Brown vs. Startup Over a Sandwich 119
An anonymous reader writes "Crunchbutton, founded by Yale grads, is trying to replicate the success of its one-button food delivery service in and around Brown University. The controversy began when the startup delivered a popular Brown sandwich called the 'Spicy With' to students. Brown's lawyers sent Crunchbutton a cease and desist letter, demanding that the company remove any associations with the university or its name. The startup says it has complied with the demands, yet Brown has not backed off, and it expects to be served with a lawsuit. This tale illustrates the perils of encouraging entrepreneurship while protecting the interests of a big educational institution."
ooookay? (Score:2)
Brown also happens to be a perfectly cromulant color and a very popular surname. Brown University can go... do something indecent.
Re:ooookay? (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'd like to know is what the hell is on the sandwich?
Not everyone is from Yale and Brown, whoever wrote the summary and article.
Re:ooookay? (Score:4, Insightful)
Spicy chicken sandwich with cheese (Score:2, Informative)
It's a spicy chicken sandwich with cheese. "Spicy With" isn't actually the name, it's just something students shout at the grill cook to save half a second.
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Just as you would specify 'wit' or 'witout' for whether you wanted onions on your Philly cheese steak sandwich.
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Oh man, if only there was some sort of ARTICLE ABOUT THE TOPIC IN QUESTION, LINKED FROM THE BRIEF SUMMARY.
Having graduated from Betaspring, Crunchbutton replicated its Yale model by setting up a delivery service for Brown students to order the popular “Spicy With” sandwich from Jo’s, a campus eatery operated by Brown Dining Services.
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Oh man, if only there was some sort of ARTICLE ABOUT THE TOPIC IN QUESTION, LINKED FROM THE BRIEF SUMMARY.
Having graduated from Betaspring, Crunchbutton replicated its Yale model by setting up a delivery service for Brown students to order the popular “Spicy With” sandwich from Jo’s, a campus eatery operated by Brown Dining Services.
Okay, but what's on the sandwich?
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Didn't Brown University patent a chicken and cheese sandwich around 1750 or so? Maybe I have the date wrong, but obviously, Brown has the patent. If you want to sell chicken and cheese sandwiches, you need to get a license.
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After a bit of black magics (I used a search engine. MAGIC!)
It's Chicken with cheese.
Show your work.
Fried chicken cutlet with cheese is pictured next to some stories about the Spicy With, but where do you see the sandwich described in detail? What condiments are on it? Etc.
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Easy fix. Crunchbutton declares bankruptcy, employees get paid all wages due at 100% first, everyone else waits in line and gets pennies on the dollar. The same startup group then fills out the paperwork for a new corporation under a different name, does that same thing but without using the "Spicy With" name. If the Brown lawyers still try to come after them, just direct them to the back of the line for the bankruptcy hearings of Crunchbutton.
I've seen startups do this many times before, and it works.
Obviously some kind of rivalry at work (Score:1)
How much you want to bet this is just Brown being butthurt that they're getting one-upped by Yale grads yet again..
Brown? (Score:5, Funny)
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Yale : 2
Brown: 0
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The Zune Sandwich.
Bet it's not popular then.
The decline and fall of the American Empire (Score:4, Funny)
people tend to choose the same one or two items whenever they call a particular restaurant for delivery or take-out. And restaurants tend to have a few popular items that they make particularly well. Why not match up supply and demand with a smart button that makes ordering super-simple?
For people who think that ordering food delivery is just too much work.
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Or maybe they want to try something new and don't know what's good at a new place.
Like the time I ordered Menudo at a Mexican joint because the menu suggested it was a Mexican version of Beef Stew.
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Like the time I ordered Menudo at a Mexican joint because the menu suggested it was a Mexican version of Beef Stew.
That's still better than ordering something "made with love" and getting "cream of sum yung gai" :p
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Re: The decline and fall of the American Empire (Score:2)
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Actually, maintaining customer preferences is all-around a good idea. If you tend to order one of a few items done a certain way, why not make it easy and just let you pick it off of a touch screen or whatever? They don't have to get your order right, you don't have to spell it out, and you can basically walk up, swipe your card, tap two buttons, and it is ordered/paid. Assuming people read the order, the error rare would be much lower as well.
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Re:The decline and fall of the American Empire (Score:4, Insightful)
ordering food is one of those things that's much, much better done with a machine than with a phone.
first off, phone takes much more time. not only that, but it takes two persons time leading to one person at the sandwich place practically having to do phone duty. and since he has to do some sort of data input from mumblings of callers with bad lines, it's error prone. it's much, much simpler if the guy ordering the stuff does the data input into textual form that prints out on a slip for the cook. even simpler if he pays up front too(no joke orders).
whenever I order kebab, I do it online. much simpler for everyone involved - all the kebab/pizza places here have staff that have moved in from elsewhere - try explaining valkosipuli and jauhelihakastike to them over phone.
it's not as much about laziness as it is about getting what you actually want!
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For people who think that ordering food delivery is just too much work.
Sounds like they've found a prospective customer base for Pre Chew Charlie's.
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Obligatory XKCD (Score:1)
1. Do they have a command-line client?
2. Does it require root privileges?
Nothing to report (Score:4, Insightful)
That being said, I don't see why they need to focus on campuses at all, except it's a good market for delivery & cell phone usage. There is no need for a lawsuit and they already stopped delivering food associated to Brown.
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Well, I think Facebook showed that for college students, starting out on campus is a perfect incubator. It's easier to be relevant, you can easily mingle with the population to gauge the reaction, to figure out what works and what doesn't. Unlike facebook, these guys have already monetized their service. It seems as though they're in a pretty good position.
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Food delivery service is popular with a population of people which generally don't own cars or have the equipment, utensils and/or time to cook their own meals? Its shocking that they figured this out all on their own. It seems their in as good a position as ... well, Domino's and all the other services that offer pretty much the same thing.
I'm not sure how 'saturated market' is a good position to be in.
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Food delivery service is popular with a population of people which generally don't own cars or have the equipment, utensils and/or time to cook their own meals? Its shocking that they figured this out all on their own.
Except it isn't food delivery, it's food ordering. The delivery is still the responsibility of the restaurant. They've simply added a layer to the front end of the process that means that the restaurant doesn't have to pay someone to talk on the phone taking orders. Clean, simple. Fewer errors. Quick. Win win win.
It seems their in as good a position as ... well, Domino's and all the other services that offer pretty much the same thing.
The closest Dominos comes to this is what little they copy from Little Caesar's. I think Dominos does this now, but Little Caesar's had learned that they can make money by stocking pre-made pizza
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I'd say good market for delivery is a huge reason why. Usually a campus has a higher densities of potential customers. Students studying and don't want to take a break to get it on their own or go to a dining hall. Or don't have a car and don't want to walk/take the bus/ride their bike/whatever. Or their car is parked on the opposite side of campus where the student parking is at. Or the
Wha... ? (Score:4, Interesting)
They do not claim to be the restaurant, they claim to be a courier service. They mention what the restaurant provides, and they create a method to allow one to use school-food-accounts to pay for it. The restaurant and thus the school still gets paid.
Then there are somewhat generic words like "Brown" and "Spicy With". I am curious as to how the school could hold on to "Spicy With" when that's a description, in the same fashion that Apple got denied trademark on "iPad Mini" because it's a description, not a name...
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In addition you note that school food account is used to pay. These are often paid by their parents,so it open the school up to the most dreadful thing, parent phone calls. One imagines th
In other words (Score:2)
The university was angry about somebody who did something to drive business to their restaurant and moreover, did it for free. Sue them!
Will they sue the phone system and google for connecting them?
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In exchange for the students giving their ID information to a third party. How is this different than a phising scam, really?
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The same amount of information that is available at just about every business around a major campus that has student discounts or other reasons for looking at a ID.
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Yeah, but those businesses all went through the approval process to get access to the ID system and are accessing it via the proper channels. It sounds like this CrunchButton website is just storing account credentials and then pretending to be the student so they can place orders in their name. It's obvious why the school would have an issue with that.
Suppose I create a business called "CashButton" that will transfer $100 from your bank to paypal with just a single button click, provided you just give me
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I am curious as to how the school could hold on to "Spicy With" when that's a description...
But it's really not. Ask yourself, what does it describe? Going to your example, an "iPad mini" is clearly a small iPad--from the name you know what it is, because the name described it. But you certainly can't tell what a "Spicy With" is from the name. What kind of bread, meat, condiments? No clue--we expect the sandwich will be spicy to some degree, but that's it.
That said, most of Brown's complaints are complete bullshit. There is no law, none whatsoever, against reselling food. Nor is there any law rest
Recipes are not copyrightable (Score:2)
They're simply a list of ingredients [copyright.gov]
So you're free to make a SpicyWith. (Unless they have a trademark on SpicyWith, which is again unlikely as descriptions are not allowed)
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It doesn't really have anything to do with "Brown" or 'Spicy With" but rather the fact that they make it seem like they have a partnership with Brown and Brown's food service. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm curious to know what legal grounds Brown has to stand on.
Your first sentence is the answer to your second sentence. You aren't allowed to advertise that you have a relationship with a company (or some similar organization) when you don't have such a relationship. I haven't looked at the details of this case, so I can't say who's right or wrong, but that seems to have been the complaint.
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"2011 Chevrolet Malibus! Still under factory warranty! Dozens to choose from! $299 a month!" This from a third-party used car dealer ad on TV. Most likely off-rentals.
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Student "Meal Service Accounts" may be the issue. (Score:2)
.
Here's an update from Brown University's student newpaper blog article from April 2nd [blogdailyherald.com] about the "revamping of the Spicy-With delivery" service from CrunchButton. It mentions that CrunchButton is now sourcing the sandwich from Mirano Grill [miranogrill.com] which performs the delivery function.
.
It appears that "Jo's", the original source and supplier of "Spicy With" for crunch-button's one-button app is an official Brown University f
Say (Score:1)
What kind of people do this?
Are they happy, where do they live, how do they look, how is their hm, sexlife?
That would be really interesting to find out.
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Yup.. I agree. Seems this would be a great opportunity for Brown to reel in this idiot and make a statement with its actions.
Re:Which part has the university's name (Score:5, Funny)
I really don't see how this could be any clearer.
Re: (Score:2)
Nice work@round [mailto]. Now I just need to stop my browser's text editor from ch@nging [mailto] the words into m@ilto [mailto] links.
Priorities (Score:2)
Remember when higher education was concerned with, well, education, instead of "branding"?
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Frankly, I don't remember.
"Higher" education has always been a business. The "public" version is a business as well, they just have the added convenience of padding their profits with taxpayer money.
Without sizzle and marketing, how else do you convince [the parents of] a 17-year old to go into $200K in debt to get a degree in Fine Art?
For now it looks like they may have to (Score:1, Funny)
Brown bag it for a while.
Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
Re:For now it looks like they may have to (Score:4, Funny)
asshole. Edward von Gerichten is now on the phone with every brown bag manufactuer in North America threatening trademark infringement. It's cashing in on "their good name."
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I would think they'd be more pissed at Brown logistics or UPS for implying that the school is a training center for truck drivers and deliverymen.
so call it "Shit University" and keep going (Score:2)
and then if Brown decides their name is "shit" and sues, it can be tossed out because the university's high rollers made the association themselves.
The Amazing Brown Note Generator! (Score:2)
Sandwich Man (Score:2)
This is, most likely, a case of Brown having its own service and not wanting the competition.
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It wasn't even a "reselling" situation or even making money on delivery, it was a conduit to their own services as I understand it.
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It's also worth noting that they were selling food from on campus concessionary services.
Ah. Most of these are cash cows for the universities. Perhaps the concern here is that Crunchbutton would obviate the need for their dining halls, and then once the delivery business was well-established they'd start working with outside food providers, thereby eliminating the need for Brown's dining services cartel.
Finding some weak legal means to make threats may be the cheapest way to head-off such competition.
Unlikely scenario (Score:5, Funny)
Brown University sues Crunchbutton.
Crunchbutton seeks external help.
UPS sues Brown University over the "Brown" trademark.
Brown University drops lawsuit against Crunchbutton, with public apologies.
UPS drops lawsuit against Brown University, with a note saying "We'll be watching. By the way your name is now Blue University".
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Duke sues UPS over "Blue."
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And then IBM gets involved.
Okay unless they deliver... (Score:2)
Okay unless they deliver the Spicy With!
How is this bad news? (Score:1)
So the university that "really encourages entrepreneurship" has managed to get the entrepreneur free national publicity by threatening (but not actually filing, to date) a lawsuit. I feel like a tool just for having read the article.
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IP is where we really need deregulation (Score:2)
It's trendy in some circles to complain of excessive government regulation interfering with business, but intellectual property is where it really happens. Sometimes it seems like any entrepreneur or innovation can be stopped cold by the legal burden of defending intellectual property.
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Won't be easy since it's wrapped up in international law and how all international patents are honored.
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That's not true about patents. You need to file in every jurisdiction you want protection in.
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Patents are covered by the WTO and software patents are explicitly treated just like any other. That's the problem. The international community has to come behind a new set of laws that can get passed. You can be sure that China will have issues with vigorous enforcement of dedicated software patent laws.
That lawyer should be fired. (Score:2)
I think it's pretty clear that this isn't going to go well for Brown. They'll get nothing but bad publicity from this, so why on earth was this lawyer allowed to write a C&D letter? He should have at least checked first with Brown's marketing department - or any department - if it's okay to threaten a small business that's popular with students for no gain to the the university.
Do they sue UPS? (Score:2)
"What can Brown do for you?"
What can Color C0:M60:Y72:K98 do for you?
Super Critical Details Are Super Effective (Score:3, Informative)
Critical facts missing form the summary: The restaurant and sandwiches are owned by the university. This is not about Brown as a trademark.
Rosenblatt says he complied with these demands. On Dec. 12, he wrote an e-mail back to von Gerichten, saying as much. But the lawyer wrote back the next day, saying he ,b>still saw Brown’s product listed on Crunchbutton’s Web page and that there were indications that the campus delivery service would resume (as well as a “defamatory” statement involving liver damage). Rosenblatt wrote back disputing that there was any indication that delivery of “Spicy With” would continue, and apologizing for what he called a joke (which he said was “made in poor taste”).
Meanwhile, in late February, Crunchbutton started working with a Providence restaurant, off campus, to sell and deliver the equivalent of a “Spicy With” sandwich— “except much fresher and tastier,” says Rosenblatt.
So, rather than simply complying and ending the story there. They chose to temporarily comply and make fun of the product and circumstance. This raised the lawyer's ire, rather than diffusing the situation. Crunchbutton then responded with a lame attempt of an excuse. As if that wasn't enough, they then tried to launch another product that (whether or not is actually infringing) is a clear attempt to circumvent rights that Crunchbutton already accepted by their prior faux claims of compliance.
It is clear by their actions that Crunchbutton is willfully attempting to "ingringe", which will not put them in a favorable light when judgment comes. The only real question is if they can prove that there is CLEARLY no infringement or rights being held.
Re:Super Critical Details Are Super Effective (Score:4, Insightful)
"infringe" on what?
App was making it easy for people to order a sandwich from Brown's cafeteria. Somehow Brown thought that was offensive and something to be stopped.
App makers respond by making it easy for people to order a similar sandwich from a different restaurant not run by Brown University. University goes apoplectic, presumably offended that the app maker didn't go out of business immediately.
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But what are they infringing on? They are selling Brown's sandwich. They are telling people they are selling Brown's sandwich. Brown is making full profit from selling that sandwich. First Sale says I can resale it. Fair use seems to imply I can indicate it was Brown's. So what is the actual problem?
Not to mention that it's not possible to patent or trademark a list of ingredients.
Expects... (Score:2)
So is that what makes this newsworthy? Post an article when at least the lawsuit has been filed, or better yet when it has been ruled upon. Right now, who cares?
Sigh.. (Score:2)
What has Brown done for you lately?
"Spicy with" recipe? (Score:2)
I propose a new sandwich ... (Score:2)
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suedo sue me a sandwich
$ man suedo
SYNOPSIS
Obtain privileges by using a court
INVOCATION
Unfortunately by telling you how to invoke this command we would open ourselves as target. Please contact your lawyer for more information.
SEE ALSO
court(8), lawyer(8)
Speculation (Score:3)
1. The lawsuit is based on the student entrepreneur's "feeling", a less credible source cannot possible exist.
2. What he did is called piggybacking, businesses will go to great lengths to prevent it, in this case the business was owned by the university.
Don't get me wrong, they could've let him continue on in good faith, but it was probably inconveniencing them somehow, or the lawyer's a real asshole.
no entrepreneurship (Score:1)
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English, BrownWith, do you Spicy it?