Major UK Retailers Mislabel Windows RT As Windows 8 106
Barence writes "Major British retailers such as Argos and Tesco are mis-selling Windows RT devices as Windows 8 PCs, PC Pro has discovered. The confusion over Microsoft's ARM-based version of Windows could lead to consumers buying the wrong machines, and the wrong software to go with them. Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS."
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Of course Argos recommend Norton Mobile Security. The box is made of a much tougher card and helps the back of your device's display stay uptight when the hinge starts to fail.
Whats the difference? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whats the difference? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Whats the difference? (Score:4, Informative)
Windows RT doesn't even have the desktop mode and locks you into a walled garden of Windows Store apps.
It has a desktop mode.
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For a few office apps only so no that doesn't count.
Indeed [xda-developers.com].
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Funny but that list is mostly emulators to connect to other servers so that you may actually be able to work (VNC clients, Putty, X emulation, etc..). A good chunk of those are *Nix utilities emulators like VIM.
I'm sorry, but in 2013 anyone touting Quake 2 as a port is laughable.
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Windows RT indeed has a desktop.
It has Windows Explorer.
It has Internet Explorer.
It has Control Panel.
It has Microsoft Office 2013.
And they're all so close to the Windows 8 versions that if I showed them to you, you'd think I was using a Windows 8 (non-RT) device.
Quit spreading lies.
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Unless you want crazy 'enterprise' features like "Office Macro support" or "Domain Authentication"....
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Obviously there are differences and RT isn't for everyone.
Does that justify spreading lies about it on Slashdot? Come on. I realize it's cool to bash Microsoft here, but this is a bit much.
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Maybe MS can upgrade The Button into Do what I Want in a service pack. Maybe the horse can learn to sing.
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So I wonder what in the 9 levels of hell you're doing to make it run so badly.
I think he made the terrible mistake of not installing a custom shell right off the bat. The gall of some people...
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This is why I'm not touching Win 8 with a barge pole. The OS should work out of the box without me having to install additional add ons just to get it to behave in a comparatively sane way.
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The difference is that you can't install any legacy or mainstream software on the RT version, and what you can install all has to come through the Microsoft "App Store"- so no more downloading random bits of software from anywhere you like on the internet.
Both of those things suck quite a bit on their own without even needing to invoke the horridness of Metro. Yes it's comparable with the experience on an iPad I suppose, but certainly not what someone would expect if they were buying what they thought was n
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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No command line at all?
Seems the same as Win 7 to me: win key + 'cmd' + enter. cmd.exe is where it always was on Win 7.
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Except I can walk over and yank the keyboard out of your Win 7 machine and you won't have ANY problems
Opening the command prompt is a pretty pointless task if you don't have a keyboard, but regardless of that i'm not particularly concerned about being able to continue to open programs when somebody has ripped out my keyboard.
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Window RT (Score:5, Funny)
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No problems with Norton Mobile Security (Score:2, Funny)
I suspect Norton Mobile Security will not perform any worse on RT or 8 as it does on iOS or Android.
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I suspect Norton Mobile Security will not perform any worse on RT or 8 as it does on iOS or Android.
Arguably, it'd perform better since there'd be no slow down!
Seriously... (Score:2)
Who didn't see this coming? Hands up, anyone? No?
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Argos is a general household good retailer, not a tech specialist. They sell just about everything - furniture, toys, kitchenware, appliances.
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This is news?
The box clearly states what device it is.
The device clearly states what it is.
A consumer that can't/won't read the box probably has no need for a specific model.
All they likely want is web and email and games.
People who know what they want usually read the box at least.
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You sit around and wait a few minutes for the goods to be picked out of the small warehouse at the back, and then you leave with your goods. You don't see the box until you've paid for it and left.
Admittedly I've never been to Argos.
So its not mail order, right?
You go there, look at a catalog or screen, then they HAND IT TO YOU, and you leave WITHOUT checking?
Seriously, who does that for something costing this much?
Really? (Score:2)
So big box retailers aren't good places to go for computer advice?
I'd be shocked if I haven't heard so many blatant falsehoods coming out of the mouths of people in these stores -- they're often clueless about the products, and more worried about up-selling you to Monster Cable or something.
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Reality doesn't seem to be a strong suite of at least some Britons. Like the Prime Minister [telegraph.co.uk].
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I think you meant suit. A strong suite would be a sofa made from purest diamondium.
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I think you meant suit. A strong suite would be a sofa made from purest diamondium.
Pah! My diamondillium will beat your diamondium any day!
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So big box retailers aren't good places to go for computer advice?
I'd be shocked if I haven't heard so many blatant falsehoods coming out of the mouths of people in these stores
I don't think you know Argos (in the UK anyway). They cannot be accused of giving advice because basically they do not say anything about what they sell.
You go in, choose an item from the catalogue at one of the booths, enter its number into a terminal, put in your credit card to pay, then wait 5-10 minutes until your item comes up on a screen as ready for collection. You then go to a counter and someone (this is the only human contact) who knows absolutely nothing about what is in the box, and makes n
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Wow. No, I have never encountered that form of retail, and I don't think I'd be inclined to unless they're a lot cheaper than anywhere else and I knew exactly what I was buying.
For that kind of service, I'd just order on-line.
MSFT should have made the OS look different (Score:2)
MSFT should have made the OS look different enough that there wouldn't be this confusion on the tablet side and rejection on the desktop side.
For Example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS
The mislabeling of the Windows machine has nothing to do with this "example" of how the mislabeling is a problem. If it only runs on Android and iOS, the RT/8 label makes no difference as the software doesn't run on anything that says "Windows" in the name.
I'd love to jump on the bandwagon of merchant-bashing since they don't know an RT from their asshole, but that's a tough sell when the article lambasting them makes examples that don't benefit their case at all, but instead make the argument that whoever wrote this can't grasp the idea of simple examples any more than UK retailers can grasp that RT and 8 are different operating systems/
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The point is that there are two problems with Argos's listing for that Samsung slab.
1. The describe it as running Windows 8, when it runs Windows RT. People will buy it expecting to be able to run normal Windows software on it, and will be disappointed.
2. They encourage people to buy Norton Mobile Security with it. That program won't install on either Windows RT or Windows 8. They claim it will work on Android and iOS. I struggle to understand how it will install on a non-jailbroken iDevice, or how it
Re:For Example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have called it 'Windows', then people wouldn't have expected it to run Windows software.
Do you really think they wouldn't have the same problem if it said 'Windows RT' instead of 'Windows 8'? How many non-tech users do you know who have any idea that a computer running 'Windows' might not run Windows programs?
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God I hate Metro...
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The name isn't the problem. There wasn't significant confusion between the Windows CE and 95/98 or Windows Mobile and XP/7.
That's because one ran on a desktop and one ran on a phone, and no-one in their right mind wanted a phone that ran Windows.
Now you have two tablets running 'Windows', yet only one actually runs Windows programs.
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Well, that was primarily because nobody *used* Windows CE or Windows Mobile.
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Well, that was primarily because nobody *used* Windows CE or Windows Mobile.
Acer did, for sat-navs. Others probably did too.
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Funny. Calling it "Windows" wasn't a problem when they supported CPUs other than the Intel instruction set in years gone by.
But then again, those versions of Windows were marketted at Engineers, not the general public.
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I understand the point they were trying to make, just pointing out that their example itself was a mistake - an improper example of the improper labeling done by the retailer. You mentioned that the slab they are selling Norton Mobile Security with fell prey to this 8/RT mislabeling. That's what the point of the headline and summary are until you get to the whole iOS/Android bit - bringing that in doesn't sell the point of mislabeling, but it does make the retailer appear doubly idiotic.
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People from the UK and Ireland will certainly know what Argos is. For everyone else, you can order various things from a catalogue, either in-store or online, visit the store, and the stuff gets sent from the warehouse to the front desk by conveyor belt for you to pick up. They claim they sell more iPads than anyone else in the UK, including Apple.
Blame Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
They want a similar look and feel to get people to start thinking of windows as being the same thing regardless of platform. They desperately want to embrace Apple's app store market, get rid of legacy software and get people to stop thinking of windows as only being for 'computers'.
The means to achieve this end is to make the different versions of windows look and feel the same to the 'average' person on the street - not the tech types. The result is that you have devices that for all intents and purposes look just like actual Windows 8 devices. The net result is that the store, which has average people and not technical people working in it, got confused.
It's a little bit like having two display cases of oranges, both look like oranges, both feel like oranges and both are labeled 'orange'. It's only if you pay careful attention, /and/ know enough to know better that you realize the difference between "Orange 8" and "Orange RT". The lay person doesn't pay that much attention or know enough to know better and Microsoft damn well knows it.
Re:Blame Microsoft (Score:5, Informative)
Here is a side by side of the two versions of the Surface [blogspot.com] I found with a quick Google search. Without reading the descriptions can you tell which one is which simply by looking at them? There are differences, and if you know what to look for you can tell them apart. However for the lay person who plays with one they simply aren't going to do so.
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but the EU and others will not like the app store lock in and app store censorship
Which would explain why they've slammed Apple (whose tablet marketshare is many times that of MS) for doing just that.
Oh, wait...
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So, in other words, you don't like any of the things that make Windows 8 different from Windows 7. And I would agree with that.
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I like the new task manager. Once you install the free app Classic Shell, Windows 8 becomes an improved Windows 7 rather than a marketing platform for Modern apps.
Yeah, you know, I'm going to have to try that, in order to preserve intellectual honesty. I have a touchscreen laptop running Win8 pro that I'm looking to give away, as Win8 does nothing for me and it's too much trouble to reimage it with Win7. (Besides, the touch screen is pretty much worthless in Win7 anyway.) But before I do that, I need to install Classic Shell and reevaluate, or lose the right to bitch about it.
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If you can tell me a few of the "extra steps" you're taking in Windows 8, I'll be happy to suggest keyboard or mouse shortcuts that will make you happy.
.... and nothing of value was lost? (Score:1)
Just saying.
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It just adds to the confusion, making 8 even more of a disaster than it already was.
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It just adds to the confusion, making 8 even more of a disaster than it already was.
So it's a win :)
Open the desktop up to third party developers (Score:2)
Personally, I'd want to open the desktop to third party developers and just call it Win8 for ARM, just like what NT for Alpha was called.
Only UK? (Score:1)
Newegg labeled their invoices for Win8, windows 8 RT. But according to them the RT was for the "ReTail" version. Created a lot of confusion.
Come on, Tesco! (Score:2)
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Over here, slices of pressed, boiled horse meat have been marketed as "Hamburger meat" for decades. Not really foul play, but anyway ...
Wat? (Score:2)
Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS
Well, some would say that being unable to install Norton is probably a good thing...
However a quick check (http://us.norton.com/norton-mobile-security) reveals that 'Mobile Security' for 'Android & iOS' rather unsurprisingly does not work on *any* version of Windows. Well, no shit.
Now, one could perhaps forgive the people at Argos making this kind of dumb mistake, but the Slashdot Eds?
Perhaps a car analogy next time, guys...
What amazes me is the price! (Score:2)
These tablets are being offered for sale at £549 (US $834.32) [argos.co.uk] and £634 (US $963) [tesco.com] respectively. The Kindle Fire HD costs from £159 [amazon.co.uk], the Google Nexus 10 costs from £319 [google.com], while the Apple iPad costs from £399 [apple.com]. Even if there were nothing else wrong with Windows RT, trying to sell tablets for between 150% and 350% of the price of the comparable market leaders was never going to work.
As it is, if you actually want a Windows RT tablet for some reason, you've got to know that there's go
How do you tell the difference? (Score:1)
Of course they do (Score:2)
And it's not ups, or "my bad" - it's done deliberately, because people avoid Windows RT like a fire. Otherwise they would not simply sell.
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Linux has the same confusion. Ubuntu to Android, all labeled as Linux.
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No confusion whatsoever, one is GNU/Linux, the other barely Linux.
Stallman was right AGAIN.