New Medal Designed To Honor Cyber Soldiers 230
bios10h writes "The Boston Globe writes that the Pentagon is creating a new medal to honor cyber soldiers. '[The] troops who launch the drone strikes and direct the cyber-attacks that can kill or disable an enemy may never set foot in the combat zone. Now their battlefield contributions may be recognized with the first new combat-related medal to be created in decades. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta announced Wednesday that the Pentagon is creating a medal that can be awarded to troops who have a direct impact on combat operations, but do it well away from any combat zone.'"
Let me guess (Score:5, Funny)
Does it start out bronze, silver, and then gold? And do you get a platinum one if you collect all of the other medals?
Re:Let me guess (Score:5, Funny)
Nah, it is just one medal that has a digital meter that continually updates your gamerscore.
Re:Let me guess (Score:5, Funny)
Not only do you have to kill a certain amount of people (civilians, enemies, womp rats, whatever), you also have to do pointless tasks like do 15 barrel rolls in a row with a drone to earn certain medals.
Anyone else?
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Too bad it's just another Free-to-Play turned Pay-to-Win. If you want to have any chance at making the leaderboards you need to spend some money on proper kit: Faster target acquisition software, cluster munitions, engine boosters. This is not good for competitive gameplay and several influential clans are considering dropping out.
To combat this trend, the US Army stated on their official blog that they are considering opening a marketplace with vanity items instead, like custom paint jobs and "death-tunes"
Re:Let me guess (Score:4, Informative)
ACTUALLY..
the drones like the predator rely on satellites for control.. .. this actually means that if the pilot turns too sharply (which the drone allows him to do) he can lose contact with the satellite and.. therefore, control..
doing a barrel roll is very unlikely!!
i imagine 'losing control' of the drone because you turned its little satellite dish away from the sat probably wont get you a medal... well, perhaps some Iranian guy may get one!
Re:Let me guess (Score:4, Funny)
ACTUALLY..
the drones like the predator rely on satellites for control.. .. this actually means that if the pilot turns too sharply (which the drone allows him to do) he can lose contact with the satellite and.. therefore, control..
doing a barrel roll is very unlikely!!
That's why it's worth more points.
10 pts Performed a barrel roll
15 pts Completed a training mission
25 pts Completed a combat mission with an all female (or male) squad
50 pts Killed 20 enemy commanders in 20 minutes
100 pts Completed campaign in hard mode
200 pts Killed an enemy at the same time as chatting with them in an online chat room
Re:Let me guess (Score:4, Informative)
Uh, the drones have built in autonomy to handle losses of communication. We'd be losing mad drones if that wasnt the case.
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Hemorrhoids
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How do you get a purple heart? Maybe from getting callouses on your palms from...the joystick?
From the exploding console, when the enemy destroys your drone and the feedback causes an overload in your plasma circuits.
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Purple Wrist medals (Score:2)
Drop them in the forge... (Score:2)
Drop them in the forge...but there is a semi-random chance it will fail and you will have to collect the lower medals again.
Err ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?
I'm sure these drone pilots are doing a good job and all but I wonder how their life could possibly be on the line in a nice cushy bunker somewhere.
I suspect this medal may well end up being called a Clayton's medal, the medal you get when you're not getting a medal.
Captcha: evasion: something drone pilots don't have to worry about too much :-)
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Say what you will, but I think the recipients will consider it an Achievement.
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Say what you will, but I think the recipients will consider it an Achievement.
Of course they will. Whether it actually is or not is debatable.
Re:Err ... (Score:4, Informative)
"Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?"
No. The point of medals is recognition for service. The military awards plenty of medals that have nothing to do with combat.
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"Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?"
No. The point of medals is recognition for service. The military awards plenty of medals that have nothing to do with combat.
Are they like Girl Guide badges, you mean?
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And you got to ride in a submarine!
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Any Campaign or theater Medal. You showed up to work somewhere unfriendly (though even Antarctica has one)
Antarctica is very unfriendly. You could die just by not dressing right or by standing in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then there's the penguins...
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Global war on terrorism service medal (GWOTSM), yeah. But not the Global war on terrorism expeditionary medal (GWOTEM).
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Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?
Not anymore.
Now the entire military infrastructure, from cleaning the latrines to killing suspicious civilians, can be gamified.
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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/29/world/la-fg-drones-civilians-20111230 [latimes.com]
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If that were the case then Generals wouldn't be so stacked. There are a ton of peacetime and service medals.
USAF here... (Score:2)
Medals needing no combat or even real sacrifice:
Good Conduct Medal - Don't get article 15'd for 3 years? You're awarded it. - You can look it up.
Achievement medal - Do something great, or a series of good tasks. Normally for the lower enlisted/officer grades
Accommodation medal - Supposed to be for even greater things than the achievement, in practice is simply more for senior NCOs and midrank officers.
The purple heart at least acknowledges your sacrifice; you managed to make it into a combat zone and cl
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THAT! is a bold faced lie! Absulutely zero risk??? Hardly! You can easily get meta-carpal tunnel syndrome by flying a drone for hours at a time! Not to mention hemorrhoids! Its also a hazard to sit for long periods of time! Ask an office worker!
Then you would receive a purple heart for being wounded in the line of duty.
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Then you would receive a purple heart for being wounded in the line of duty.
Better double check the requirements - the injury has to be the direct result of enemy action. Shot, stabbed, shrapnel, or just exploded enough to get a TBI.
Purple Heart [wikipedia.org] criteria- "Enemy-related injuries which justify the award of the Purple Heart include injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action; injury caused by enemy placed land mine, naval mine, or trap; injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological, or nuclear agent; injury caused by vehicle or aircraf
Purple Mouse (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?
That, sir, is un-American thinking. Those brave young men and women put their carpal tunnels on the line for you every day and they haven't even been granted a Purple Mouse in recognition.
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Purple Coronary?
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Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?
Don't you know anything? Video games need achievements now. But an achievement like "blew up children with drone" only pays out 10 gamerscore, it takes "personally shot up people trying to defend their country" to get the big numbers.
Re:Err ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not all awards are for risking ones life. Some, like the Army service ribbon are given simply for completing training. Some medals are given for achievements not necessarily related to heroism, like the Army Commendation Medal. Technically speaking, people are risking their lives to complete basic training, though.
Although there are no significant physical risks in fighting remotely, these service members are still going through significant stress and risking PTSD in their jobs. Yes, 'it's like playing a video game'. But there are real lives on the line, there is no pause button, and possibly endless days doing a single task. Doesn't matter if it's just pushing buttons in an airconditioned room, they lose sleep and their sanity just the same. Not to mention watching films of people dying, the ones they just killed.
I've read of facebook image filterers suffering from PTSD and depression. Now, imagine if those image filterers had to decide not just whether to block the image, but also whether to kill the people in the pictures.
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Yeah, we know. And these days, all kids are winners and get medals just for showing up at a sporting event.
The military's non-combat medals and ribbons predate WWII. Some trace their roots back to the continental army.
Graduating basic training/boot camp = ribbon.
Not getting in serious trouble for 3 years = good conduct medal.
They're doing work that any 15 year old kid could do if you told them it was just a video game.
Except that the 15 year old kids would suck at it. Seriously, tests have shown that gamers are worse drone pilots than non-gamers. Gamers can't take the long periods of boring activity between exciting parts without becoming distracted.
Then you get into the fact that piloting a drone is N
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Re:Err ... (Score:5, Informative)
They ran a massive ad campaign for a few years in Oz - "The drink you have when you're not having a drink" and it became a generic (mildly insulting) term that implied something wasn't real, or didn't have the content it should have.
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Ah, along the lines of "Dutch [x]" then?
(x being any element of a sizable array including "Wife", "Courage" and "Oven")
Orange Juice and Gingerale (Score:2)
Orange Juice and Gingerale, used to call it the designated driver's special. Good bars gave it to you free for being a designated driver.
Bad bars charged and you sometimes wondered if the orange juice was so old it had fermented!
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When I google for Clayton's medal, your post is the #3 result.
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No. Many past medals were for service, length of service, or campaigns. Some were even for good driving, believe it or not. Or good conduct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Conduct_Medal_(United_States) [wikipedia.org]
There are many medals, not all for valor.
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Isn't the whole point of medals to reward someone for putting their life on the line to protect their country?
In a word, no. There are lots medals. Some are awarded for the reasons you describe. Others, a great many others, for any number of things. 30 seconds with Google would have informed you of this.
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In Russia, practically everybody who is alive now and who worked during WWII has some kind of official honorary recognition in the form of a medal. But Soviet Russia was very big on empty honors.
As for the subject, the highest honor for scoundrels is a shot in the head.
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Not just.
They have medals for good conduct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Conduct_Medal_(United_States) [wikipedia.org]
Serving during time of war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Service_Medal [wikipedia.org]
Doing your job well inside or outside of combat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal [wikipedia.org]
Wounded or killed while serving:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart [wikipedia.org]
Serving in various Campaigns, wars, etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Service_Medal [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_Defense_Se [wikipedia.org]
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I suspect this medal may well end up being called a Clayton's medal, the medal you get when you're not getting a medal.
So you're saying it's basically a free token?
Order of Precedence (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to give out a medal for flying a drone, fine, I don't have a huge problem with it as long as you're great at it. What really irritates me and a lot of other service members is it's ranking in the 'order of precedence'. What I've read is it ranks above some combat medals, specifically the Bronze Star, which is really pissing off the 'boots on the ground' troops and I don't blame them for being mad.
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If you want to give out a medal for flying a drone, fine, I don't have a huge problem with it as long as you're great at it. What really irritates me and a lot of other service members is it's ranking in the 'order of precedence'. What I've read is it ranks above some combat medals, specifically the Bronze Star, which is really pissing off the 'boots on the ground' troops and I don't blame them for being mad.
But the nature of combat is constantly changing. Ground troops are still important but their role is going to become less important over time. In the future there will be robots used in certain roles where ground troops are used now. The drone operators and cyber warriors will eventually be the main role.
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But the nature of combat is constantly changing. Ground troops are still important but their role is going to become less important over time. In the future there will be robots used in certain roles where ground troops are used now. The drone operators and cyber warriors will eventually be the main role.
But I doubt they're going to give the robots medals for it, it's not as if they can lose their life. As I stated, giving a medal to a drone pilot is one thing, ranking it higher than a medal given for having an actual presence in combat is a whole different issue.
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combat implies two(or more) factions duking it out.
drone strikes don't seem to be used in combat. they're used for bombing strikes and surveillance. the surveilled or striked can't shoot back so it's just one way.
and remote planes is a long way from ground terminators.. even if they're basically the same thing. but they're a very long way from being able to be used in actual capturing of people, actual manning of checkpoints etc jobs which are the main jobs of the soldiers. the flying drones have a bunch of
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The risks change over time. The enemy is going to figure out that the US fights with drones and cyber warriors and begin targeting them.
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Maybe there should be a clear distinction (in names and designs) between service and bravery medals. Both have meaning and can be used to reward actions above and beyond the ordinary, but it would be good to not confuse the two.
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>which is really pissing off the 'boots on the ground' troops
May be instead of looking for shortcuts they should have considered doing something good instead of being hired murderous occupants.
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This is true.
The Bronze star while being a 'combat' medal doesn't require one to participate in combat to receive it. And in fact sets the bar pretty low with only requiring ' meritorious achievement or service'.
This new medal's requirement of 'extraordinary achievement' would indeed seem to place it higher then the bronze star. Point of fact 'extraordinary' is the same wording found on the service crosses; the second highest award after only the medal of honor. Where as one can find meritorious achieve
will they play this when awarding it? (Score:5, Funny)
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Stress (Score:5, Insightful)
The Christian Science Monitor had an interesting piece [csmonitor.com] a while back on the stress of remotely participating in combat:
At the end of the day, these pilots get in their cars and drive home to their families, mow the lawn and make dinner, or take their children to soccer practice.
The result is an "existential conflict" in some UAV pilots, says Col. Hernando Ortega, surgeon for the Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance Agency. It is "a guilt feeling, perhaps – or a 'Did I make the right decision?' " he explains." 'Was this a friendly fire incident? Was it a good outcome? Was it a bad outcome? Could I have done it better?'"
It's obviously not comparable to driving a LAV in convoy wondering when the next IED is going to detonate. But it appears to be a much tougher job than many of us would think.
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/the-guilty-conscience-of-a-drone-pilot-who-killed-a-child/266453/ [theatlantic.com]
Re:Stress (Score:5, Insightful)
The result is an "existential conflict" in some UAV pilots, says Col. Hernando Ortega, surgeon for the Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance Agency. It is "a guilt feeling, perhaps â" or a 'Did I make the right decision?'
Mayhaps part of the problem is that some of the drone-related operations are so blatantly wrong that soldiers who are executing them must feel the inevitable guilt. Not "was it right or was it wrong?", but "why did I just kill a group of civilians on purpose?".
For example, an attack on the funeral procession of "militants" killed earlier in the day [wikipedia.org]
(quotes around militants are added by me, since at least nowdays that is defined as "adult males")
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Mayhaps part of the problem is that some of the drone-related operations are so blatantly wrong that soldiers who are executing them must feel the inevitable guilt. Not "was it right or was it wrong?", but "why did I just kill a group of civilians on purpose?".
I think that is probably true. Not that I believe that deserves a medal or anything, but I am willing to believe that for a normally adjusted human, killing someone, even by remote control, is very destructive to the pysche.
I watched a video a of person dying [wikipedia.org] because I thought it was a very important event, that her death ought to be witnessed by as many people as possible. It was far more intense than I ever expected, even though it was no hollywood shoot-out or anything like the way death is portrayed i
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"Not "was it right or was it wrong?", but "why did I just kill a group of civilians on purpose?"."
When cowards insist on fighting a war and using women and children as body shields, please, enlighten us what YOUR solution is?
"Warrior culture" my ass.
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A counterinsurgency war is fought in the hearts and minds of the civilians in the occupied territory. These people can pick up a gun at any time and join the resistance, just like Americans civilians joined the resistance against the British during the Revolutionary War. Victory is achieved when there are too few resisters, a condition of which is that very few civilians join the resistance.
So, the question is how do we curtail the number of civilians joining the resistance? Unless we have an answer to this question, then we will lose.
The answer is clear: kill all the civilians.
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>But it appears to be a much tougher job than many of us would think.
boo. hoo.
Have you ever heard of Mujahedeen having such qualms? Have you every heard of a Taliban with a PTSD syndrome?
Screw you and your murderous mercenary invaders. May Allah destroy them. Ameen.
Interesting video (Score:2)
Why soldiers? (Score:2)
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Why do we have soldiers fly drones anyway? I imagine gamers would do a MUCH better job with the drones
Someone can be both a soldier and a gamer.
Comment removed (Score:3)
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Isn't that already included by default in all medals? I've never heard of an 'acting on your conscience' medal or 'doing the right thing' medal.
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They have one of those: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier's_Medal [wikipedia.org]
Medal Saturation (Score:2)
The military has joined the rest of American society in giving out awards for everything, for everyone, because we are all special.
Way more stressful than you think.... (Score:3)
When in the field, a soldier gets stressed out - sure, however they get to use much of the innate stress mechanisms humans and animals have of fight or flight.
When sitting behind a computer screen in an air conditioned office - much of the stress is still there however there is no mechanism for management.
Just ask an air traffic controller if they think their job is easy - now compound that by actually having to kill people.
Personally - I think these guys probably don't need medals, they probably need lots of counselling.
Participation (Score:2)
Everybody wins! Yaaaay!
The problem with Military Metals (Score:2)
Greneda (Score:2)
Funny how all this fascist behaviour and bravery of being out of range is starting after most all the WWII vets have died.
Kroll Show: "DRONES" (Score:2)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/09/kroll-show-drones-video_n_2653407.html [huffingtonpost.com]
Cyber warriors face real risks (Score:2)
I know this one. (Score:2)
pentagon quintupling cybersecurity operations (Score:2)
The medal (Score:2)
And this one was for pushing a button... (Score:2)
Oh yes. They need a medal. Because it is so dangerous for them sitting in front of a screen thousands of miles away from the conflict. How brave.
There are already medals commemorating exceptional work that is not necessarily dangerous. This is unnecessary.
And yes, I am a veteran.
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"... for those too chicken shit to face combat."
Like you?
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Truith BURN!
Seriously though, medals aren't just for combat. Many are simply for doing your job well. I guess not missing your target and killing kids by accident could be considered doing it well. This does seem to be fairly pointless though.
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Having been an army volunteer I can assure, soldiers will look upon those who wear that badge with total and utter contempt. After hours in the boozer those known for that badge will likely have to face off against those that volunteered for front line combat units.
Combat isn't about guts. (Score:2)
Combat is about survival and winning. It doesn't matter if you use snipers, nukes, or hackers.
That being said the concept of combat is going to change. Currently cyber soldiers aren't viewed as a combat role but that is going to drastically change in the near future when the enemy begins targeting them directly. Right now it seems like it's not a combat role but people felt that way about the Airforce at first too. The nature of war is going to change and combat will change but anyone who kills or risks bei
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> ...when the enemy begins targeting them directly
And at that point, the civilian population will realise what a really bad idea drone warfare is. It's all rosy whilst running an unequal contest, blowing up a bunch of Taliban with little ability to fight back. If an enemy with the ability to fight back is engaged, bombs will start falling on the drone pilots, and the civilian population will realise that drone warfare has turned them into human shields.
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anyone who kills or risks being killed for the US Constitution should have our respect.
I do not think the people who will do that are the people you think they are.
As it stands, soldiers do what they're told. Their orders come from Congress (theoretically) and the president (currently), neither of which give a flying fuck about the Constitution.
Today's soldier is no less the gullible young testosterone-laden hellion than any soldier of the last umpteen-thousand years of history, and no less prone to penis-waving and patriotic bullshit. The only rule of history that never changes... is that
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You deserve a medal for that post.
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Would that be like the chicken hawk award for all those politicians that assiduously avoided any form of combat and protected their own spawn with all sorts of religious and political lies but were all rah rah when it comes to sending other people to fight and die in wars, all support your military until they come back home wounded then it's cut back on medical and support services and pretend they don't end up homeless. I get it now, the setting up drone warfare positions for the spawn of politicians so t
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Darn it, I was going to use that for my XBL indie game, but apparently it's internally reserved.
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Laundering the LEO request via a state agency you get the name back.
They had a higher security clearance than your boss...
Men in suits visit your cubicle demanding to know why their database was alerted...
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The soldiers will probably just get a piece of paper and have to buy the medal themselves, lol.
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It just shows how low the US can go.
Is it that much different than "paid administrative leave" and "zero-risk desk work" rewarded to heavy handed, violent, and corrupt police officers?
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Because all the families of the innocents slain fucking hate you, and your country, and all that drone killings represent. I mean seriously, congratulations: you ran some software someone else made, and you followed orders from someone else to drop a bomb on something you didn't personally go to. Thanks a lot?
That's ok.
They were all bad.
The government said so.