Browser Choice May Affect Your Job Prospects 374
krygny sends this quote from The Economist:
"The internet browser you are using to read this blog post could help a potential employer decide whether or not you would do well at a job. How might your choice of browser affect your job prospects? When choosing among job applicants, employers may be swayed by a range of factors, knowingly and unknowingly. ... Evolv, a company that monitors recruitment and workplace data, has suggested that there are better ways to identify the right candidate for job. ... Among other things, its analysis found that those applicants who have bothered to install new web browsers on their computers (such as Mozilla's Firefox or Google's Chrome) perform better and stay in their posts for 15% longer, on average."
Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Specifically, both being able to install a browser and staying in your job longer could easily be caused by a third factor, namely not being an idiot.
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:5, Funny)
Additionally, having 5 web browsers installed and triple-booting operating systems might mean you get board easily and won't stick around at the job as long. I mean, still being on IE6 does show incredible staying power and loyalty, right?
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:4, Interesting)
Specifically, both being able to install a browser and staying in your job longer could easily be caused by a third factor, namely not being an idiot.
You can't rule out a direct correlation - like staying in the same job makes you bored enough to start pissing about with different browsers
Re:Correlation is not causation (Score:4, Insightful)
Do we really want to eliminate all human judgment? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the article, "Collectively, such findings suggest that algorithms and analysis of "big data" can provide a powerful tool to help employers sift through job applications. They might also make things fairer, by taking the personal prejudices of recruiters out of the equation."
In other words, forget about applying individual judgment regarding the fitness of an applicant, let's use cookie-cutter search patterns instead. It'll be fine, you see, because it's done on "big" data, which everyone knows is way better than "little" data.
The idea that this somehow takes "personal prejudice" out of the process is just laughable, of course. Following this program would do just the opposite: set the one-size-fits-all personal prejudices of search pattern writers into concrete, and then amplify it 10,000 times over with the aid of a computer.
I am daily astounded by the tenacity of the idea that using a computer to do something somehow makes it less "personal".
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It's exchanging one person's personal prejudice for another's. However, it's really a good thing: the personal prejudices of recruiters are stupid; if they can replace those with the personal prejudices of hiring managers, the companies would be much better off. The problem in hiring, for many companies, is that hiring managers (the guy you end up working under every day if you get the job, the guy who actually knows what you do, and probably did something similar when he was more junior) is separated fro
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If A and B happen together just through merely good/bad luck (or because the researcher "carefully" cherry-picked his sample...), then it's just correlation.
Honest salesmen less effective (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article "A study of 20,000 workers showed that more honest people tend to perform better and stay at the job longer. For some reason, however, they make less effective salespeople."
Anybody surprised by this?
Re:Honest salesmen less effective (Score:5, Funny)
Reminds me of a cartoon I saw once. It showed a hiring manager explaining to a rejected job applicant: "no, actually your resume is quite impressive. The accomplishments at your previous employers are quite remarkable, and your commitment to your community service projects is commendable. But we are really looking for an unscrupulous ass-kissing minion to fill this position".
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From the article "A study of 20,000 workers showed that more honest people tend to perform better and stay at the job longer. For some reason, however, they make less effective salespeople."
Anybody surprised by this?
Once upon a time, I was attempting to correct some misunderstandings a salesman had about a product I'd worked on, and he stopped me, saying that knowing the product too well would hamper his ability to sell it. I wasn't quite -- and I'm still not -- sure whether this was a dig at what he believed was poor product quality, or an admission that just making stuff up to please the customer worked better than the truth.
Either way, the company's long since out of business, so I'll probably never know.
Re:Honest salesmen less effective (Score:5, Interesting)
It' prevent the sales people from getting to technical.
Once that happens, the costumer will ask more technical question he can't answer.
For example: If you go to buy a car and the sales man talks about horsepower and torque: Ask him what the difference is. then watch him squirm. Afterwards you can drop another 1000 form what you where going to offer.
And the one's who run IE (Score:2, Funny)
retire or are overdue for retirement...
Re: (Score:2)
retire or are overdue for retirement...
You mean "And the one's who run IE6..."
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retire or are overdue for retirement
Not sure about that. People still using, say, IE6, browse obviously from work, ie from a retarded (literally) company - and since they want to leave, they're probably valuable candidates.
sure probably a correlation (Score:4, Insightful)
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Rinse and repeat.
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I've always assumed that the ones with the best trading models don't publish them.
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Or publish alternative ones timed to push the value of the real ones at just the right times.
And if you run Lynx (Score:5, Funny)
They'll only hire you as a sysadmin
Re:And if you run Lynx (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet you still have to submit your resume as a .doc file, though.
Re: (Score:2)
mv resume.txt Resume\ \ \ .DOC.txt
Re:And if you run Lynx (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, man. That drove me crazy. I had gone out of my way to convert my resume to a very nice and organized and readable and attactable format using LaTeX. Maybe I could have done better if I'd paid one of those services $1000 to tell me how to subtly color and place things better. But this beat the hell out of my earlier Word version.
Then some head-hunter INSISTS that I give him a Word version because that's all his database will take. Sheesh. There's just no quick and easy way to do this, so I had to start with the original LaTeX source and make a new one that still looked lousy compared to the finished PDF.
I'd like to think that my 16 years of industry experience and excellent research record in grad school were deciding factors. But I can assure you that the appearance of my CV make a big impact. Mind you, part of appearance is making it pleasant to read and easy to interpret.
Your knowledge of basic psychology and a minimal familiarity with cognitive engineering IS TRULY an important factor in hiring and long-term job performance in many professions. Even if the employers don't realize they are considering this, they are considering it. You're screwing yourself if you don't consider the human factor in how your appearance on paper is going to be interpreted.
Re:And if you run Lynx (Score:5, Interesting)
In this market? Are you serious? I didn't leave any stone unturned. Not counting the various head-hunters, I applied for nearly 150 different academic positions. And probably around 50 industry positions. I got maybe a dozen responses, a few phone interviews, six real interviews, and four offers. (In retrospect, if I got 4 offers out of 6 in-person interviews, I'm actually kindof impressed with myself there. And I didn't even think my presentation was the most polished I'd ever seen.)
I came into this knowing that I'm trying to get a new job in a horrible economy. My CV had to stand out in both form AND content. I had to apply for absolutely everything out there, academic and industry. And head-hunters are just another way of looking for jobs. Why would I want to cut off that avenue of search? Sure, the probability of getting a good job that way is LOW, but it's not zero, and I'd been dealing with nothing but low probabilities the whole way along.
Oh, and one benefit to contacting multiple headhunters is that I DID get really useful constructive feedback on my CV that I took seriously and implemented.
People want to bitch about the effort involved in applying. What choice do we have? You have to at least slightly customize every application. I spent several hours a day for weeks and weeks, in two waves, applying for jobs. It's a statistics game for the employer, and it's a statistics game for the applicant, and I was under no illusion otherwise. I consider myself very fortunate that the move was only 500 miles away and the university (my new employer) paid for the move.
BTW, there are some things that really suck about moving to Upstate New York. Weird laws, lag payroll, waiting period for medical insurance. My wife was denied a drivers license for changing her name when we got married, until I got the local legislator involved (this is sexual discrimination). I have a long laundry list of things that really irritate me about being a NYS employee. But I try not to bitch too much, because I'm EXTREMELY FORTUNATE to have a job that I REALLY LIKE in an economy this horrible. Although I do want to take SOME credit for it, because I worked really damn hard to get here. A lot of people who bitch about problems finding jobs really just haven't worked very hard.
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No because real sysadmins use curl.
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No because real sysadmins use curl.
mmm ... curl, vi and bash; the ideal browsing environment
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Real sysadmins telnet to port 443
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I don't think a sysadmin who doesn't know about elinks is that hot, either.
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They'll only hire you as a sysadmin
Tell 'em you use it so you can read the fnords.
Do you get extra points for multiple browsers (Score:2)
most dev people have to do cross browser debugging so they install at least 4... do they get extra points?
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No. They get a warning from their boss that they should stop wasting time because IE is the corporate standard.
Nobody ever got fired for... (make that "hired"!) (Score:3)
.
Or, as many other posters have pointed out, being able to replace the stock software installed on your computer means you've got some smarts at least. IMHO, installing a full GNU/Linux distro on your system must make you a genius (not that Apple "genius bar" kind of genius either!)
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Or, to an H.R. drone, unqualified because there isn't a "Microsoft" in there somewhere.
Yes... they think that way. If they can think this way because you don't use Office and DARE to send your resume out in PDF format, they can easily think this way about an Open Source distro.
I had a recruiter dress me down about this before. He had never heard of "Open Office" and I am not sure he had ever heard of Linux, either.
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IMHO, installing a full GNU/Linux distro on your system must make you a genius
Which would not be a good thing. First, geniuses know more than their manager. Then, geniuses get bored easily and will spend their "work" time on more interesting things... And finally, geniuses know how to set up a VPN or ssh tunnel from work to their system at home (or their system at whatever association they volunteer "their" time for sysadmin).
I use Lynx! (Score:2)
Time for HR to take Old Yeller out back and "process" his application.
subversive (Score:4, Funny)
If your browser string looks like this:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0
You're not a corporate believer and should never have a job... ever...
-- your typical H.R. idiot.
Re:subversive (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing. Because you couldn't have gotten your online application put into their proprietary system.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Customer User Agents (Score:2)
And job candidates who customize their user agents are smart asses who will probably hack all of your systems.
Random much? (Score:3)
Why is it that in every field you always see a jackass like that coming up with totally unrelated methods to weed people out. Why not have them do the actual job you want and see how they perform. Even if you have too many applicants you can just have a first come, first serve policy, and based on the test of the first group, the best person gets the job.
Re:Random much? (Score:5, Informative)
Short answer: because the people doing the screening have absolutely no idea of the skill set that's actually required to perform the job. All they know is that the hiring manager supplied them with a laundry list of things that Joe did for the company before he left -- likely because of boredom and there being no chance for career advancement.
Long answer: Because they'd have to actually hire you, run you through the onboarding process, and put you in the position to evaluate your performance. In the meantime, the recruiter has been paid 25-30% of your salary as a fee. If you don't work out, the company would have to fight to get their fee back. My understanding is that many -- most? -- recruiters agree to refund that fee if the candidate turns out to be a complete bozo, it's still a hassle and the employer would, I'm sure, prefer to avoid if they can, hence the ridiculous requirements with insane years of experience, specific software versions, and so on. The downside is that the hiring manager winds up going through a much, much longer hiring process -- along with all the other staffers who participate in the interview process who are, frankly, getting more than a little pissed off over how long they've been doing Joe's job while the hiring process drags on and on. For some reason, nobody at the company seems to notice this. Or they realize there's a problem but don't give a damn because it doesn't affect the HR person's job.
I saw an open position at a company where a friend's ex works advertised for over a year. Imagine what that's doing to the workload of people who are filling in for that open position. I never did learn from my friend whether they actually filled that position or whether they just divvied up the work for everyone else to do and saved the company the salary/benefits. Personally, if someone has all the years of experience and broad exposure to all the hardware and software that employers -- or HR people -- are demanding nowadays, I'd be wondering why they aren't looking for a higher level job and not a simple parallel move where the only thing that's changing is the company that's paying them. "Wow! We're impressed that you did X, Y, and Z for your employer for 5-8 years. How would you like doing the exact same thing for us?" Doesn't sound so tempting to me.
But I sense we're drifting off the topic of browsers, aren't we. (heh heh)
Oh man. (Score:2)
What are we measuring here? Which browsers are best or whether people who care enough to take an extra step and fit themselves with the browser of their preference also care enough to do a better job?
They probably brush their teeth more often too and are more considerate lovers, if only of themselves.
I think we should be able to vote on what gets called a "study".
Re: (Score:2)
And when you get the job... (Score:5, Insightful)
...you find yourself stuck with IE6 on XP, and installing Firefox is a sackable offence.
I seriously disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
What about job seekers? (Score:4, Interesting)
Gosh, it's nice to know that my employer sees me as a good bet to stick around after I was hired. But I can remember having to resort to using my wife's Windows laptop to even apply for jobs at many companies because their damned web site would not render properly unless you used IE. I had found that company's jobs sites that employed a popular (*cough* Taleo *cough*) to run their job listings and application process were pretty bad with Firefox compatibility (making you re-enable all the add-on toys that many FF users turn off due to their annoyance factor and their security holes). The absolute worst, though, were the "homegrown" HR pages.
Aside: let's not even get into the requirement for a Word version of your resume when applying for a UNIX- or Linux-heavy position. Again, the wife's Windows laptop was handy since all the other computers in the house have been Microsoft-free for the last ten years or so. Saved me from having to schlepp over to the local public library with my resume on a USB drive just to make Word versions. The Word/Office files that are created from LibreOffice/OpenOffice are considerably larger than the same file created directly from MS-Word, sometimes larger than the company's upload limit. (Clever means of filtering out older, more experienced UNIX/Linux people with longer resumes?)
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Yes. Of all of the university HR systems on the planet, it's the one at YALE that won't work with anything other than IE.
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And i just created mine in plain text and gave it a .doc extension. Worked great for publishing to websites as well.
I can see this (Score:3)
I know damn well I would never hire or keep someone if they insisted on using IE 6.
Also, I have no tolerance to work for a company that forces IE 6 on me, so chances are I would quit before they get around to firing me.
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Congratulations. You're fired, before you get around to quitting. Seriously. As an employee, your role is to do the job required with the resources provided. If you cannot do so, or choose not to do so, you have no place in the workforce.
(You are free to offer your input, but a refusal to comply with reasonable demands placed by your employer indicates that you are likely to present ongoing issues for your employer. Demanding that employees use IE6, particularly if it is restricted to internal networks
working against themeselves (Score:2)
Interesting... (Score:2)
Considering that some of the most brilliant engineers I know still use some VERY antiquated technology and software, but have customized and adapted it over the years to integrate with newer technology to do things that no off-the-shelf software can do.
Why hasn't this been posted yet? (Score:2)
What about those who let others install stuff? (Score:2)
"Among other things, its analysis found that those applicants who have bothered to install new web browsers on their computers"
How do they distinguish those who installed a new browser from those that let their boyfriends, brothers, friends, etc. install a new browser?
Re: (Score:2)
You couldn't have just said "between those who let someone else install it for them"? It had to be gendered?
Sure I could, but then you wouldn't start ranting right away. Where would the fun be?
In any case, who the hell cares? Have you ever tried to talk someone into using a new browser?
Perhaps my point was... What if the person who is currently using a non-standard browser is so oblivious of what's happening with the computing device that he/she simply hasn't realized that someone close to him/her has replaced standard browser with non-standard browser? I know a few of those... from both sexes.
How's that for a gender neutral paragraph? What about from a technological neutrality point of view? The fact I n
Browser huh? (Score:2)
Browser requirements to apply count too (Score:2)
If an employer required me to use IE to apply, I'd think long and hard whether it's really worthwhile. My current employer has adopted a new HR system which will soon require a Java applet to apply and if I wasn't already employed that might be enough to dissuade me. (Already working here, I know Java is non-existent internally, but as a new applicant, I'd assume it was a Java shop).
This research is based on Bull Fertilizer grounds (Score:2)
And for all we know, more than 1 browser, could also mean, less work, because being at your desk and producing isn't synonymous with being at your desk and browsing websites.
What about Mozilla's SeaMonkey web browser? (Score:3)
I am a rare one! :P
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you really feel you had to defend yourself?
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He does have a point. Just because IE is the mother of all evils does not mean that the premise of the article is true in all cases. Having said that, the latest version of IE is not the spawn of satan as it used to be but more of a me too browser. And on the Mac, well Safari just has a better browsing experience in general.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Funny)
"Did you really feel you had to defend yourself?" ...
Yes, because this is another transparent attempt to find pretexts on which to declare all US job appplicants to be "unqualified".
Save it for the interview .... if you get that far
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
He won't... that's the point.
This is just another arbitrary way to "weed out" candidates. You wonder why the screeching that "the U.S. has no qualified candidates" to do jobs... this is one of the reasons. We have H.R. people that roundfile applications because of their own lack of knowledge.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
They simply do not have the time, opportunity, or justification to hold a magnifying glass up to every candidate that applies for a position. It's up to you to ensure that there are no silly reasons for them to discard you out of hand.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
I take it you haven't dealt much with the type of people most companies hire for the Personnel department.
From the 3 gov't agencies, two non-profits and half-dozen private companies I've worked for as evidence, it seems that looking good in a tight dress is the major qualification.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Funny)
From the 3 gov't agencies, two non-profits and half-dozen private companies I've worked for as evidence, it seems that looking good in a tight dress is the major qualification.
What does that say about you? Personally, I think it would be distracting to work in an environment where all the guys run around in tight dresses all day.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:4, Funny)
I take it you haven't dealt much with the type of people most companies hire for the Personnel department.
From the 3 gov't agencies, two non-profits and half-dozen private companies I've worked for as evidence, it seems that looking good in a tight dress is the major qualification.
That's because, historically, personnel departments have been staffed by women and managed by men. And, surprise surprise, the male managers chose attractive women when given a choice.
Nowadays, of course, personnel departments are mostly managed by lesbians, so you still get the most attractive women being given preference.
It's just so unfair.
Not representative of my experience! (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't judge a book by its cover.
Here in Europe we've got plenty of women in all roles that look good in tight dresses, and most of them, including in HR, are also pretty good at their jobs. In HR, they're frequently better than men, (something to do with superior organisational and communication skills, I understand).
In my job, I've frequently had to deal with HR people for hiring. The main reason I've seen that stop them from recruiting good talent is the totally crap job/person descriptions they get from managers. The absolutely best results I ever got was when working with a stunningly-attractive lady who also had the brains to match. She asked me clear, precise questions about the requirements, which we formalised using standard tools her department had created, and within a few days her team had started to present pre-screened candidates, all of whom were a good fit for the job. This was my introduction to competency-based management, which works well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competency-based_management [wikipedia.org]
At the same time, others in the organisation were complaining about their inability to recruit. Maybe if they'd stopped staring at her bust, and worked as professionals instead, they'd have got better results?
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Don't judge a book by its cover.
I'll stop doing that the day you show me a good book with an orchid colored cover, depicting a well muscled bare chested man against a dark sky.
Seriously, I judge books by the cover a lot. In particular, "By New York Times Bestselling Author [...]" is a clear warning that I probably won't like it, and it panders to the masses.
Likewise, I - and you! - judge people all the time. We may not even realize that we're doing it, but we sure are. Maybe we judge people wrongly, but the stereotypes we have built up
Re:Loaded language? (Score:4, Funny)
What's wrong with tight dresses :)
They're hard to reach up under to scratch your balls.
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They simply do not have the time, opportunity, or justification...
THIS. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES
If someone doesn't know many employers use arbitrary methods to weed out hundreds, even thousands of applicants to something manageable that they can look at properly, they need to come back to reality
From a single typo to Times New Roman font, anything that has (and some have that no) statistical value (like, say, literally taking the second half of applicants and rejecting them), can and will be used. Only now I'm seeing companies use the "if you don't hear from us in X days,
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I'm half-owner of a small business. We recently had to go through the grind of hiring a new front desk person, a yearly task it seems. After a few days with a Craigslist posting, we had 70 or 80 resumes which we each had to read in our spare time. The first to go are those who can't follow a simple instruction (e.g., we get a resume only, but asked for resume and cover letter), then the ones with egregious grammar or spelling errors, or "WEIRd" capitalization patterns, and so forth. Sometimes it is rath
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a thorny issue.
No, it's not. Not at all.
I was tasked to review CVs for a Helpdesk position at a desirable corporation; as expected, my manager has thrown 121 CVs at my lap. That's nearly a whole stack of paper (500 pages) to look at.
But I read them ALL. Of course, I filtered many of them out. Of course, I had to take half of those home and work overtime to weed them out. And I spent my free time doing that. Why? Because I've been an applicant before and I know how much it sucks to not even get a "thank you, you're rejected" message back, and dealing with retarded HR personnel, and having your CV thrown to the garbage can only because it's the 11th entry and they will only look at first 10, etc., etc. And I loathed becoming part of that problem.
Looking at hundreds of CVs is a daunting task and there's nothing funny about it (well, apart from the occasional weird CV that makes you laugh), but the applicants have handed their trust to whoever reviews those CVs and I feel obliged to raise to their expectations.
My filtering methods are pretty simple: font doesn't matter, as long as it's not overly flashy (e.g. Chaplin Type); e-mail address is unimportant (I'm not hiring an e-mail address and a "professional" e-mail address can be interpreted as a sign of duplicity); 1-2 typos are acceptable (everyone makes mistakes). Unacceptable stuff: weird photos attached to CV, blatant lack of basic spelling (unless we're talking about a pure developer opening). Most important: whether the skillset fits the job requirements.
It's quite ironic that the expectations are that a CV should be extremely professional, but the methods used to weed out candidates are as unprofessional as it gets. Double standards, anyone?
As an applicant, I am weeding out responses from hiring companies. The person contacting you is an image of how the company works. If they impose a meeting time and date (especially on a very short notice), if their response is riddled with grammar and spelling mistakes, if they send you a message intended to someone else (yeah, that happened quite a few times), then I wouldn't feel right working for such a company. Unless, of course, their salary offer is outrageously large.
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Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sometimes it is rather arbitrary, such as: lives too far away, or uses an unprofessional sounding email address (for example: hotkitty@aol.com)
Is it the hotkitty or the aol part you find most unprofessional?
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Last year I have applied for a job (albeit in a much better market) and I made sure that my application looks nice, my cover letters have no gross grammar or spelling errors (even made a few friends proofread them) and are actually relevant to the information in the job offer.
So, LaTeX ftw! In the end I got four offers of five interviews I've agreed to take (and have rejected countless other interview offers). The hiring manager on a job I took is actually a LaTeX fan himself so he had immediately noticed m
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Sorry, but if a company cannot be assed to at least write you a "no sorry" letter TO AN EMAIL APPLICATION, they have problems. I make sure that every applicant gets an automated reply when they write to us, thanking them for their effort to mail us their resume. That's trivial to set up, an autoreply does that. It's equally easy to collect the bunch in a database, pick away the few that you want to interview then hit the red "reject" button sending a "sorry you didn't make it" reply.
A company that can't get
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Funny)
I stopped reading after "THIS."
It's juvenile. Please stop.
This.
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's exactly my problem, STATISTICS are used instead of fuckin' ASKING the guy that wants to hire. Because HR doesn't have an effin' clue what they're looking for. Not their fault, I don't want a security expert to work in HR, I want them to work here in MY crew!
I'm currently in exactly this spot. I want, need, crave, (insert word meaning "more than a 35 year old virgin wanna get laid") a good security person. I wrote down my requirements, then I heard what the sheik (ok, the CFO) is willing to part monthly with, lowered my requirements and handed them to HR. You know that I'd by now be willing to spend my spare time hiring, but I must not. HR is defending that turf quite vehemently.
So what I get for the interviews (where I may thankfully be present at least) is what remains after statistics butchered down my applicant pile. I want experts at assembler and networking protocols, and I get experts at Javascript and webdesign.
What the fuck?
By now I'm at the point where I spend more time down in HR than doing my job to keep them from tossing out candidates for some random reason that has NOTHING to do with the job that could at least qualify (it's not easy I tell you, people tend to know their worth when they're worth something...).
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Funny)
I throw out half of all applications without reading them.
I don't want to hire someone that's unlucky.
Whose luck are you measuring? (Score:4, Insightful)
Whose luck are you measuring? How do you know you are not throwing away your best candidate(s) because you are unlucky?
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How did "U.S." get into this and NickGnome's comments? It isn't present in the context at all, unless you're saying that people in the US have an unusual bias toward keeping distribution-default browsers, whereas non-US people are more likely to install something else.
"Scientists claim to have discovered a new species of pterodactyl, but this claim is really just a thinly veiled attempt to undermine OS/2." Such a statement would be paranoid unless you've got evidence that OS/2 was written by people who a
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Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
how many are there Mac users?
Its mostly aimed at windows user most likely.
If you happy with IE under winXP - you are probably lazy to educate self, ignoring a lot of facts and dont have or dont listen to friends with IT background. It can all say something about you. All of that is negative. pretty simple, right?
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Yes, becasue everyone can afford the latest computer.
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That's easy: buy a refurbished Dell Latitude and install Linux Mint (with GIMP) on it. Total price around $250-300. Plus you get a very good (for a laptop) keyboard, unlike the idiotic mushy keyboards that all Macs and other consumer laptops have.
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Multiple wifi antennas? Really? Every laptop model I've ever worked on (and that's a few dozen) that came with wifi out of the box had at least two separate antennas. Usually one goes up one side of the screen, and the other goes up the other side.
Photo editing software can be had for free.
Since you said sub $1,000 and the closest a 13" mac gets to that is $1,199 I'll use that model for comparison.
http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD101LL/A?#hardware [apple.com]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683 [newegg.com]
Re: (Score:3)
There's also the point that, in my opinion at least, IE has closed the gap with the other browsers quite a bit in recent years. I'd been using Firefox since 2004, but had grown increasingly irritated with a number of its quirks and foibles.
Got a new PC a couple of weeks ago and decided that was a good spur to check around and see how other browsers measured up. Having done so (and slightly through gritted teeth), I actually settled on IE.
Five years ago, somebody who was using IE was either ignorant or brows
Re:Loaded language? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, the IE developer toolbar (F12) is as effective as FireBug and the Chrome developer tools. Chrome is the only one that shows local storage (Indexed DB, WebSQL, etc.) easily, but they all show the loaded files, the network timing, cookies, allow breakpoints, inspect CSS, etc. The developer tools were an add-on in early versions, but has been integrated since version 8 I think.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
console.log behavior is rather different for objects. Seeing the string "[object object]" is nowhere near as useful as a tree-rendered outline of the object.
DOM inspectors exist for other desktop browsers (Score:2)
When I use Chrome, I can right click and inspect an element. How do I do that in IE?
Google ie dom inspector revealed a whole bunch of add-ons that provide similar functionality.
Re: (Score:2)
You can't do it from the right click menu, but you can do it with the developer tools open....
http://support.janova.us/entries/20181293-how-to-inspect-an-element-in-internet-explorer [janova.us]
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Netscape -- (Score:2)
Cloud Cakes (Score:2)
get back in your Hot Tub Time Machine
But be careful not to set it to the 803rd millennium [wikipedia.org] unless you want Morlocks stealing your hot tub.
And hoard Hostess Twinkies: they'll stop making them someday!
But by that time, you'll be able to download Twinkies from the cloud [hiconsumption.com].