
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You should cross the border with me. Guns, swarms of agents, handcuffs, nervous Michael Jackson jokes, the whole bit.
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That was my thought. 20% of Americans used air travel for business, and 48% have used air travel for leisure. That is for an entire year and doesn't say how many times. If you are like me, I only go for work maybe once a year. I am too cheap to fly for shits and grins. So in that once a year I go, I think the TSA bit has been different every time I went through. My general impression is it's a grossly bloated and mostly ineffective federal agency. Security theater so to speak. It plays well with the rubes a
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the real reason is because people don't watch the news (except NBC, etc which pretends everything is just fine & dandy). People are often shocked when I show them video or stories about elderly persons being stripped, or tackled by TSA, or sexually groped.
Of course there's also the opposite reaction: People who read a story about a cop killing a person while he's sitting at home watching TV and they say, "The cops were just doing their job." They probably have the same dumbass view of the TSA..... where basically the cops/security agents can do no wrong. Immunity.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike you, for whom the threat of a jackboot on your neck for trying to go about your business as a free citizen has become comfortable.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
We've reached the point where you need to consent to being irradiated or molested in order to get onto an airplane. If you don't think we already live in a dystopian novel you simply have no clue.
Quietly putting up with unecessary nonsense does make you a sheep. Although I suspect you don't have any actual experience regarding the subject at hand.
It's easy to be dismissive when you aren't an aggrieved party.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Interesting)
No, but I do remember (not that long ago mind you), that going to the airport was simple, not a hassle and not unpleasant.
I remember the whole family going to the gates to see someone off, or waiting there for them when they got off the plane.
I remember not having to go through a potentially dangerous (with multiple exposures) irradiating device....and I remember even before the metal detectors, although I don't mind those, they're quite non-intrusive.
But yes, I remember not that long ago back, when you didn't have potential to be groped by a stranger, not having to take your fucking shoes off....etc. And for what? Tests of these measure have shown they aren't really effective, things are snuck on all the time in those tests.
Why not do something simple that is effective...and not really intrusive?
Why not go for simple metal detectors...and bomb sniffing dogs you walk past....and then, you don't have to search everyone, you can keep your fucking shoes on....and only secondarily search anyone that beeps the detector or sets off a dog response.
I remember (not that long ago), about the only time you worried about a kid crying, was on the plane when the pressure would make their ears pop...not from some rubber gloved TSA agent feeling them up on their way to the gate....
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
I've traveled a fair amount and have had no issues with the TSA.
Well, certain individuals like to be used for sex in prison, but that doesn't mean raping everyone else is OK.
The TSA does not increase security. They are so busy looking for "oversize" 4oz bottles of shampoo that commonly show up that they miss guns that rarely show up. They are so busy patting down grandmas and children there is no time to evaluate those that may pose a threat.
It is OK to admit that the TSA makes you feel better because they are "doing something". However, it is completely false to believe they are doing anything useful.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Insightful)
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Very white dirty blonde with freckles actually. But apparently I have the same (extremely common) name as a black international badass and US border goons panic before they get far enough in the file to see the physical description. I don't think the TSA even gets the physical description, just the name.
On the one hand it's nice to see that US security agencies don't profile entirely by race. On the other hand, it's a bit scary that they waste so much time and effort on such obvious false positives. On
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If it didn't get you in actual trouble I'd suggest you subtly imply to the little old ladies that you're getting annoyed at having to kill all the security goons that get in your way.
Re:Real reason (Score:5, Informative)
1) The wands and metal detectors did not irradiate you.
2) You did not have to undress at all.
3) You were never grouped.
4) Your "shaving kit" could include after shave.
5) You could bring a beverage.
6) You could arrive at the airport 15 minutes before departure and still make your flight.
advertisement (Score:5, Informative)
how do you prove to potential clients that you can skew every public opinion survey?
release one saying TSA is loved!
Re:advertisement (Score:5, Funny)
Sample question from the TSA survey:
Do you think the TSA is:
a) Doing an excellent job
b) Doing a great job
c) The best thing EVAR!
d) The reason I hate America, children, and puppies.
Re:advertisement (Score:5, Insightful)
a. they're doing a good job
b. they're not doing a good job so when they see people vote for this option, they will step up their security to even more ridiculous levels
Seriously, I don't think it's outrageous to say that people realistically thought if they voted no, security would get more intrusive
Wrong question (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that they're not doing a "good job"--most interactions with them are fine. It's that they're doing the wrong job.
There are enough horror stories that they get a bad rap, sure. But the bigger point is that they are doing a job that it is stupid for us to be paying for. It inconveniences every traveller in the US and it does not make us significantly safer. Secure the cockpit doors and stop worrying about bombs--if you secure the cockpit doors, all they can do is blow up the plane, and they can blow up a bus so it's a ridiculous waste of money and time to be providing absurd security.
9/11 was (1) an attack that could only work once and (2) about flying the planes. Take away the ability to fly the planes, and the plane is no longer a particularly useful terror target, it's just a target.
Don't get me wrong--I'm happy that there are people working to make terrorist attacks on the US harder. I just don't believe that the TSA is a useful way to spend those resources.
Re:Wrong question (Score:4, Insightful)
Unless Joe Terrorist steals a business jet somehow, he's not going to kill many people flying a typical Cessna 172 into a sporting event. Sure, it'll be world news and all, but the death toll really won't be very high; terrorists don't want to go to all that trouble just to kill a dozen or two people at the most. Just think about all the effort they have to put into it: they have to go to flight school and learn how to fly the thing in the first place (which is even worse if they try to steal a business jet, as those are much more complicated to fly), then they have to figure out where to steal one from and how, and time it so it happens when a major event is underway, and then avoid being shot down by F16s when the plane is reported stolen and the nearest airbase scrambles their fighters.
It'd much easier for them to just get some assault rifles and go to a mall on black friday and shoot hundreds of people, much like they did in Mumbai, India several years ago. Americans would be terrified of just going to the mall. Honestly, after the enormous success they had in Mumbai, I'm surprised they haven't done this here yet.
Actual Poll (Score:3)
Do you think the TSA is:
a) Doing an excellent job
b) I wish to be put on a "no fly" list
c) I request to be strip "searched" by Manny.
d) I invite the FBI visit my house.
e) b, c, and d.
Proof the system works! (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course they do. That's the whole point of security theatre:
Security theater: term that describes security countermeasures intended to provide the feeling of improved security while doing little or nothing to actually improve security. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater [wikipedia.org]
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and tsa thinks that somewhat is good when interpreting the results.
and polled mostly people who hadn't flown and just miniscule amount of people who could compare with other countries..
not that surprising to me (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think it requires assuming the poll was biased or that "internet sites" are posting un-vetted charges. A simpler explanation is that, even if the TSA does suck, most Americans either don't know or don't care. In particular, a significant percentage of Americans don't fly regularly, and they tend to support whatever air-security measures some official claims are necessary. To them, something that sounds like security is good, and who cares if someone's inconvenienced, because it's not them anyway. For example, a 2010 poll [nytimes.com] found that x-ray scanners and new pat-down procedures were more popular among non-fliers:
Re:not that surprising to me (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, people like it when bad things happen to other people but not themselves.
Re:not that surprising to me (Score:5, Insightful)
No, people are INDIFFERENT to bad things happening to strangers far away.
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This is exactly the problem: too many people completely ignorant to "first they came..." situations.
... and we waited out
It reminds me of an unrelated, but applicable, quote I heard in a video from a National Geographic photographer...
On our drive out, my assistant spotted this big stork, with an eight-foot wingspan, that looked like it was trying poke a hole in a great egret
54% is LOW (Score:5, Insightful)
Fifty four percent is incredibly bad performance - it's a failure at a high school test.
What if I were to tell you that 55% of Americans think the IRS is doing a good job? It's certainly something I could believe - as the IRS audits less than 1% of Americans each year. Give something to compare it to. Otherwise, this is a puff article designed to make the TSA look good without any evidence WHATSOEVER.
Re:54% is LOW (Score:5, Insightful)
I traveled abroad for the first time recently to Japan. When I left for home, I didn't have to take off my shoes or my belt, didn't have to go through a full body scan, didn't have to be groped or fondled and generally humiliated. After we landed in LAX and I went through security again, I was standing around with a bunch of guys from my flight as we put on our belts and our shoes, generally redressing in the middle of a crowded airport terminal, and the one said to me "Welcome back to America." Indeed.
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No, not really. We didn't really have a 9/11-scale attack before 9/11. But then 9/11 happened. So the fact that we haven't seen another one yet doesn't mean that we won't.
The real increases to security have been secured cockpit doors and the willingness of citizens to fight back (among other things). The TSA is just an organization that violates people's freedom and privacy in exchange for a false sense of security.
I see nothing strange here (Score:5, Insightful)
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Actually, if you calculate the barycentre of the Earth-Oprah system....
HAHAHA! (Score:5, Funny)
'Internet sites, where reporting standards are generally not at the same level as newspapers, where reporters are taught to consider what is told to them with skepticism and to seek responses to charges.'
I haven't laughed so hard in months. Thank you, PR lackey, for brightening my day.
Let me tell you about my last encounter with TSA.. (Score:3, Interesting)
I accidentally left my sunglasses and jacket in one of those tubs that you put through the scanner last Christmas while rushing to a last minute flight after some genius wearing more chains than Mr. T snarled up the security queue for 30 minutes at a regional airport.
Upon returning a week later and checking in with TSA agents, I found out they had itemized and bagged my stuff and got both back to me in less than 15 minutes.
Not everywhere is Dulles.
Petitions (Score:5, Interesting)
The petition failed to gain enough signatures because everyone knows that they won't get a real response from the administration. Case in point, there was a petition that got 75,000 signatures (3 times the threshold) where the President was asked to explain why Cannabis should not be regulated by alcohol. The response was written by the Drug Czar, and failed to mention alcohol once.
This was the great hope for change we elected in 2008. This was what was supposed to be the most transparent administration in history. And he can't even answer a simple question about his policies honestly.
Re: (Score:3)
Exactly. At some point you pass out from alcohol poisoning, which serves to regulate your cannabis intake.
Doesn't surprise me at all (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at the comments below any newspaper article criticising the TSA. Filled with comments along the lines of "Stop whining about security, I don't care if I have to strip nekkid, as long as the evil ragheads don't blow up my airplane". No concept of relative cost vs risk, no realisation of the fact that this is all theatre, no understanding of the loss of liberties involved. Even the previous head of the TSA (Kip Hawley) by now says that most of the scanners etc are useless, but Joe Sixpack, he reckons the security will keep him alive.
TSA (Score:3)
I would like to see some evidence that the TSA is doing a horrible job and that the people who think otherwise are obviously deluded fools as the summary suggests.
Not saying that it's not, but I'm just a little bit suspicious that such hostility towards the TSA comes from the anecdotal evidence of few unnecessary searches of grannies and such and personal experiences of relatively minor inconvenience and not from a thorough and impartial analysis of the security procedures based on deep knowledge of what it takes to secure airports.
Re:TSA (Score:4, Informative)
I would like to see some evidence that the TSA is doing a horrible job
Easily done [go.com].
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I would like to see some evidence that the TSA is doing a horrible job
I'd personally say that there is no way for them to do a good job because I believe their job is evil to begin with. With increased cockpit security and the willingness of citizens to fight back, I honestly don't see why anyone would credit the TSA with stopping anything. Not that their performance matters, though.
personal experiences of relatively minor inconvenience
I don't think that things such as freedom or privacy are minor issues.
Seriously?!? (Score:3)
Duh! Obviously the font (Score:5, Funny)
Yesterday's article showed how it's done: Poll printed in Baskerville font!
TSA more frustrating than anything.... (Score:3, Interesting)
The inconsistency of their agents has to be the most annoying thing. In Dallas a few weeks ago they were uniformly polite and efficient. In Oklahoma City they tend to be pretty good as well. In Charlotte they like to pretend they are Gestapo agents and in In Fort Lauderdale they are crass and unobservant (had a new bottle of gel toothpaste in my carry-on that went unnoticed because they were too busy bitching about the phone charger and camera clumped together) in smaller airports they tend to fumble around a lot. I flew out of Washington National a few years ago with my 8 inch dive knife in my carry-on (by accident.)
I think TSA satisfaction would increase if the airlines hadn't turned the security checkpoint into a baggage checkpoint. The volume of luggage going through the system slows everything down and creates more hassle, which is communicated to the passengers. Flying is no longer a luxury in most cases, it's a necessity. As such the airlines really don't care about providing customer service, they only try to avoid liability. This touches everyone who participates in the system.
Breakdown by age? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd be very interested to see a breakdown in these poll results by age. I would not be at all surprised to see younger, more Internet-connected respondents have a more negative view of the TSA, while the Fox News generation (average viewer age 65 [hollywoodreporter.com], average age for Bill O'Reilly viewers 71 [huffingtonpost.com]) tends toward a more positive view. We see the same thing with numerous other issues where pretty much everyone on sites like Slashdot agrees, but the actual politics seem to be lagging behind. For instance, 50% of Americans now favor legalizing marijuana [gallup.com] according to recent Gallup Polls, but while 62% of people in the 18-29 age bracket are in favor, only 31% of senior citizens do. And those seniors vote at a MUCH higher rate than young people. This is why issues relevant to old people are discussed endlessly, while issues important to the young are simply ignored. It's why college funding keeps getting cut every year while Medicare and Social Security remain untouchable.
Get out there and vote this November! Even if it's just for the lesser of two evils, vote anyway. The only way this imbalance will be fixed is if young people start voting at the same rate as older Americans.
Intimidation (Score:4, Informative)
"I've been asked to respond to this post in order to clarify misunderstandings that some people may have.
The TSA properly exempted itself from the requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act and the Sunshine Act. The TSA granted itself the exemption for valid reasons that must remain classified for National Security reasons, so you'll have to trust us on that.
The TSA also had a valid grounds for respectfully refusing to comply with both court orders. The reasons are also classified for National Security reasons, so again you'll have to trust us the refusal was appropriate and necessary. But I can tell you that the decision was based on thorough analysis of the latest robust intelligence pertaining to the current threat environment.
In both cases, TSA Counsel determined that any form of notice and comment rulemaking regarding the deployment of AIT would be detrimental to National Security, based on the classified determinations I referenced above. TSA Counsel prepared a classified memorandum exempting the agency from notice and comment requirements. TSA Counsel believes that the National Security determinations set forth in the classified memorandum give the TSA full authority to disregard any court orders requiring notice and comment rulemaking.
You are, of course, free to sign the petition. But it will have no more effect than the lawsuit or the court order. And do be aware that pursuant to classified TSA procedures, any names on the petition will be forwarded to the Terrorist Screening Center for possible inclusion on appropriate watch lists.
Thank you for allowing me to address your concerns about this matter."
Posted by: Blogger Bob at August 2, 2012 6:39 PM
Perhaps the poll was conducted with a stick. But then again, we are a libidinous culture.
Re: (Score:2)
WTF.
It's 'better than average' - It's the Lake Woebegon way.....
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That's good or excellent job. It'd be like 54% of a class getting an A or B. Of course, if the other 46% gets an F, then it's bad. However, if the other 46% is C's, then it's pretty decent.
Re:54% is considered a good grade? (Score:4, Insightful)
I deposited a check recently. The next day, I was surveyed on my banking experience. They wanted to know how helpful the teller was at selling financial products not related to check depositing; whether she smiled, and so on. Each grade less than a 10 was followed up on-- as if her job depended on my unwillingness to cakk her stellar.
It's like ebay--anything less than a five star rating results in financial penalties.
Using that standard, 54% is a flunking grade.
Re:TSA does some good (Score:5, Interesting)
And I have a boxcutter, scissors and a screwdriver in my backpack right now. They are never detected by airport's scanners because my backpack has a nice carbon plastic compartment that reduces the contrast of items within it. I've been flying with them for several years through tens of TSA theater checkpoints by now. So I'm "better armed" than a 9/11 hijacker all without trying to do it specifically.
Re:TSA does some good (Score:5, Insightful)
"Slippery slope" is a pretty lame argument in the face of grannies in wheelchairs having their colostomy bags searched, and toddlers having their sippy cups taken away, and a thousand other stupid anecdotes we've all heard. The REAL problem with TSA isn't necessarily the screening itself, which could be done pretty inconspicuously, but the sheer ostentation of going through a glacially slow-moving "security" checkpoint run by thugs and bullies.
Re:TSA does some good (Score:5, Insightful)
Why have would-be terrorists resorted to increasingly bizarre and ineffective weapons - the shoe bomb, underwear bomb, and chemical cocktail? If they thought they could, obviously they'd just bring some hand grenades, and you can be darn sure those would work every time.
A lot of TSA criticism comes from people who want stringent security for "those people" but not for "us" - meaning white people, grannies, etc. But if you think about it for a few seconds you know where that leads.
Personally I would scale back the TSA and the nekkid scans, but as a value tradeoff, knowing it would come at some cost to security.
And planes were routinely hijacked with "hand grenades" prior to 9/11??? The simple truth is that pre 9/11 security measures were more than adequate to prevent a hijacker from bringing guns or powerful, easy to use explosives on board a plane. What they could do (and did) was bring smallish cutting implements (e.g. box cutters).
The problem with 9/11 wasn't in what the hijackers brought on board, but that they changed the rules of airplane hijacking. Prior to 9/11, if your plane was hijacked, you cooperated. That was the best way to ensure that you would survive.
The 9/11 hijackers changed the rules, but the passengers couldn't know that. On one of the four flight the passengers did learn this, sadly too late to prevent the takeover of the plane, but they did prevent the hijackers from killing more people on the ground.
An attack like 9/11 could only ever work once. Now we have reinforced cockpit doors and passengers will not cooperate with hijackers. Any attempt to hijack a plane, without using firearms at a minimum, will be stopped by the passengers who will assume that the hijackers mean to crash the plane.
All this means that the myriad of additional security nonsense on the ground is almost entirely security theater. Initially, this was mostly a case of ass covering (something needs to be done, this is something, ergo this must be done) but lately (as with the 'porno' scanners) this seems driven by a desire to line the pockets of private enterprise with taxpayer money.
tl;dr It is possible to scale back the TSA without sacrificing actual security.
Re:TSA does some good (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got news for you, while you're busy pointing at the evil, evil right wing, the usual suspects you vote for are busy implementing the same or worse.
Time to get over this red-team/blue-team bullshit or you are part of the problem.
Re:TSA does some good (Score:5, Interesting)
Why have would-be terrorists resorted to increasingly bizarre and ineffective weapons - the shoe bomb, underwear bomb, and chemical cocktail?>
And none of those were caught by the TSA. They were caught by civilians.
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Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (Score:5, Funny)
Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now...
You Don't Invalidate Basic Rights (Score:5, Insightful)
With a popularity poll. A significant portion of that 54% of Americans, when read the Bill of Rights, believe you are describing an antithetical, Socialist manifesto.
How can you judge if the TSA is "doing a good job", if you are among the 44% of Americans who are unable to define the Bill of Rights? [thedailybeast.com]
I for one DO believe the TSA does a good job. That job is one of eroding fundamental protections of basic rights while enriching cronies.
Re:You Don't Invalidate Basic Rights (Score:5, Interesting)
-- "83 Percent of U.S. Adults Fail Test on Nation's Founding"
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/83-percent-of-us-adults-fail-test-on-nations-founding-783 [prnewswire.com]
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I'm not American so there is little reason for me to know much American History, much that I do know is gleaned from old Cowboy movies. I would hazard a guess most Americans probably have an idea who General Custer was and largely for the same reasons but maybe not, as there is far more choice of TV to watch on a Sunday afternoon these days.
I admit I had no love of "History" at school and neither do most people. Really all you are really saying is that most people have an Interest in contemporary culture, m
Re:You Don't Invalidate Basic Rights (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You Don't Invalidate Basic Rights (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder what percentage of that 54% have ever flown on an airline and more specifically since the TSA took over security?
Hard to decide whether to mod or post...
That's been my impression for quite a while now. If you fly with any regularity, the TSA looks like nothing more than security theater that just applies patch after patch every time someone is noticed to be trying to do something nefarious through one of their gaping security holes. I flew a lot both before and after sept 11, and have been either mid-trip or within a few days of a trip during a lot of the policy changes (e.g. only passengers past the security checkpoints, the 3 oz of fluid thing, underpants man, and more). They slap a patch on in reaction to an event, and while it looks like they're doing something, it really has no effect other than to increase cost and time involved, with no improvement in safety or security.
A while ago I came to the conclusion that all of this stuff is some sort of weird proxy for people's fear of flying. If we were really concerned about terrorists then public places would look a whole lot different than they do. The reason we don't have more terrorist attacks has nothing to do with all the TSA stuff and everything to do with there just not being very many terrorists.
Re:You Don't Invalidate Basic Rights (Score:4, Funny)
Given that 48% of those surveyed *had not flown in the preceeding 12 months* and they only got a 54% positive response rate...
Therefore 6% of air travelers actually approve of the TSA. Personally I still think this is high so I arbitrarily apply a +/- 5% rule to lower that to 1%...and then can claim "as much as 99% of people think the TSA is the the root of all evil"
Ok? Ok! Wait...Crap why am I some list that says I can't fly ever again? >.>
Re: (Score:3)
I dunno. What do you propose calling this "Tea Party" thing of yours, anyway?
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