ISIS Bans Math and Social Studies For Children 981
mpicpp sends this news from CNN:
In swaths of Syria now controlled by ISIS, children can no longer study math or social studies. Sports are out of the question. And students will be banned from learning about elections and democracy. Instead, they'll be subjected to the teachings of the radical Islamist group. And any teacher who dares to break the rules "will be punished." ISIS revealed its new educational demands in fliers posted on billboards and on street poles. The Sunni militant group has captured a slew of Syrian and Iraqi cities in recent months as it tries to establish a caliphate, or Islamic state, spanning Sunni parts of both countries. Books cannot include any reference to evolution. And teachers must say that the laws of physics and chemistry "are due to Allah's rules and laws."
Update: 09/18 16:26 GMT by S : CNN has pulled the story over "concerns about the interpretation of the information provided." They promise to update it when they get the facts straight.
they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
This certainly will make it difficult for them to pose a long term threat to anyone. A society that doesn't allow math won't last long.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Well as a closed system maybe but, if your "society" is being propped up via funding and arms, and you have no need to actually produce anything yourself or even produce engineers at all, then it isn't as much of a problem.
That said, what would really make it tough for them is a lack of opposition. Their tactics tend to be very self defeating when the larger powers don't overreact and get drawn into conflict with them.
If we let them provoke us though, then they will likely feed off that and use our involvement to deflect criticism away from their own otherwise self-defeating brutality.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Math isn't just used by engineers; it's also needed to operate pretty much any business -- even low-tech ones. Even a damn goat-herder needs to be able to multiply, assuming he wants to be able to sell X goats for $Y each, and end up with the correct number of $ afterwards!
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Funny)
Shut up, dude.
I'm getting ready to corner the market on goats and you're gonna blow my plans to hell!
Re: they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Funny)
The goat herder shall receive payment for his goats as Allah decrees.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, what would really make it tough for them is a lack of opposition. Their tactics tend to be very self defeating when the larger powers don't overreact and get drawn into conflict with them.
Not from any evidence I've ever seen. No larger power had given them any attention for the past year, and their numbers, financial resources, and power swelled unchecked; they only become a greater threat with time. You cannot ignore them and make them go away, it doesn't work like that. One defector stated their long term goals include taking over the mideast, followed by Europe, and eventually, the entire globe. That obviously can't happen because they've ignorantly shunned the sciences, but it could take a whole 'nother generation or two before that lack of knowledge really takes its toll (if they're left unchecked in the meantime).
Granted, however, that this war will be lose-lose, because no matter what the western powers do, they will be decried in every form imaginable. But there is no choice. There is no logic where such a fanatical religion has taken root.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Informative)
I take it your "evidence" is watching the news:
http://belfercenter.ksg.harvar... [harvard.edu]
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you need to distinguish between terrorism and reign of terror. Hit-and-run bombings like the IRA or ETA rarely succeed in people giving in to terror. Taking actual control of areas, waving the flags and killing off all that oppose you has a much better historical record, ask anyone from Pol Pot to Hitler and Lenin and Mao. In case you haven't noticed, they're using their brutal savagery primarily to quell resistance and internal dissent. The story they're selling is that they're too fucking crazy to pick a fight with and so far they seem more than willing to put that reputation to the test and post it on YouTube.
I mean, would you like to be in a resistance movement inside IS territory? Do they care that they can't find you? Heck no, they'll just round up a few civilians and shoot them in retaliation for your sabotage/assassination/sedition. Far more civilized occupants have used that tactic, all those millions of people they control are in practice hostages. You're fighting an enemy willing to overreact to any provocation, give them a push and you won't get a shove back they'll beat you to a bloody pulp. And given their history so far, I don't think they have a problem with human shields. You can not excise them without massive civilian casualties. Sadly I give them much better odds than you predict.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
That obviously can't happen because they've ignorantly shunned the sciences, but it could take a whole 'nother generation or two before that lack of knowledge really takes its toll (if they're left unchecked in the meantime).
No silly rabbit. The people they rule are not allowed to have any learning. This is nothing more than a return to society a couple hundred years ago. The leaders will still have "western style" educations. That's how they stay in control.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
They are playing a rather dangerous game. Remember that the US or Europe could squish them with ease, militarily - if we had to, it wouldn't be hard to nuke the whole region. There are only two reasons this isn't being done: It'd be expensive, and it's mean very large numbers of civilian deaths which would be politically problematic. This situation persists only because they aren't a major threat: The moment they actually become a danger to the continued existance of the US or any major European power they'd be crushed without regard to how much it costs or how many people would die. Remember that as recently as WWII even the allies - the 'good guys' - considered carpet-bombing cities to be perfectly justifiable. During the cold war the US has missiles poised to kill tens of millions at a moment's notice, if they ever needed to.
ISIS can only survive so long as they are powerful enough to dominate the region, but not powerful enough to invoke an unrestrained defensive action from the western powers. Like North Korea: The crazed dictator can brag all he wants about his military supremacy, but he doesn't have it, and that makes him too expensive to invade. if NK ever managed to actually detonate a nuclear bomb even China wouldn't hestitate to march in and take over. I think they'd be glad of the excuse, really.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
You underestimate the power of radical ideologies. While what they appear to be doing is self defeating, it really isn't. It draws in those people who need an identity. People said similar things about Nazi's (yeah I just Godwined the conversation). The one thing Nazi's had, that ISIS doesn't is government. But in today's age, being nebulous, decentralized is an asset, like Hydra (cut off one head two more takes its place). We killed off OBL, but he wasn't really running things when we did, and Taliban and Al Qaeda still remain. And even if they didn't, the people in those organizations just change their name, and regroup. This is the same tactic used by most counter culture politics.
The only effective tactic we have at this time is to target and kill the leadership, until the organization crumbles from lack of leaders. We don't need a standing army to do this, just Letters of Marque.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Funny)
People said similar things about Nazi's (yeah I just Godwined the conversation).
Not only that, you misused an apostrophe at the same time. I think the entire Internet just imploded.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Informative)
Normally that'd be the case. Their policies cripple their own society while competing societies flourish, until they eventually consign themselves to irrelevance.
However, they're simply executing anyone who opposes them. For their tactic to be self-defeating, there has to be a competing society in the first place. People in the West tend to assume that the only way to "win" (in the democratic sense) is to convince people of the merits of your philosophy and get them to support you until you have a political majority. However, there's another way - simply exterminate those who oppose you, which is what ISIS is doing. Both strategies result in you having the support of the majority of the (remaining) population.
Not opposing them now is going to mean the overwhelming majority of survivors in the region will subscribe to their philosophy. Even if you defeat them later and install a democracy, they're just going to vote for something close to ISIS again because everyone who would've voted differently is dead.. This is one of those cases where failing to stop them quickly is going to result in decades if not a century or more of problems down the road.
I LOVE READING PROPAGANDA (Score:4, Insightful)
It's so much EASIER than THINKING!
Re:I LOVE READING PROPAGANDA (Score:5, Insightful)
First in regards to:
Well as a closed system maybe but, if your "society" is being propped up via funding and arms, and you have no need to actually produce anything yourself or even produce engineers at all, then it isn't as much of a problem.
The US spends over half a trillion dollars on the DOD a year. For decades, we have moved away from producing goods to a service providing nation. Granted, this is starting to improve a bit but it's nothing to celebrate, yet.
That said, what would really make it tough for them is a lack of opposition. Their tactics tend to be very self defeating when the larger powers don't overreact and get drawn into conflict with them.
If we let them provoke us though, then they will likely feed off that and use our involvement to deflect criticism away from their own otherwise self-defeating brutality.
The US government has been doing this for decades as well. Every few years we find a new enemy, rally cry and release the hounds of war.
If you want me to do all the work for you and provide specific examples of the above, let me know. There are many.
Re:I LOVE READING PROPAGANDA (Score:5, Insightful)
In the last decade we have sent troops into Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iraq. What real threat do any of these nations pose? Additionally, the way those conflicts unfolded wont be a deterrent to anyone. Besides, most of those conflicts are a result of us getting involved there previously. One of the best example of our meddling is what we did to Germany after WWI. It wasn't entirely the US' doing but we definitely played a part. Ultimately "those who do not learn from there mistakes are doomed to repeat them."
Re:I LOVE READING PROPAGANDA (Score:5, Informative)
In 1953 the percentage of GDP from manufacturing was 28%. In 2012 it was at 12%. I'd call that a drop.
Between 1953 and 2012 the GDP has gone up by about 600% (adjusted for inflation), so that is still a net increase in manufacturing by a significant margin, just not as large of an increase as other sectors.
Re:I LOVE READING PROPAGANDA (Score:4, Insightful)
In 1953 the percentage of GDP from manufacturing was 28%. In 2012 it was at 12%. I'd call that a drop.
Were you really confused by this, or are you just trolling now?
In 1953 US GDP was ~$2.5 T in 2009 dollars. Today it's ~$16T in 2009 dollars.
Can you see now that US manufacturing has grown significantly? The rest of the economy just grew faster, shifting our focus over the years. Much the same happened with farming before that. Technology is neat that way.
What real threat do any of these nations pose?
Again, appearance of strength is important. People who are a threat seeing the US as weak and starting a war would be a catastrophe from any moral perspective. We do get judged, like it or not, by whether minor player can shake their fists at us without consequence. Was is a surprise to you that Russia is getting froggy again (occasionally hopping across its borders) over the past decade?
Geopolitics aside, some would say that a strong man who sees a horrific crime that he has the strength to stop has the moral responsibility to do so. ISIS has conquered territory by force of arms - do we want to allow that sort of thing to be acceptable on the world stage again? The way ISIS is treating their conquered subjects is horrific and appalling, and we should probably put a stop to it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, that's wrong. There's a difference between having faith in the actual God and pushing an agenda that you want God to support.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Unfortunately, His worshippers like to attach labels to Him that aren't warranted.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a difference between having faith in the actual God and pushing an agenda that you want God to support.
Hear hear! It's like I'm always telling others, Ares has his own agenda, completely separate from whatever agendas you wish to push in His name.
Ares is the actual God to which you were referring, yes? I mean, it's completely obvious to me that He is the one and only God, but since others seem to have different ideas about just who or what God is, I just wanted to make absolutely certain you too were referring to the actual God (and are not simply falling prey to that which you are speaking out against).
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a difference alright, but it's irrelevant. If you dedicate a big portion of your time to faith instead of science, your science won't be good. The christian societies have had their quarrels with science, but in the end a lot of science was done nevertheless. Muslim societies used to be at the forefront of science and technology. Giving that up has made them dependent, not just because they are more easily dominated, but also because they lack the knowledge to control their own fate.
The battle against science is always on, everywhere. When science loses, things go down the drain really fast. Fundamentalist Christianity isn't just a nuisance. Things like teaching creationism are severe threats to this society. The pursuit of knowledge is essential.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Funny)
Labels like "Him" and "His"?
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Informative)
Back before the Politically Correct Brigade flooded into everything, you might recall that we used to use male conjugations to refer to ambiguous gender entities in English.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Early islamic society did well in math/science (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't confuse the more ancient tribal and pagan customs and beliefs of the people in the region with islam. The former is often falsely attributed to islam. Islam, like christianity, did not completely displace nor eradicate some of the old tribal/pagan stuff. Some, but not all, of the crazier stuff comes from the tribal/pagan days.
This seems a bit like a No True Scotsman fallacy. As far as I understand, ISIS is simply implementing their interpretation of the Koran. If that's not Islam, what is? That interpretation just happens to be atrocious to people and societies that value individual freedom.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know. Violent anti-intellectualism has a tendency to create shitty, miserable societies, but has more than enough historical precedent at lasting at least a few generations at some points in some societies' histories. Ancient China had bouts of it, so did Rome, and neither crashed as a direct result.
(It's obvious and you don't need to point out that ancient societies aren't modern societies, and the requirements for both are different). I'm just contesting the universality of the specific claim "A society that doesn't allow math won't last long."
Re: they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
On the decades to hundreds of years scale, sure. Their policy will probably work for their (short) foreseeable future.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Here, let me pour some gasoline over your strawman and strike a match.
When have people from Africa appeared at the borders of any country "cap-in-hand [...] demanding their 'rights'"?
People do try to escape violent, torturing, oppressive, corrupt murderous regimes though. We call them asylum seekers; fleeing to escape persecution from their fucked-up governments. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? Or maybe knee-jerk xenophobia is more your cup of tea?
Re: they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean, greedy Third World swine with nothing to contribute, who think that they're "entitled" to live in a rich country because Whitey is rich and they are poor?
As opposed to the greedy First World swine with nothing to contribute who think they're "entitled" to live in a rich country because of who's uterus they happened to be expelled from?
Aren't sweeping generalizations fun!
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Insightful)
Hey! Let's just ignore history, colonization, the ongoing impacts of the RC Church, and the niggling fact of who developed guns first.
Also, "third world countries" have plenty of culture, they are just not listening to Vivaldi and sipping tea with their pinkies extended.
Careful, your entitlement, ignorance, and racism are showing...
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
Which is exactly why we should 'STOP' fighting them. If we want to see an end to militant Islam we ought to let ISIS have their run of things for a while. I am sure after a couple decades of ISIS rule the only holy war any Muslim will ever sign up to fight again will be against these 12th century throw backs!
Re: (Score:3)
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
They won't destroy the population, they'll just subjugate it. That's what authoritarian regimes do. Stalin killed millions of people in his great purge during and after WWII, but it's not like the Soviet Union suddenly collapsed due to lack of people. And the Soviet Union lasted for many decades.
What works in dealing with these things is to wall them off and ignore them, and arming neighboring regions to create a buffer zone.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd love to let them have the run of things for a while, except they insist on flying planes into our buildings and beheading children. No, I think the only option is to go in and kill every last one of them, like the vermin infestation that they are.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
How has that approach been working out for Israel? Thought so.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
For every one you kill two will take their place. Your philosophy breeds terrorism instead of extinguishing it.
Which is a total win-win:
- We'll have a thriving Defense Industry in the US, and lots of corporate fat-cats will get rich.
- We'll have lots of military employment opportunities for young impoverished rural Americans. The ones that survive can be shunted off into sub-standard medical and psychiatric care, and will end up homeless or dead in a cost-effective way.
- We'll make sure the corrupt, dissolute fucktards in charge of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain and Kuwait are so scared of the creations of their own madrassas that they don't dare interrupt our oil supply.
- There will be a cheap and easy path to election for bigoted, paranoid demagogues to get elected with rancid Islamophobic propaganda.
I mean, what's not to like?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Has Israel ever resorted to actual genocide/mass expulsions of the population?
Um.
Yes?
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Is arming locals really that bad an idea though? Our problem in the past was that we picked religious zealots as our allies and armed them, while ignoring the not-so-religious ones we could have supported. Here with ISIS, we could arm the Kurds and support them; the Kurds are not terribly religious (not too different from your typical Sunday Christians here in the US), and are willing to fight ISIS, but we don't want to support them too much because we don't want them demanding their own state, because that works against our interest in keeping the region destabilized. If we stopped working towards keeping the region unstable, and instead helped out groups like the Kurds who want independence, which would make the whole region far more stable, groups like ISIS would die out.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd love to let them have the run of things for a while, except they insist on flying planes into our buildings and beheading children.
With that logic, we should go to war with our ally Saudi Arabia as well.
Saudi nationals have flown more planes into buildings than ISIS.
The Saudi Government has beheaded more people than ISIS.
(Though ISIS seems to be trying to catch up)
No, I think the only option is to go in and kill every last one of them, like the vermin infestation that they are.
The language of dehumanization is ugly.
I'm glad that Western governments have abandoned it as a propaganda tool.
I can only hope that some of the less evolved citizens of the West will abandon it as well.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you really think if expended even 1/4 the amount of resources we invest in the middle east on controlling our boards they'd have the slightest chance of being able to pull off another attack like that?
I don't.
We could be opening every shipping container unloading , inspecting every truck, doing background checks on every inbound traveler, before admitting them and probably save tons in both blood and treasure. It would be far more effective at controlling the risk and threat of terror.
I'll admit I bought into the "we have to fight them over there..." rhetoric when Bush fed us those lines too. I know better know. I think Obama is probably the worst president of this nation has had post WWII and am still glad we did not elect McCain.
We also need to "get real" about the seriousness of the problem. 9/11 was shocking but it was a one time event they have not been able to repeat. Its hard to say for sure with all the crazy government secrecy but the evidence that is out there suggests it has not been the security apparatus that has prevented a repeat but rather the extremists own inability develop the assets here will the skill sets required to execute a successful attack. Statistically you about as likely to die falling out of bed as you are from some kind of terrorism connected event.
Considering just the lives we have "invested" in this fight we could suffer at least more several 9/11s before it will have made any kind of economic sense.
Considering the dollars, I can't find many good numbers because its hard to separate the economic costs associated with the attack from the costs we incurred in our war runup/execution. I'd be they could crash lots of jets into lots of towers with all the economic knockon effects there in before it come close though to the wealth we have thrown away in the middle east.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I think the only option is to go in and kill every last one of them, like the vermin infestation that they are.
Congratulations, you thought of the same strategy as them.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Interesting)
We can't trade with such people. Hell, if they don't even allow math we can't even keep ledgers. So they would still blame western governments for imposing sanctions.
To be honest, it seems like the best solution, is, as you say, stop fighting them. All we ever wind up doing is accidentally killing a bunch of civilians and breeding more jihadis. You guys want a caliphate? Fine. Knock yourselves out. We'll be over here with our blackjack and hookers.
The only problem is we still need their damn oil. Please, Elon Musk, save us from dependence on these assholes' oil. The sooner we can find a replacement for middle eastern oil and/or their oil runs out, the better.
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Informative)
The only problem is we still need their damn oil. Please, Elon Musk, save us from dependence on these assholes' oil. The sooner we can find a replacement for middle eastern oil and/or their oil runs out, the better.
Just to give some numbers, here is where we (the U.S.) got our oil in 2013:
U.S.: 2,720 million barrels
Canada: 1,147 million barrels
Saudi Arabia: 485 million barrels (OPEC)
Mexico: 335 million barrels
Venezuela: 294 million barrels (OPEC)
Russia: 168 million barrels
Columbia: 142 million barrels
Iraq: 124 million barrels (OPEC)
Kuwait: 119 million barrels (OPEC)
Nigeria: 103 million barrels (OPEC)
Ecuador: 86 million barrels (OPEC)
Angola: 79 million barrels (OPEC)
Brazil: 55 million barrels
U.K.: 54 million barrels
Other OPEC: 67 million barrels
Other non-OPEC: 338 million barrels
Ignoring the type of oil (pretty sure we're exporting natural gas like a fiend right now due to fracking), we need to cut 21% to get away from OPEC altogether, or 12% just to get away from the Middle East. In the U.S., 47% of oil goes to gasoline, 20% to diesel and other fuel oil, 13% to liquefied petroleum gases like propane and such, and 8% for jet fuel. All this info is from eia.gov, by the way.
So it while it is still an enormous problem, it's not insurmountable. In fact, it's inevitable. We won't go cold turkey, but we will almost certainly keep chipping away at that deficit with continued efficiency improvements on cars and other vehicles, growing emphasis placed on fuel efficiency, and continued improvements in domestic oil production and refining. Ideally the cleaner improvements will come fast enough that we don't have to rely on the latter, but it'll happen sooner or later.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That is ignorant. The Islamic Golden Age coincides with Islamic expansion and the taking over of established, advanced cultures. Did you even read the Wikipedia article you linked?
Oh, unless you actually consider Islamic holy war to be a good thing. In that case carry on, but your characterization of ISIS as "the polar opposite of 12th century Arabs" is incorrect. You should be cheering them on, they are marching down the exact same path as expansionist Muslim armies of the past that you seem to esteem so h
Re:they will defeat themselves (Score:5, Funny)
A society that doesn't allow math won't last long.
But on the bright side, they won't know how long they lasted.
and won't be allowed to last long (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm sure the children^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsons of the ruling class are getting plenty of instruction in disciplines of military value. They will be able to buy weapons from more advanced nations with money obtained from oil sales and ransoms. It is only the ruled who will be kept ignorant so that they are easier to control. Therefore it is likely that they will last a great while, unless a greater military force (most likely external) finds it in its own best interest to overthrow them.
Re: (Score:3)
For the Arabs, the middle ages were great!
Well, at least until the Crusaders showed up and took all the Arabs' discoveries so they could jump-start the Renaissance....
Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I know that slashdot's overwhelming conservative majority will mod this comment down into oblivion in retaliation, but that doesn't make it untrue.
Re: Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. As a liberal-as-fuck liberalite, libby lib, there is no malevolent conservative slashdot majority. This exists in your head and in your head alone. I post my totally correct liberal positions all the time, and only get modded down when I overly challenge people on specific subjects like misogyny.
2. While anti-intellectualism is a hallmark of the modern republican party, don't they don't even remotely compare in severity to paramilitary mostly uneducated third world anti-intellectuals.
3. Whether you're modded down or not, your statement is untrue on its own merits.
Re: Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot isn't conservative so much as it is libertarian. Which is basically conservatism that wants to maintain the quo socially, (except with fewer rules for them to follow, because freedom) instead of returning to the 1950's. Which is why you still see the misogynists and racists pop out on any thread that mentions women or anyone who's not white.
They share tenets with conservatives, mostly financially, but hate the way mainstream conservatives act (on account of GOP hypocrisy and their regressive social values).
Re: Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Libertarians often take the same positions conservatives do, but are much more dogmatic about it, which is why libertarians hate conservatives so much, whom they see as unprincipled. I, myself, dislike dogmatic philosophies, so some might call me a RINO or something. Yes, I generally want smaller government; no, I don't want to shut down the police or fire department. So, I figure I can be a pariah to at least 80% of Slashdot readership.
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Informative)
Obviously not the Abbasid Caliphate that funded the Baghdad House of Wisdom, home of Muhammed ibn musa al Kwarizmi.
(the words algorithm and algebra are taken from his name and the titles of books he wrote).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It's sickening to see these nutters rejecting the thought and culture that once lead the civilizations of the middle east to a true Golden Age.
Now all we can do is hope that there will somehow be an Islamic Enlightenment. Perhaps in reaction to ISIS? It's hard to see it happening though.
Re: (Score:3)
The so-called Golden Age of Islam was still marked by harsh caliphate rule and Islamic expansion. Your example of al-Kwarizmi is someone in an area that had been taken over by the Muslims for 150 years. Do you think DURING the conflict that resulted in Muslim rule there was a lot of stability and promotion of the arts? That's the stage ISIS sees themselves at.
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Informative)
ISIS is fighting in an area already under Muslim rule. It has nothing to do with Islamic expansion and everything to do with war between sects.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Let us not forget that there's nothing inherent to either Christianity or Islam when it comes to fundamentalism. Christianity generated the Crusades, after all...
I think that's an example of cultural relativism that is as dangerous to the West as the people who are anti-math or anti-science. It is part of the deluded unscientific mythology of the left just as intelligent design is on the right.
There are obvious differences between Christianity and Islam that make Christianity able to coexist with a modern secular state while Islam is showing all over the world that it can't. For example Sharia is a comprehensive legal framework that observant Muslims are supposed to put above the secular laws (you know the ones brought about by a democratic process). There is no such thing in Christianity.
Also, Jesus mythology beats Muhammad mythology hands down as an example to follow (regardless of how much if any of it is true). Jesus' teachings were generally peaceful and kind and never attempted to spread Christianity by force, preferring to suffer himself instead. Muhammad slaughtered and enslaved thousands, explicitly permitted murder, stealing and lying (as long as directed against non-Muslims), kept 13 wives, including a 9 year old one, in addition to sex slaves.
Yes, there are obvious differences in the implementation at the present time which can possibly change: can you imagine the Pope leading a frenzied crowd in the St. Peters square in chants of "death to infidels" the way legitimate Muslim leaders do, rather than urging them to love and respect their neighbor? But there are also many doctrinal differences that make Islam more dangerous which is why in literally every place in the world where Islam is in contact with another civilization there is conflict. Just look at the map.
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Funny)
...can you imagine the Pope leading a frenzied crowd in the St. Peters square in chants of "death to infidels" the way legitimate Muslim leaders do...
So, what you're saying is that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition?
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Informative)
I stopped reading after the first one. Jesus is quoting the priests' law and calling them hypocrites. So obviously the creator didn't read the passages he/she cited, either.
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Informative)
You need to check your own history. Muslims had ruled Jerusalem for 400 years before the First Crusade. It was a prosperous city of Muslims, Christians and Jews.
The Crusades stand as one of the great atrocities of European history. The massacre of Jerusalem. Documented cannibalism at Antioch. The betrayal and sacking of Constantinople. And they accomplished NOTHING. All of the Crusader states fell in less than two hundred years.
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Informative)
You do realize that "gates of Vienna" is a reference to the Islamic expansion into Europe which was only halted at... Vienna?
Seriously the lack of education about Islamic history is astounding. It's an important religion and culture and you'd think people in this day and age would at least know the basics, like what the crusades were about!
Re:Anti-math and anti-science ... (Score:5, Informative)
You do realize that "gates of Vienna" is a reference to the Islamic expansion into Europe which was only halted at... Vienna?
If you want to know why people are a bit dismissive of the OP's post, please read this critique [loonwatch.com] of the website the OP linked to. Trust me when I say that you don't want to get your history lessons from that site.
Actually against Islam (Score:5, Informative)
Okay, I'm not a Muslim, nor am I an expert. I've been over in majority Islamic countries a few times though and had a few 'cultural appreciation' lessons.
Isis is violating a good amount of Islamic teachings with this ban.
Though I can't see how they're still allowed to teach chemistry(even if they have to say it's due to Allah's rules and law) if they're not allowed to teach math, so it might be an error in the article. Math may have been de-emphasized against teaching their propaganda.
Re:Actually against Islam (Score:5, Insightful)
Isis is violating a good amount of Islamic teachings with this ban.
Considering that they are not Muslims but f***ing bastards, that doesn't come unexpected. I mean they are so bad that Al'Quaeda calls them barbaric.
Re: (Score:3)
> I mean they are so bad that Al'Quaeda calls them barbaric.
This is an important point. Now I am not expert but, even I have seen stories, old stories, from back when the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were new, even back then there was intelligence chatter showing internal divides within Al Queda, even debates as to whether their own terrorist strategies are even effective in the first place.
and there really is some evidence that they are not, and the more barbaric they are, the less effective they are. I
Re: (Score:3)
Certainly, when you look at the role of Islamic scholars in developing, say, Algebra, it seems like a pretty awful departure from some aspects of history. Of course, history is full of many things, and the Qoran is full of many things, and can be used to justify many things. (You can, for instance, make a pretty solid argument that the Qoran is a lot more progressive with regard to women's rights than other monotheistic religious texts... but certainly this hasn't been playing out in implementation this cen
US is next? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is what happens when you let the religious right run a country. Doesn't matter whether they're Islamic, Christian or something else.
Re: (Score:3)
Is that a serious question? (Score:5, Interesting)
Because if it is, you need to pull your head out of your ass and go and do some extremely basic, cursory, research on the situation in the US. There are for sure some loud fundy Christian that like to whine about science, evolution in particular. However they have had little and less success in pushing their agenda and the US remains a powerful center of scientific research.
Trying to equate the US to ISIS is beyond stupid.
Re:US is next? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, it certainly sucks that a very ignorant but very vocal minority can cast a dark shadow upon a vast but comparatively silent majority. If you don't like the preconceived notions that are hung upon the religious (as perceived by the non-religious), you may want to encourage like-minded individuals to speak up on matters of science and scientific literacy. Right now the media is controlling the message that this is a two-sided debate, mostly because that's an easier sell. But it's also due to the fact that there is a HUGE contingent of people of faith who recognize a place for science in their lives, but are cowering in the corner. ISIS uses threats of violence to get the masses to bow to their whim. It's not a sword, so what is the far-right hanging over your head?
We all get and deserve the world we make.
Of course they do (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Of course they do (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Of course they do (Score:5, Interesting)
My hypothesis is that working as an engineer in Pakistan (for example) is one of the most miserable jobs you can have, with horrible managers and only somewhat better pay to compensate. Having seen how it is, I would rather work as a farmer than an engineer in that situation, it's more satisfying and enjoyable.
And this is news? (Score:3)
First of all is anyone shocked by this? Really people you think this is news? I mean next you tell me that Sun is hot.
Second this needs to be put under the politics category.
I hide Politics on Slashdot so I do not have too see this kind of story.
It is not that I am not interested in political news, the reason is that the quality of comments and editing on anything political on Slashdot is so bad.
If you disagree on the quality that is fine but Slashdot let's the users hide categories for a reason. Helpful hint editors while it does not apply to this story if the word Republican or Democrat are in the title it is politics.
Cue the Bozos (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cue the Bozos (Score:5, Insightful)
Could the USA do better? Absolutely, much, much better - But don't insult some teacher or blogger living in fear of torture or death in Syria by suggesting some teacher or blogger at West Beverly High is her peer.
I've never understood this... (Score:3, Insightful)
They don't want the kids to learn science or even mention things like evolution... Is their religion on such shaky grounds that it can't stand up to some critical thinking?
Why not then have chemistry class where two potentially explosive chemicals are mixed and the teacher tells the students "Don't worry, if your heart is pure and Allah is with you, it will not explode!"
As Dr. Tyson says -- science is true whether you believe it or not. The explosion will happen no matter what you think of Allah.
Allah doesn't protect *anyone* from a bomb or a bullet. So, what exactly is the point of learning about him/it, instead of learning math, which is actually a useful subject?
The moment you ban teaching something, it's usually because it's pretty easy to prove what bullshit your particular religion is, whether it be Christian or Muslim.
Texas Republicans don't seem to be any better, BTW.
Texas must be pissed... (Score:5, Funny)
They stole the Texas curriculum plans and implemented them.
I can't wait for the new educational ISIS program to show all students making 110% scores.
Wow...... (Score:3)
Ironic, isn't it (Score:5, Insightful)
So... (Score:5, Informative)
That's dumb (Score:4, Insightful)
You need math to aim your artillery.
CNN retracted (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
Editor's note: An earlier version of this story contained reporting about ISIS and education. CNN has concerns about the interpretation of the information provided and we will update the story when we can verify what is happening.
The original story smelled odd: why would they have anything against maths? Banning history courses make sense when you perform propaganda, but maths?
Re: (Score:3)
It is a little unexpected.
Islam, but obviously not this particular splinter, has a long and glorious history of cultivating math and science. Specifically, they invented some aspects of linear algebra to solve inheritance issue – the Koran is very specific on how much the various wives and children get.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/w... [mirror.co.uk]
Re:Algebra (Score:5, Funny)
Guess it's time to rename Algebra (al-jebr in Arabic) since they don't seem to want to be associated with that anymore.
I know: Freedom Numbers!
In fact, I think we should all boycott Arabic numerals, including the zero. Go back to good old Roman numerals, like we had before the creeping influence of Islam and Sharia Law. That'll show 'em.
Re:Cartoon villians (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
About 3000/1000.
And some shrapnel.
Re:Why math? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because ISIS doesn't give half a shit more about the Koran than the average politician over here does about the Bible. It's a tool to keep them in power and keep the sheep following them.
Why do you think people in the Middle East would be different from people in other parts of the world?
Re:Why math? (Score:4, Informative)
I suspect it might be a translation issue. But to know that we need the oppinion of someone who speaks whatever language the announcement was in, presumably Arabic. Banning math makes no sense, but it might be perhaps banning certain types of math, or preparing for a yet-to-be-finished Islamic Mathematics cirriculum that downplays the role of western mathematicians.
Languages can be tricky. Another Islamist group, widely (Though unofficially) called Boko Haram, literally translates as 'Counterfeits are prohibited' - but it actually means something closer to 'Western education is unislamic.' A translation that wouldn't be at all obvious unless you are familiar with the region's history, and knew that 'Boko' might mean counterfeit or fake, but could also be a contraction for 'ilimin boko' or 'fake education' - a phrase used to describe British schools created when the country was formerly part of the British Empire.
Re:Why math? (Score:4, Informative)
No. Almost no original mathematics was developed in Islamic countries. There was some, but the vast majority was simply transmitted by Arabic/Muslim scholars from earlier Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, etc sources.
Arabic numerals were developed in India and were called Hindu numerals. The reason we call them Arabic is we learned about them from a book written in Arabic, not because they were invented in Arabia.