Russia Plans To Extend Edward Snowden's Asylum 315
mendax writes "The New York Times reports, 'Russia plans to extend its offer of asylum to Edward J. Snowden beyond August, a Russian lawmaker said Friday at the World Economic Forum ... The lawmaker, Aleksei K. Pushkov, chairman of the foreign affairs committee in Russia's lower house of Parliament, hinted during a panel discussion that the extension of temporary refugee status for Mr. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor, might be indefinite. "He will not be sent out of Russia," Mr. Pushkov said. "It will be up to Snowden."'"
Snowden said yesterday that going back to the U.S. is not an option because of the country's poor whistleblower protections "which through a failure in law did not cover national security contractors like [him]." He added, "This is especially frustrating, because it means there’s no chance to have a fair trial, and no way I can come home and make my case to a jury."
Make him a Russian citizen.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Make him a Russian citizen.... (Score:4, Interesting)
If Depardieu can be made a citizen over a petty tax dispute, surely the Russian government can extend the same courtesy over a more significant issue.
In Soviet Russia... (Score:5, Funny)
whistle blows you!
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Sounds hot. I'm sure there's a rule34 application of it too.
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I am so getting a T-shirt with that printed on it.
TF2 (Score:2)
failure in law (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, that law does exactly was it's supposed to do - protect the guilty.
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I would give you the last of my mod points if I hadn't already posted +5 my good sir anon
Snowden is Putin's ticket to a free ride (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing you have to understand here is that Putin is an authoritarian douchebag -- but he's not an idiot. He knows that there will be extra scrutiny on his polices during the Olympics. By having Snowden around, it's a reminder that the US isn't in a position to finger-wag over such things.
U.S. Willing to Talk if Snowden Pleads Guilty (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01... [nytimes.com]
His response should be "you first".
Re:U.S. Willing to Talk if Snowden Pleads Guilty (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01...
Is this a new thing now, where /. cuts off the hyperlink?
unmolested: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01... [nytimes.com]
a href: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/us/politics/us-willing-to-hold-talks-if-snowden-pleads-guilty.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]
This is dumb and whoever implemented it is dumb.
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And there's a punchline in the third sentence:
And the attorney general reiterated that the United States was not willing to offer clemency to Mr. Snowden
"Clemency", kind or merciful treatment of one who deserves harsh punishment, says the dictionary.
So the full offer is: "We'll talk if you come back, plead guilty and are punished to the fullest extent of the law."
It's like some kind of Woody Allen line, "My lawyer plea-bargained my sentence down to death".
The US pokes itself in the eye with a stick (Score:5, Insightful)
First, I'll stipulate that Snowden is a hero to me. Half my age. Twenty times the guts.
What really bothers me, though, is how the Administration bungled this. Amateur hour! The moment we arrogantly, petulantly forced Evo Morales airplane down in Austria, we pretty much guaranteed that Snowden would need to hole up and that Putin would take the opportunity to stick us in the eye. This is beyond amazing. We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history. All because we couldn't think straight and realize that Ecuador or Venezuela or *anywhere" would be a batter outcome than what we got.
It's one thing to get poked in the eye with a stick, but quite another thing to run into the stick full tilt. Amateur hour.
Re:The US pokes itself in the eye with a stick (Score:4, Interesting)
Putin might be a thug but in America thug in government are a plenty.
Until a critical mass of corrupt politicians and their conspirators die off or a revolution occurs, there will be no whistleblower laws.
Government corruption is best measured on how bad whistleblower laws are in that country.
Unfortunately, the US government has become a thug (Score:2)
We've put ourselves in the position where a vicious thug gets to posture as the nice guy and leave us with very little to do. We are depending on a thug to protect the fate and future of a man who initiated one of the most important discussions in our nation's political history.
Before I comment, I need to clarify that I am an American citizen, a naturalized citizen since I wasn't born in the United States of America.
It is true that Russia is a thug. And it is true that right now, as we correspond on /. the fate of the conscience of the nation of the United States of America rests on the decision of the Russian thug.
However, if we take a step backward, we can see that the government of the United States of America has become a thug itself, and a thug that is not unlike that notorio
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Putin stuck Obama in the eye. He thinks Obama is an amateur, a lightweight, and he is correct. Putin is a KGB spymaster, Obama is a "community organizer."
This will not be the last time he poke Obama in the eye. Trust me. Ol' Vladimir is not a nice man, but he is not a stupid man. He knows an easy mark when he sees one.
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Russia doesn't go around invading any country without nukes
Counterexample [wikipedia.org].
they don't go around trying to assassinate all secular, democratically elected leaders who don't kiss their ass
None of the nuclear powers do. But modern Russia does poison people [wikipedia.org] with lethal levels of polonium.
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Uhh? really?
"Russia doesn't go around invading any country without nukes".
Guess what? before the USA invaded Afghanistan, the USSR did. It's in the history books, should you bother to read them. Or maybe some current news, like about The Ukraine, where the citizens want to ally with the EU, but ol' Putin won't have it.
Are you living under a rock? Moron.
It will be Ok for Snowden .. (Score:2)
Extended through the Olympics? (Score:2)
I wouldn't be surprise if Snowden attempts to make contact w/US participants in Sochi.
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Yes, but everyone knows about their spying. To learn the Russian government is secretly spying on their population would be about as scandalous as learning another Republican is secretly spending his time off at a gay club.
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Yes, but everyone knows about their spying. To learn the Russian government is secretly spying on their population would be about as scandalous as learning another Republican is secretly spending his time off at a gay club.
Nothing like leaking some hard evidence. We strongly suspect, but we do not know. If Putin were collecting all phone records I think the bombings of recent dates would have been followed up on with something to show. That tells me Putin isn't having it all his own way.
Re:Good... (Score:5, Funny)
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He already has the corrupt government of one superpower after his head, I don't think we should ask him to go for two. Maybe a Russian whistleblower will leak loads of damning details about Putin's government surveillance and be granted asylum in the US. That would be hilariously awkward.
No, they'd swap prisoners, after each interrogated theirs fully.
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He already has the corrupt government of one superpower after his head, I don't think we should ask him to go for two. Maybe a Russian whistleblower will leak loads of damning details about Putin's government surveillance and be granted asylum in the US. That would be hilariously awkward.
Considering how Putin uses his supply of Polonium-210 (see: Alexander Litvinenko) on his enemies I don't think Edward would come back at all. Nothing puts fear in your detractors and critics like a slow, horrible death.
Besides, Putin isn't about to put Snowden in a position to expose anything more than which hand Vladimir shakes hands with.
Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Both you and "ackthpt" should be ashamed of yourself.
Unlike Mr. Edward Snowden, none of you have the guts to do the right thing, and yet, after the personal sacrifices Mr. Snowden has gone through - may even turn out to be a lifelong exile from the country he loves so much - you guys post smart-ass comments as if you are some how "better" than Mr. Snowden.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:4, Interesting)
My remark was more about equating Putin and Obama's behavior toward dissidents than it was about Snowden himself.
You may not like Snowden, but in the broader context of the IRS scandal, and now this indictment against Dinesh D'Souza [politico.com], the real people who should consider whether they bear any shame are those who re-elected Barack Obama. Not only do I reject your attempted shaming, I say the buck stops here with trying to pass it on.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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not the voters' fault.
we had no one good to vote for! same as last time, and last time, and last time.
put someone truly good up there and then call us names if that guy does not get in.
what we have is a choice of kang or kodos. either way, we lose.
and no, voting 3rd party is a non-starter. don't even go there.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:4, Insightful)
and no, voting 3rd party is a non-starter. don't even go there.
Well since you've obviously made up your mind, I'll post this for everyone else.
In many states, there is the guaranteed winner, guaranteed runner-up, and then all the "non-starter" 3rd parties. In those states, everyone voting for the guaranteed runner-up would do better to vote for any of the many 3rd parties. Sure, you won't disrupt the guaranteed winner. But you weren't going to do that anyway. Better to try and dislodge the guaranteed runner-up, send a message to those in charge.
For those of you in swing states, by all means, continue voting either D or R. Since you guys don't have a guaranteed winner, it doesn't make any sense to ask y'all to vote 3rd party.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
what we have is a choice of kang or kodos. either way, we lose.
and no, voting 3rd party is a non-starter. don't even go there.
So, let me get this straight: If you had a choice between A) a guy that will eat your face, B) another guy that will eat your face, or C) a guy you've never heard of who wants to do something like, I dunno, legalize drugs or use a tax surplus to give everybody a $10 gift card to Office Depot... you'd vote for one of the face-eaters?
Suddenly I'm starting to realize why some people in other countries think we're collectively brain damaged.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
KNOWING that we will never have a majority on a 3rd party, your whole rant is moot.
that's all.
note that I don't LIKE THIS, but I am old enough to know how the world really works. some games are not winnable because the game masters stack the cards against you.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
KNOWING that we will never have a majority on a 3rd party, your whole rant is moot.
Of course we won't as long as people keep saying things like:
voting 3rd party is a non-starter. don't even go there.
Maybe if enough people start voting 3rd party, it will be taken seriously and gain a majority.
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:5, Insightful)
and no, voting 3rd party is a non-starter. don't even go there.
“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it, than for what I don’t want and get it.”
-- Eugene V. Debs.
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*** Judged Not, Lest Thou be Judged ! *** (Score:5, Informative)
I mean, we can talk all day and say that Snowden made great personal sacrifices, but did anyone ever ask why he was working with the NSA in the first damn place?
Yes, I did, and because I did ask that question, I did some research into how what Snowden had done, and how he managed to get into that little circle under the NSA canopy.
Unlike most regular posters in /., Mr. Edward Snowden didn't graduate from some fancy university, in fact, he didn't even have a high school diploma !!
Mr. Edward Snowden studied at Anne Arundel Community College to gain the credits necessary to obtain a high-school diploma but he did not complete the coursework.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E... [wikipedia.org]
Mr. Snowden's first step action in his infiltration into the NSA circle was working as a Security Guard guarding the building in which NSA's contractors was using.
From that position he gets to know people who work with the NSA contractors, and he gets to know what kind of position is opened.
Once he learned that the NSA contractor needed sys-admins, Mr. Snowden studied very hard, self-study style, all the computer/network related skills needed to be employable as a sysadmin.
From there he gained entry to the NSA contractor's computer systems, and from there he gained access to the - alleged - millions of secret files.
I have analysed what Snowden did and I was very impressed with his determination and his other skill in hiding his real intention very very well ! That takes a lot of pre-planning, a lot of self-control, and a helluva load of patience.
As have stated, Mr. Snowden wasn't a kid from a "high caste" of the American society. In fact, his family background, - if I am allowed to put it, and advanced apology to Mr. Snowden and his family for stating the fact - has been routinely categorized as "White Trash" by many Sociologists.
But yet, unlike millions of others, Mr. Snowden loves his country, and it's His Pure Love Of The Country that he did whatever he had to do in order to gain access to the secretive evidences of the illegal activities of the Government of the United States so that he can expose it to his fellow citizens, in the hope that, one day, his beloved country may be better.
True, he worked under the canopy of NSA, and true, NSA is part of the totally despicable regime which is ruling over the nation of the United States of America.
But without getting inside the NSA, how was Edward Snowden going to gain the SOLID evidences of the dastard deeds which the invalid government of the United States of America has committed.
It has been well known for many of us that the USA is no longer free. On the surface it is, but deep inside too many damn dirty things had happened, and we, the citizens, couldn't do a squat about it.
There had been rumors floating around on the many secret programs that were in violation of the Constitution of the United States, but without solid evidences, there is NOTHING to proof.
Before Mr. Snowden's revelation, every single time when I talk to others about the (then alleged) secret programs people looked at me as if I am one of those nuts who believe in conspiracy theories.
It is because of Mr. Snowden, and thanks to his solid evidences, that today, even people who previously pooh-pooh at me whenever I talked about the illegality of the US government are coming to me to talk about the very matter that previously they thought were conspiracies.
Last, but not least, remember the adage:
"Judge not, lest thou be judged"
You have unfairly judged Mr. Edward Snowden due to his working under the NSA program. Unless you want to be judged by others the same way you have judged Mr. Snowden, I suggest that you begin your own path of redemption.
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Umm.. So I looked up Snowdens family background. His father was an officer in the Coast Guard, his mother was a clerk in the district court of Maryland. I'm not sure where you're getting the "white trash" label, but normally "white trash" doesn't consist of clerks in district court, or Coast Guard officers.
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Dear Sir,
I am not worth your respect. But there is one person that is worth all our respects - Mr. Edward Snowden.
He is the one giving us the proofs of the many dirty deeds of the government of the United States of America.
He is the one with the courage, the will, the determination, in telling the truth as it is, and he is the one, burdened with all the consequences of the courageous things that he had done for all of us.
If it wasn't Mr. Snowden, hundreds of millions of innocent people all over the world wi
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:4, Interesting)
I also knew that if I was going to be critical of it, I had better see it first hand. And after seeing it first hand, the truth of the matter for the average Iraqi citizen was that he feared Iranian troops far more than he did American troops, and his biggest fear would be American troops leaving and opening the door for Iranian troops to enter. That was the feeling I got, time after time, talking to interpreters and 10 year old English speaking kids. They loved the same idea of America I grew up loving. I did my best to be ethical, as an individual, and to this day I can't say I ever once compromised my morals. Hell, by the time I got there, we weren't even doing raids. We did "soft-knocks," meaning we knocked first and tried to communicate before any escalation of force. The only reason we'd be there is if there was a known "terrorist," that is "insurgent," that is someone who had actively tried to kill people who did not deserve it or tried to kill soldiers. And the quandary in all this for me is that many times this information was not received through fancy, high-tech intelligence gathering methods. It was received through good old-fashioned tattle-tales from the same neighborhood, people who needed something we could give them (usually money). We did some good things now and then, too, you know, things I am proud to say I was a part of, like handing out bundles of your precious tax dollars to folks who would 1) never forget it and 2) use it for something more than a new car in their driveway or a new television on their wall. I actually think that one day Iraq will be a modern, booming country with much more promise than many parts of America, and I'm not sure it could have been that way if Saddam had stayed in power. That's only my opinion, and it's not based on any sort of data (this is a thing I am trying to overcome this year on a general level).
But to you, Citizen, I would like to apologize for having been a part of that unethical war. And I would like to apologize for the disability checks they send me. In hindsight, I'd probably have found another job if I had thought about it longer. But I wouldn't have commented on the war anymore, I wouldn't have felt equipped to. I was tired of people in my family telling me that 1) I couldn't have an opinion because I had not been there and 2) I simply did not have what it took to be a soldier. That last part is exactly why I went infantry. I'm not a violent person.
So, where do you want Snowden to go ?? (Score:5, Informative)
My remark was more about equating Putin and Obama's behavior toward dissidents than it was about Snowden himself.
This world is occupied by 4.5 big thugs - China, Russia, USA, Japan, plus UK, which can only be rated as 0.5big, since they are living in their past glory.
USA is trying its best to hunt down Snowden. Japan and Britain are USA's lap dogs.
That leave China and Russia being the two entities left in this planet big and fierce and crazy enough to stand against USA.
So, where do you want Snowden to go ?
Sweden ? that another lap dog of USA ?
Bolivia ? Whose presidential plane was forced grounded by yet another USA lap dog (Spain) ?
I know very well (and I am not the only one in this) that Russia is far from the ideal location for Snowden to seek refuge in, but short of a miracle (that Obama and all his gang of traitors are thrown to jail), Mr. Edward Snowden is facing a stark future of being on the run all his life.
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Mr. Edward Snowden is facing a stark future of being on the run all his life.
At a really high level of abstraction, Snowden's acts are kind of like the invasion of Iraq; both Snowden and W undertook decisive acts with tangible historical impacts.
Hero? Goat? Who can say, sooner than a couple of decades?
The quite obvious thing for Snowden to do is get his name on a ballot and win election to Congress. That's tantamount to the voters giving the guy a pardon.
Re:So, where do you want Snowden to go ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
This world is occupied by 4.5 big thugs - China, Russia, USA, Japan, plus UK, which can only be rated as 0.5big, since they are living in their past glory.
Japan.... a thug? Really? And not just a 1/2 "thug" like you describe the UK, but a big thug? That is fascinating. Could you expand on that a bit? Between ninety to seventy years ago you would have been on solid ground, when Japan was at war with and occupying many of its neighbors, but today? How does that "thuggery" play out? Japan hasn't been fighting overseas wars like the UK has (to the credit of the UK). Why do you describe Japan as a thug?
Re:So, where do you want Snowden to go ?? (Score:5, Informative)
Japan gives a lot of aid and comfort to the other thug nations. It's like helping someone dump a body and cover their tracks.
Japan has long been one of the more generous nations for foreign aid and its military has been pretty much limited to almost purely national defense of Japan itself since WW2. Although they can be highly competitive in business, I think it is hard to build a good case that Japan is currently a "thug" nation. Taco Cowboy's comment I can understand as Chinese anti-Japanese sentiment that has existed since at least the 1930s. But yours?
China and Russia aren't especially friendly to Japan, whereas the US is. That leaves you portraying the US and UK as thugs, but not necessarily China or Russia. (The current Chinese regime is the same one that killed 60,000,000 of its own people and is trying to seize territory held by Japan even while it (China) is trying to claim the entire South China Sea [wsj.com] as its territory, stepping on its neighbors.)
So you are basically condemning your own country again, seemingly above others, and it isn't clear why. The influence of school reading assignments, perhaps? [amazon.com] It's a pity that contemporary American education tends to be unfavorable towards some views [amazon.com].
American History 101 [nationalreview.com]
National Review Online:So how different is your history of the United States from, say, Howard Zinn’s?
Larry Schweikart: They are as different as night and day. We assume that people usually mean what they say; that they don’t always have hidden motivations; and that ideas are more important than “class” or “race” or “gender.” Under more normal times, our book would simply be entitled, A History of the United States, because it is accurate.
NRO:So a “Patriot’s Guide” isn’t all good?
Schweikart: Absolutely not. As we say in the intro/jacket flap, we reject “My Country, Right or Wrong,” but we equally reject “My Country, Always Wrong.” I think you’ll find us quite critical of such aspects of our past-such as the Founders’ unwillingness to actually act on slavery on at least three separate occasions; or about Teddy Roosevelt’s paternalistic regulations and his anti-business policies. On the other hand, as conservatives, we nevertheless destroy the myth that FDR “knew” about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance. Instead, we try to always put the past in the context of the time–why did people act then as they did, and was that typical?
History Lies [nationalreview.com]
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Also the problem is far deeper than the current President and framing it in a way that attempts to blame one man looks both partisan and hopelessly naive.
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Both you and "ackthpt" should be ashamed of yourself.
Unlike Mr. Edward Snowden, none of you have the guts to do the right thing, and yet, after the personal sacrifices Mr. Snowden has gone through - may even turn out to be a lifelong exile from the country he loves so much - you guys post smart-ass comments as if you are some how "better" than Mr. Snowden.
Bah! Foo! and Arg, to you Sir Lackasenseahumour. Feh, too.
Pity you can't read that post more than only one, very negative way.
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Did I just fall through a wormhole into 1982 or is there a wormhole between your ears?
Re:Are you guys trying to threaten Snowden ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Russia has decided to make its relationship with the US, UK, and NATO in general complicated. (And perhaps Australia as well / in time.) While they cooperate in various matters such as terrorism and trade, the Russians have resumed various Soviet practices, such as certain foreign policy stands, and probing Western defenses with bombers and submarines. To that you can add making various threats regarding nuclear strikes against NATO countries. (Former Soviet sample [medium.com].) Perhaps you simply don't bother reading about such things?
Russian bombers’ secret UK missions ‘not a friendly act’ [express.co.uk]
Russian Bombers Perform Simulated "Strikes" on Sweden, U.S. [thenewamerican.com]
I would expect you to be at least somewhat acquainted with the various acts of Chinese encroachment and aggression against its neighbors. Various members of the Chinese government have also threatened nuclear strikes against the US. Perhaps you've heard that US forces are now providing greater aid in the defense of Australia?
Both China and Russia are "great powers" in the classic sense, and pursue their interests. Sometimes that will mean working with the West, sometimes against it. China's power is ascending as they build towards a navy with four aircraft carrier battle groups, the first one now available, and India is right behind them. The US seems to be heading towards a much less capable navy than today, and Australia decommissioned its last aircraft carrier long ago.
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Are you meaning to say that Russia nee USSR didn't illegally invade Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Finland, Romania, Iran, Afghanistan, Georgia? Even more than just invading them, many of those countries were either annexed or had territory stolen from them. I'm pretty sure the people of Eastern Europe weren't thrilled about being forced into communist governments as well, nor are they thrilled about being threatened today with Russian nuclear strikes for trying to protect themselves from Iran. Did
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A bit more for you.
Russian and Chinese espionage in Australia [newsweekly.com.au] - News Weekly, August 18, 2007
Chinese spies currently outnumber the Soviet intelligence presence that existed in Australia during the Cold War, it was revealed late last year. .... Last month, The Australian's Cameron Stewart revealed that the number of Russian spies in Australia had increased to near Cold War levels, "forcing ASIO to respond by training a new generation of counter-espionage officers" (The Australian, July 23 and 24, 2007).
Canada spy case rocks ASIO [smh.com.au]
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Russia is an adversary of the US? That's quaint Cold War thinking. China is a US adversary? Last I checked, China is our largest trading partner (in terms of imports).
If you bother to check you will find that both China and Russia have nuclear weapons pointed at the US and members of their governments make explicit threats. Russia regularly probes US and NATO defenses with bombers and submarines, and the Chinese have their own charms.
The US and NATO countries used to trade with both during the Cold War, so you may not have this all nailed down yet.
Sometimes Russia and China cooperate, sometimes they don't. Neither make themselves actual enemies at the moment, but neith
Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's on here because Snowden is the biggest whistleblower of his generation, and this article will get generate views and comments for a less-than-interesting Friday afternoon/evening.
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information, otherwise Snowden had a year to find a new place to avoid a drone strike. One wonders if he made a deal, or the Russians just enjoy annoying the US.
Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (Score:4, Insightful)
Or both.
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My bet is on annoying the US, hell if where Putin I would.
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I would have thought that the Russians had no love whatsoever for the US and that they would like seeing Snowden release everything he has and leave the US with egg on their face.
Or are the Russians using the same tricks and tools as the US (under different code names) and that's why they dont want Snowden to speak out?
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my theory is that the Russians have less qualms and impediments to using the same types of tricks and tools as the US, however perhaps less technical ability. I say that latter thinking of Silicon Valley in the US and the history of the internet, though like the moon-landing style got-there-firsts, perhaps now the internet is mature enough that an early lead has evaporated.
Back to your question though- another reason to consider the Russians not wanting Snowden to speak out is because it would anger the U.
Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. [techdirt.com] Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
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Last time I checked, Russia's continual asylum was conditional on not releasing more information,
Easy for him to live up to since he gave the entire trove to Greenwald, et al. Snowden hasn't released anything since, because he doesn't have anything left. [techdirt.com] Same reason all the talk about the FSB getting access to the files is also baseless speculation.
I would be naive to assume that Greenwald has the only electronic copy of these documents. The speculation is Snowden could have stashed them in other safe places, to which he would have access. I almost guarantee the govt has done an automated search of the popular cloud sharing sites for keywords. The recent rumors that he planned this ahead of time with Russia is most likely wild speculation by an irresponsible congress critter. If the US knew that as fact, they wouldn't have told us.
Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. ... ... Please, editors, let's leave these purely-political stories off of the front page. I don't dispute that they have value, but they just don't belong here.
While I don't disagree that slashdot seems to put trollish/public-subset-opinion-polling/alarmist style headlines all over the front page more often than optimal, I have to disagree here about Snowden. I believe the Snowden revelations, and the way they came about, and continue to transpire as so, have so paradigm-shifted the computer and network security landscape, that articles such as this one are more than appropriate. First, it's merely a side-effect conveniency issue. While yes, some of your points may have merit, you have to forgive a bit that the slashdot audience really is that interested in how the Snowden saga transpires. I mean, this is some Epic War and Peace Shit going on here. A martyr being martyred slowly over years. How exactly, and how much pain and vindication end up in that story, I really think will have a profound place in the history of the internet's chapter in the history of humanity. This is a *BIG DEAL*.
And even setting asside that real-politik drama and the slashdot audience's 'non-technical' interest, you must look at the legitimate 'technical' interest of the slashdot audience. How Snowden is handled by the overwhelming powers that be, truly does shape how many of us here will be developing technology throughout the remaining future of our carreers. At some point, one is tempted to say - 'if computer security matters are treated this profoundly by the un-(directly)-opposable powers that be, then you know what, I'm actually going to stop worrying about whether the firmware in my BIGNAMEBRAND computer system or consumer device is a security risk or not. But if Snowden is fully vindicated, and reclaims the rights and protections of a free citizen of the United States of America, including rigourous protection of his freedom of speech, then I may well say- I'd like to spend more of my carreer working on more secure open source firmware.
Dunno...
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I can understand the earlier developments relating to this whole incident being on Slashdot. There was the technological aspect to it. But at this point, this is purely political wrangling. There's no technology involved here. There's no science involved here. There's no mathematics involved here. Just realpolitik.
The "technological" angle is really the issue of the US government sub-contracting technological work, and giving those people no legal protections that you'd expect for someone working for the government. This is something that everyone in the tech field should think seriously about when considering doing government contract work.
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http://cryptome.org/2013/11/sn... [cryptome.org]
Without Snowden Slashdot would have been filled with years of the same old boring sock puppets. Bland, safe, bulk daily posting stories about trivial technical matters as they build mod points.
Now we understand the old talking points of:
Data sets are too big, te
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Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up [torontosun.com] for a possible trip to Mars, why put Snowden at the head of the line?
Re:Seems simple to me (Score:4, Funny)
Can't we privately send him to Mars with a 3D printer? He'll do fine over there and he'll be in a new paradise far away from decaying Earth.
Is going to Mars such a horrible thing? 200,000 people have signed up [torontosun.com] for a possible trip to Mars, why put Snowden at the head of the line?
First of all Mars [wikipedia.org] is in the United States. He can't go there. Second, the population is nowhere near 200K. It's probably closer to 2,000.
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Only if you have to go there with one of the 200,000 people who have signed up. (Except for the few hot chicks who did it for fun.)
I hope "hot chick" is way down on the list of things they look for in an application - a "hot chick" is probably the person I'd least want to live with on mars, and I'd chose the nerdy chick (or dude) that sits in the basement all day building Arduino projects.
That's not to say that there are no nerdy hot chicks, but they don't seem to be the norm. Plus, my only relationship with a "hot chick" ended dramatically with a visit from the police, and almost a restraining order.
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I can never tell if people are joking, but are you mentally ill or just severely stupid?
You'll have to give a little more context if you'd like me to answer your insightful question - I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Am I crazy and/or stupid for suggesting that being banished to Mars can't be all that bad if 200,000 people would volunteer, or is it because I implied that Snowden shouldn't get a free trip to Mars when hundreds of thousands of people are in line in front of him?
Re:Seems simple to me (Score:5, Funny)
Hey who let James Clapper on slashdot
Re:Come stand trial. (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is that the way the laws are written, he would not be able to mount an effective defense against the charges. He would only be allowed to (basically) answer the circumstances around his alleged taking of those NSA files and would be forbidden from bringing any sort of argument regarding the public's right to know, the government's own wrongdoing exposed by those leaked files, and such and so forth. He is obviously guilty of taking the files so it is a guaranteed guilty verdict.
There is no point for him to return until the laws allow for some type of whistleblower or public interest defense, which they currently do not.
Espionage Act of 1917 doesn't protect whistleblowe (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, this was handled yesterday in: http://news.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
http://online.wsj.com/news/art... [wsj.com]
Highlights:
In the Thomas Drake case, the administration retroactively marked documents as classified, saying, 'he knew they should have been classified.'
In the Bradley Manning case, the jury wasn't allowed to see what information was leaked.
Re:Come stand trial. (Score:4, Informative)
The US bill of rights and constitution only applies to US citizens.
Did you even read it? It says "persons" or "people" everywhere, except for the qualifications of office for president, senators and representatives, the federal supremacy clause, and the privileges and immunities clause, where it says "citizens". So the distinction is quite explicit and obviously intentional.
There's plenty of judicial precedent here, as well. Any person in US jurisdiction, whether citizen or not, has the rights and freedoms outlined in the Constitution, except for those few that are exclusively reserved to citizens.
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Bad call.
Spend life in relative freedom, eating non-spicy Russian restaurants.
V.S.
Spend life in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison.
Re:Come stand trial. (Score:5, Insightful)
The US does have some protections for whistleblowers, but none he can use - national security information is specifically excluded, as is the public interest defence. Any trial would consist of this:
Judge: "Did you release classified information?"
Defense: "Only in the public interest."
Prosecution: "Public interest defense is not considered a valid cause for releasing classified information."
Judge: "Guilty. I sentence you to six hundred years in maximum security."
There isn't really anything he could say. That's even if the trial were fair - and it wouln't be. Chances are almost all the documentation will be classified so high neither he nor his lawyers would be permitted to see it, so he'll be defending against evidence he can't even know about. The only good thing for him is that he was a civilian contractor, so he at least would get a trial, rather than a military tribunal.
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It's worse than that. He's already stated that he took the job in the first place to find damning information to release. That is one of the details about the whole Snowden saga that causes me reserve in using the term "whistleblower" to describe him.
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One more thing (Score:4, Informative)
Calling your bluff (Score:3)
Passed over three times for promotion for doing his appointed job and representing somebody unpopular.
Unfortunately the link to the marine newsletter given as a citation is dead, but you don't have to be spoon fed do you? He's been interviewed a few times and some of those times were presumably for print media, or you may be able to find podcasts of radio interviews.
Of course I've just wasted my time because you'll find another way to string me along if you are a troll.
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Whistle-blower protection is really only usable then the bad actor is the contractor and not the government. In that case the government can flex its legal muscle to exact punishment in the name of the public good. When the government is the one sanctioning illegal activity, it has every reason to create an unfair playing field for anyone who dares to point out the nakedness of emperors.
Re:Come stand trial. (Score:5, Insightful)
Possible, but very, very unlikely. The prosecution would be careful to block any jury member during selection who appears sympathetic to Snowden, citing grounds of bias.
Re:Come stand trial. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's BS that Snowden is unwilling to come back to the US to stand trial. I'm sure there are plenty of great lawyers who would work pro bono to take his landmark case, and if he was willing to fight, he might be able to affect more change to the government spying program and achieve the goals he set out to reach.
Even great lawyers can't do anything when the evidence is hidden or heavily redacted in the name of national security. "Your honor, we'd like to introduce this document showing that the NSA was overstepping its legal bounds" "Objection! That document is classified top secret, so instead you can use this redacted version that is completely black except for the words "We", "love", and "freedom".
It's especially difficult when the lawyer is going up against an agency that has already shown itself willing to lie directly to congress -- supposedly the people that are overseeing the agency. If they don't mind lying to congress, why wouldn't they lie to a court?
With the deck stacked that heavily against him, what hope is there for any sort of fair trial? Esepcially when he's guilty of what he's accused of -- stealing and releasing classified documents. Without whistleblower protection laws to support him, the reason he stole the documents is immaterial.
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If he came back he would die mysteriously and painfully inside a week of "natural causes".
Or be locked in some deep hole in ground and torcherd the same as Manning awaiting trial for three years until they break him.
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You could be on God or Satan's own legal team, and it wouldn't make difference. There is no way to have a fair trial in the US on this matter:
https://pressfreedomfoundation... [pressfreed...dation.org]
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What a load of crap. We have already seen exactly what happens with regard to Manning Trials. Every single bit of evidence that demonstrates adherence to rule of law with regard to exposing crimes is buried under national security. Not one iota of evidence proving adherence to law is allowed. A public joke, a disgrace to justice, US law proving the corrupt money and power based nature of the system of injustice.
How stupid can you be to cite principles of justice with the US wealth and power based courts.
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Except that stuff happens all the time, with a bunch of different countries as the source, and many predate Snowden's events by a very, very long time.
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Anyone think it's more than a little coincidental that Snowden seeks asylum in Russia and then some Russian hackers stole all that credit card data from Target? Knowledge of backdoors and security vulnerabilities is pretty much the NSA's mission statement. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if he sold some information - the guy's gotta eat.
no just no.
Russia is stuffed to the gills with mellicious hacker working for the Russian mob, because Russia doesn't care about hacker targeting other countries.
Snowden fled to left for Hong Kong the free-ish part of China first and handed over his copies of the documents the Glen Greenwald and Laura Poitrus. When thing looked like china would turn him over rather than piss of their biggest trading partner the US, a member of wikileak arranged to get Snowden out of China and into Russia. Why Russia because
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That's not even worthy of a Flamebait mod--that's just stupid.
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I don't care what you call it/try to spin it.
He should be tried and executed like any traitor.
The "should be tried and executed like any traitor" clause should be applied to Dianne Feinstein, James Clapper and all the rest of the bastards who have knowingly violated the Constitution of the United States of America, to the detriment of the nation of the United States of America and to the hundreds of millions of the citizens of the United States of America !
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However, his revelations about NSA spying outside the USA have caused severe and lasting damage to the USA's reputation, and to the USA's ability to collect intelligence that it needs to defend it's interests
His revelations about NSA spying outside the USA have caused severe and lasting damage to the USA's ability to betray its allies.
The USA now has the oportunity to begin to earn the trust of its people so it can defend its national interests.
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Oh Please!
Do you not think the USA's allies were not spying on the USA? The French continue to conduct large scale industrial espionage against the USA to this day. They just have not had the whistle blown on them (yet.) It is pretty common knowledge that Israel spies on the USA continuously.
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I think he is relatively safe if he stays in Russia. "Relatively". Should he leave there, he should prepare to be dragged into a van with a canvas sack over his head -- the subject of an "extraordinary rendition." (This is of course illegal. I don't condone it, but I do expect it.) He's barely safe in Russia, and probably not safe anywhere else. He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Given that he's already said that all the docs will be released if he comes to an untimely demise, there seems to be little incentive for the USA to extradite him unwillingly, and much incentive for the USA to keep him alive and well.
He made his own bed, now he gets to sleep in it.
Which is why many people consider his acts heroric -- he sacrificed his own welfare and safety to reveal illegal activities by the US government.
Re:good points / bad points (Score:5, Insightful)
My point is that he did not need to reveal all of it, just exposing the domestic surveillance would have been enough... Congress and the average American don't give one tiny shit if the NSA bugged Angela Merkel's phone, and many are probably secretly pleased that we did and got away with it until this guy opened the kimono on that.
My question is how was releasing that information helpful? While certainly unethical, bugging Merkel's phone (for instance) was NOT illegal under US law, and not forbidden under the NSA's charter, while the domestic data collection clearly was both illegal and forbidden. I applaud the exposure of the NSA's illegal activities, but I abhor the exposure of their legal ones.
This is why I believe he had other motives. Snowden is not a hero, he's an attention whore.
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The treason definition is in the constitution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]
In this context, I would think "adhere" means something along the lines of "devotion" -- the only country Snowden showed devotion to was the US. He cer
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Merriam-Webster's first definition of "treason" is
"the betrayal of trust."
Snowden signed an agreement to keep things he learned on the job secret, and he betrayed that trust. Again, I don't disagree with him blowing the whistle on the NSA's illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens going about their business here in the USA. My beef is that he unveiled way more than that, way more than he needed to, and I do not support that. I believe that was wrong.
My opinion is that his behavior cross
Re:good points / bad points (Score:4, Funny)
Ah yes -- the definition of Treason in Webster's trumps that in the US Constitution. You must be a member of Obama's legal team.
So where are you coming from here? (Score:3)
Here's a question to sort things out since you are using your own personal definition. Do you think that Oliver North was a traitor for knowingly selling weapons to Hezbolla less than a year after they had killed over a hundred US Marines? If not North then why Snowden?
That question should really establish whether you stand for "King" first and "Country" second or not. North put "King"
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Yours is a thoughtful reply, and I thank you for that.
However, I must disagree with your "elite corps owning politicians" being the root of this problem. That's a whole different problem, I don't believe the politicians knew what the NSA was doing at all. The NSA was running totally rogue, and the unlawful surveillance of US citizens on US soil -- with Congress having no clue at all -- clearly demonstrates that. Our corporate bought-and-paid-for politicians stack things in favor of their corporate spons
Re:Your regularly-scheduled Snowden story (Score:4, Interesting)
Just in case you'd forgotten that Snowden still exists, here's Slashdot to stir up all that nice outrage.
So what? Snowden is "one of us" - I dunno if he had a slashdot account or not, he did post regularly on ars technica's forums. A great many of us here can identify with him - technical, libertarian, etc.
Of all the places on the net, slashdot is one of the few where snowden's personal story is just as relevant as role in the surveillance state debate.
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?????
Please make this list. I'd like to know what the equivalent is in the US of jailing a rock band for free speech is, jailing people protesting the president, and making talking about homosexuality in a positive light illegal.
Please, post the list. The US isn't perfect, but I seriously challenge you to post a list of freedom of expression opression that's anywhere near what's going on in Russia.
And are you really so certain Snowden won't be treated like a pawn in international relations? He's a chess