New Pope Selected 915
Freshly Exhumed sends this quote from CBC:
"Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina has been selected as Pope of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics. He will be known as Pope Francis. He is the first Pope from the Americas. The 76-year-old was the runner-up to Benedict XVI during the last conclave. He is well-known for his humility and espouses church teachings on homosexuality, abortion and contraception. He has no Vatican experience."
oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
76? (Score:5, Insightful)
Best keep that straw and chimney handy.
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Re:76? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:76? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm thinking this is done on purpose. I imagine it is very hard to fire the pope.
If the cardinals like the pope, it shouldn't be too hard to find a like-minded replacement. If on the other hand the pope falls out of favor, he won't be around to long in any case.
Plus they get all the positive buzz from the retirement/replacement process.
Re:76? (Score:5, Insightful)
John Paul II was elected pope at and earlier age and some would say electing a younger pope, means having a pope for a long time. Now the younger pope may be more of a reformist... However he will stay in power for so long, that his reforms will become old, and backwards. Having older popes with a gradual changes could be more productive.
The big issues is that us Western Cultures have in terms of Sex Rights. (Woman's Rights, Abortion, Gay Marriage, Contraceptives) Are fairly new (40 or so years old) A younger pope may address these issues... However The way he addresses these issue will stay the same for the next 40-50 years. By that point culture would have changes where that method would seem unheard of. Having an older pope who will last 5-15 years means every new pope will gradually put in new changes.
In some ways is like having continual obsoleteness in your policy. However sometimes a popular idea at the time turns out to be be a bad idea.
For example in the United States Bill Clinton Signed the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy. This at the time was actually considered to be pro-Gay bill. Where it prevent the military from trying to find gay people to kick out. However over time and culture has changed further, the Don't Ask Don't Tell was considered to be anti-Gay and needed to be repealed.
If we get a young Pope, he may come up with an appropriate compromise solution at the time, then by the time he dies or resigns, the policy is completely outside the change in our values.
Re:76? (Score:4, Funny)
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What is this "work" you're talking about?
Re:oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
If the new Pope is not made of chocolate, and filled with marzipan, then I'm not interested.
Unless he has a jet pack. Or a robot named "Muad'Dib".
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Okay, I've heard of a moped Jesus, but not a marzipan pope.
Nice Bowie reference.
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well I never saw that comming , All i head was they had elected the hand of God from Argentina.
But seriously Pope Diego Maradonna the first??
Re:oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
No, dummy, RTFS. Pope Francis.
Settle down, Francis.
Re:oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
I was really hoping that he would call himself Pope Awesome. A little marketing never hurt. If I were Pope, I'd have to go with either taking the name Mobile, or possibly Oree.
Re:oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
Don't understate the importance of this. I heard the new pope uses emacs instead of vim (because "my fingers learned that one on the dvorak keyboards in the seminary"). And yet, he prefers python3 over scheme. Runs it all on Mac OS 10.4 and won't upgrade to 10.8, because
I don't care if you don't see any geeky controversy here; the python3 thing is important. The new pope is saying fallible things on the Internet!
Re:oh cool.. (Score:5, Funny)
It's getting the same coverage that a casting change in Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings or any other long running fantasy series would get.
Re:oh cool.. (Score:4, Insightful)
So.... (Score:5, Interesting)
espouses church teachings on homosexuality, abortion and contraception
So nothing important is going to change then? Or am i misreading that?
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
espouses church teachings on homosexuality, abortion and contraception
So nothing important is going to change then? Or am i misreading that?
Well people could choose to stop with the religion thing in response.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
When have our views on contraception, abortion and homosexuality modernized? In the last 30, 20 and 10 years. Same-sex marriage is still a huge debate. The pope is 76. The pope with a modern view is 20 today, and will become pope in 40-60 years.
This is not a democracy where you can replace people every 4 years, this is a rigid hierarchical structure of with no balances and 1 billion people. And it is supposed to not change much.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Our views" (depending a lot on who "us" is; assuming the general European populace from which the uppermost Catholic hierarchy is mainly drawn) on contraception modernized in the 1960s, when the pope was (barely) a 20-something. Since that time, there have only been very small ultra-conservative enclaves (the Papacy among them) in which birth control --- even for married couples waiting for a better time to start their family --- is considered an abomination. The Catholic hierarchy lags much farther behind on these issues than your simple chronological estimates (though not the general Catholic population, which statistically employs birth control as frequently as everyone else).
OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:4, Interesting)
Devotees of Ireland's 12th century Saint Malachy believe that he predicted back then that the new Pope will be the very last one:
http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/St-Malachy-predicted-Pope-Benedicts-successor-will-be-last-pope-190715001.html [irishcentral.com]
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Funny)
I heard this guy is the logical choice, since who better than an Argentinian to offer sanctuary to a German with human rights abuse issues?
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:4, Informative)
Im not sure its entirely accurate to call Peter the "first pope". The office as such did not exist, and the specific role of "pope" was never acknowledged by Peter or anyone else at that time.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Insightful)
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In catholic tradition, it's entirely accepted to be the case. I mean, if you want to talk about things that lack historical precedent in the context of religion of all things, I'm sure we could find better examples.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Informative)
The pope has always been the Bishop of Rome. It's difficult to deny that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. Whether that makes him the first Pope can be a matter for debate, however. Part of it is how inerrant you believe the Bible really is: there's reason to believe that the "Upon this rock I shall build my church" verse in the Bible was inserted by those wishing to bolster the Papacy's claims.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Funny)
or of that role being hereditary
That's something the papacy has generally avoided.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Funny)
Im not sure its entirely accurate to call Peter the "first pope". The office as such did not exist, and the specific role of "pope" was never acknowledged by Peter or anyone else at that time.
Well, there was this one guy (hint: his initials were J.C.) who said: "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church ..."
This was a pun because "Peter" means "rock" (JC was a funny guy). So if we followed biblical precedent, the next pope should have been ... Dwayne Johnson.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Funny)
The church must have petered out.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:4, Funny)
Well, there have been a lot of peter problems in the church.
Re:OMG the Last Pope EVAR!!!!!!!1 (Score:5, Funny)
warning, NSFW for most workplaces, but an amusing Tim Minchin song about the pope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE [youtube.com]
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In theory he could change those teachings. But it seems unlikely.
But I mean really, is it news that the person selected Pope agrees with Church teachings? The Cardinals aren't too likely to select someone who disagrees with them.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Informative)
They don't pick a pope that's promising reform, they pick one that will carry on just like the previous popes. Religions appear to prefer stagnation, at least at their upper levels. I wonder if it has anything to do with their age? "Clinging to the past" seems to be a common hobby with most old farts ;)
I like the "he has no previous experience" thing they mentioned. I don't think "have you ever been a pope before?" was part of the the interview...
Re:So.... (Score:5, Informative)
I like the "he has no previous experience" thing they mentioned. I don't think "have you ever been a pope before?" was part of the the interview...
The no previous experience statement isn't to do with being a pope, but with having been part of the Vatican bureaucracy before the election. One of the areas of reform needed is in an apparently corrupt bureaucracy and the last chap was part of the club, having headed up part of it for a decade or more.
This chap has been running an archdiocese in Argentina for the last couple of decades and only set foot in Rome once or twice a year. In American terms, it would be like electing a small town mayor to the office of president, and hoping that the fact he doesn't know how Washington should work will let him clean up the place.
Expander transfusion (Score:3, Informative)
they still think that I shouldn't have a blood transfusion after I crash my motorcycle and lose a couple pints
Not consuming blood is in the Bible (Acts 15:29), and theoretically, it applies to all Christians. In practice, there's nothing wrong with having an expander transfusion [wikipedia.org] to keep your blood volume up until your bone marrow has spit out more red blood cells. In fact, it's safer that way because there's no need for an antigen type match and no chance of catching an STD or other blood-borne infection.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Funny)
So nothing important is going to change then? Or am i misreading that?
The World will continue to change, but the Catholic Church will not be leading those changes. Here is a car analogy: If the World was a car driving down the freeway of life, the Catholic Church would be a parking brake that was not fully disengaged, thus impeding progress slightly and emitting a bad smell.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Funny)
So nothing important is going to change then? Or am i misreading that?
The World will continue to change, but the Catholic Church will not be leading those changes. Here is a car analogy: If the World was a car driving down the freeway of life, the Catholic Church would be a parking brake that was not fully disengaged, thus impeding progress slightly and emitting a bad smell.
To continue the car analogy and to point out the differences, while the Catholic Church may be wearing the parking brake out, the evangelical Christians are trying to throw the car in reverse. And all while they are in a fist fight with the Muslim fundamentalists (who are also looking for reverse) over who's hand will be on the shift lever. Meanwhile, the Quakers are pointing out that one should use the clutch when shifting gears and the Pastafarians are looking for a different car in which to ride.
Re:So.... (Score:5, Funny)
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espouses church teachings on homosexuality, abortion and contraception
So nothing important is going to change then? Or am i misreading that?
So you honestly thought that they would elect a new pope who would didn't agree with long standing church teachings? What is interesting is that the new pope is a non European. As for what it means, or what will change, that has yet to be seen.
Re:So.... (Score:4, Interesting)
So the Catholic Church will remain conservative for a very long time. This should not surprise anyone that has been paying attention - this institution took four centuries to recognize that Galileo was right.
News for nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
What is his favorite distro? views on FOSS?
Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
With all the forks, how could FOSS be more Protestant?
The Mother Church clearly prefers a strictly Microsoft shop.
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Yes,
we know of the Pope's death before anyone else... they order extra punchcards.
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Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
He's religious and intolerant, so obviously his favorite OS is Emacs.
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He's religious and intolerant, so obviously his favorite OS is Emacs.
He's religious and intolerant, so obviously his favorite OS is . . .
. . . the Spanish Inquisition . . . !
Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Funny)
He's religious and intolerant, so obviously his favorite OS is Emacs.
He's religious and intolerant, so obviously his favorite OS is . . .
. . . the Spanish Inquisition . . . !
Honestly, I didn't expect it.
So what religion does he belong to? (Score:5, Funny)
linux, mac, vi, or emacs? :)
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He leads a major denomination, Bud. He's a Mac guy.
Re:So what religion does he belong to? (Score:5, Funny)
Funtastic! (Score:4, Insightful)
Now will he renounce the current Catholic stance on condoms, so that perhaps we can save, oh, hundres of thousands or even millions of lives?
Will he: Disawow the insane and puerile dogma of original sin?
(Etc.)
Re:Funtastic! (Score:5, Insightful)
. . . and espouse the good news of salvation by grace which was promised by the one they claim to follow?
Of course not. That would end Catholic guilt, and eliminate the need for indulgences.
Bigoted (Score:4, Informative)
This guy has said that allowing gay couples to adopt children is a form of discrimination against the children.
So a lot's going to change in Vatican City
No word yet on papal shitting location. (Score:5, Funny)
The woods, however, are still the traditional choice.
Oh well. (Score:5, Funny)
So, basically nothing changes (Score:4, Insightful)
espouses church teachings on homosexuality, abortion and contraception
Guess he'll continue the long, proud tradition of covering for child molesters too.
In related news ... (Score:5, Funny)
2/3 majority (Score:5, Insightful)
A Jesuit Pope -- this could be very interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:viva Argentina and Bergolio!!! (Score:5, Informative)
the first non-european pope
Whoa -slow down there, cowboy!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:African_popes [wikipedia.org]
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Re:Humility? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Please explain how they are not compatible?
Re:Humility? (Score:5, Insightful)
Being humble, but also believing that your views on how other people should live their lives are so righteous that others shouldn't even be able to decide for themselves, are mutually exclusive.
Re:Humility? (Score:4, Interesting)
Being humble, but also believing that your views on how other people should live their lives are so righteous that others shouldn't even be able to decide for themselves, are mutually exclusive.
So, nobody who supports, say, laws against murder can ever possibly be humble?
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Presuming to know what's good for homosexuals, inadvertently pregnant women and people who want to have sex without getting pregnant and then forcing those views upon them through a large, well organized, well resourced church is not exhibiting humility. An approach imbued with humility would go alone the lines of - I think these things are true, but I might be wrong, so I'll exercise caution and be mindful of contrary opinions. Depending on context, 'pride', 'egotism' or 'arrogance' would serve as opposite
Re:Humility? (Score:5, Informative)
Here in Germany the Catholic and Protestant Churches run many hospitals, kindergartens and other welfare services which are funded not by the churches but entirely by the public, yet they impose rules on their employees based on their respective faith, ie. people have lost their jobs for getting a divorce, remarrying, outing themselves as homosexuals etc. The churches make a shitload of money through this system, and because they can publicly claim that they run soandso many percent of welfare services they get to influence public policy and politics. This all works so well because as religious organisations the churches get preferred treatment with regard to taxation, exemption from labour regulations and union rates etc. so they can undercut the private-sector competition. And since they are so good at it there are areas where the churches have a quasi-monopoly in welfare services, leaving workers dependent on them. And as long as the Conservatives are in office this will not change, since the churches offer them, well, let us call it PR support in exchange for keeping their special status intact.
So many people in social industries essentially are forced to live by religious rules without actually being a member of those religions just to be able to get a job. And we all get to pay for it.
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Catholics have just as much right to vote for candidates and policies that they believe to be in the best interest of the country as anyone else.
Everyone else who advocates for a particular political position is voting based on their beliefs, whether they are derived from religion, philosophy or just plain self interest, are they not?
Re:Humility? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Humility? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really Slashdot? I get the whole Libertarian "take away marriage benefits from everyone" argument, but did you have to mod up the guy that just reduced gay relationships to the "selfish desires of people in a relationship that is destined to be sterile"?
I know this place has been going downhill for a while, but I didn't think we'd stooped THAT low. How about we make our arguments without implying that LGBT people should just suck it up, stop being "selfish" and be heteronormative for the sake of the children?
Re:Humility? (Score:4, Interesting)
I wasn't sure if I should even respond to such obvious flamebait, but some of what you say is unfortunately believed by quite a few people (even gay rights supporters) so it is still worth debunking.
If you're saying that Marriage is purely secular, you're not being intellectually honest.
Marriage is a secular institution. First off it is a ceremony that is recognized by almost every culture in history, including athiest societies such as the former USSR. Christmas and barmitzvahs are religious in nature, but marriages certainly are not. A marriage is a legal union that society recognizes as forming a single household from what was once two independent individuals. Marriages are useful for defining laws and traditions that govern how these unions are handled. Things like property rights can turn into difficult matters so it is important to have concrete laws to settle disputes (just look how messy most divorces or some inheritance splits can become).
Most religions throughout history have also added non-secular meaning to the institution of marriage, but that is a separate matter. Would you want the government to stop you from getting married if the Koran said that all marriages not recognized by Allah were null and void? That is the same argument used by anyone who says someone cannot be married because their religion is against it.
I'm against homosexual marriage and especially against homosexual adoption. I don't think it is good for kids to be told that they don't need a mommy and a daddy, that mommy and mommy are fine and we don't need a daddy. I think it is harmful on a level that will not manifest itself for a long time, but will eventually. Kids do need both a Mommy and a Daddy, that is optimal.
I agree that having homosexual parents is probably not a 100% optimal situation. The "optimal" situation is probably something like two upper middle class well educated parents who don't divorce and live in one of the best school districts in the country. But should lower middle class people not be allowed to adopt because it is not optimal to have kids in a household with money problems? Should parents who never went to college not be allowed to adopt because they are less likely to provide the same enriching educational environment as two parents with post-graduate degrees?
All studies I have seen conclusively shown that homosexual parents can raise emotionally mature, intelligent, and well rounded adults. I am pretty sure studies show that they do much better than average even. Any opinion that homosexual parents cannot to an adequate job is either very ignorant or very bigoted.
If the point of homosexual marriage is for "love" then I don't have a problem with it. Get married. However if you want additional "benefits" from government, you're going to have to be much clearer that it is ONLY about these things that you care about, and that it isn't about "love" at all.
Why is it mutually exclusive? This is such an incoherent rambling I am not even sure how to respond. I love my neices and nephews, but if my brother requests a legal document that states I take care of his children if he dies that does not mean I love them less because I asked the government to make it legal. I feel silly even writing something like that, but I think you may actually believe the comments you are making so it is worth pointing out how erroneous these opinions are.
AND if you extend those "rights" to gay people, then you must also allow for other non-traditional marriages like polygamy, polyandry and incestuous marriages as well. If not, then you're just as discriminatory as you claim people like me are.
Society is overwhelming against non-traditional marriages in cases of polygamy and incenteous marriages not because they are just untraditional. It is because of the female oppression that accompanies societies that practice the former, and the medical problems inherent in the latter.
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"As a humble human, it is not my place to pass judgement on others' behaviors"
"Thou shalt not murder" is passing judgement on other people's behavior. You're not against that ... are you? Or is your selective argument not as broad as you'd like it to be.
My point is, everyone judges people on their behavior, we're just arguing on where to draw the line ;)
Re:Humility? (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, you are condemning others. Yes, I am condemning you for that. I operate from a moral framework with more than a single axis of "condemnation=bad, anticondemnation=good," rather considering the whole network of impacts from who and/or what is being condemned (btw, I am a Christian).
I would not support you in repealing all government granted benefits of marriage, because that would be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" --- I think there are great societal benefits to government-recognized marriage, but none that specifically require a male+female couple. Likewise, I do not think it would have been a good idea to fix Jim Crow era discriminatory voting laws by revoking everyone's right to vote.
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He accused fellow church leaders of hypocrisy and forgetting that Jesus Christ bathed lepers and ate with prostitutes."
http://news.yahoo.com/francis-first-pope-americas-193844474.html [yahoo.com]
Re:Humility? (Score:5, Interesting)
And the current President of the United States use to be a community Organizer and teach Constitutional law. These days his administration uses drones to bomb communities and seems to look the other way when Constitutional rights are stripped from US citizens.
I guess people can change, or they play a great act.
In the new Pope's world, being truly humble would be following the examples of Christ without the power of being a Cardinal. Perhaps it may be better to say the Pop was less egotistical then other Cardinals. Mother Teresa was humble, Pope Francis I is a powerful man who's done good deeds.
Re:name change (Score:5, Interesting)
The tradition was started when a Pope named Mecurious (Mercury) was elected. He thought that a Christian Pope with a pagan name wasn't kosher (so to speak), so he took the name "John" (I think it was John).
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Tax evasion, of course!
Re:Before anyone says it... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, this is A Website for Advertisers, and one of the easiest ways to get a lot of page views is to post an article where all the angry atheists can come argue about who is the most bitter toward religion.
Re:Before anyone says it... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sociologically, they operate in similar ways as well. I say this as both a Star * fan and a religious fellow (though not a Catholic). In both groups, identity is tied to adherence ("Are you a Buddhist too?" is not far from "Are you a Trekkie too?"), consumption patterns reflect attachment (one has X-Wing models, the other crucifixes), intense debates occur over canon (the Gnostic gospels and the SW prequels have much in common, except one has better acting), and both groups hold in high regard those who have specialized knowledge about the object of their interest.
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Well, I was amazed how fast his article in Wikipedia got updated. It didn't take more than a minute. Also, many big news websites in my country are down. That never happened before, as far as I know.
Re:really, slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it has a substantial impact on the world.
Re:really, slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
He might make statements that are held to be authoritative by 1.2billion people?
Initially a chemist (Score:5, Interesting)
http://news.yahoo.com/francis-first-pope-americas-193844474.html [yahoo.com]
Re:really, slashdot? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does Slashdot really need to carry this story? It has nothing to do with science, tech, gaming, or anything relevant.
It has everything to do with homophobic, misogynistic, pedophilic, and racist organization which puts on airs of setting out to do good but in reality protects child diddlers and extorting money from gullible followers while ignoring the bible which it purports to follow, nothing to do with science or tech. Why again is this on slashdot?
Know thine enemy.
Re: (Score:3)
Page views?
Re:lent (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Haters Gonna Hate (Score:5, Insightful)
The same people who hated Benedict XVI and John Paul II will hate Pope Francis. How dare he believe in 2000 years worth of teachings about the sanctity of life and marriage being between a man and a woman when it's all so unfashionable?
Why did liberal atheist's care so much what the Pope thinks. No one is holding a gun to your head to force you to be a Catholic. Why do so many liberals feel threatened by any source of power outside of government?
Just because something is 2000 years old doesn't make it right. Should we bring back old testament style animal sacrifices as well?
I have no problem with catholics being anti-gay and excluding gays from their church - if god is not the compassionate and forgiving god that they are always talking about it, well, it's their god and they can believe what they want.
But where I do have a problem is when the members of the church try to deprive the rights of homosexuals outside of church.
Re:Haters Gonna Hate (Score:5, Insightful)
Leviticus 21:20-23 "or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles...because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary"
Leviticus 19:27 "Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."
This new pope wears glasses and is clean shaven, therefore according to the word of god he is just as much an abomination as any gay and he is desecrating the sanctuary of the lord. Stone him to death plz.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Haters Gonna Hate (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Haters Gonna Hate (Score:5, Interesting)
If the old covenant was replaced by Jesus, why does the Catholic Church care if they are celibate or not?
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cue 1 |kyoo| [Mac OS X's Dictionary.app]
noun
1. a thing said or done that serves as a signal to an actor or other performer to enter or to begin their speech or performance.
2. a signal for action: any conversational lull was my cue for asking a question.
3. a piece of information or circumstance that aids the memory in retrieving details not recalled spontaneously.
As in: Bigots, it's time to do your thing. This is your cue.
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Re:News for nerds (Score:4)
Unless you bitched about the articles on which actors were coming back in the new Star Wars, or the random bloviations of some rich guy or pundit at SXSW... you really don't have much of a leg to stand on. Roman Catholics represent about a sixth of the worlds population, and one of the largest (if not the largest) organized religions in the world. The selection of a new Pope is indeed something that matters.