One Boston Marathon Bomb Suspect Dead, Other At Large After Shootout With Police 1109
theodp writes "During the night, The Tech broke news that gunshots were reported at MIT near 32 Vassar Street (the Ray and Maria Stata Center for Computer, Information, and Intelligence Sciences), and one officer was shot and taken to Mass General Hospital. MIT's Emergency Information page also reports that injuries have been reported. Sadly, CNN is now reporting that the university police officer has died. Look for updates on Twitter."
The two suspects identified earlier as being behind the Boston Marathon bombings are believed to be responsible for this. They were found by police. One suspect, 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was killed in a shootout. The other suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, is still being pursued. The Associated Press reports that the two are believed to be from the Russian region near Chechnya. During the firefight, the suspects threw explosive devices at police. Public transit in Boston has been shut down, and hundreds of thousands of people have been asked to not leave their homes. Here are live feed for local TV news and emergency services audio. Police have been warned that the remaining suspect may have a suicide vest.
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice: "The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Will Box for Passport (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Will Box for Passport (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Will Box for Passport (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of what he's done, if he's done it, but I rather suspect that is a common experience for immigrants to the USA now, especially muslim immigrants whose backgrounds are poorly understood. It's merely honest.
Really? In my dorm there were students from all over the world, they ranged from outgoing to painfully shy, but none were friendless.
Re:Will Box for Passport (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I hope the FSB and CIA start working together on the 'Islam' problem.
Is that like the Jewish problem? Someone tried to take care of that a while back too.
Re:Will Box for Passport (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect that is a very common experience for immigrants of all backgrounds.
I don't think there is anywhere in the world more welcoming to immigrants than America. I am an American, but I lived much of my life abroad, and my kids were born overseas where they attended local (non-English) schools. When we moved back to America, my daughter was nervous about going to school, but when she came back home after the first day, she said she had already made several friends. The following weekend she was invited to a sleep-over.
About a third of my co-workers are immigrants, including several muslims. They fit in just fine, and they all have friends outside their ethnic group.
If this guy failed to make a single friend in ten years, then there is something seriously wrong with him. Blaming it on America is ridiculous.
Re:Will Box for Passport (Score:4, Insightful)
As an immigrant I can confirm that the US is pretty welcoming (so far). Especially when compared to the previous country I lived in, also as immigrant.
One thing I want to note though. The distinction between Americans and non-Americans, when they both live on US soil is stupid and pretty dangerous one to make. In US it is stupid because of a great cultural diversity, especially in California. It is dangerous because since the line is kinda blurry a lot of hate groups use it to push their agenda. Like this guy, for example. Whoever he does not like or understand, he labels them as "american". While he can make friends with other people, because they are "asians", "black", "mexicans", "canadians", "europeans" -- whatever label he chooses to assign to them.
I see similar behaviour in some other immigrants too. Prejudice is a pretty stupid thing and as any other kind of stupiditiy, pretty hard to deal with.
MIT (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like, from what I can gather from online media etc., that they were carrying explosives to plant around MIT. And it was campus security that first become suspicious. If this is the case, then thoughts are with the campus security officer that gave his life - a lot of students are probably a lot better off because of his bravery. Thoughts are with everyone in boston and hope this is over soon.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Insightful)
If this is the case, then thoughts are with the campus security officer that gave his life
Why aren't your thoughts with him anyway? Even if he was just pulling the guys over for driving too fast on campus the bottom line is still the same; he's a guy who's dead for just doing his job.
There are tons of crappy cops, yes. The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes. But the bulk of people enforcing the law are just looking to do the right thing, go home alive and enjoy life just as much as you and me. I believe it's a profession that gets a bad rap because there are plenty of abusive asses who are drawn to a job with the prospect of beating people down but I think there are many more who are drawn to the profession because they have an honest interest in serving and protecting.
Sorry if you didn't mean it that way but there are just so many people around here who are willing to look down on a cop just because he is a cop. No different a form of bigotry than any other.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Insightful)
There are tons of crappy cops, yes. The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes. But the bulk of people enforcing the law are just looking to do the right thing, go home alive and enjoy life just as much as you and me.
[citation needed]
People believe cops are bad because cops do so many bad things. They have not taken responsibility as a group and purged their ranks of bad cops, so people will continue to assume that every cop is a bad cop. This is the only rational assumption to make, because many of them are bad people, and they have power over you. Thus, you must be on your guard against bad cops, and you must assume that any cop interaction will go wrong.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:MIT (Score:4, Insightful)
Even though I think MANY cops are bad at their job, and abuse their authority, I actually think some are quite good at it. They are respectful and polite, and don't immediately assume because they are talking to you that you have done something wrong or you are a victim.
On the other end of the spectrum you get such gems as the officers who pull their service weapon during traffic stops because they think everyone wants to kill them because of the uniform.
Here's a hint for the bad cops: if you aren't a dick to everyone you interact with, most people don't want to kill you for doing your job.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Insightful)
I think there's merit to your post, but I substituded 'cop' for 'black guy' and your sounds bigoted to me. It may be important to generalize and stereotype, but take care to recognize it.
The (clear, obvious) difference is that no one is born a cop, and they can decide to stop being a cop. Another is that we take rights away from brown people, but we give more rights to people who wear a badge, though they have demonstrated that they are no more responsible than the general population.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Informative)
The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes.
OK, just stop this bullshit now.
MIT Campus Police are real police, recruited only from among real police departments, with lots of experience required before they can even apply to the department.
Re:MIT (Score:4, Informative)
The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes.
OK, just stop this bullshit now.
MIT Campus Police are real police, recruited only from among real police departments, with lots of experience required before they can even apply to the department.
Because of campus police like Lt. John Pike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident [wikipedia.org]
I'm not saying all campus police (or any other type for that matter) are bad, but one might not automatically assume they're good guys either.
Simple protesters were not pepper sprayed (Score:4, Informative)
Because of campus police like Lt. John Pike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident [wikipedia.org]
Your own link states that students *surounded* the police and *demanded* that those in custody be released. It further states that police ordered people to move and these people *refused*. What I recall from the full videos of the incident is that the police then pepper sprayed those people who refused to move and were *blocking* the path that the police wanted to use to exit the area.
This was *not* police simply walking up to protesters and pepper spraying them. These were people blocking an exit route as police were surrounded.
Campus police may be real cops .... (Score:5, Informative)
... The ratio of crappy versus good cops seems to go up when you're dealing with rent-a-cops and security, yes ...
Campus police may be real cops, especially so at state schools. At the University of California they are actually equivalent to state police and may patrol areas off campus with large concentrations of students. At my campus when a nearby bank was robbed the UC Police were the first on scene, confronting and containing armed robbers. When a local police officer was shot during a routine traffic stop one night, and the suspect fled into a nearby industrial park, the UC Police, the local police and the police from the neighboring town were searching and clearing the buildings in the park. I forget which department actually found the guy.
Re:MIT (Score:5, Interesting)
When the video footage of the Marathon Bombing started to be played, I pointed out to my wife that the it was a perfect example of the difference between the "average cop" and many people's perception of the average cop - the cops were the ones running TOWARD the explosions while everyone else ran AWAY.
Just something to keep in mind....
Pics from overnight live-tweeted (Score:5, Informative)
.
https://twitter.com/AKitz/status/325121071479156736/photo/1 [twitter.com]
.
https://twitter.com/akitz [twitter.com] = andrew kitzenberg's twitter site
.
supposedly, backpacks on Laurel Street where a police shoot-out occured. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3664323&cid=43490229 [slashdot.org]
Re:Pics from overnight live-tweeted (Score:5, Informative)
Gotta Love 4chan (Score:5, Insightful)
Reader Okian Warrior points out a related story worthy of notice:
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Dark skinned. He must be guilty. Basically 4chan, like anonymous, is simply a bastion of the socially immature taking vigilante justice into their own hands. Stoke the fire of society's fears and then claim innocence when someone acts on their "information".
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Gotta Love 4chan (Score:5, Insightful)
None of those news reports were front-page stories on a physically distributed newspaper identifying specific, vulnerable individuals, you ass.
Sexist!!!!!!!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Why is it always MALES??
I mean, why can't we get more WOMEN into terrorism? We can't seem to get them interested in Engineering, and now it seems we need more equal opportunity for terrorism.
What can be done about this? Sheesh, will the sexism never end for us??
Re:Sexist!!!!!!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because society places a higher value on women than it does on me? It's generally acceptable to treat men like cannon fodder, but it's quite unusual to have the same zeal for war when it involves sending women to their doom over stupid things.
Re:Sexist!!!!!!!!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Sexist!!!!!!!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is it always MALES??
I know you're being silly, but the real reason is that the vast majority of the world's cultures (much of the US included) see violence as something that women do only when protecting their kids.
This has lots of other implications, such as the significant number of people who believe that men can't be raped by women or be victims of domestic violence.
Re:Sexist!!!!!!!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
The two Russian aeroplanes that were blown up in flight in 2004 were blown up by female suicide bombers. It was also fairly common in the Middle East to use women as suicide bombers, particularly women whose husbands had been killed by whomever that group was upset with.
Re:Gotta Love 4chan (Score:5, Insightful)
Al Qaeda can never win militarily.
No, they win by bankrupting us to fund the expanding police state.
Re:Gotta Love 4chan (Score:5, Funny)
Let's see: these guys went to MIT.
MIT has Fraternities
There were Fraternaties in the movie Animal House, in which Kevin Bacon had a role.
Kevin Bacon's last name is the same as a popular pork based breakfast food.
Pork is an unclean animal and not allowed in Islamic culture.
Al Qauida is an Islamic terror group.
=> these guys are linked to Al Qauida (let lose the drones of war)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
One Suspect Dead (Score:3)
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Insightful)
"couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets?"
What, call the local vet and tell him to bring his tranquilliser gun because they have a wild terrorist on the loose?
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Funny)
A brilliant plan with only two drawbacks. One, they didn't have any anaesthetic bullets. Two, there isn't such a thing as anaesthetic bullets.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Informative)
Yea, despite how it's seen in movies, anaesthesia is actually rather complicated.
You can't just pump a guy full of ketamine in the middle of a live shootout and expect him to be just fine.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Informative)
That is really a movie thing, in real life giving the patient enough morphine to shut them up is also a good way to kill them. In WWII medics were very careful about morphine use (eg pinning used syrettes to the soldiers collar so field hospitals would know morphine had been administered).
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Interesting)
Russia had a terrorist attack about a decade ago where Terrorists took an entire theater of people hostage. Russians pumped the theater full of Fentanyl gas (Fentanyl is a synthetic opiate, very strong, but colorless, odorless and tasteless). They did this because opiates put you to sleep rather quickly and you are often unaware it's happening.
To ensure they had enough gas in there to knock out the biggest (body mass) terrorist they basically ended up killing everyone in the theater that was under about 180lbs (more than 100 innocent people). Using opiates as knock out drugs is a good way to kill someone because if you miss dose even a little bit they stop breathing.
Re: (Score:3)
wouldn't that just make the bullets painless?
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Funny)
"You fool! I asked for general anesthetic bullets, not local. Now they're unstoppable!
Re: (Score:3)
"anaesthetic bullets"? I don't think there's any such thing. The police were pursuing them and they were (from the reports I've heard) firing back. At that point, the police needed to protect themselves (not to mention everyone in the area since they had tons more bombs). If the reports I've heard are accurate, then using deadly force was completely justified.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Insightful)
The first reports of any incident are always wildly inaccurate yet people are very fast to jump to judgement because of them.
I remember when the brave UK police only just caught a dangerous terrorist who was running though the London metro system with the clear intention of detonating a backpack bomb in there. Two weeks later the story was the about an innocent man on his way to work who was held down and shot 7 times in the head by the police without even being given a warning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes [wikipedia.org]
My point is wait two weeks because the current version of who did what and why could well turn out to be wrong.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Interesting)
Seven mistakes that cost De Menezes his life [independent.co.uk]
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Informative)
Murphy's First Law of Armed Conflict: If the Enemy is in range, so are You.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Funny)
The closest possible device would be tranquilizer darts, which are usually fired from shotguns. They aren't very accurate, so you have to get pretty close. Plus, they take a while to work. Sometimes minutes.
Every tranq dart I've seen fired hits it's target, in the neck on the first shot, and the target either faints immediately, or gets drowsy and is down in at least ten seconds. Where'd you get your information? Not Hollywood? ppphhhffff!
neither is "Ayn Rand" (Score:5, Funny)
"couldn't they use some kind of anaesthetic bullets?"
BATMAN ISN'T REAL.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Interesting)
"don't want to risk more of their men." Isn't that their job?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
This may be true except the doctors at the hospital where he was treated said that in addition to the bullets in him, there were signs consistent with an explosive device being used on his body.
I.e. he was shot by police and tried to blow himself up but apparently failed.
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:4, Informative)
when a bombing suspect (who has been throwing grenade-like devices at you as you chase him) starts charging at you, you shoot to kill.
The police normally start shooting to kill a long time before it gets to that stage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2013 [wikipedia.org]
Re:One Suspect Dead (Score:5, Interesting)
Police are trained to "shoot to stop", not "shoot to kill."
Law enforcement, however, generally dislikes the term “shoot to kill,” insisting it’s technically inaccurate even though many officers acknowledge it also would be inaccurate to say they try to “shoot to wound.” Instead, departments use various renditions of this phrase: shooting “until the threat ends or stops.” . . .
. . . in a recent email Spokane Police Sgt. Dave McCabe offers a good explanation of what he and others see as a distinguishable difference between shoot-to-kill and shoot-to-stop the threat: “The suspect does not have to be dead to no longer be a threat,” McCabe wrote -- “Shoot to kill” vs. shoot to stop threat [spokesman.com]
Big Echo Chamber (Score:4, Insightful)
And Now the Crowd-sourcing Cleanup Phase (Score:5, Insightful)
"The 4chan crowd, poring over images of the Boston marathon, identified two dark-skinned and bag-carrying suspects (among others). This was then picked up by The New York Post, who ran the image on Thursday's front page with the headline 'Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon.' And now, a completely innocent teen now finds himself scared to leave his home."
Yesterday on my facebook news feed I saw no less than three fake images that could have been mean pranks. And I didn't even see the one listed above. So now all the "crowd sourced" news folks are going to remove images of this man [abcactionnews.com] and this woman [abcactionnews.com] and this guy [abcactionnews.com]. The reason I didn't propagate these things was that they could have been anybody! You could play a mean prank on a friend/enemy if you have a picture of him with a backpack.
Also there are many fake first hand accounts but also some real first hand accounts in crowdsourced news. Ignore the former and herald the latter. People will think you're doing god's work simply because they didn't watch the shitfest that is crowdsourced news in the moments of pure confusion immediately following the event. The signal to noise ratio, the added noise, the fact that people can start leads anonymously, it all reeks of a really bad, lawless, unaccountable lynch mob.
So now post hoc you scrub out all those false leads and you clean up all the things you were wrong about. Then when that's done you point out the few leads you were right about. Then you go on and on at length about how 4chan and reddit are the new real sources of journalism. The mainstream press is busted to all hell (do not confuse this with a free pass or defense for them) but they know they'll be held accountable and the New York Post's gamble should really turn into a slander/libel suit with damages paid out to that young man. NYP made money off those 'exclusive' images at the expense of a person's safety and that should be a civil suit that should expose the NYP for what it really is: a piece of shit rag no better than a tabloid version of "crowd-sourced" news.
Who was it that initially fingered Salah Eddin Barhoum? You don't know and no one ever will because there is no integrity with how that lead was developed.
Perhaps the best argument for gun control (Score:5, Interesting)
I know...mod me down as an anti-gun nut. But at least try to make the connection.
The advantage of crowdsourcing is that you get a shit-ton of information quickly, and it gets disseminated just as quickly. Everybody with a cell phone and a social media account has had this stuff in front of them since the bombing. It's great because it happens so fast, and millions of people being on alert can make for a quicker break in the case. It also has the downside of putting up a lot of false positives.
The NRA's stance is that if everyone had a gun, criminals would know not to so bad stuff and if they did there would be someone right there to stop them. It's basically crowd sourcing police/law enforcement work. Yes, there are now lots more people who can intervene with a criminal who is armed and dangerous. Just as everyone with a cell phone can photograph a scene and post the pictures on line for the world to peruse and instantly identify criminals.
Thing is, the more people who are involved, the higher the likelihood of a false positive. In the case of photos and social media, the mis-identified have a reason to be concerned short term, but once the media self-corrects and the correct criminals are identified their lives will slowly get back to normal. When guns are involved, a mis-identified person or bystander doesn't get a new life when the actual criminal is killed. The "oops" is permanent.
If you don't think there isn't the equivalent of 4chan in the vigilante world, you're sorely mistaken. It's part of the human condition to jump to conclusions based on limited evidence and not everyone will have the forethought or presence of mind not to take out someone who they think is about to cause harm to others.
If we used the NRA method of justice, Salah Eddin Barhoum would have been dead before the FBI even published the photos of the actual bombers.
(nb: I am a gun owner)
Re:Perhaps the best argument for gun control (Score:4, Informative)
"Well, things like this are hard to trace...(with the disgusted tone and facial expression like he thought they should)...but then again NO ONE needs to buy more than ONE pressure cooker, so maybe they can look for people buying more than one.." etc.
The guy was actually sounding like he couldn't believe that since pressure cookers can be used to make bombs and is apparently popular with the DIY bomb crowd, that they weren't more closely looked at....
Pretty soon, are we going to start regulating anything that has a normal use, that can be repurposed into something dangerous?
I get this sad feeling every time allergy season comes around, and I have to fscking show ID and sign forms when I want ephedrine to help me feel better...
Re:And Now the Crowd-sourcing Cleanup Phase (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
The only question, is who is surprised at this? Years of 4chan and Anonymous bullying and lulz - and folks expect them to clean up their act when the chips are down? Years of forwarding all manner of complete crap and puerile "analysis" and you expect the crowd to get it right this time? (That's the general "you", not the specific "you" OP.)
Re:And Now the Crowd-sourcing Cleanup Phase (Score:5, Insightful)
, the fact that people can start leads anonymously, it all reeks of a really bad, lawless, unaccountable lynch mob.
Yes, but if you point that out [slashdot.org], everyone jumps on you to shut you up. Asking even educated and highly literate people to restrain themselves is an excercise in futility. They will have their emotional satisfaction, dammit, and who cares who gets hurt? Yet these very same people rant about the ineptitude of government and the restriction of their civil liberties.
Well guys, take a good look: The government found the right people, in a targeted search, within days. The general public, would, and have, condemned a half dozen innocent people to spent the rest of their lives in fear. Very few will feel any remorse whatsoever for reposting these "crowdsourced" reports. The officers who investigated this, on the other hand, risked and gave their lives in pursuit of the actual criminals... and nobody else. If this is any indication, the government is far better at keeping you safe and preserving your freedoms than the general public is. And the government, at least, apologizes when they screw up -- usually with big piles of cash to the victims.
The vigilants can't say the same. Their only apology is that they're already looking for the next innocent to hang.
vk.com site + New York Times Article review (Score:5, Interesting)
The New York Times [nytimes.com] is reporting that the two suspects attempted to light a bomb while engaging in gun-fire with the police during a standoff outside of the Watertown, MA, house of Andrew Kitzenberg. Andy Kitzenberg has been live tweeting [twitter.com] images of the police activity, shootout, and bomb explosions, and a bullet going through his wall and his armchair on twitter as linked above.
One of the brothers went to Cambridge Rindge and Latin [wikipedia.org], one of the oldest high schools in the USA.
Thanks, Surveillance Society (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what they will use this anecdote to justify: more cameras with better resolution that are always on. Think 'Eye of Sauron'.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorist or freedom fighter? (Score:5, Insightful)
So what do you call them now, Americans, are these Chechen guys "terrorists" or "freedom fighters"?
They are Islamist, that much certain, so why are they bombing USA, after all USA was probably more on the side of Chechens in their search for independence from Russia (this is of-course about oil, there is oil in Chechnya).
However it is my personal guess that these guys wanted to bring some terror to USA as an asymmetric response to USA being in the Middle East, Afghanistan most likely. What is interesting is that the two brothers (Johar [vk.com] is the younger one) lived in USA as refugees since 2000-2001. What else could be their motivation if not a newly discovered sympathy towards their 'brothers in religion' somewhere in the Afghan mountains, being attacked by the US empire?
I think this is an example of how exactly the war on Terror will backfire just like the war on drugs did with more violence and more drugs.
War on terror creates more terrorists that were just kids just a few years ago. War on drugs creates more drug related violence.
There is an old idea that violence begets violence, I think it's very much true.
Re:Terrorist or freedom fighter? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Terrorist or freedom fighter? (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, give it a rest. For a few days I've been hearing the left talk about 'right wing nuts' blowing up the place because it was 15th of April, the tax day. I said on a few occasions that this had to do with the marathon, not with the date. If the marathon took place a day later or a day earlier, that's when the bombs would have gone off.
I'm listening to the CBS Boston live feed [cbslocal.com] and one of the uncles of the two guys said just a little while Tamil (one of the brothers) told him he found his "new self" or something like that in Islam.
So give it a rest, it is what it is.
If a woman is murdered, the cops look at her husband as the most likely suspect, and you know what? Most of the time that's who killed her. Same is here, this is profiling and it works.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
"From the Russian region near Chechnya"? (Score:5, Interesting)
He's not from _near_ Chechnya. It's not a city, it's a region. They are Chechens. References to "his native Chechnya". (The capital is Grozny).
He doesn't consider himself Russian, and he doesn't think he comes from "the Russian region near Chechnya". It was a de facto republic that Russia regained control of militarily.
He's likely a Sunni muslim, but it's quite possible that isn't really a factor here; this could simply be an international protest bombing regarding the west's stance on Chechen independence. Chechens are Muslims the way that Russians are Orthodox Christians and Americans are Catholic or Calvinist in origin; Islam hasn't as far as I understand it been a feature element of their struggle.
"White" Muslim suspects (Score:3)
Re:Holy crap! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago. Leave law enforcement to the trained professionals.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4, Informative)
Hey, be fair, it's entirely possible that he won't be ambushed. For instance, he could repeatedly miss his target and kill one or more innocent bystanders, like the chuckleheads on Danzig street [thestar.com].
Did you link the wrong thing or are you, to be kind, misreading incredibly badly? That's an article from Canada. Known as one of the anti-rights, gun control, people's utopias. There is effectively no concealed carry. There gun laws out the ass. Canada is frequently pointed out as "the way it should be!"
Yet, you put in a link to a gang shooting with 25 victims, two dead. While trying to say that Concealed Carriers shoot up innocent bystanders. Way to go.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you seriously calling Law Enforcement 'trained professionals'? Lately, some of the arrests/videos/incidents I have seen make me question whether some of these cops should be allowed to drive, much less enforce laws and carry weapons. It seems like instead of safety and peace of mind police like to tote their guns as bolt-on confidence, and love to wave them around for whatever reason they can find.
I would feel a whole lot safer with a well-practiced civilian carrying a gun than the boys in blue who have only the department's weapons training to work with. At least your average civilian isn't going to shoot you unless you start shooting first. Police don't have the same prerequisites to shoot people, and will be let off the hook for just about any shooting, no matter how unjustified. Their trigger finger is especially itchy when they think their uniform makes them a target and everyone is out to get them.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they are "trained professionals" --- and out of a gigantic pool of trained professionals, you still get a lot of fatal idiocy. If you think think unleashing a bunch of gun-totin' civilians (each personally convinced they are the sharpest shooter and most level-headed adjudicator of human conflict) is going to have better results than this, you're completely looney. Handing over the same corrupting power --- a license to kill --- to any panicky racist hick, with an itchy trigger finger for vigilante justice, who fills out the forms won't make the world safer.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, so they can pick up a spare gun after one ambushes you, like happened in Santa Cruz not long ago.
So if he has a concealed carry permit, how will they know to ambush him? Are they psychic?
If they are already shooting the area up, they aren't ambushing him and he has a weapon to protect himself.
Stuff happens: 80 Year Old Michigan Homeowner Fights Off FIVE Armed Robbery Suspects Using Handgun [gunssavelives.net]
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4)
When you want to commit suicide, guns are seconds away.
A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine tracked the owners of new gun permits to find out what happened to them. For every gun owner who used his gun in self-defense, 8 of them used it to commit suicide.
The NRA responded by lobbying for laws that prevented the release of information about gun permits, to prevent research like this from happening again.
You're much more likely to use a gun to kill yourself than to defend yourself.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:4, Interesting)
Wrong.
The higher you raise the bar to do it, the fewer people who commit suicide.
This has been seen over and over again around the world.
The most recent example that pops to mind is England. The number 1 suicide rate was overdosing on over he counter pain reducers (Tylon et al.). So they passed a law saying all over the counter pills need to be in a pill packet.
The number of suicide using that method was cut in half, and no other method of suicide saw an increase.
Having a gun right there is the simplest and easiest way to kill oneself.
Give them a delay, even a slight one, and there is a good chance they won't do it.
Another fact: Most people who survived suicide, or was stopped, had no plan to commit suicide. They just decided to do it.
Re: Holy crap! (Score:5, Informative)
Time to get my Concealed Carry Permit.
Won't stop a bomb, but would be pretty handy if people like these two chuckle heads decide to start shooting things up instead of blowing them up.
You should take some basic handgun safety classes followed by some active shooting classes before you consider a CCW permit.
See if you can handle your shit in a mock active-shooter scenario. Because I guarantee that, in practice, if you can't consistently clear a jammed feed, draw your gun properly, disable the safety, and stay behind cover, then you won't be able to do it properly when you are actually about to kill someone. Plus, it is really hard to hit someone who is shooting back at you, especially if they planned ahead and have body armor, a shotgun, a semi-auto rifle and 200 rounds as compared to your two (legal) low-capacity magazines.
You may also find that you do not like the responsibility associated with carrying a firearm... Are you going to help others in danger or just yourself? Are you willing to accept the consequences of misinterpreting a rapidly evolving situation and doing the wrong thing? What if you accidentally shoot an undercover cop? What if you shoot a gang-member and the gang comes after you or your family? What if you accidentally shoot another CCW-holding citizen responding to the same situation? What if he shoots you? Is your spouse on-board with you carrying a loaded weapon on your person? Are you willing to no longer be able to drink alcohol on the days that you are carrying?
Also, remember that in a city, you can't legally take your gun into most stores or offices. If you illegally take it in, you are subject to a felony and loss of your CCW permit. And the average legal fees associated with shooting someone in self-defense are spectacular... upwards of $400K if the family decides to sue you.
I am not saying that you shouldn't go for it. Just be aware there is a lot of baggage associated with the "right" to carry and it is better to be aware of those issues up front.
Re:infowars.com (Score:5, Interesting)
there are military at nearly every marathon with backpacks.
especially the big ones
they hike the course alongside the runners.
i've run 8 marathons (including this years boston marathon) and at 6 of them there were various military hikers. they are always very supportive of the runners and vice versa
this has nothing to do with the bombings.
Re:infowars.com (Score:4, Informative)
I'll try to clear a bit of that up. Some soldiers, even when off-duty, love to be seen in their uniforms. They are proud of who they are, the organization that they serve, and want everyone to know it. True pride in thier work if you will because that is a core principle ingrained in them during training. The backpackers aren't typically running with their gear, as was originally mentioned they are walking along side. Some to just get that road march type training in, sometimes because they are EMT volunteers so they carry appropriate gear, and sometimes just as a show of solidairity and support. Also there can and have been events like that where a military person could have been participating, sponsored by his unit. I don't know if this marathon in particular consisted of those but you can't rule it out. Post 911 at least, it has been general policy of the military though to not wear your uniform in public unless you are enroute to work. This is to minimize attacks of opportunity and as general operation security protocol. Some don't heed that advice however, possibly because of the "romantic" visions of the WW2 days where soldiers were loved and respected by the public and they wish to try and revive that spirit. Again that's a pride thing. Hope that helps.
Re:infowars.com (Score:4, Informative)
There was a group of military that ran the marathon WITH backpacks on. They were also some of the first to help the wounded. exercise your inner-google. I saw photos that day of that showed them running IN the race.
Take off the tinfoil hat and rejoin reality. It may suck and make no sense at times, but every now and then, you actually get to have some fun. If you are always wearing your tinfoil hat, you will NEVER feel happiness.
Re:infowars.com (Score:5, Informative)
There was a news story about some military unit that ran the full marathon in full gear/with rucksacks.
They finished towards the beginning of the race and were some of the people seen running towards the blasts and removing the barricades to let the first responders get to the victims.
Re:infowars.com (Score:5, Funny)
clearly you don't know how conspiracy theories work.
the fact that they weren't wearing illuminati sigils proves that it was the stone masons pretending to be illuminati to hide the fact that there were martians disguised as humans running in the marathon.
Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it really your place to question what Slashdot decides to post on Slashdot?
Start your own news site, and then you can tell your own editors what they can and cannot put on the front page.
Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Interesting)
The other nerdy part, the elephant in the room everyone is dancing around, is how the much vaunted "crowdsourced" media got it wrong - badly so. That part will go down the memory hole as people confuse "the authorities going through the photos from the crowds" with "the crowds going through the photos".
Re:News for nerds? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does this story really have a place on Slashdot?
You can read more about it on practically every major news site, and it is live on all news-oriented TV channels all over the world. It does not need to be on the tech sites too.
Slashdot has never claimed to be just a tech site. Also, you can't discuss events with your peers on major news sites.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Besides, the police said to not leave your home. A huge number of Redditors and Slashdotters won't be affected by this story at all.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Watch the total absence (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget the IRA and their fundraisers in various US cities, including Boston.
Re:Watch the total absence (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at the IRA's death toll. Apparently, they were whispering those "warnings" up the Bishop's ass.
There's not that much difference between the IRA and Al Qaeda. Both self-righteous religious murderers.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Watch the total absence (Score:5, Insightful)
"Read the Qur'an and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and you will see how anyone who believes in tolerance, equality, justice for all, and freedom of expression should opose Islam"
But that's just it isn't it? These things are all open to interpretation and whatever is said in the Koran, or by extremist preachers is really irrelevant - that says nothing about the followers as a whole, that does nothing to justify your generalisation of all 1.3bn muslims.
As I have pointed out to you, right now there are Buddhists attacking and killing muslims in places like Burma, do you really not see that even if the teachings of Buddhism can be interpreted in such a way as to justify violence that anything can? That it's not the text, that kills people, it's simply people who are often brought up in a world of turmoil, violence, and anger - the same sort of anger you're preaching, which is precisely the type of anger that creates far right extremists. You seem entirely oblivious that your distortion of the facts, your preaching of select points and ideas (i.e. you never make mention of the billion odd muslims who behave and even do genuine good in the world) is exactly the same as what those Islamic preachers you so hate do?
You may think you're doing right, you may think you're doing good, but in reality you're exactly the same as the likes of Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada, you just thankfully haven't found the platform and hence do not have the listeners to do the same damage they do.
Are you really so oblivious to the fact you're doing exactly what they do in generalising about muslims as they generalise about Westerners and preaching hate towards them? If you don't recognise this then tell me, what do you think is different? the mere fact your preaching hasn't led to a terrorist incident yet but theirs has?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
Re: (Score:3)
You guessed right, sucks when bigots feel validated through confirmation bias. You were wrong about the Norway attacks though, I remember what you posted in that thread. So, one right, one wrong, you're about as good as a flipped coin.
I was wrong about the Norway attacks. It was one individual, who in my opinion was insane. Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012 [wikipedia.org] and tell me that putting mas murder down to Muslims is just like flipping a coin. I make it about 17 out of 20, and its only that low because Wikipedia counts things like "a possible second US drone strike has killed two more suspected foreign fighters in northwestern Pakistan", and "Two US drone strikes in the volatile tribal belt of northwest Pakistan killed at least f
Re:Watch the total absence (Score:5, Informative)
Now look at the list of terror attacks in 2012
None of those happened in the USA. Here's a list of Islamic attack attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_the_United_States#attacks_or_failed_attacks_by_date [wikipedia.org]
And here's a far bigger list of all terrorism attempts in the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2010.E2.80.93present [wikipedia.org]
If you guess every terrorism attack in the USA is Islamic, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right.
Re:Watch the total absence (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, unfortunately that list also for some unknown reason (well I lie, it's not known, that list has been produced by someone with a bias) completely missing many other incidents.
There were in the same period attacks that would also fall under the lose definition used (or even a much tighter definition) of terrorist attacks by Shining Path rebels in Peru, Farc rebels in Colombia, Buddhists in Burma (against muslims), PIRA in Ireland, Hindus in India (against muslims). I could probably go on if I bother to Google for other parts of the world that the Western press rarely gives a fuck about but there's little point given that there's enough here to run a bulldozer over the worthfulness of that list.
Further, it seems a little odd to take a list so many attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq and pretend they're somehow evidence of muslims being somehow a problematic grouping of people without considering the context of those attacks and that they were triggered by the actions of Bush and Blair's modern Christian crusades and that most attacks are against other muslims so are as much demonstrative of civil war, than terrorism.
But anyway, I don't know why I'm bothering, you've made enough posts in response to enough stories that have absolutely no relevance to Islam proclaiming your hate for it for it to be obvious you are a fully signed up far right propagandist and hence inherently unable to think rationally or converse sensibly on this topic, but I guess for the benefit of others, perhaps they can at least see that terrorism happens globally, and that muslims are as much victims as they are perpetrators. You only have to look at the suffering muslims faced in Afghanistan in the 80s by the USSR, and Chechnya as a result of Putin's policies for example to see that they haven't exactly had an easy ride themselves. You may think a few attacks in the West are evidence of some horrible group of people far worse than anyone else, but here's an idea - why not go live somewhere like Burma, or Islamic areas of India for a while and then tell me they're the bad guys not the victims - you don't know what terrorism is unless you've seen or bothered to even read about how some of these communities suffer daily.
Re: (Score:3)
I was going with Octo-mom, myself.
On a serious note, And "this sort of attack, aimed at killing and injuring indiscriminately is the hallmark of ALL TERRORISTS". FTFY.
Refer to Irish Troubles, Tamil Tigers, Shining Path, etc.
Pretty much the only terrorist groups I can think of that avoid civilian casualties are the anti-corporate flavor (Weather Underground).
Re:Not News For Nerds (Score:5, Insightful)
Whenever one of you idiots wander in here and complain that its not "News for nerds" you always seem to forget the "Stuff that matters" part.
Re:Not News For Nerds (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The suspect they were trying to apprehend was shooting at them and throwing bombs at them. At that point, regardless of whether you are guilty of the crime they are arresting you for, you forfeit any right you have to stay alive.
When you try to unlawfully kill someone, they are justified in using lethal force to stop you from killing them.