UK Police Won't Comment On The Tracking of People's Phone Calls

Daniel_Stuckey writes You've maybe heard a bit about Stingray. Over the past couple of years, it has emerged that police forces in the US have been using the powerful surveillance tool, which tricks phones into connecting to a dragnet, to track mobile devices, and intercept calls and text messages. Meanwhile, the London Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) continue to remain tight lipped about their use of the technology, leaving citizens in the dark on what privacy protections, if any, are in place for those who may get swept up by the broad surveillance techniques.

Of couse they are...

[buckfeta2014]

'nuff said.

Where was Orwell from?

[theshowmecanuck]

'nough said.

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[sound+vision]

'nougat said.

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[Anonymous Coward]

Orwell didn't exist, his name was Eric Blair.

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[Panoptes]

Pen name taken from the river Orwell.

Well

[Spad]

...leaving citizens in the dark on what privacy protections, if any, are in place...

I'll give you a hint, there aren't any.

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[Beriaru]

They dont need any esoteric piece of technology. Just a call to the carrier, and there you are: all your sms and conversations. And thats for an anonymous citizen. If they have you in a list, you provably have a man in the middle for all your internet traffic.

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[Pieroxy]

isn't helping each other some form of intelligence? Given that it brought them to all those places, I'd say it is. So yes, smarter.

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[Anonymous Coward]

no mate, the British police use a (*)DATONG imsi catcher, similar to the Harris 'ray' series but better designed & cheaper. They deploy it in London when they want to work-out who is present in a particular area, around a square mile. They of course are also able ask for retained data from the 'phone companies, but they do own and operate passive/active fake cell tower devices. The legality of imsi catcher use by the police in the UK is uncertain.
In London it's also allegedly common to be asked by a Po

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

It's not extra-judicial

[Bruce66423]

There is an judicial organisation with responsibility for oversight of this. The question is whether they are doing their job, and whether the penalties for abuse are sufficient. Given that the answer to both is probably 'no', we clearly do have a problem, but it's too simple to say it is 'extra-judicial'.

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[advocate_one]

deliberately kept underfunded, understaffed and their terms of reference are defined so tightly that they cannot actually do anything...

Re: It's not extra-judicial

[tom229]

No true revolution can be held up by a single man. We'd all have to be leaders.

That being said, privacy violations will never spawn a revolution. The average person is motivated by short term conveniences, not long term ideals. Keep the population fed, busy, and entertained and you should be able to get away with anything.

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[ATMAvatar]

In the case of the US, it's a secret court with secret proceedings - as far as anyone knows, the actual approval for surveillance is rubber-stamped by circus clowns. Even then, it was shown that much of our surveillance was done without consulting the special "court". I don't see why we should assume the UK system is any different.

Perhaps

[Chrisq]

Meanwhile, the London Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) continue to remain tight lipped about their use of the technology,

perhaps they don't want to admit that they don't know how to work the damned thing. Truncheons and battering rams fine, but computers are a little tricky

ECHR

[Anonymous Coward]

The European Court of Human Rights recently ruled that collecting and storing IP addresses, as mandated by a related directive, is illegal. This is considered to be collecting evidence of a possible crime that may or may not happen in the future and before the person is even a suspect. The same most likely applies to phone records to a certain extent, too. I'm curious to see how this plays out in the next few years.

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[Teun]

Probably means another reason for the UK to withdraw from the EU.

Of course all in the name of greater democracy.

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[alex67500]

47 countries have signed the ECHR convention, only 27 are in the EU. Turkey, for instance, has been found guilty by the ECHR for not providing fair trials, but they aren't part of the EU.

In short, the UK leaving the EU would most likely not mean they will leave the jurisdiction of the ECHR.

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[Teun]

Absolutely but logic doesn't always makes you look good and re-elected.

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[gsnedders]

Related is Malone v. The United Kingdom (1984) on wiretapping of phone lines.

Use a Cell ID identifier on a phone

[stiggle]

As each cell has a CID (Cell ID) you can get software which will display this, and other, information.
If you know what the CID should be for a specific area then you can restrict your phone use if you don't recognise the CID.

eg. 2 phones - one a burner you NEVER use, but is always on so you can track the CID,
Your main phone you only switch on when you trust the CID of the cell you're in to make the calls.

A public database of Cell ID - http://opencellid.org/ [opencellid.org] Its a little out on some of its info, but its a good starting point.

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[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming that it's happening at the cell tower level. It probably isn't. For a start that'd be 1) obvious and 2) fail to catch them when out of that cell's area.

It's far more likely they're working with the mobile networks to route calls to/from those numbers through their own servers and recording it in that way.

Re:Use a Cell ID identifier on a phone

[l_bratch]

Even if it is happening at cell tower level, who's to say they don't just duplicate a cell ID?

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[Anonymous Coward]

You need the cell id and its approximate signal strength at your location. There are messages phones can send to the tower to say "hi, what is my signal strength?" and that answer should be about the same. Most cell towers now have several cells too so that could be useful too. After all this same technique is how many phones use wifi to figure out where they are. I've seen ads for devices that can tell you the signal strength of a phone from an aircraft. Two points and you have a location.

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[AmiMoJo]

Sounds like you could write an app that automatically compares the CID to the database and alerts you to discrepancies.

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[itschy]

That is exactly what this [spideyapp.com] is meant to achieve.

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[coofercat]

How about RedPhone + TextSecure?

Although if cells are your bag, then Llama can trigger events based on the ones you're tuned to.

You need to ask?

[gweihir]

Ok, let me spell it out for you:

- No privacy protection whatsoever. If you take nude pictures, they will be shared around or if you leave your phone on during sex they will be listening.
- No need for reasonable suspicion to do this to you, a whim is enough.
- And no accountability at all on their side.

Clear?

Privacy? Protections?

[Chas]

Here's the answer.

*Plays loop of loud, sarcastic laughter*

This is England

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in England we dont do freedom anymore, it was far more important what was on the TV or what football was on,
Free speech died. was nice while it lasted though. Opression is here !

I suspect my phone has connected to a Stingray

[Jiggy]

I run along the Thames Embankment (London Bridge to Westminster via St Paul's Cathedral and back) at lunch time and during the St Paul's Protest Camp my smartphone would misbehave when I ran past it. It would also need a reboot on my return for it to make/receive calls again. Never happened anywhere else or at anytime else. 2+2 equals buggy Stringray deployment?