Google, National Parks Partner To Let Girls Program White House Xmas Tree Lights 333
theodp writes The Washington Post reports the White House holiday decor is going digital this year, with dog-bots and crowdsourced tree lights. "Thanks to Google's Made with Code initiative," reports a National Park Foundation press release, "girls across the country will experience the beauty of code by lighting up holiday trees in President's Park, one of America's 401 national parks and home to the White House." Beginning on December 2, explains the press release, girls can head over to Google's madewithcode.com (launched last June by U.S. CTO Megan Smith, then a Google X VP), to code a design for one of the 56 state and territory trees. Girls can select the shape, size, and color of the lights, and animate different patterns using introductory programming language and their designs will appear live on the trees. "Made with Code is a fun and easy way for millions of girls to try introductory code and see Computer Science as a foundation for their futures. We're thrilled that this holiday season families across the country will be able to try their hands at a fun programming project," said former Rep. Susan Molinari, who now heads Google's lobbying and policy office in Washington, DC.
Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
But, as the feminists say.. (Score:4, Funny)
It's not sexist if it discriminates against men
But, as the feminists say.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, yes it is. Though promoting an underrepresented (Underrepresented SINCE the mid 80's, sharp decline on women in tech since then, used to be far more parity between genders before) demographic has net positive results.
But focusing on either gender exclusively IS sexist.
Silly strawman.
Re:But, as the feminists say.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair point, but I don't see it justifying sexism now. I have daughters as well as sons. Do you think it's reasonable to tell the boys that their sister gets to do something cool but they don't because someone entirely unrelated to them or me did something wrong so long ago their father wasn't yet in elementary school when it happened?
I'm completely for stopping all kinds of discrimination, but when you're taking things from the grandchildren of the people who actually performed the discrimination, you're doing it wrong.
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On the other hand, I don't really have a problem with programs that actively solicit the under-represented party - so long as they are not exclusionary. So if they call it a "girls event" to try and draw in girls but actually don't forbid boys from participating I'm OK with it. It's not like they'll be checking genitalia at the door.
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Discrimination feminazi are trying to stop aren't real in the first place. Sure, if a women goes in a team of single man, everybody will try to bang her, but the same is also true, if a men appear in a team of single women, every women will try to bang him, women are not perfect being either... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem... [dailymail.co.uk]
Re:But, as the feminists say.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The best way to fight discrimination is to set the example by not discriminating. A few generations ago, kids were segregated by sex in school. Today we'd see that as definitely interfering with their normal social development.
Ditto this program - admit equal numbers of both sexes/genders, get them to work together and experience the fact that the other sex likes it as well, making it normal that either sex can do it. What are we always telling our kids? "Two wrongs don't make a right." Maybe we should be more consistent in practicing what we preach, or they'll see that discrimination based on sex is still okay.
Re:But, as the feminists say.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Yup. And if you introduce systemic biases (quotas, lowered entrance requirements, etc.) to encourage girls to do something, then invariably some of those girls will be less qualified than the boys who get excluded. When the boys notice this (and they will), then they'll start to assume that all girls are less qualified. And thanks to confirmation bias, this perception will tend to strengthen over time, because they'll always notice the underqualified women and won't notice the qualified women. Thus, in the long run, using reverse biasing to counter discrimination almost invariably leads to more discrimination, not less.
And although it is unclear whether contests that are strictly for women will have the same effect, at a minimum, they'll cause envy, which is almost certainly not an effective way to encourage men to take women in STEM more seriously.
You can't fix discrimination with more discrimination. The only way to fix discrimination is with marketing—by hyping the heck out of members of underrepresented groups who are good at what they do, so that they'll serve as examples for other people in those underrepresented groups, and will encourage them to work harder to overcome the discrimination and take jobs in particular fields. This approach is also the only way to counteract the confirmation bias that is the source of nearly all discrimination—by repeatedly showing examples that contradict the biased expectations, and by showing those counterexamples far more often than they see confirmatory examples.
For example, if you want to get more girls into a contest like this, when you advertise the contest, use mostly pictures of girls. Don't change the rules; don't change the requirements; change the image you project. Unlike every other strategy, this works, and has been repeatedly proven to work through decades of advertising research.
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Re:But, as the feminists say.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's fairly common to have programs specifically for underrepresented groups, especially if there is a goal of changing traditional perceptions that led to that underrepresentation. With gender it works the other way as well, with male-targeted programs in traditionally female occupations, such as those run by the American Assembly for Men in Nursing [aamn.org].
In principle none of these occupations have to do with gender, but due to the significant imbalance and cultural attitudes around it, I think being a man in nu
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Informative)
This is the swedish paradox. The more equal the society the more likely that the sex's flock to 'traditional' roles.
The only difference seems to be in reaction to this, in sweden they decided to study it and found out, *gasp* human brains between the sexs are pretty much wired differently. Who would of thought of that in a species with sexual dimorphism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
In the united states how ever, the lack of women in STEM jobs and the lack of men in Nursing is seen not as a result of hard wired biological differences. But some kind of 'oppression' like women bullying men who go into nursing, and some invisible boogeyman called the 'patriarchy' calling women 'bossy' and making them not want to be leaders and such.
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Who would of thought of that
God dammit. Why do people constantly do this? It makes me rage harder than TFA.
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No-one is trying to make men and women the same. You misunderstand the problem.
Some girls are interested in programming. Some boys are interested in nursing. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons they are either not encouraged or actually put off pursuing those interests. The idea here is to enable children to do the things they want to do, not to force them to do things they have no interest in.
There will always be some imbalance because of the reasons you outlined. However, that doesn't mean it's okay to
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Depends, really. When my ex-wife first began nursing school, the only guys you saw in her class were considered to be homosexual (even by many of the female classmates). This stemmed from the perception of nursing as a caring and nurturing profession, more akin to motherhood than to traditional male traits.
I suspect that aside form what other guys think, there's also the 'ick' factor among male patients who have a male nurse, especially when it comes to things involving the more intimate bits of the human b
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Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
Was my first thought too.
I can just see having to explain to a 7-year-old-child that heard about the program and doesn't understand why he can't try to be involved that it's because he's a boy. It's not just sexist, it may literally be the first obvious example of sexism that a young child notices.
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can just see having to explain to a 7-year-old-child that heard about the program and doesn't understand why he can't try to be involved that it's because he's a boy.
We've already had to have that conversation with our 10 year old son. The Engineering faculty of our local university runs a Raspberry Pi programming course...but only for girls. My wife contacted them to ask about programs for our son. The super enthusiastic airhead who responded suggested that they had lots of programs for boys but really it boils down to a few places in a summer program and even then much of that program is for girls only. My wife got as far as asking them how their blatant sexism was consistent with the Alberta Human Rights act but got a typical email full of PR but empty of content. In the EU such practice would actually be illegal under gender discrimination laws in Alberta it is less clear since they have this get-out clause 'unless there is a justifiable reason'.
So we had to explain that there were no programs for him because he is a boy which he had a really hard time understanding because he has always been taught that sexism is wrong. Since actions speak louder than words this has undermined the lesson that he had learnt and I've already heard him once tease his older sister that she shouldn't use computers until she has had the 'special lessons for girls'! So as a scheme to eradicate sexism this is an epic way to shoot yourself in the foot. Even simple logic tells you that you cannot eradicate sexism while actually practicing it!
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Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly you missed a great opportunity to do the obvious: have him listed as a girl. Don't even bother trying to dress him up as what you imagine a girl would look like. And if they ask, he can say, "Sure, for the purposes of this program, I'm a girl". If they push the issue or kick him out, write a letter to the Chancellor of your University asking that if you have your son bind his genitals like women used to bind their breasts if he can return to the program? Perhaps if you dress him in gaudy makeup and dresses?
Be sure to forward a copy to your local TV station. The real truth of eradicating sexism is to make a big fuss when sexism occurs. Just quietly writing on /. doesn't do a lot. Making a civil disobedience spectacle? It might not change anything, but it'll teach your son something more valuable than rolling over to some "airhead". It'll show you can participate in a program and gain something even when they actively deny you.
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he has always been taught that sexism is wrong. Since actions speak louder than words this has undermined the lesson that he had learnt
On the contrary, it's the perfect time to teach him a healthy disrespect for authority and how to think for himself.
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As my user byline says, "Political Correctness: the misguided practice of enforcing the tenet that two wrongs make a right." as it so often leads to a form of discrimination to fight discrimination.
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Interesting)
Barbie showed her drawing to Skipper. "Isn't that a pretty Christmas tree light pattern? The arrows show how it'll go!"
"Oooooih! That's pretty! I can't wait to see it!" squealed Skipper!
"Hmmmm," thought Barbie. "Now all I need is one of the boys to program it for me!"
(3 pages skipped)
"And programming...done! Switch it on! Oh, here, like this [switches it on]", said the boy.
"And our national winner of best Christmas tree programmer is Barbie Mattel!" The president grinned and shook her hand. "What an excellent programmer!"
"I know!" exclamatederionoed Barbie!
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He'll probably assume the reason is that girls need extra help because they're dumb.
Quoted for visibility: Most folks, when not given a sufficient reason for something, will come up with one of their own. A child isn't going to know (much less comprehend) all the (let's face it, oftentimes dumb) nuances of ideology or politics, so they'll often come up with and go for the simplest explanation they can contrive given what they know.
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Re: Girls, girls, girls... (Score:3, Insightful)
The fuck, man?
Please don't attach your shitty upbringing to every single man. Your dad didn't raise me.
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I guess Marie Curie was just whistling Dixie?
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Rosalind Franklin?
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:4, Insightful)
"To this day, I am very upset that we have all done a grave disservice to ourselves by turning our backs on a 50-50 chance of benefiting from a female Einstein." nobody is arguing that women should be shut-out of tech. They are arguing against discrimination against boys. Tell me how locking boys out of opportunities helps us produce the next female Einstein.
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And yes, being a man means that you definitively can do the dishes, after repairing the car, after writing some kernel code, after having fixed the pluming, after having done some web dev.
Doing the dishes is one of only two things on that list that I can do, and of those two, I'd much rather do the dishes.
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Sexist much?
I agree, first thing on my mind too. I understand people want more women in programming, but this? THIS? This is literally the definition of sexism. You're telling me that just because someone is a boy, he can't operate the White House's Christmas Lights? Unbelievable.
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Re: Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Girls, girls, girls... (Score:5, Funny)
Sexist much?
They're worried that boys would know Morse code for "GET STUFFED OBAMA"
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Sexist much?
Just being practical. They didn't want a giant pulsating cock & balls in lights. Come on, you know that would happen if they let boys in.
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You know, initially I was outraged, the same as you. And then it occurred to me that if you let the boys design the Christmas tree lights, eventually the White House would be adorned with 12 foot tall penis light sculptures...
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Truth in advertising.
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You know, initially I was outraged, the same as you. And then it occurred to me that if you let the boys design the Christmas tree lights, eventually the White House would be adorned with 12 foot tall penis light sculptures...
You appear to have a phallic obsession. I personally like boobs.
Re: Girls, girls, girls... (Score:2)
Just wondering (Score:3)
Really, this all feels good, but are there going to be jobs available, or will this just be the next over-educated group making that minimum wage at McDonalds?
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I don't know of any talented developer who is concerned about jobs going to India. Have you ever worked with foreign outsourcing? They make me feel MORE secure in my job.
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I don't know of any talented developer who is concerned about jobs going to India. Have you ever worked with foreign outsourcing? They make me feel MORE secure in my job.
Well, it was mostly a joke. But how many jobs are there going to be for American programmers, outside of defense, where they pretty much have to be citizens?
This is more of a politically motivated thing than any real shortage. If there was a real shortage, would gender really matter?
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Oh, yeah, there are NO programming jobs available...
Just move to California. Every company is looking for 5 programmers.
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Oh, yeah, there are NO programming jobs available...
Just move to California. Every company is looking for 5 programmers.
Unless they ae in Defense, probably H1-B's .
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By the way, your last paragraph is exactly what should be said to all those complaining. That's the problem entirely, *they* don't want to "fix" it, they want someone *else* forced into "fixing" it. Which pretty much sounds like what you want.
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Blather. "Get girls interested in coding"... As if it's a little friggin' switch you throw in the brain.
I'm more concerend about transgenders in coding. Why doesn't anyone think of the shemales?
Re:Just wondering (Score:4, Insightful)
There's not an infinite amount of money, therefore there is not an infinite demand for products, therefore there is not an infinite demand for companies.
By definition, only a certain fraction of society will be succesful at starting a company that can employ people, regardles of individual qualities.
Re: Just wondering (Score:2)
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Gender discrimination is cool now? (Score:3, Insightful)
Apparently it's OK to be sexist as long as it's in the "correct" direction.
Fun factoid: If the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) had been passed in the 1980s, then this little government side-show would be black & white unconstitutional... I'm pretty sure the supporters of the ERA wouldn't have liked the outcome...
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Speaking as a supporter of the ERA, I think if it had been passed in the 80's our society would be very different today, and I'd accept this minor cost pretty happily.
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These groups don't actually discriminate against boys. They let them in, and are just labeled and marketed to encourage underrepresented groups.
Re:Gender discrimination is cool now? (Score:4, Insightful)
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No one ever forced you to use any of those words. No one stuffed them in your mouth. (going on probabilities here)You've never even seen the in popular culture outside satire of their use. Calm down.
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Actually you'll find the most objection goes to the feminist "corrective" "remedies" like coining new words such as "womyn," "snowperson," "herstory," etc. intended to stamp out language bias you're referring to. A writer named Eric Arthur Blair wrote a book about correct language in action. Check it out, maybe we can police thoughts after we police language.
We're already halfway there.
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*You can call this one if you want.
No, he can't. As you so colorfully put it: "That's not an 'ad hominem', douchebag"
I promise I won't even start a petty debate about the difference between an insult and an ad hominem.
Well, I guess it's on now ... My bad.
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Okay, since we're derailing a bit:
The insult just distracts from the point. Functionally it's similar to an ad hominemem in that sense, even if it's ancillary to the point I'm actually making. I felt calling him a douchebag was worthwhile because he was making one of those "I called your argument a fallacy therefor I win" internet debate styles that's just the worst, especially when they're wrong about it being a fallacy. I hate those guys, and feel no remorse about insulting them.
The thing he called an
Re:Gender discrimination is cool now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Like marketing real estate for specific racial groups?
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It's almost like there's a history of abuse in that arena, that distinguishes it.
Guess what, you can't legally sell real estate to only women either. This "see it's just like this time the empowered majority abused the dis-empowered minority, except all these dozens of ways it's not" arguments are always really lame.
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YES.
Re:Gender discrimination is cool now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, is this right or is this wrong? No, you do not get to know the gender of my cousin. You must decide whether this is right or wrong without that knowledge. Because if it is wrong in one direction, it is wrong in all directions, and a history of gender discrimination in one direction does not change that fact, no matter how much you might claim that it should.
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If the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) had been passed in the 1980s, then this little government side-show would be black & white unconstitutional....
An interesting choice of words, especially considering the 14th amendment and '60s civil rights laws, etc. which did pass; yet we still have Ferguson today.
Déjà Vu: the first christmas tree on the (Score:3, Interesting)
Anybody remember this: http://www.nytimes.com/1993/12... [nytimes.com] ?
"Thousands of Internet tourists used their computers to tap into a central computer at Cygnus Support, a software company in Mountain View, Calif., to see the "xmastree." (The name itself is a joke to cyberspace insiders, who regularly use programs with names that start with "x," as in xterm or xwindows.)
"Two programmers at Cygnus had wired a real, 7-foot Christmas tree directly to the company's internal computer network, using simple controllers that enabled people on Cygnus Support's office network to turn the decorations, bells and lights on and off without leaving their computer terminals. The 6,000 or so outsiders who peered in from the Internet could view a simple computer rendering of the tree and check a status report to see which doodads were on and which were off, but only the people on Cygnus's local network could play with the switches."
um... (Score:3)
Hack turning lights into something totally inappropriate coming in... 3... 2... 1...
Re:um... (Score:5, Funny)
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Now that's a real possibility. It's pretty clear they're running arbitrary code on some machine on the whitehouse network. It can't be that hard to escape a sandbox when you've got arbitrary code with necessary access to a hardware layer.
I think this would make a good theme for next years' innocent looking C contest.
Sexist, but not in the way people are thinking. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, this is sexist, but not how others here are posting - sexism against boys (which actually isn't the case, as people are pointing out now). This is sexist in that it extends an invite for girls to code - for something pretty, something cute, something showy. Something typically associated with girls. It perpetuates the same kind of sexism as the "Barbie is a computer engineer" thing that got everyone so in a kerfuffle recently.
Re:Sexist, but not in the way people are thinking. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is sexist in that it extends an invite for girls to code - for something pretty, something cute, something showy. Something typically associated with girls.
I agree. They should put them on a project that's less showy but more important. Perhaps they could reprogram the White House's security system. It's not like they could do a worse job than is already being done [cnn.com]. And if they did? Oh, well.
Re:Sexist, but not in the way people are thinking. (Score:4, Informative)
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Counterpoint: as a boy learning to code in my spare time, screen savers were an early fascination of mine. Clearly decorative, but also useful. Christmas lights are a very public very interesting environment to work with. You're right that it's not the most sex-atypical(meant in the sociological sense, not some biotruths way) thing in the universe, but it's probably the most public display of work a kid could possibly work with.
I'm not saying you're wrong, that some "clever" idiot came up with it, just t
Re:Sexist, but not in the way people are thinking. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know if that's really an issue. Boys and girls do like different things, and not taking those issues into account while trying to spark interest in a child would be foolish.
And I don't buy that it's all learned behavior. My son is 2 and when we decorated his room and bought his toys when he was born, it was all animal stuff, which is gender neutral. That wasn't on purpose...I wasn't trying to be some gender-neutral hippy dad. It just happened that we used animal stuff. When we started bringing him to daycare at around 8 months old the other kids that he saw every day were three slightly older girls and they were into princess stuff. I'm not in construction, I don't drive a big truck, I don't watch TV shows about trucks. Besides "no," "mama," and "dada" my son's first word? "Truck." He'd point out trucks everywhere we go. Lose his shit if he saw a fire truck. All he wants to play with are trucks. I have no idea where the exposure to trucks came from. And it's fine by me, I wasn't trying for or against "boy stuff," just saying if you want to interest him in programming, making a game where you play with trucks would be a good idea. Girls are frequently not as interested in trucks. A programming challenge about, say, Christmas trees might interest them more.
When I was a kid and I'd type in BASIC programs from books or magazines into my Apple IIe, they were mostly games, like a version of Space Invaders where you're shooting aliens. That probably wouldn't interest a lot of little girls as much as writing a program to control Christmas lights would.
That said, I think it's complete bullshit to have a national program like this and specifically exclude boys. I'm really wary of all these "get kids coding!" and "code bootcamp" bullshit programs. It's just Zuckerberg and pals trying to flood the market with as many programmers as possible to drive down wages because they're incensed about having to pay middle class wages for developers. They don't have enough billions, obviously.
And don't give me the "but not everybody can code..." thing. True, but there's an awful lot of people who could code who would have done something else. Maybe they'd have been a biologist or a librarian instead, but they see that they can code and that it's a good bet for a decent job and go with it. You still wind up with a flood of competent coders.
Re:Sexist, but not in the way people are thinking. (Score:5, Insightful)
not how others here are posting - sexism against boys (which actually isn't the case, as people are pointing out now).
Excluding a sex from something is sexist by definition.
How the fuck am I supposed to tell my son that his sister can do cool stuff but he can't because he's a boy?
The White House lawn is a park? (Score:2)
Can you really call it a park when the public is not allowed to use it?
Re:The White House lawn is a park? (Score:5, Insightful)
The public can and does use it. You can too, you just have to be faster than the secret service.
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I wish this were around when I was a kid (Score:2)
*Looks between legs*
Shit, nevermind.
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>> I didn't get into programming until college because I was never introduced to the idea that it was something I could just sit down and do
Hmm, I didn't need someone to introduce me to the idea, I just did it.
Reverse discrimination (Score:2)
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Gender gap.... (Score:3)
Re:Not just girls (Score:4, Insightful)
feminists are sexist, just as "equal opportunity" pushers are white-hating racists
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This can happen regardless of color. As I understand it, the kid had removed the orange tips from the "gun" which is supposed to help the police know that it is a toy.* Orange tip or not, I can remember specifically telling my son that he was NOT to point his cap-gun at ANYONE, and he was not allowed to play with it in the car as we returned from Disneyworld, where we had purchased it.
* Re: the orange tips, I have always wondered how often (or why don't) criminals paint the tip of a real gun orange, just
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Re:*sighs* (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like you to explicitly describe the sexism you are imaging exists in madewithcode, because you guys almost never do any research before opening your defensive little mouths.
Huh? how is madewithcode NOT sexist? Hit madewithcode.com and then hit all of the top-level links. Lots of pictures of people. Not one guy. MENTORS showcases 5 people, all girls. MAKERS showcases 5 people, all girls. COMMUNITY has one image of 4 people, all girls.
Maybe you just meant code.org - in which case maybe you're right, but madewithcode is clearly designed for girls and only girls.
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Okay, so, you think overrepresenation is a bad thing, now? If that's the metric we're going by, I've got some bad news for you.
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"...we're making it our mission to creatively engage girls with code."
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To quote myself
The worst that some of these orgs do is say they're trying to encourage underrepresented groups.
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Sure, but no one sees a problem there. And we aren't going to rally behind your movement to fix the problem with a mere 92% representation in the industry.
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