Former NSA Chief Warns Hackers Will Attack US If Snowden Is Captured 413
Okian Warrior writes "The Guardian is reporting Michael Hayden speculating that hackers and transparency groups are likely to respond with cyber-terror attacks if the United States government apprehends whistleblower Edward Snowden. Hayden called the potential attackers 'Nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.'"
Old Married people? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
They don't fit the profile of cyber attackers. Too much to lose.
grain of truth? (Score:4, Insightful)
nihilists: that could be one way to describe groups like lulzsec, who aren't into transparency as a cause but would rather watch the world burn for the lulz.
anarchists: I don't see this one per se, but the govt described bradley manning as an anarchist so that's why they think that.
activists: for sure, groups like anonymous are activists. manning too. snowden too. they are motivated by effecting change in the system.
Lulzsec: I'm not sure to what degree Lulzsec would participate themselves based on the FBI busts, but I'm sure there would be some offshoot phoenix "rise from the ashes" that would throw their hats in the ring.
anonymous: i think this one is a given.
neckbeards: kind of a stereotype, not suprised he through that out.
tldr: I think he's more right than wrong, both to expect attempts at reprisals and in describing many of the groups that will attempt it. I would add foreign nations / hostile groups (not activists, but interested in harming USA interests). It's the perfect time to attack under the guise of these other groups.
Re:grain of truth? (Score:5, Informative)
Certainly there's a grain of truth - anyone who values freedom is likely to be unhappy with the Fed's nascent police state, and some of them will act out violently against their corrupt and unaccountable rulers. When that starts to happen more and more frequently, it's important not to see it not as justification for repression, but as a sign of just how hated and undemocratic the U.S. government has become.
As John F. Kennedy once said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
Re:OT: Dehydration Question (Score:5, Funny)
OK, I know this is kind of OT for this thread and has little to do with Snowden, but I was flipping through channels last night and ran across this movie where everyone was in a life raft. I don't know what movie it was, but it went on for a while with people in a life raft, and they were fighting off sun poisoning, sharks, and dehydration. They tried to create an evaporation still with some saran wrap and a cup and lick the condensed drops off, the bottom of the plastic, but it didn't work. Here's the thing- so they were completely dehydrated, but the two women with larger boobs seemed OK. Why do they never talk about drinking boob milk when they're out there on a life raft or in the desert with no water or whatever? Big boobs have to carry at least a few quarts of liquid.
I think we just found someone who hasn't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.
Re:grain of truth? (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire speech is spun from speculation: "I can sit here and imagine circumstances and scenarios, but they're nothing more than imaginative." (his words).
Much like the Iraqi WMD thing.
Re:grain of truth? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's called terrorism. He is trying to terrify you into changing your behaviour and beliefs with threats.
Re:grain of truth? (Score:5, Funny)
yeah so everyone and anyone might attack USA if Snowden is captured and might attack if Snowden is not captured?
soo? more surveillance a cure?!? what the fuck is he making this statement for "we're acting kinda like dicks so we're likely to be attacked by dicks".
in other news AQAP has figured out a new way to terrorize american interests - all they need to do is write messages to each other that "we'll attack with 100 militants sometime next month, RIGHT?!". so the surveillance that is based on just electronics is geared up for a big fail, they can spin up an entire fantasy terrorism empire that they'll be monitoring using massive resources... just by sending skype messages to each other they can shutdown embassy activities in multiple countries for far longer than a bomb would have.
Re:grain of truth? (Score:5, Insightful)
Kinda brings the whole Golden Rule thing into focus doesn't it. Maybe if the NSA and by extension our nation does want to be attacked, terrorized, and treated so much; we should consider attacking, threatening, and terrorizing others less often.
Re:Old Married people? (Score:5, Funny)
Wife: My husband hasn't spoken to me in years.
Husband: I know you don't like me to interrupt you.
Re:Old Married people? (Score:5, Funny)
The joke is on Mr. Hayden. Calling upstairs for your mom to bring you dinner totally counts as talking to members of the opposite sex.
Re: (Score:3)
If we could trust the NSA it would be one thing , but they shown us we can't .
This is where I see most people get tripped up. You're wrong. The fact that they want to spy on us at ALL proves that you're wrong. No Government can be trusted, and that includes the "good" one. Our Constitution was drafted specifically with this in mind...I really wish they'd teach this in public school, but that's probably asking too much.
They are supposed to be there to help us being safe , right now it's them we don't feel safe with.
You're assuming that the Government wants to keep you safe. This is false. The Government wants you to pay them to think that they're keeping you safe, but the re
Re:Old Married people? (Score:5, Insightful)
That the "cyberattacks" will be the equivalent of someone spraying "Fuck U!" on a billboard for the NSA won't matter. Citizens will get the message that the NSA is your first and only defense against an unholy cabal of virgin"cyberterrorists" who would hack your toaster to murder your spouse and are probably gay or something, child pornography rapists who will come for your kids, and Edward Snowden who evidently murdered US troops or something.
In order to keep defending you against such evil people, they're going to need you to install a camera in your living room, and you'll need a license to go on the internet on your state-approved computer.
(I'll admit I got carried away with this hyperbole...)
Nihilists? (Score:5, Funny)
Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
Re: (Score:3)
at least they don't work on Shabbas.
(and, shut the fuck up, donnie)
Re: (Score:2)
at least they don't work on Shabbas.
(and, shut the fuck up, donnie)
beating a dead horse, they don't bowl on shabbas. this isn't nam! there are rules!
Re:Nihilists? (Score:5, Funny)
Meanwhile (Score:5, Funny)
This claim was made by a fossilised old fart who hasn't managed to get a rise out of his dick for thirty years and has decided to take it out on everyone else who isn't having a problem satisfying themselves and their partners sexually.
If Hayden hadn't been spending the last 20 years trying to fuck over the entire country en-masse, he'd still be able to get a hard-on for normal sexual thoughts about individual people.
Re:Meanwhile (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Meanwhile (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Meanwhile (Score:5, Funny)
All praise the NSA, benevolent defenders of freedom.
Sincerely,
Little Girl
Out of touch with reality (Score:5, Funny)
In other news: crotchety old man demands kids get off his damn lawn.
Re: (Score:2)
"old man shouts at (network) cloud"
#include "oldmansimpson.png"
no news here. just the keep-alive of "please be afraid, citizen!".
Re:Out of touch with reality (Score:4, Funny)
Hours of ad hominem fun. (Score:4, Funny)
Mod Hayden -1 Troll.
Re:Hours of ad hominem fun. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a former NSA chief this is ingrained behavior for him, and so Hayden will keep spouting that line long after he's past the point of senility.
Re: (Score:2)
Can't but agree. You'd have thought that intelligence work would require one to at least be aware of how to form a rational argument. This includes one's awareness of fallacies common in rhetorics... Well, maybe he thought an explicit use of a fallacy will somehow bolster his argument with the dumb populace. Who knows, maybe it even worked.
Not to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
The most important rule of propaganda: If you can't discredit the message, discredit the messenger.
In other words, (Score:5, Insightful)
people who give a greater damn about the Constitution than the current government.
Re:In other words, (Score:5, Insightful)
Smug nerds who give a greater damn about the fashionable parts of the Constitution, such as the second amendment, and look at you like you are crazy when you mention the others
FTFY
This just in: different people tend to care more about the stuff that they feel is important. Film at eleven.
Re:In other words, (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't picking and choosing which parts of the constitution to support the reason we dislike the NSA so much in the first place?
No, it's the opposite. Picking and choosing which parts of the constitution to ignore is the reason the NSA is disliked. Additionally: I have limited resources as an individual, so I put my limited time and money into advocating the things I think are important. If many do so, then all bases are covered. Requiring me to "support" all views equally would spread me so thin as to be ineffective at any advocacy.
Note that even though I do not rally in support of the 2nd amendment, I do not ignore it and think it is important. I think the 2nd needs to be reformed to become "The right to bear technology" such that our freedoms extend to 3D printers and all other technology including encryption systems (which are nearly considered munitions anyway). That means a new amendment... That new amendment would expand the 2nd, it's the one I would support.
Perhaps with such a right to bear technology uncorrupted would have prevented the government from removing mandatory encryption from IPv6... Thus PRISM would be moot, making less likely the need to exercise our 2nd amendment rights to uphold the constitution.
The point is: You've got it all wrong, mate.
Re: (Score:2)
you need more experience
Re: (Score:3)
It's been my experience, sitting in my mother's basement, pounding my fists on the table and muttering to myself about teh eevil lib'ruls and teh eevil gummint, that those who defend the second amendment ...uh, what was I talking about again?
FTFY.
You paint everyone with the same brush... My mother's basement happens to be a fully developed apartment complete with a whole back yard. Perfect for my wife and son to live in. And I only sound like that after about 8 beers... you know when the chance of me being taken seriously is nil. On the other hand, I do concider the constitution, as a whole, to be far more valuable than your government. And I'm not even american. Your attitude betrays you. You use the freedom you have to undermine those who wish you
Re: (Score:3)
Re:In other words, (Score:4, Insightful)
When the constitution is the only authorization those people have, it is entirely relevant when they lose interest in following it. It's not merely advice or rules. It's the documentation of what was ratified by the states authorizing their authority. When that falls by the wayside, so does the legitimacy of their authority.
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot (Score:5, Funny)
'Nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.'
Well, at least that excludes Slashdot. Slashdot is filled with thirtysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in fifteen or sixteen years.
Re: (Score:2)
He also forgot Methodists.
In advance of possible cyber attacks, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In advance of possible cyber attacks, (Score:5, Insightful)
US citizens are advised to flee the planet.
In other news, US citizens will be punished either by the government for the actions of other citizens, or by other countries' citizens for the actions of the government. However, in no way and at no time, should this reflect that the government is in any way wrong. Meanwhile, police everywhere would like to remind women that if they were raped, it must be because of how they were dressed. "Lady Liberty was asking for it! She was showing leg."
-_- My point is that if the government is concerned that its actions may be inviting wide-spread reprisals, they ought to be asking whether or not those actions have public support. Afterall, isn't this supposed to be a democracy? When most of your citizens are saying "Dude, you fucked up," it might be time to, I don't know... hold a meeting at least?
Re: (Score:2)
When most of your citizens are saying "Dude, you fucked up," it might be time to, I don't know... hold a meeting at least?
They do. It's called congress. They talk about what they're going to do about those goddamned uppity plebes.
Re:In advance of possible cyber attacks, (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In advance of possible cyber attacks, (Score:5, Informative)
The US was NEVER a democracy... The US was initially established as a Representative Republic...
This is such a lame argument and it needs to stop being made. Democracy just means, "rule by the people". A representative republic is a form of democracy, as is a direct democracy. Saying that a country is a democracy is making the distinction that the government represents the will of the people, as opposed to an aristocracy (represents the will of a small ruling class), monarchy (represents the will of one person), a plutocracy (represents the will of the wealthy), etc.
The entire basis of the United States is that the government must represent the will of the people, so the US is a democracy (in theory).
I mean, read the dictionary before calling other people idiots:
democracy (d-mkr-s)
n. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
n. A political or social unit that has such a government.
n. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
Can we please never see this argument again?
Kettle, pot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, YES! I wish a journalist would use that line in a press conference with that guy.
In other words, (Score:5, Funny)
In this day and age, the mighty United States of America has been reduced to feeling "terror" from "twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years."
Wasn't that a standup joke 20 years ago?
Re: (Score:3)
the mighty United States of America has been reduced to feeling "terror" from "twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years."
At least twentysomethings are a lot scarier than (possible) 3oz+ bottles. Just observed two very serious TSA agents gather around a non-standard bottle with foreign lettering and discussing in detail whether it does or does not exceed the 3oz allowance. They may have been looking for a translator, as I left security.
Re: (Score:2)
twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years
Sounds like a fitting description of 72-virgins-horny Arab terrorists, doesn't it?
Re: (Score:2)
Certainly the latter group is the most innocuous.
Twentysomethings who haven't... (Score:3, Funny)
This country is terribly plagued with such a reprehrensible menace. The only solution is to mandate a free girlfriend to every twentysomething, to avoid their fall into tyranny and hackery. It will be a burden for us all, but I think we on Slashdot can manage.
Re: (Score:2)
As opposed to what Hayden and his ilk are (Score:5, Insightful)
Which are fascist, traitorous, nationalistic power-fetishists who only view the opposite sex as tools or sex toys. Power in D.C. attracts a lot of arm-candy and those people get used to that very quickly.
Same Brush Syndrome (Score:5, Insightful)
I like how he lumps "activists" in together with Lulzsec and Anonymous.
Within a couple of years, the US media will be using "activist" as a synonym for "terrorist".
Sadly, most Americans will go right along with this.
Re:Same Brush Syndrome (Score:5, Informative)
I like how he lumps "activists" in together with Lulzsec and Anonymous.
Within a couple of years, the US media will be using "activist" as a synonym for "terrorist".
Sadly, most Americans will go right along with this.
Fox News does that already.
Re:Same Brush Syndrome (Score:4, Interesting)
> Within a couple of years, the US media will be using "activist" as a synonym for "terrorist".
I am hoping and praying that it gets revealed that the NSA was feeding the FBI information as part of the nationwide crackdown on Occupy protesters. [theguardian.com] It's bad enough the FBI was involved but if the NSA can be proven to have directly fucked with a political movement like that, then the all pretense of defending against terrorism will be gone.
Re: (Score:2)
You honestly didn't see that coming? We lost the hacker vs cracker argument, and we'll soon lose the activist vs terrorist one too.
Re:Same Brush Syndrome (Score:5, Informative)
Here in New Hampshire, home of the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org), that's already happening. We're about to go have a protest next week in Concord against the city PD requesting what is essentially a tank. In the reasons stated on the form they filled out to apply for the DHS grant, they specifically reference "Free Staters" and "Occupy" as potential threats they're worried about -- as justification for getting a fucking TANK.
http://freekeene.com/2013/07/29/concord-pd-requests-a-bearcat-to-deal-with-sovereign-citizens-free-staters-and-occupy-new-hampshire/
Re:Same Brush Syndrome (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget the old boogymen of terrorists and nihilists. Those are classic punching bags. The sort that everyone hates and everyone can get on board with hating. Don't like them? They're a terrorist! That's how it goes. Lumping activists in there is only a slight deviation from the typical script. It's effective when talking to republicans while democrats have a kinder view of the label. (Although, hell, the teapartiers have started to turn those tables)
And forget the low-brow insult to twenty-somethings. Sure, it's uncouth and he's punching below the belt. He's specifically doing it to antagonize. He WANTS it to happen. He wants to poke that bear so he can have a raging bear to justify his bear-repellant.
Forget all that. No, this is worse. Catch this part:
"But certainly Mr Snowden has created quite a stir among those folks who are very committed to transparency and global transparency and the global web, kind of ungoverned and free. And I don't know that there's a logic between trying to [punish] America or American institutions for his arrest, but I hold out the possibility. I can sit here and imagine circumstances and scenarios, but they're nothing more than imaginative."
He's specifically calling out TRANSPARENCY GROUPS. And he's kinda sorta maybe suggesting the possibility that they'll go "punish America". He can't actually tell us why that would happen but oh he's imagining it. It's like a wet dream where all of his illegal deeds throughout his life become justified and he's worshipped as a hero for stopping "those evil transparency groups". It's one where he doesn't go to sleep at night worrying that he'll be fired, tried, and thrown in prison for violating the law.
That's what you have to focus on here. The man is in FEAR of transparency. This is a sign of a bad man.
Chilling effect (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Chilling effect (Score:4, Insightful)
A government official advising against a course of action because he fears a terrorist response is proof that terrorism works.
Where do you see that he recommended against a course of action?
This is a government official trying to get more budget than he already has, nothing more.
Wait what?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
When did hacking turn into "Cyber-terrorism"? Has the world gone stupid?
Re: (Score:3)
No, the world has always been stupid.
It is just became more obvious after internet v2. or whatever they called it.
Re:Wait what?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorism as defined by the government is not what terrifies the people, but what terrifies people with cushy jobs in the government. Right now, they're terrified that people will find out what they're doing and call them out for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The world has always been stupid. It's just gotten worse recently.
Re: (Score:2)
The costs of hiring 2x the new vetting staff after http://rt.com/usa/probe-company-cleared-snowden-022/ [rt.com]
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/18/nsa_buddy_system_director_keith_alexander_tells_congress_how_the_nsa_will.html [slate.com]
~a costly new No Contractor Left Behind Act.
With todays fast adsl, adsl2+ modems and some having friends with hybrid fibre coax or even optical, twentysomethings are way more e
Re: (Score:2)
If you control the spin and the message, you can make it mean anything you like. And "anybody who disagrees with what we do" is now the blanket term for "terrorists".
Once they have that, they can do anything they want, at any time, and keep it secret under national security laws.
Welcome to 1984, because what they are insisting on is Big Brother -- and anybody who disagrees must be a terrorist. Once you convince most of the populace it
who? (Score:2)
quote:
"I'm just trying to illustrate that you've got a group of people out there who make demands, whose demands may not be satisfiable, may not be rational, from other points of view..."
not sure if this refers to our rogue government (ie, the criminals in charge of the NSA and those who continue to fund it) or the ones we are being programmed to 'be afraid of'. ...gotta go: I'm almost late for my two minute's hate.
because of the put-down, I imagine... (Score:2)
Michael Hayden, like internet trolls everywhere... (Score:3, Insightful)
How many times have you seen someone respond to IRC, forum post, thread, etc with something along the following lines:
"The person disagreeing with me is 15 year old acne-crusted, coke-glasses-wearing, living in his mother's basement loser with no social life and blah blah blah....."
Reading Michael Hayden feels like reading an internet troll. I don't know if he's doing it because he's dumb troll, or because he used to be one of those 15 year old acne crusted, coke-glasses-wearing, living in his mother's basement loser with no social life before getting into the NSA so he could change venue to live in a government basement.
The first rule of Fight Club is ... (Score:2)
... that you don't talk about Fight Club. Then they made it into a movie. It is the American way.
Sound advice from the Breakfast Club (Score:2)
It's all fun and games until they get annoyed enough to start having people disappear. Then it's no longer a fun internet game. And the big money players won't tolerate loss of finances for long.
Such shame (Score:2)
Scare tactics for tax dollars (Score:3)
This whole scare tactic on Hayden's part, especially since it was a speech at the "Bipartisan Policy Center" sounds like a grab for political support and funding to further broaden what the NSA, FBI, DEA and every other shitty acronym involved is already doing. People like Hayden are the types who create places like Gitmo, fund operations like Haliburton, and see nothing wrong with getting what they want by any means necessary. No wonder he's so scared.
calling people gay (Score:5, Funny)
"who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.'"
Really? Is calling people it doesn't like gay really the governments new tactic?
Re: (Score:2)
"who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.'"
Really? Is calling people it doesn't like gay really the governments new tactic?
Actually, I read it as calling them introverts. Otaku, if you like, if we had a word for that here. Dorks, I guess, though whale dicks are huge and the hypothetical people we're discussing are social lames, not gigantic cocks. Anyway, calling people it doesn't like gay is the government's old tactic. It doesn't work any more because statistically nobody gives a shit so long as you don't poke your genitals into their face without an invitation.
Stick, Meet Hornet Nest (Score:4, Insightful)
twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years
It's great to see people putting down others, I'm sure statements like that won't at all cause people who otherwise probably wouldn't have wanted to be involved in any such thing to change their minds. It's like saying "we have information suggesting an attack is imminent on US interests abroad - keep an eye out for young men who have unsightly beards, sand in their butt cracks, and a strange fascination with goats" and not expecting more people to be violent towards you than before you made the statement.
What a dumbass (Score:2)
They won't attack the US (Score:5, Insightful)
Translation (Score:2)
Self Loathing Much? (Score:5, Insightful)
"twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years.'"
Really? "Hah hah, little nerd, you don't get any pussy!" The former NSA chief is using sophomoric name-calling to make himself feel better about having become one of the most crafty and subversive enemies our nation has ever faced. Just like high school, when the jocks would do the same to feel better about their abusive relationships with their fathers.
Activist cyber attacks now cyber "terror" attacks (Score:2)
http://www.verizonenterprise.com/resources/reports/es_data-breach-investigations-report-2013_en_xg.pdf [verizonenterprise.com]
Also of the three types, activist attacks are the least sophisticated while state espionage attacks are the most sophisticated. Its funny how activist attacks are considered as "terror" attacks.
Yes there will be attacks because of S
This guy needs help (Score:2)
Hayden sounds like he could use some Viagra and a hooker (or whatever he's into).
Might take the edge off, and he could come up with a reasoned argument instead of just using the Wikipedia entry on logical fallacies as a checklist.
"The more you tighten your grip" (Score:5, Insightful)
"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" Seems fitting here.
Let's ignore that some of what he leaked was about the US more or less illegally spying on their own citizens and people in other countries. Let's ignore that not everyone feels they should be spied on by the US. Let's pretend that some of this spying wasn't getting into the unconstitutional domestically and illegal where it happened. Let's completely ignore than political asylum has been around for centuries and America has certainly granted it to Russians over the years who were equally damaging. While we're at it, let's pretend that this 'apprehending' is essentially illegal in the countries where it happens.
Instead, let's put the focus on how a bunch of nihilists and anarchists might decide to stage a little retribution and how God himself told America they're allowed to do these things and fuck everyone else.
Because it couldn't possibly be because people disagree with what the NSA and other agencies do, or that everyone else in the world is tired of them thinking that what everyone else's rights don't matter. There's no way that the rest of the world doesn't feel like the US has overstepped its authority in other countries. It's inconceivable that we don't think you can have Liberty if we have to give up all of our privacy in order to make you safe. People couldn't possibly be protesting because the US is rapidly becoming a surveillance state which will happily trample on people's rights while telling other countries they should be more open and free.
Fuck you Mr. Hayden, we're not buying the misdirection to a bunch of nerds in their basement. You may not be able to understand why people are venting their displeasure, but that doesn't mean your stated reasons are the right ones.
Bullcrap! (Score:2)
Get this bullcrap off the front page. Complete nonsense.
It's resignation time. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting Michael Hayden feels free to hold forth as an authority on the presumably private lives of his fellow American citizen's, specifically their sex lives.
Does anyone seriously doubt that this is Hayden accidentally -and very publicly- accessing and referencing the very thing he denies the NSA is doing- watching, cataloging , storing (and sniggering at) the most deeply personal and intimate details of people's everyday affairs, in this case their masturbation habits and likely frequency of sexual intercourse?
It's hard to keep clear the boundaries between what you know and can talk about and what you know and aren't supposed to talk about, isn't it Michael? It requires constant vigilance, doesn't it? You never know when you're going to let something slip.
I am asking the president of the United States to relieve General Hayden of his responsibilities for conduct unbecoming, gross negligence in his public utterances, and failure to uphold the high standards of the US military.
Are they on Vacation? (Score:2)
Obligitory on Nihilists (Score:2)
"Nihilists! Jesus. Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
Wait, did I just Godwin the thread?
Cyber-terror attacks? (Score:3)
Oh, give me a break.
Not every attack is "terrorism". Not every crime is terrorism.
IF this materializes, which who knows, it might, it will most likely be cyber-annoyance. You'll try to buy something on amazon and it'll be slow, so you'll do it later. Some web sites may be DDOSed off the net for a day or three. Life will go on.
So now... (Score:2)
So now the US needs Snowden for national security and to protect him from being tortured and coerced to give up secrets? Assuming if that threat is true, maybe if they had led with it instead of making him enemy number 1, this would have played out differently.
This tactic of bait and switch seems all to common with the US. Invade Iraq because of of their involvement with 9/11. Oops once it is known by the public that they weren't involved with 9/11, change the story. Invade Irag because of WMD. Oops, once i
Michael Hayden (Score:5, Insightful)
is the kind of person that pulled the levers for the Third Reich.
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, and arresting terrorists makes other terrorists mad at us too. So what? Either its the right thing to do, and we do it, or it isn't, and we don't.
The real conversation nobody seems to be having is wether its worth the tremendous black eye we are giving ourselves by ineffecitvely chasing this guy around the world. The guy broke the law, so he should be arrested. But that doesn't mean we have to publicly rail like impotent babies every time this dweeb sneaks into another country that doesn't like us much. For generations people have fled places like Russia and China after saying or doing things there that the government doesn't like (but are perfectly legal here), and we've rightly used each as an oppertunity to lecture them about freedom and human rights. Well guess what? Telling what you know about the NSA's operations is a form of speech that is not illegal in China or Russia. So now they can smugly do the same back to us. So what does our government do? Why, they make a big public stink about it, so that the damage to our reputation when China and Russia throw our own rhetoric back at us is a large as possible. This whole situation has been so perfect for Russia and China that they might start believeing in God again.
Odd stereotype .... (Score:3)
.... seeing as how Snowden was dating a stripper. Indeed, I can think of no better role model.
Married with children (Score:5, Insightful)
I am married for fifteen years, and have a daughter of nine, but I sympathise with Snowden, not with the likes of NSA, CIA or FBI, or other likewise organisations.
As a middle class engineer who has to comply with all kinds of regulations and laws and has to pay taxes, I want that the organisations which are created by the lawmakers also obey the law.
Also, whistle blowers should be by default protected by the judiciary.
TO,IH - Too Old, Ignored Him (Score:4)
Lest you think I'm some young, age-ist punk, he's only a decade & a half older than me. But most people who were born before personal computers were common in peoples' homes don't understand 'net culture. Or computers, for that matter.
I'll give General Hayden some cred, in that's he served in the Air Force, and has worked in intelligence for most of his career. So he'll have some passing acquaintance with computers. But like many people his age, and from his background, he's probably clueless about "Nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years."
The fact that he's using "Nihilists & anarchists" in the same grouping makes me think of those fogies who say things like, "on the drugs", "hippy-hop", and "all gooped up on gop". It's a spew of things they might have heard, but aren't really familiar with. All they know is it's different... and it scares them.
I'm sure Fox News'll give him lots of air time. You know, 'cause: Boo! Scary!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yes it is.
So are words such as Capitalist, Right leaning, Left leaning, Moderate, Corporate, Not for profit, Conformists...
If you are an Activist, you could be active in a positive way, or a negative way. If you are breaking into computers to make a point, you are doing it a negative way. It is akin to the same thinking as people who have riots when something they don't like happends. Where they spend most of their time say stealing TV's then actually protesting the problem.
Re: (Score:3)
He's trying to provoke an attack, isn't he?
It would be a win-win. That is to say a "win" for whoever does the attacking, and a "win" for the national security/defense/spying establishment. Maybe not as profitable for everyone as 9/11, but still not bad for a day's work.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
Hey! I'm twentysomething, and I definitely recognize when people on the opposite side of the hallway have sex, you insensitive clod!
Re: (Score:3)
Reminds me of an old Bill Hicks rant: