London Black Cabs Threaten Chaos To Stop Uber 417
Bruce66423 (1678196) writes in with news about a planned protest by London black-cab drivers against Uber. "London black-cab drivers are planning to cause gridlock in the city to protest against car service Uber. The Licensed Taxi Drivers Association complains that Uber's drivers are using a smartphone app to calculate fares despite it being illegal for private vehicles to be fitted with taximeters. Transport for London has declined to intervene, because it disagrees that there has been a breach of the law. LTDA now plans to force the issue by holding the action in early June. 'Transport for London not enforcing the Private Hire Vehicles Act is dangerous for Londoners,' Steve McNamara, LTDA's general secretary, told the BBC. 'I anticipate that the demonstration against TfL's handling of Uber will attract many many thousands of cabs and cause severe chaos, congestion and confusion across the metropolis.'"
Awesome!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Does that mean the entire LBC can be defined as a terror organization and placed in whatever Britain's equivalent of Guantanamo Bay is?
This could be a doubly pointed demonstration: Uber becomes the defacto 'taxi' service of London, and the government shows exactly what will happen if anybody things to provoke demonstrations which might infringe upon the steady operation of infrastructure :)
Re:Awesome!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Does that mean the entire LBC can be defined as a terror organization and placed in whatever Britain's equivalent of Guantanamo Bay is?
This could be a doubly pointed demonstration: Uber becomes the defacto 'taxi' service of London, and the government shows exactly what will happen if anybody things to provoke demonstrations which might infringe upon the steady operation of infrastructure :)
The problem with the uber drivers though is that they may have no clue where they are going. These cabbies doing the protesting are Londons black cab drivers, that means they have passed "The Knowledge" know london pretty intimately:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... [wikipedia.org]
http://www.theknowledgetaxi.co... [theknowledgetaxi.co.uk]
This does mean I entirely agree with their protest, but comparing them to any other taxi drivers elsewhere is not a great comparison because no other Taxis in the world are expected to pass such a ridiculously difficult exam first.
You might say this is pointless now that Sat-Navs are so ubiquitous, but I would still say it is useful to be able to ask for a destination by something like "that pub off chancery lane with the yellow sign" and he instantly names it and drives you there. It is also useful if you get the road name you are going to slightly wrong and can't find it with Google maps, just jump in cab. I have actually done this one night when I had been drinking and the cabbie had a right laugh about taking me somewhere that was only two minutes away, but I had already spent 20 minutes cluelessly walking around so was more than happy to pay him the minimum fare.
Most of the time London Black Cabs are pretty awesome, if a little expensive.
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The problem with the uber drivers though is that they may have no clue where they are going.
So what? Uber isn't trying to ban black cabs, they'd still exist - and still have "The Knowledge" - and thus if they're so much better than Uber, people would choose to use them. I.e. if you wanted your taxi driver to go to "that pub off chancery lane with the yellow sign", you'd still be able to hire a black cab and pay a premium for "The Knowledge". But if you already know where you're going, or it's someplace ob
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Wait, how does a cab charge someone that they did not give a ride to? Are there services where you can pre-pay for a cab ride? Who would be stupid enough to do this? In the US, at least, cab services are so unreliable. I had a scheduled pick up show up 30 mins late, even with me on the phone guiding him to my house the entire time. "Wow I have never been to this neighborhood before." "Wtf, is this your first time in this city as a cab driver?" "No, I have lived here all my life." "wtf wtf wtf".
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Are there services where you can pre-pay for a cab ride?
Actually yes. The only one I'm familiar with is the 'free ride home' program. It's not actually free, but you pay a nominal fee(with the rest picked up by various donations) and get a card good for a ride home from the bar. The idea is that you can't spend the card on booze, thus always have a ride home without 'having' to drive.
Other than that, like in a lot of cases if you call ahead of time you can sometimes negotiate a better deal.
Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:3, Insightful)
What these drivers are asking for is a special privilege to be a superior class of citizen: To be spared any natural competition.
And what they're doing is not protesting. It's throwing a tantrum.
Re: Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:5, Insightful)
This (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, in reality, you want the taxi services to be regulated. I've been to coutries where they are not, and the taxis there range from "you will get cheated" to "you will get raped, killed, and robbed". And that's a fact. No way a foreigner can use the local taxis. You free the business completely, competition will drive the prices low (which is a good thing), but the low prices will force the drivers to cheat, steal, and rob, as the only ones making a profit will be the ones who do. And no, i'm not a taxi driver. I hate having to pay the local super high taxi fares, but on the other hand, the service is first class. They are on time when preordered, the cars are nice and clean and safe. The drivers won't rob you, beat you, cheat you, or anything. They actually know their area, they also have navigators in every car, as well as the taxi centrals help. They are not allowed to refuse a drive because they don't feel like going to a direction where they won't find anyone to come back the other way.
Re: This (Score:2)
You can still get raped and cheated with London taxis.
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Huh?
Getting raped by a taxi is a serious issue.
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Huh? Getting raped by a taxi is a serious issue.
Not saying it is not, I was referring to the cheating aspect of the argument.
.. must be what happened to the Goatse guy ..)
(raped by a taxi
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Ah, ok - you just want black cabs... fine...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... [telegraph.co.uk]
http://content.met.police.uk/N... [police.uk]
Again, 2 minutes of google.
Why so defensive of black cabs ?
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All the problems that you mention are overcome by Uber. Your driver has to register and there is a log of who your driver was. If he robs (or worse) you he'll be caught. He's not some anonymous guy driving around in a car. His picture is shown to you before he picks you up so if the wrong guy comes you refuse the ride.
I get what you're saying, by the way. My wife is from the Philippines, and pretty much all the problems you describe are problems in the Philippines. But, again, taxi drivers can take ad
Re:This (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This (Score:5, Funny)
>it taught me there are a lot of snobby, rude, cunts in this city dressed as respectable people.
Isn't that the whole point of dressing as a "respectable person"?
Re:This (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the problem there might be more with the local law enforcement. 99.999% of society does not undergo background tests and yet do not go around killing and raping to make a little extra on the side. What is so unique about cabbies that that they will do so, if they are not super heavily regulated?
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I think the problem there might be more with the local law enforcement.
That is certainly part of the problem. And part of what often makes it easier for law enforcement to evaluate complaints and problems is an expectation of a certain accepted standard of behavior -- which regulations can sometimes help.
99.999% of society does not undergo background tests and yet do not go around killing and raping to make a little extra on the side.
Well, you zoomed in on the most extreme cases, didn't you? Mostly it's about the cheating that GP mentioned. The raping and murdering are extreme cases in extreme places -- usually, as you say, where law enforcement is problematic. But cheating people? That's much harder
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I hate having to pay the local super high taxi fares, but on the other hand, the service is first class. They are on time when preordered, the cars are nice and clean and safe. The drivers won't rob you, beat you, cheat you, or anything. They actually know their area, they also have navigators in every car, as well as the taxi centrals help. They are not allowed to refuse a drive because they don't feel like going to a direction where they won't find anyone to come back the other way.
Problem is, where I live, cabs are regulated, but the service is anything but first class. They're not on time, they're not nice and clean (seems like DC usually gets other cities' worn out cabs). At night, sometimes drivers turn off their meters. They're not allowed to refuse taking you to a destination, but they do anyway. They're not allowed to force passengers to share rides, but they do anyway. They are legally required to take credit cards, but they lie and say their machines are broken (until you say
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Sth America's a big place. which countries?
I caught numerous cabs across Argentina and never had a problem.
Colectivos in Chile are cool. I think I paid upfront but the idea is you share the cost with several other passengers (strangers).
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I understand why there are regulations cab drivers must follow, but there is no argument beyond the safety issues, and those can be resolved without appeasing the drivers' desire to keep regulations as strict as they are. The fact that regulations exist does not mean they need to persist in their current form. A
Re: Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:5, Insightful)
To play the devil's advocate, it is bad for tourism and business if you don't have a taxi system that can be relied on to be safe and clean. And, from the tourism perspective, appearance of so is very important. This is most likely rooted in history, especially for a place like London, but I can see it making sense for a city like London to want to ensure that tourists can count on having a pleasant safe ride at a predictable price when taking a taxi.
Not that an Uber ride isn't necessarily so, but without licensing and regulation, there is no way to ensure you have that consistent experience, and even if Uber sets standards, they are outside the control of the city.
I think a little competition is good, but you still need a way to ensure that licensed, regulated taxis are still viable so that tourists and business travelers feel safe.
As a taxi driver in London I would be pretty pissed off if I had just spent three years of my life studying to pass a test and was laying out $500 a year to run my business and had to meet rigid standards because I was abiding by the law and others were allowed to ignore those same laws.
Re:Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:4, Informative)
What these drivers are asking for is a special privilege to be a superior class of citizen: To be spared any natural competition.
And what they're doing is not protesting. It's throwing a tantrum.
In saying that, you demonstrate that you have no idea how good London cabbies are at their job, an dhow hard they have to work to get to that position.
They are vetted and must have no criminal record, and they are regulated by the Public Carriage Office
The Knowledge is notoriously difficult, and leads to them having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the streets of central London - something like every street in a 10 mile radius of Charing Cross, every hotel, cinema, theatre, etc. Every time they've been put into competition with a SatNav, the route they calculate *in their head* is superior to anything that technology can come up with.
There's no way some guy with a smartphone app can be seen as anything like a peer for a proper London Cabbie.
Re: Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:2, Insightful)
Then the London cabbies shouldn't have any reason to be concerned about competition from Uber.
Re:Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who the F gets to live without competition? (Score:5, Insightful)
I just don't get the argument, "Option A is better, so people should not be allowed to choose Option B." I understand your argument, but if the cabbies driving the black cabs are so much better than the competition from Uber, why do they need government regulation to keep Uber out of the market?
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I don't claim to know much about London's particular situation, but let's consider your argument in the abstract, since that's what you apparently want.
People keep arguing that London's black cabs are better than Uber and therefore Uber should not be allowed to compete with them. If London's black cabs are everything you say they are (and I believe you are correct), why shouldn't people be free to take the risks with Uber if they feel the lower cost is worth the risk?
Okay, let's apply this to medicine. Probably 90% of illnesses people show up to a doctor's office with don't require a true medical expert to treat. Some random guy who learned some stuff on the internet and maybe took a few courses on common diseases could probably address most problems.
Should we give prescribing privileges for medication to someone lik
Buggy whips (Score:4, Insightful)
We might not see this for a number of years, but what will make me laugh out loud will be when on the eve of driverless cars these same cabbies will inform us that, "People will feel safer and prefer a human cabbie."
As for Uber, the key of any new regulations should not be to protect cabbies, but to protect customers. I suspect that some dark spots with Uber will show up and thus need solving. But one of those dark spots is not the providing of much needed competition in our city's streets.
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Re:Buggy whips (Score:4, Insightful)
This is called regulatory capture when it is the government but as Ebay shows it can happen in the private sector as well. The key difference is that(in theory) we can vote on the politicians who make the rules for cabbies.
Re:Buggy whips (Score:5, Insightful)
The main difference is that if an ebay seller screws up your order of pogs , nobody dies. If you a going to be carrying passengers, you'd better have a good driving record, a chauffeur's license and a vehicle that receives regular mandated safety inspection.
And no, you can't trust the free market to self regulate. We've had airlines literally delay the installation of fixes to critical safety flaws because downing the jet to make the repairs cost too much time/money and hundreds have died as a result. If left entirely to the free market, the airlines would cut fleet maintenance to the absolute minimum to keeps the airplane in the sky, and if one of them falls from the sky every so often and crashes due to poor maintenance, it would still be cheaper to pay off the victims than to replace parts at the proper intervals.
The libertarians would say the answer to this is to choose an airline with the lowest fatality rate.
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The main difference is that if an ebay seller screws up your order of pogs , nobody dies.
Depends on what is selling. There are plenty of things that you could buy off ebay that are capable of killing you if they're defective.
If you a going to be carrying passengers, you'd better have a good driving record, a chauffeur's license and a vehicle that receives regular mandated safety inspection.
Sounds good, although someone with a nasty car will get bad feedback, etc. Problem should take care of itself.
And no, you can't trust the free market to self regulate. We've had airlines literally delay the installation of fixes to critical safety flaws because downing the jet to make the repairs cost too much time/money and hundreds have died as a result. If left entirely to the free market, the airlines would cut fleet maintenance to the absolute minimum to keeps the airplane in the sky, and if one of them falls from the sky every so often and crashes due to poor maintenance, it would still be cheaper to pay off the victims than to replace parts at the proper intervals.
And, yet, airplane crashes still happen. The reason is that everybody still makes the calculation that you're talking about there, and we rely on lawsuit judgements to make it more expensive to pay off the victims.
You're going to hate this part: you make the exac
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Uber has been operating in my city for many years now (we were one of the first to get it) and if there are any dark spots, I sure haven't seen them. You get a clean, polite driver driving a clean, well-maintained car. If for some reason you don't get a clean, polite driver driving a clean, well-maintained car you can give feedback to Uber letting them know this. I would imagine that they axe any problematic drivers fairly quickly, because reports of bad ones are rare and I haven't had any (nor has anyone I
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The one thing that gets people is that they go to a supply / demand bidding system during ultra-high-demand periods like New Year's Eve. They put warnings all over the place when they do this, but prices can get VERY, VERY high.
Might sound strange, but I'm okay with this. Helps limit demand to only the essential. Personally, I prefer the service be available if you're willing to pay the price than for the drivers to decide that they'd rather have new year's off as well combined with insane demand resulting in effectively NO service for most people.
As for the black cabs, I kind of hope that the plan backfires on them as people blame THEM and not Uber for the disruption, thus calling for sanctions/loss of privilege for them, not u
Re: Buggy whips (Score:5, Insightful)
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What you, and your fellow Americans posting here, seem to forget (or perhaps you do not know?) is that with London black cabs, you already get a clean and well maintained car with a professional driver. On top of that, said driver actually knows his way around, as he had to prove this when he was given his license, and continuously have to prove it again when he is tested on a regular basis.
In that case, they've got nothing to worry about - their superior service at a competitive cost (I notice you didn't mention that - their prices are competitive, aren't they?) will result in them out-competing Uber's inferior service. Of course, their actions demonstrate that they are afraid - presumably, they're afraid that Uber will give consumers the choice to pay less, even if it means the car's a bit dirtier, and the driver a bit more ignorant. After all, the consumers can't actually be allowed any cho
Re: Buggy whips (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't live in London, but I have been there (and elsewhere in the UK) many times. Yes, the ubiquitous black cab is nice, and the drivers are competent. The question really is this: Should the government prohibit consumers from paying someone else for a ride?
As long as the customer understands that they are basically hitching a ride with an unknown private person, I just don't see the problem. If I want the assurance of a black cab, I'll flag one down. If I don't care, then I don't care - it's really not much different from sticking my thumb out and hitching a ride, except I have some assurance that someone will actually stop and pick me up.
Re: Buggy whips (Score:4, Insightful)
The question really is this: Should the government prohibit consumers from paying someone else for a ride?
If only this was the question.
The government is regulating the market at the moment, however Uber is trying to bypass the regulations the rest of the market have to adhere to.
Uber is doing this via providing an inferior, unregulated service, which may, or may not be competitive on price.
Most customers will not be able to tell the difference between the route selected by an Uber driver, and the route being selected by someone who is bound by a requirement to know what is the optimal route. In the end the customers will be the ones paying the price, without even knowing they were ripped off.
Want to book a cab via an app? Use the existing one for the licensed cabbies?
Want to compete in this market? Compete on even terms, get fully licensed drivers to sign up to Uber and let the proof be in the pudding.
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Except according to the government, they are NOT bypassing the law. Transport for London says that Uber is legal, then Uber is legal no matter what the LTDA thinks.
Re: Buggy whips (Score:5, Insightful)
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You could, like, research things before spouting out. Or you could sound like a dumbshit
Re:fuck slashdot beta (Score:4, Insightful)
seems like black cabs should be providing excellent service
They are rated as some of the best in the world.
if black cabs service is so much better than ubers, people will surely choose to use black cabs over uber. where's the problem?
really, they just want to use government to stifle competition.
They welcome competition, on fair terms. Tourists (a rather large market in London) have no way of comparing the service provided by the Uber cabs, and the licensed cabs. They have no way of knowing if the Uber driver is actually selecting the best (and cheapest) route for the journey and as Uber have no requirements for drivers to know the area they operate in, there will be plenty of times when the customers will be ripped off, without even knowing it.
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if black cabs service is so much better than ubers, people will surely choose to use black cabs over uber. where's the problem?
How naive. If that was true, "Please stay on the line. Your Call Is VERY Important to us. Average call waiting time is 30 minutes" would not exist. Nor would telephone menus or self-service anything.
People have consistently demonstrated that Lower Prices Every Day[TM] trump quality of product or service almost every time.
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The government could of course get them used to idea and allow them to economically adapt by auctioning off cab license on say a three year term with strictly one licence per bidder and the bidder (a person, an actual human being) must prove themselves capable of operating a cab. The number of licences defined by the lowest bid achieving a minimum defined value a portion of which should be returned upon successful completion of the cab licence period so that a skilled and well behaved cabbie can use it for
Re:Buggy whips (Score:5, Informative)
London is one of the few places where having a cab license actually means something. They have to take strict tests to prove they know the streets of London, both to get their license and to keep it. They also have to provide a certain level of service and take good routes or they could get it pulled if their fare turns out to be an inspector.
Re:Buggy whips (Score:4, Insightful)
I really don't see how Uber are going to be protecting customers. Do they require background/criminal/driving history checks on their drivers? Do they require require vehicle inspections to determine how safe your car is? There a plethora of other requirements that I can't think of that I know have been address on other threads.
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Do they require background/criminal/driving history checks on their drivers? Do they require require vehicle inspections to determine how safe your car is? There a plethora of other requirements that I can't think of that I know have been address on other threads.
I suspect that you have never gotten a hack license, worked as a cabbie or take cabs very often. I drove a cab for a short time while in college, leaving after one of the drivers I worked with was killed for pocket change. In the world of cab monopolies, money seems to go a long way. But that's how it's done in America. Money always talks and smooths the path; to believe otherwise (or even, in my opinion, believe what the money folks tell you) is a bit naive. But that's just my experience, yours might
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But this isn't in America, it's in London.
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Re:Buggy whips (Score:4, Funny)
The company has the name and address that the driver gave.
I could easily give 1060 W. Addison, Chicago, Illinois as my address (assuming I lived in the Chicago area).
Is Uber going to stop me?
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Illegal cabbies aren't the only ones... (Score:3)
It's not like being a legal taxi driver prevents you from being a murderer [wikipedia.org]. Or even just charging illegal fees [www.cbc.ca].
I'm sure that most illegal cabbies are just trying to make a living. The best solution is probably to end the protectionist rackets that limit the numbers of legal taxis.
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London taxi drivers are not licensed according to their ability to buy or rent a $500,000 (or whatever the going rate is) medallion or according to a quota, but instead, according to their ability to provide a good service, specifically "the knowledge" -- knowing where every street in London is without using a map and knowing the fastest route there.
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Actually, up until 1976 it was a legal requirement for taxi drivers to carry hay in case their horses got a bit peckish. It's an area in which regulations seem to change very slowly.
There's been a (decades-) long ongoing war between black-cab taxis (which you can hail on the street) and minicabs (private cars you book by phone) and this is merely another phase of that battle.
There is a genuine issue of ensuring standards (for example, disabled accessibility to vehicles), but these are things taxi drivers ha
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It's generally the powerful who get to write the regulations you're so fond of.
That's why we have in powerful taxi companies who "own" a government granted medallion pissed off that there might be some new competition for customer's transport dollars by independent drivers and their previously lobbied regulations aren't stopping it.
No customer needs to be "protected" from Uber, a service they are free to choose to use or not use based on their own evaluation of if it fits their needs better or not. All Uber
Re:It's about power, not being a customer (Score:4, Interesting)
In NYC, that medallion will cost you over $1million. Figuring that there are only 10-20% more medallions now (~13,500) in NYC then in the 1930s, you can see that supply has artificially been restricted.
Re:It's about power, not being a customer (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I think this why in the US abortion is such a big issue. It is largely an issue that has no monied interest (beyond the interest groups themselves) so politicians are off the leash on that issue. But look at the morning after pill. There was a monied interest behind that abortion related aspect so whoosh it was approved in 2 seconds. I am not saying that it is good or bad, just that normally anything involving abortion is normally full on trench warfare.
So in this particular case it will be interesting to watch the fairly well monied Uber fighting with the zillion somewhat less monied cab companies.
This debate is not happening because the politicians said, "Hey look the voters are pissed off with crappy and overpriced transport." They are having this debate because they were told to.
Our interests will not be part of the equation in any way at all.
Re:It's about power, not being a customer (Score:5, Informative)
So in this particular case it will be interesting to watch the fairly well monied Uber fighting with the zillion somewhat less monied cab companies.
They're not fighting the cab companies. They're fighting the black cab drivers.
London has a peculiar system. There are black cabs - which can be hailed on the street, within certain limits they are obliged to take you to your destination (so if they're waiting at a major station hoping for a lucrative fare and you want to go around the corner, they have to take you and lose their place in the queue at the station), and the fare is calculated by an installed meter and is relative to time and distance travelled. (There is a minimum fare)
Private hire cars must be pre-booked (the booking only has to be a few minutes in advance - typically you ring up the office and then they send the nearest car to pick you up), and they're under no obligation at all to take you when you call when they hear where you want to go.
Uber uses a metering system linked to an app. Black cabs are the only taxis allowed to have a meter fitted. TfL (Transport for London) have said they don't consider the app to be "fitted" and therefore the law banning other cars from having a meter fitted doesn't apply.
Black cabs also have to pass a rather impressive test. Within the area they're obliged to carry passengers, they're required to show they know every street, landmark etc. (Apparently, when they're examined, a favourite trick of the examiners is to ask them to do a journey where roadworks have temporarily closed the "usual" way and the drivers are expected to know about it and not just "follow the diversion" but take the best route knowing in advance that there are roadworks.)
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Nothing in your post justifies the Black cabs exclusion of a competing service for illegal reasons.
If people judge that the cabbies added value (knowledge of road closures, etc) suits them, they will use them. If people judge that Uber's added value (lower prices) suits them, they will use Uber.
What is this extra-legal right that Black cab drivers have that justifies their excluding competition?
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About the only time a politician will listen to you is when he is making a lis
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I don't think it's quite that clear cut. When I worked as a consultant (I still do sometimes, but I'm mostly an academic these days), I wasn't paid except when I was doing work for my customers. Uber fills the same role for drivers as a recruitment agency does for consultants: they are not employing you, they're putting you in contact with customers in exchange for a cut of your fee. In the case of Uber, they are also handling the QA and payment processing.
In your shop analogy, it's more akin to a sho
When it settles (Score:2, Insightful)
My problem with Uber is that they don't pay its cabdrivers when they dont have any customer. If a cab driver get sick she or he will not get paid. Right now there are two few drivers for the market but when everything settles (more Uber-like companies) most taxi drivers will not get payd work thier hours they put in. Uber will still make money since it does not cost much extra to have 1000 cars or 10000 cars. But when there are two many cars for the market workers will suffer greatly.
Old business models (Score:2)
Innovate or die.
As usual the established trade is resisting any changes to the model. Why don't they take this moment & implement their own competing system & instead of owning cabs own an app?
But but but this is our lively-hood they tell you, think of the children! -no one said driving a car & knowing London's roads will land you a lifetime job.
We know this all too well, they will used their position and established financial base to throw an army of litigation at it and maybe they'll shu
London Cabbies are different (Score:5, Insightful)
In NYC, it's basically the taxi's the are licensed. Any yellow cab has to have a medallion [wikipedia.org] and they are expensive... often going for $750k+ USD. Once you have the medallion you can lease/rent it to just about any hack who qualifies for a drivers license.
In London, it's the drivers that are heavily regulated. The tests are notoriously hard and London cabbies either have or acquire neurology that is much more spatially oriented than normal [wired.com].
The difference may be subtle to most people but it's important. When you get in a cab in NYC, you usually need to be explicit about the route that should be taken. Nefarious types will often take you through Times Square, Union Square, Canal Street or other traffic nightmares to run up the tab. London cabbies pride themselves (at least in my experience) on on knowing every last back road that will get you there that much faster.
So I see their point. They're a group of professionals.... who act like professionals. They've put a lot of time and effort into becoming such, I'd want to protect my turf as well.
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I agree with you, in principle.
However, the value that they bring has to be WORTH IT. That's how capitalism works: if someone is willing to do the job cheaper than you and they do it "well enough", they will get business. My cab driver can also do surgery and quote Tennyson? Great - I'm not paying for it.
It's not the purchaser's responsibility to offer a 'living' or 'fair' payment for what you're bringing. They are going to buy the cheapest service possible that does what they want.
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All of these posts and so few mentions of The Knowledge [wikipedia.org]. Its average time to train and pass is about 3 years and is widely renowned as extremely tough. There's a reason so many cabbies are ex-beat coppers - they're some of the few people who know the streets well enough to even begin. You need exceptional spatial awareness and an excellent memory for names and place details*. I've not been to NY so I can't draw any parallels, but from a cursory glance at a map it looks like it has a vastly simpler road netw
Re:fuck beta (Score:4, Insightful)
London traffic is already so bad (Score:2)
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which side will go with the Northern Irish option? (Score:2)
Thats going to be the "fun" part of this problem.
Merits don't Count (Score:2)
Re:Fuck 'em. (Score:5, Funny)
This is England. They'll be sentenced to funny walks and an ASBO.
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By creating such congestion, *NOBODY* will be able to transport people... even those who have nothing to do with Uber.
Also, this would interfere with emergency vehicles and public transportation as well.
I'm quite sure that they could face serious fines if they actually implement this... up to and including losing their license to operate as a business if they continue.
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Re:Customers are not property. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Finally an insightful comment! As opposed to the plethora of idiotic "buggy whip" vanilla bs.
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How about you stick to commenting on things you have a clue about?
Re:Customers are not property. (Score:5, Insightful)
Becoming a black cab driver in London isn't as easy as buying a car, and that's for several reasons:
- London's fucking big and fucking complicated. Having a satnav isn't necessarily enough to know where to take people, or especially how to get there efficiently
- Black cabs are a part of London's reputation, attraction and transport infrastructure. There's an implicit level of quality and reliability that the licensing is intended to create
- There are too many vehicles in London already, and black cabs get priority on many streets. For this reason black cab numbers are controlled
- Taxi drivers gain personal access to individuals that may be in a vulnerable state. Solo ladies, young people, drunk people
Does that make Uber wrong? Not necessarily. It may be cheaper, it may be easier, it may offer a broader range of potential vehicles.
It also adds traffic to roads not designed to cater for it - the transport system in London is geared around a certain level of private traffic and a certain level of black cab activity, and Uber shifts that relationship.
So no, customers are not property. This situation is also not as straightforward as you're trying to suggest.
London streets (Score:2)
Re:Customers are not property. (Score:4, Interesting)
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The argument here is actually quite valid, Black Cabs and cab drivers have significant government license, knowledge and regulations imposed on them which are quite expensive I understand.
It sounds to me like Uber are yet another minicab (i.e., "private hire") business. There are quite a number of other such firms already operating in the UK, including within London, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of them didn't already use websites and apps to allow a customer to arrange a transaction. Heck, I know of at least one firm that allows booking via website (even if that's just something you do a few minutes ahead) and an app is just a logical extension of that.
What makes Uber differen
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It's the new bitcoin. Annoying stories about it appear just as you were about to forget the last one.
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Re: Oh look, more Uber (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, apparently I have. I read an article yesterday about it and this one today and that's all I've really heard about it.
It's a stupid name, and I couldn't really give a fuck about it. It's sure as shit not ubiquitous - just two cities in the whole country? Fuck that.
Sure, it's disrupting traditional business models, falling foul (or not) of various vehicle licensing regulations, accessed via a mobile phone application. It's still a niche product used by a few people, so don't go acting all fucking surprised that people haven't heard of it. Shit, it's not even available in the second most populous city in the UK or the largest city in Europe. Hardly fucking everywhere is it.
Re:Brilliant move... (Score:5, Insightful)
We're not talking about satnav reliant random people with a car: Every black cab driver has to pass The Knowledge, comprising a comprehensive map of London and ability to calculate the most efficient route depending on roadworks / time of day / year *in their heads*. This takes years to master and is possibly the most difficult memory and spatial relationship exercise in the world. I doubt you could do it.
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If the cab companies had their way it would be illegal to drive yourself in the city..
It's not illegal, but you do have to pay £10 per day to do so [tfl.gov.uk].
Re:Protest over self drive taxis next (Score:5, Insightful)
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I LOVE the idea of Uber, especially if its possible to specify when you make the request what size vehicle you want (e.g. "I want a big car because I have 4 suitcases to carry")
Heck, someone should invent "Uber with UTEs/vans", it would be great for being able to pick up furniture or large items in cases where its not possible to have it home delivered (or where home delivery is expensive/would not be able to happen for ages) and where it wont fit in your normal car.
Re: Benefits of Uber (Score:5, Insightful)
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what advantage are uber drivers gaining? that they provide subpar service compared to black cab?
Actually, yes! They can provide a subpar service, without the customers knowing, or having any way of knowing that the service they are paying for, is rubbish and/or overpriced.
A short while back, we had a scandal in the UK, where a lot of beef was actually more horse than anything, consumers had no way of knowing they were being cheated, as flavourings and colours were used to disguise it.
A subpar product can easily be sold without customers knowing they are being cheated, this is why we have standar
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They don't. The whole story was completely misrepresented by a hysterical media. The lesson was simply to teach adjectives and illustrate that you can have a black sheep, a happy sheep a pink sheep or even a rainbow sheep.
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They don't. The whole story was completely misrepresented by a hysterical media. The lesson was simply to teach adjectives and illustrate that you can have a black sheep, a happy sheep a pink sheep or even a rainbow sheep.
And thats their problem.
The conservatives dont want an educated workforce, they want unthinking proles who aren't smart enough to rise up against their masters.
If we start teaching them adjectives, then they'll learn adverbs. interjections, prepositions and before you know it, those slovenly Midlanders and lazy Yorkies know enough to say they have rights and cant be exploited in 16 hour days for minimal pay. Some of them will actually understand Industrial Relations laws, this cannot be allowed to pas
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You say that like you think the liberals want something different.
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2 stories in 24 hours. Uber must love /. for the free publicity.