Iran and North Korea Team Up To Fight State-Sponsored Malware 191
An anonymous reader writes, quoting the article: "At the start of this month, news broke that Iran and North Korea have strengthened their ties, specifically by signing a number of cooperation agreements on science and technology. The two states signed the pact on Saturday, declaring that it represented a united front against Western powers. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's Supreme Leader, told Kim Yong Nam, North Korea's ceremonial head of state, the two countries have common enemies and aligned goals. On Monday, security firm F-Secure weighed in on the discussion. The company believes Iran and North Korea may be interested in collaborating against government-sponsored malware attacks such as Duqu, Flame, and Stuxnet."
Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging? Any sort of broad-based sanction will likely lead to increased ties between people who can't do business anywhere else. National self interest is an older game than you seem to think.
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Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging?
'Cause that's what politicians and demagogues do.
Now you can blame your least favorite politician of the past 30 years for "allowing this to happen".
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Unintended, but hardly unforeseeable, so why would there be mudslinging?
'Cause that's what politicians and demagogues do.
Now you can blame your least favorite politician of the past 30 years for "allowing this to happen".
Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.
Wait a minute, it's been over 30 years since...? Aw frak...
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Perfect, I'm reading the same thing I'm thinking on /. I need to see a doctor.
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Just 30 years? I want to blame all of them at least back to Nixon.
A bit over 30, but I don't think you can reasonably go back beyond when they kicked our buddy the Shah out.
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Allowing what to happen? Fred Flintstone and Barny Rubble become partners in building weapons of mass destruction? Oh be still my heart. Anybody with an IQ above small single digits should be able to manipulate this situation all day long to hilarious situation-comedic effect. Think of it as "Laverne and Shirley" with fissionable materials... "One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Schlemiel, Shlemazel, Hasenpfefffer Incorpor BOOM!
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I can imagine the scene in Tehran when Iran's diplomats return to give the good news to the Supreme Obsessive Compulsive. In North Korea they found a country led by a man whose dad invented electricity and basketball. How can they fail when allied to such genius?
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Republicans will say Obama, some how caused North Korea and Iran to hop into bed, and forget to mention that they would of followed the exact same policies or done worse and got us into another unfunded pointless war in the middle east.
I'm not sure if there will be any mud slinging about this before the election as I doubt the republicans want to draw attention to foreign affairs after Romney's rather terrible overseas trip and the fact his ticket has no foreign policy experience at all but still I can see it happen.
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I'm not sure if there will be any mud slinging about this before the election as I doubt the republicans want to draw attention to foreign affairs after Romney's rather terrible overseas trip and the fact his ticket has no foreign policy experience at all but still I can see it happen.
I on the other hand hope there's lots of mudslinging. There's no more truth or objectivity in placid campaigns than enraged ones. And the latter have a lot more spirit and engagement to them. Politeness is vastly overrated in politics anyway.
And "Romney's rather terrible overseas trip"? Ignoring that that's an awfully weak talking point, how is that worse than the typical Obama overseas trip? At least, he hasn't tried to insult his hosts or murmured the exact same platitudes to numerous different host co
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I'm not sure how you managed it, but it appears that you went here when you should have gone here for information on the Republican platform. See? No baby eating or organ selling.
This platform seems a bit weak. When will America finally have a party whose members work to outlaw abortion, reduce access to contraception, deny gay marriage, and shoe-horn religion in to the science classroom?
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This platform seems a bit weak. When will America finally have a party whose members work to outlaw abortion, reduce access to contraception, deny gay marriage, and shoe-horn religion in to the science classroom?
Why don't you get busy then and let us know how it turns out? That mix won't really work for the Republicans since there doesn't seem to be any real interest in having the US government block access to contraception, only not have the Federal government pay for it, which it hasn't done much of anyway. There is practically nothing to deny in terms of so called "gay marriage" since same sex couples haven't ever been able to marry in the vast majority of the United States, and that is mainly a state level is
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So is fanatical hatred of foreign nations that don't share your ideology.
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing that was an unintended consequence of those malware programs. Unless there's an advantage I don't see with Iran and North Korea strengthening ties.
The military-industrial complex needs enemies. I'm on the edges of the "cybersecurity" business and its been apparent for years now that there is a huge push to play up the risks with respect to national security because there are Cosmos-level contracting dollars at stake (i.e. billions and billions). This sort of escalation perfectly feeds that narrative.
Stuxnet is going to pay huge dividends for the company that wrote it, not because of the success in Iran, but because of the massive funding for the coming "cyberwar" that stuxnet provoked - imaginary or otherwise.
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This sort of escalation perfectly feeds that narrative.
I'm afraid you're right. The call to war just might be more well received by the voters now. Exactly what the doctor ordered. It won't be limited to 'cyber' either. "This is WAR!" Hail, Hail, Freedonia, land of the brave and free...
the military industrial complex is evil (Score:5, Insightful)
but this does not mean that enemies are just made up hoaxes
the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese, or a syrian
this is where you lecture me on how these are peace loving harmless countries that have been turned into monsters, just to slake a thirst to spend money by an industrial complex in the usa
you know, there are actually real breathing human beings in north korea and iran who think and have their own ideas, completely of their own will and independent volition. some of their ideas come from concepts they dearly believe that are older than the united states' existence. not just cardboard cut out reflections of some western propaganda from decades ago from a dead cold war era. maybe you should conceptionalize the fantasty that there exists real people outside the usa with their own agenda that did not start in washington dc
some of them have agendas that carry some malice for peace on this earth, not just malice for the economies of the west. what they believe and think is their own original creation, and may require defeat on a battlefield
i say that not because i love drinking oil from the skulls of dead children, or whatever nonsense you believe about someone like myself who would say such a thing, but because i understand, unlike you, that menace does not only flow from one place in the world, and the usa is not the only country with a military industrial complex
in fact, if you want to see the most complete representation of the idea of a military industrial complex controlling a country in all avenues of power, try pyongyang. tehran, not so much, but the revolutionary guard there is trying its best to defang the mullahs and be more of a direct military industrial complex dominating a country, just like pyongyang
so if you oppose the idea of the military industrial complex, you oppose north korea. unless your supposed principles are not so much real principles, just a thin veneer for the same old tired tribalism of hating a country or nationality such as the usa just out of the same old tired empty chest thumping avarice you believe you are above somehow?
Ask Japanese about Korea?? (Score:5, Insightful)
the venom from north korea and iran is real. just ask a japanese ....
Say what??
Ask Japanese about the Koreans?
For Your Information, it was the Japanese who invaded Korea multiple times throughout history
Not the other way around
this is not a godwin (Score:3)
he didn't they and they didn't because someone, somewhere, opposed them. their visions were not fulfilled because they were not in an environment of no effective opposition, like, say 1930s economically devastated germany
so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?
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so: do you think the cliques in power in tehran and north korea should be opposed? if not, why not?
They should be opposed with a level of effort equal to their level of threat - not their level of venom.
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You seem hung up on my word choice. I also question your judgment of what constitutes a threat. Regardless, we're just talking about malware here and you do agree a threat should be opposed and I can't fathom that you would think malware is provocative, so we're in the same ballpark at least.
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You seem hung up on my word choice.
Your word choice is a nice compact version of how the "cyberwar" threat has been sold. I've been watching the PR on this stuff for years, and you do a fantastic job of mirroring the worst of it, non-sequitors and all. I criticize your word choice because it is the unpolished version of the script the vested interests use.
I also question your judgment of what constitutes a threat.
You are hysterical, not haha hysterical, but completely irrational-evalution-of-the-threat hysterical. All black and white thinking about how any threat is too big of a threat.
we're just talking about malware here
Yeah, that
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I am not required to be a warmongerer to make a laughingstock out of someone who sees no threats from North Korea or Iran. Does one need a PhD in google search to review the recent history of those country's statements and actions? what is the magic exactly whereby you are convinced of the harmlessness of these countriesdespite the evidence of statements of intent and actions to obtain Capacity to fulfill intent?
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what is the magic exactly whereby you are convinced of the harmlessness of these countriesdespite the evidence of statements of intent and actions to obtain Capacity to fulfill intent?
Statements? There you go again with the same baloney as "venom." Utterly meaningless when assesing risk.
As for actual capacity - your hand waving at google is not a citation. The best north korea has been able to do is launch missiles that fall apart long before they reach japan. Iran isn't much better, their missiles could probably hit Athens on a good day.
Oh wait, this about "malware" well, there is ZERO evidence of either country producing malware of any significant threat. Nada. Zip.
Hysterical.
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i'm not going to cite anything. i'm not your father. this is not an obscure discussion on little known facts. if you require an education on the obvious points of discussion, you shouldn't be in the discussion. there has been nothing but a drumbeat of attacks, deaths, abducitions, and bellicose language for decades. if you don't know that, why are you talking about this subject and registering an uninformed opinion?
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i'm not going to cite anything.
Lolz. Such obvious points of discussion that you can't even name one much less provide a citation, huh?
if you don't know that, why are you talking about this subject and registering an uninformed opinion?
I'm confident you are the one with an uninformed opinion in this debate, vastly uninformed. The last couple of taepodong launches kept me pretty busy.
the point is, they are building and launching these missiles and bombs and constantly engage in bellicose talk! it means nothing to you?
they've been doing this for decades
Like you just wrote, they've been doing it for decades and the actual results have been what? A couple of south korean boats getting sunk. A couple of kidnappings of south koreans and japanese. Obviously we need to spend billions combating the clear and p
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i stopped reading there and will read you no more. these are countries hypermilitarizing and issuing bellicose language for decades. they don't act rationally, and their capacity to do harm is sufficient to cause a major disruption that theatens our national interests. to say this requires no citation for anyone with the slightest inclination to know the remotest facts of this subject matter
please be hones
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to say this requires no citation for anyone with the slightest inclination to know the remotest facts of this subject matter
Hallmark of the fool - claiming something is so obvious it doesn't need to be proven in the face of "reason." You are the one advocating bellicosity and hypermilitizing here - after years of seeing you do it on slashdot I think it is time we took your advocacy to heart and launched a pre-emptive cyberattack on you.
ok, i read that (Score:2)
someone who misrepresents someone else's position is what in your dictionary?
i'm not a warmongerer. i'm saying to say north korea and iran represent no threat is stupid. do you see the difference? i said it elsewhere:
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ok, I read that
Hypocrite.
someone who misrepresents someone else's position is what in your dictionary?
In my dictionary, that is YOU.
Your go-to style of argumentation is EXACTLY THAT. All you do is put words into other people's mouths. Hell you are such a solipsist you even quoted yourself not realizing that you did exactly that in your own quote from someone other discussion with someone else -- "this is where someone says we pushed them to that." Same shit you pulled on me when you wrote, "this is where you lecture me on how these are peace loving harmless countries."
Furthremore you keep insis
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do you understand?
No, and he won't understand. He's one of those people who, if asked, will probably identify as being sceptical, yet is more concerned with locating conspiracy than in developing a realistic understanding of a situation. Look at how the belief that "cyber war" is being overhyped is the backbone of his argument as to why North Korea is not a threat. Even accepting that military and intelligence agencies will work to create a market for themselves, that doesn't brush away the decades of sabre rattling we've se
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Neither of these countries are our neighbors. It is amazing how well you parrot the non-sequiturs of the war pigs.
They are neighbours of allies of the US. And of most of the western world. Japan is pretty important to the world's economy, as is South Korea, and nearer to Iran: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, UAE and Pakistan are all on their immediate border, and they're close enough to make things difficult for India, Israel, Jordan, Russia and Egypt (not even mentioning Afghanistan and Iraq, both of which share a border with Iran). These are not exactly countries that we want going to war. Quite aside from that, China has a de
i thought we were talking about malware (Score:2)
the topic of the fucking story you are posting under?
where did i say anything about shedding blood asshole? i said OPPOSE. what does the verb "oppose" mean nitwit?
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Don't get me wrong, I hate to go on the internet and be optimistic, I know that's not cool, but this sounds positive...
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
In other words, same shit as always, but now with much lower body counts?
Depends on how you measure "body count" - if it takes death by kinetic weapon to qualify, then sure. If it means slow deaths, like losing 10 years off a person's lifespan due to poor medical care, malnutrition, environmental pollution or whatever because resources were poorly allocated then no.
Furthermore, just as tasers seem to encourage misuse because of their advertised non-lethality, we stand a good chance of finding escalation of international conflict because of the less-obvious lethality of this sort of engagement.
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You seem interested in making a political point because you've:
a) compared defense spending to the completely unrelated health-care spending
b) cited a cherry-picked number for defense spending from a heavily partisan source that is way out of sync with what the CBO reports
The CBO's numbers for 2010 show defense and medicare/medicaid being roughly equal at 20% and 23% of the budget respectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2010.svg [wikipedia.org]
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless there's an advantage I don't see with Iran and North Korea strengthening ties.
It's called the "Slytherin Plan" - gather all your troublemakers and ne'er-do-wells and put them in one spot, so you always know where the next attack is coming from (pro-tip: it's coming from the hive of scum and villainy you just made by doing so).
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
the USA didn't make iran and north korea. this would disavow the existence of millions of human beings who of their own volition have made it their life's work to militarize and issue bellicose language for decades
oh i know "in ancient history cold war, the USA did {XYZ} to country {ABC}. therefore, the USA is forevermore 100% responsible for what country {ABC} does." with such stunning intellectual analysis, nevermind completely condescension and patronization of iranians and north koreans as nothing but cardboard cutouts of american actions, how can one argue?
also, i like how it disavows the USA of anything that happens in afghanistan. since because the USSR invaded it in the 1980s, by some idiot's logic, that means 100% of everything in afghanistan is Russia's fault forever. Oh wait, I'm sorry! We sold Osama bin Laden a stinger missile in the 1980s, so therefore, everything the man does after that is 100% our fault. sorry, i have to get with the mindless blanket blame game program and stop thinking of these people as having free will and the ability to create their own agenda, and remember that they are all just reflections of past american actions, of course
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe they did a little bit...
Iranian_Revolution#Historical_background [wikipedia.org]
Korean_War#Factors_in_U.S._intervention [wikipedia.org]
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I see this as an opportunity. Slip North Korea a couple faulty nuclear triggers and some time next week both county's nuclear programs should be lazily drifting downwind from a large blue glass ashtray. Whoops! Go straight from tickling the dragons tail to kissing its ass... can you say critical mass!
The best part is we can all just shake our heads and say "Hey, ya need a little technical assistance? We've done this before, be glad to help you bandage that owwy... 2,000 lbs of yellow cake? $10.5 million dol
Oh no, the horror! (Score:2)
The two most backward nations, totally reliant on imported technology for everything, join hands on technology. To do what exactly? Getter better deals on German equipment by placing their orders together?
You also got to wonder how this alliance will work. One hates religion, the other hates communism. A marriage made in heaven!
This is a very bad thing (Score:3, Insightful)
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You think 1930s Germany and Italy working together was bad.
To a pretty close first approximation, "Germany and Italy working together" = "Germany".
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More like Israel and South Africa working together [guardian.co.uk] to build nuclear weapons back in the 1970s.
Bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
What are they possibly going to do? They are outgunned in every respect - technologically, economically, and militarily by everyone who won't put up with their shit. Pre-WWII Germany had built itself back up to a manufacturing and academic (well, before they chased out the jewish PhDs) powerhouse. Meanwhile we've got the Mullahs afraid that people might actually learn things while at university and a North Korean populace that is reduced to eating grass every 10 years or so. Comparing Iran and North Korea to pre-war Nazi Germany doesn't even pass the belly laugh test.
Did you even see the ludicrous North Korean attempt at a supposed satellite launch? What about the photoshopped missile launch test from Iran?
Compare and contrast to the years between WWII and Yeltsin shelling Parliament when I would see maps in the Providence Journal of what would happen if a nuclear warhead detonated over Quonset Point Naval Air Station - an actual, credible, threat. That's what gets me about this "war on terrorism" and "axis of evil" bullshit which chews up trillions of dollars and ruins soldiers' lives for few actual results over imaginary threats to the US. We're supposed to soil our underwear over some technologically backwards regimes who don't even have actual long-range missiles and their medium range missiles leave much to be desired?
You want cyberwar? How about "accidentally" "dragging an anchor" over an undersea cable in the Persian Gulf or off the coast of North Korea? Because that's what our response is going to be if Iran and North Korea become offensive with malware botnets and they can do fuck-all about it. It's not like it hasn't happened before.
Threat? Please.
What fucking threat?
The people playing up this "threat" of Iran and North Korea are a bunch of pants-wetters and chickenhawks with only one thing in mind - making money off the unjustified fear and advancing the ideologies of PNAC and FPI banging the drums for boots-on-the-ground war with Iran and probably NK. Dan Senor isn't exactly a "potted plant" to take a term from Ollie North's lawyer.
Oh yeah, and guess who Dan Senor works for?
--
BMO
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somebody who constantly militarizes and issues bellicose language for decades isn't someone you look at for the idea of rational self-restraint
if north korea randomly sinks a ship or shells an island, as it has done in the last few years, killing dozens of south koreans, you could ask why, but the answer is simply: who knows? the problem is that therefore you can't depend upon them for anything rational or stable. they'll launch a missile at tokyo tomorrow. why? who knows?
then there is another argument you
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there's an argument for nipping the problem in the bud before the mistake happens. an unstable idiot with a gun is a problem. no matter how faulty the gun or how many cops are standing around him
There is an argument, but the argument needs to be tempered with "how many lives is this going to cost us nipping it in the bud?" Because you *know* that an actual invasion over the DMZ or by sea means that everything stationed by NK behind the DMZ gets launched.
Diplomacy has worked over the past decades, because i
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Two of the very worst cases of extremist idiocracies that actually have a bit of weight in their pants
In the front of their pants, or the back?
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The back of the pants was Italy, the front of the pants was Germany, and they had to bring Japan in to provide the reach around... and now you have the complete "Axis Powers as Gay Porn, Analogy".
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North Korea has a nuke but no delivery. The current plan is call South Korea for Korean Barbeque take out and tip the delivery boy with a nuke and detonate it after he crosses the border. Iran has missiles but no nuke. It wants to drop a warhead into the middle of Tel Aviv that opens up and shout "Psych!!!!" Together, they bother me. They are both incredibly inept, but they bother me. What do they say "Even the blind squirrel occasionally find a nut..." We need to play these bozos off one another hard. Its
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When you have two stupid people, they don't add up to one smart person. Two people with an IQ of 75 does not add up to 150. Consider that IQ is actually a percentage where 100=100 percent or 1. For typical meetings of people who have above average IQ, this increases the total IQ by multiplication. When you combine two stupid people you also multiply their IQs, but since their individual IQs are less than unity, the IQ of the system drops. For example: if two people meet and they both have an IQ of 75,
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Two incredibly stupid people, with desires of godhood or their desires for destruction on their mind. Are just as dangerous as two smart people with the desires bent on world domination. The difference between the two is luck, funding and skill. Luck, can make the first succeed, and cripple the second. Either because the first is getting "help" from the outside, and because the second because someone is working against them.
If you combine them, you might not get pre-war nazi-germany. What you might get
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I have a question for you, then.
How many 19 year-olds do you want to throw at the problem?
--
BMO
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Also remember that they are, in state personality terms, reckless, selfish, opinionated and generally uncooperative. When you put two argumentative basket cases in the same room, you can be sure there are going to be some disagreements.
Where does North Korea get its computers from? (Score:2)
Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from? People in that country are starving, and they cannot afford computers. That reduces the talent pool for the malware defence team. Also I don't think communism ethos is compatible with hacker culture, so the people who get to use computers are as thick as wooden planks...
Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (Score:5, Funny)
Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from?
Well up until recently, Kim Jung Il designed and built them all himself.
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Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from? People in that country are starving, and they cannot afford computers. That reduces the talent pool for the malware defence team. Also I don't think communism ethos is compatible with hacker culture, so the people who get to use computers are as thick as wooden planks...
Sanctions are disproportionately passed on to the little guy, after the Glorious Leader and his military get their cut of whatever's left.
Re:Where does North Korea get its computers from? (Score:5, Informative)
where does North Korea get its computers from?
Probably from the same place they got their nuclear technology: our dear friend and ally Pakistan.
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So who gives Israel their... nukes (?)
Not who you think, but that was over 40 years ago.
Who mess up the middle east in the first place?
Muhammad, when he failed to pick his own successor before he died.
Who's alright supporting anyone as long as it fits the current agenda?
Everyone, everywhere, forever.
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They get them from China. The elite are very well off, it's very similar as to how it was in the USSR. The peasants are broke, poor, and downtrodden, but the elites? You know, they get a pat on the head and a few hours of luxury. And if you're in the inner circle, you get even more privileges.
Don't worry though, through years of careful brainwashing they teach that the western world is out to "steal" their(n.korean) paradise.
Lol, and how is this different from the US? (Score:2)
They get them from China. The elite are very well off, it's very similar as to how it was in England and whatever other country American emigrated from. The factory workers are broke, poor and downtrodden but the farmers and the elite? You know, they get massive subsidies and bailouts and a few decades of luxury. And if you're in politics, you get even more privileges like state funded medical care.
Don't worry though, through years of TV watching, they teach their subjects that the socialists are out to ste
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I'm guessing you haven't been to China anytime in the last 10 years, and only listen to what the media here keeps telling you. That bulging middle class, that didn't exist 15 years ago is exploding as much as we didn't have one 200 years ago here.
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Considering all the trade and economical sanction, and the collapsed economy, where does North Korea get its computers from?
Up until recently, I don't know... however, I can guess that they'll mostly get them from Iran from now on.
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You mean, from the same place everybody gets everything: China.
in other words (Score:3, Funny)
the enemy of my enemy is my friend who has a BSOD just like mine
FreeBSD (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, to be a fly on the wall when those two get together one weekend to install FreeBSD for the first time.
Re:FreeBSD (Score:5, Funny)
Wouldn't they be more likely to install OppressionBSD? [ducks]
All because they use American Computer software... (Score:3)
It's all pretty funny really. They have malware because they're heavy uses of American Software. ie They NEED their hated enemy to make their software.
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It's all pretty funny really. They have malware because they're heavy uses of American Software. ie They NEED their hated enemy to make their software.
I dont think they actually need their enemies to make their software, but they use it because it exists and is available.
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They have malware because they're heavy uses of American Software.
Stuxnet came first and it was highly targeted at specific hardware configurations that would only be found in Iranian nuclear facilities.
I don't think it would have mattered what software the Iranians had installed,
since the (alleged) American/Israeli coders had all the time in the world to replicate the setup and probe for exploits.
The problem isn't American software, it's that flaws will creep into the most carefully crafted code.
Even the OSS theory that 'given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow' hasn'
Worth a laugh (Score:2)
This is like two clinically brain damaged boxers, one with delusions of grandeur, the other with terminal paranoia, both apoplectic with grotesque rage, each reeling and barely able to stand, stammering and slurring the simplest verbalizations, unable to sign their own names or feed themselves, hands shaking so badly they can't wee on their own without soaking the whole bathroom, bumping gloves and (attempting to unsteadily) stand together, thinking "NOW we'll show the bastards!".
I doubt this is going to st
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Seriously. They don't speak the same language, they don't look the same, their cultures are both extraordinarily xenophobic, and both of them are perceived on the world stage to be technologically incompetent. In Iran, the education system was there, but it's being rapidly dismantled, and anyway the mullahs make sure Iranians who learn things aren't allowed to do anything with what they learn, and North Korea is, well, a collection of peasants.
Punchdrunk boxers indeed.
New antivirus software industry in Iran, DPRK? (Score:3)
I could see an ironic twist to all of this. Iran and North Korea could end up pooling all of their resources and make really cutting-edge antivirus and antimalware software. We've seen other countries put government money behind a problem (ie. Japan funded research to make better car factories) and solve it in this way. And when Iran and North Korea make this wonderful new software the rest of the world might just line up to to buy it. Who knows what else they will innovate. We could be creating a monster here!
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In one corner, the defenders Iran and North Korea, stubborn to the end and willing to die for the cause...
In the other corner, all the resources of the west including but not limited to the NSA, the Israelis and Microsoft itself, willing to do anything to win...
I know where I'd put my bet.
Open Doors (Score:2)
This will probably make their cyber defense efforts easier to infiltrate.
Oh no (Score:2)
We should be proud (Score:2)
North Korea will share the secret with them (Score:2)
North Korea has already developed an unbreakable defence against cyber attacks: they don't have internet or computers strong enough to run a modern virus.
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Interesting they are implementing exactly that [marketwatch.com].
PRK passwords... (Score:2)
In related news.. no one was surprised that the master password to the top secret PRK government networks is 1-2-3-4-5. Iran couldn't be reached for comment but was seen to be changing the combinations on all the official state luggage.
I have an idea (Score:2)
People who live in glass houses... (Score:3)
Speaking as an AV guy, this does not bode well for (Score:3)
Hello,
It is interesting in reading the article and comments here on Slashdot that no one has talked about the effect cooperation between Iran and North Korea would have on either accelerating the pace of malicious software deployed against these nation-states, or even worse, the use of other means to combat their nuclear ambitions.
The Stuxnet worm was designed to target a single specific network. Yes, it spread in other ways, but the payload it deployed would was engineered so that it would only work on the Natanz nuclear facility's network. That is an insane level of precision and it clearly shows the huge investment made by the attacker(s) to ensure that this "cyberweapon" could only be triggered by the correct environmental conditions. It costs money to develop the targeting, payload and telemetry systems to support that, and the attacker(s) are only going to make that type of investment in what has to have been a highly-speculative "cyberweapon" if they believe they are going to get some value out of it.
The value in malicious software like this (as well as in commercial spyware offerings, like FinFisher) is in their ability to perform without being detected by anti-malware software. As soon as that happens, the malicious software no longer has any value. The attacker may attempt to update their malicious software for a few generations, but once they are on the radar of anti-malware companies, samples of the new variants will make their way to the researchers at the anti-malware companies, possibly with metadata or telemetry that allows the point of origin to be identified. Which is not so good for plausible deniability. It is also possible that the countermeasures introduced to foil detection by anti-malware programs will introduce unforeseen errors into the malicious program, simply because it was not as fully tested as the original attack.
If one is to believe that the Stuxnet worm was jointly-created by the United States and Israeli to (1) degrade Iran's nuclear ambitions; and (2) as a means of delaying an attack by Israel on Iran than one has to wonder about what sort of options are to be considered if malicious software is no longer an option.
From the defender's point of view, Iran's response to the Flame malware was probably the most effective thing they could do to combat it: The Iranian CERT blasted out copies of it to anti-malware companies around the world, ensuring that detection would be added in a matter of hours. Anti-malware companies add detection of malicious software sent to them; that's what they do, after all.
The idea that an anti-malware company would not add detection for a threat because it may have been created by or used by a governmentâ"or they were told not to by their governmentâ"does not hold water. While anti-malware software may be thought of as an American or Western European creation, there are plenty of anti-malware companies in South America, the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe and other parts of the globe, and any anti-malware company that did not add detection for such a threat would be subject to speculation and scrutiny about why. It would be a tacit admission by the country the anti-malware company operated in that their government was responsible for the malware.
Maintaining plausible deniability means not blocking or otherwise interfering with the detection of malware by anti-malware companies, and when they respond to a threat in hours that may have taken weeks, months or even years to develop, well, you start looking for other ways to get more bang for your buck. My fear is the emphasis will be on the bang.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
North Korea side = wrong side, under all aspects (Score:2)
Well, I think this makes it pretty clear what kind of people the Iranian regime consists of. Anyone who is prepared to ally itself with North Korea, the greatest gangster -1984 nightmare- regime in the world, loses all credibility in my book.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, AC, of course... I know I shouldn't, but just a wee snack. As an American, I'm not very proud of the stupid things my government has done, for... oh, let's say the last 12 years or so. I voted against all of it, as did most of my friends, but its my country and I feel responsible when it screws up, even when it did it against my wishes or blessing (I'm guessing parents must feel this way about wayward children.)
That doesn't make America a bad place or Americans evil (well not all of us :-) There is ple
Re:Oh, the Irony (Score:4, Funny)
Out of curiosity: which Nazi innovations am I using right now?
I'm pretty sure they made up the word "Nazi", which you just used.
Re:Oh, the Irony (Score:4, Funny)
Anytime you done wrote a complete sentence with proper grammar means the grammar Nazis have won.
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I am actually hoping that it is impossible for Nazi Germany to have not contributed to something every person uses today. Of the top my head, I am thinking Rockets (and technology build over it), I remember magnetic tape (audio tape), turbine engines, microwave cooking, some medicines (sorry I dont have names or sources).
Breaking Nazi crypto (Score:4, Interesting)
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And if it weren't for trying to break Nazi crypto, the Allies probably wouldn't have invented computers as we know them.
Are you saying that the Nazi's are responsible for Windows?
Re:Oh, the Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, if you're doing anything that involves a satellite, there's some Nazi tech. Your country is holding back the dogs of war with nukes that contain Nazi tech. If you ever did anything that involved hypothermia, you have Dr. Mengele to thank, of course he got that very useful information by freezing hundred of Jews to death, which while useful makes it one of the hardest won pieces of medical information ever collected and forever Mengele a scumbag of monumental proportions.
In fact the Nazis were brilliant engineers and there are literally thousands of improvements in motors, cars, trains, heavy machinery, factories and engineering and applied sciences that are a permanent part of everything we do. That doesn't mean they weren't barbaric. It does mean that they produced some amazing technology in the headlong race to self destruction. Hmmmm, sound at all familiar?
Re: (Score:2)
I wish I had not posted in this thread. I would mod both of your posts up if I could. Excellent points.
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Others have already made good points here.
Satellites and space stuff? Launch systems as we know them are largely the work of von Braun's team. Nazi tech!
Computers? The Z3 was not a particularly elegant machine, but it was the first programmable Turing-complete computer. Back in 1941. A good thing for the war that the Nazi leadership denied funding to upgrade the machine.
How about jet aircraft? The He 178 was the first one to fly. Designed by whom? Oh yeah, Nazis.
The StG 44 assault rifle made by the same dam
It's more than OS (Score:2)
What the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Islamic Republic of Iran are most interest on is not about malware
They are most interested on developing super-sonic anti-ship torpedoes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval [wikipedia.org] ) which employs Russia's Supercavitation technology ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation [wikipedia.org] )
Re: (Score:2)
They are most interested on developing super-sonic anti-ship torpedoes
And they will most certainly succeed, once the North Koreans figure out how to make those pesky factory workers survive for an extended period of time without the luxury goods that the evil Western imperialists call "basic foodstuffs".
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Islamic Republic of Iran are most interest on is not about malware
They are most interested on developing super-sonic anti-ship torpedoes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval [wikipedia.org] ) which employs Russia's Supercavitation technology ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation [wikipedia.org] )
I think a bunch of Western powers are interested in that. I don't think that one excludes the other. But hey, what do I know, I'm not American.