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The Media Google

Google News To Shut Down In Spain On December 16th 183

An anonymous reader writes The news aggregation services offered by Google is set to be no longer available for Spain, starting December 16th, 2014. The decision of Google comes as response to new Spanish legislation that gives publishers the right to claim compensation for republishing any part of their content. This follows news of services of startup Uber being forbidden in countries like Spain as well as Germany and some city councils worldwide like Delhi, or other services like AirBnb being put under pressure to cope with local laws in other jurisdictions.
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Google News To Shut Down In Spain On December 16th

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  • by Markus Tenghamn ( 2919309 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @08:52AM (#48571835) Homepage
    or go out of business as soon as they notice that more and more people are no longer finding their news site.
    • They won't change their minds - not until it's too late (which, for many of them, it already is). It's already been tried elsewhere, with negative results:

      FTFA

      in November, Germany's largest publisher, Axel Springer scrapped a bid to block Google after an experiment by a consortium of about 200 German publishers caused online traffic to plunge. Internet search experts say the shutdown of Google News in Spain may be greater on smaller, less-well known news publishers than on name-brand news sites who are less reliant on the site to draw in readers

      • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:08AM (#48571953)

        > the shutdown of Google News in Spain may be greater on smaller, less-well known news publishers than on name-brand news sites

        Which seems to be the goal of most new legislation: protect the big established players, kill the small upcoming competition.

        • Assuming the summary is correct (I know, I know), the legislation doesn't require payment by Google, it only allows the original publisher to collect payment from Google. If the small publishers want to have links to their sites show up in Google News without Google paying them, all they would have to do is send a letter to Google granting them permission. It would be up to each publisher to decide which way they want to go.
          • Isn't that what a robots.txt file is for? Does Google somehow now obey robots.txt when spidering sites for news content? If you don't want Google to republish your content without compenstation, you should disallow their bot in your robots.txt file.

            Also, I would like to know why this only applies to Google news. I'm pretty sure Google puts excerpts from the article in regular search results as well. Why are those excerpts not counted in this legislation while the ones on Google News are?
          • by mjtaylor24601 ( 820998 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @10:34AM (#48572621)

            Assuming the summary is correct (I know, I know), the legislation doesn't require payment by Google, it only allows the original publisher to collect payment from Google. If the small publishers want to have links to their sites show up in Google News without Google paying them, all they would have to do is send a letter to Google granting them permission. It would be up to each publisher to decide which way they want to go.

            From what I've read [searchengineland.com] the Spanish law specifically does not allow publishers to opt out.

            "If you are a digital editor that publishes with a copyleft license, like myself, and you minimally understand how the internet actually works, you cannot decide to not charge Google News. It is compulsory. More than a right it is an obligation. Therefore, Google cannot exclude sites requiring payment from Google News. It would still need to pay for those it includes, even if they do not want to be compensated."

            • by Dragonslicer ( 991472 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @10:37AM (#48572647)
              Well, damn. That is a pretty fucked up law.
              • by gnupun ( 752725 )

                It's not fucked up. If it was not made compulsory, some sites (aka traitors) would offer their news articles to google news for free. Then google would only show news articles they got for free and refuse to show articles from news sites that demand a payment. Pretty soon, the payment news site would die out from lack of visibility on the web. So the law is designed to prevent that -- prevent people from offering free stuff that would destroy the market.

                If google won't pay, some other news aggregator will a

                • by mbkennel ( 97636 )

                  "If google won't pay, some other news aggregator will arise and will offer the same service but with payment to news sites."

                  With what money?
                  • by gnupun ( 752725 )

                    Good question, and I don't know the answer. The money could come from ads or a subscription or a hybrid of those two.

            • Is there also a minimum compensation specified by law?
              • I haven't specifically seen it mentioned one way or the other but I have to imagine that there is. Why bother making the fee compulsory if you're going to allow people to just turn around and charge a fee of $0? Surely the lawmakers must have seen that one coming.
                • Surely the lawmakers must have seen that one coming.

                  You have more faith in Politicians than I do.

                • Why bother making the fee compulsory if you're going to allow people to just turn around and charge a fee of $0?

                  There's a simple answer to that: charge any publisher who wants to be relisted the mandatory compensation amount, plus 10%. Let the publishers pay their own subsidy.

            • Will Spain's gov compensate the media for lost volume? In fact, can these companies sue the gov for loss of business?
        • by khallow ( 566160 )
          I was thinking the same thing. These sorts of rules always seem to favor the large, established player.
          • Because that's how governments work these days ... whoever has the deepest pockets to pay the government to pass laws which favor them wins.

            Welcome to the oligarchy. America is as mired in this crap as anyone else, if not more.

            The world is now largely defined in terms of corporate interests, and governments will do anything they're asked for the most part.

            And since the copyright cartels have been leading this charge, don't be surprised that they're further fucking things up for their own short-term interes

            • Hmmm. The people who oppose this are called laissez-faire or free-market capitalists. Maybe there is something to limited government after all?
        • by iwbcman ( 603788 )

          > the shutdown of Google News in Spain may be greater on smaller, less-well known news publishers than on name-brand news sites

          Which seems to be the goal of most new legislation: protect the big established players, kill the small upcoming competition.

          On what planet do you live? Obviously not the earth because Google is small relative to no other existing companies in the world.

          To be honest we simply have not yet found the "right" answer to the problems posed the by the new internet technologies, whether that be in regards to news content, publishing, music or video distribution. The fact remains Google does not do news, they do not employee reporters, they do no investigative reporting, they do absolutely nothing that adds any value to the actual work d

      • by TWX ( 665546 )
        I guess we'll have to see if the elimination of the entire service as a whole (ie, Spain) functions differently than the exclusion of the search results from that service (ie, Germany).
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

        Internet search experts say the shutdown of Google News in Spain may be greater on smaller, less-well known news publishers than on name-brand news sites who are less reliant on the site to draw in readers

        Obviously they have calculated that he loss of traffic from Google News will result in less revenue loss than the reduction in traffic due to smaller sites getting more of "their" traffic.

        • Internet search experts say the shutdown of Google News in Spain may be greater on smaller, less-well known news publishers than on name-brand news sites who are less reliant on the site to draw in readers

          Obviously they have calculated that he loss of traffic from Google News will result in less revenue loss than the reduction in traffic due to smaller sites getting more of "their" traffic.

          That could very well be part of their calculation - squeeze the little players out. Fortunately, the reality is that smaller players are usually less ossified, more flexible, lower fixed overhead, and more likely to take chances the bigger players wouldn't even consider. And people always sympathize with the underdog :-)

          • People might sympathize with and support the underdog, but if Google News is taken out of the picture, people might not ever see these small sites at all. You can't support something if you don't know it is out there.

            • This is true, unfortunately. However, there's nothing stopping these smaller sites from buying ads ... or giving google permission to index their sites for a nominal fee, say $1 a year (or in exchange for $X worth of advertising).
              • by xvan ( 2935999 )
                They can't set their own fee / arrangement. Only the Big Guys Conglomerate can negotiate.

                las últimas declaraciones de Wert contradicen ese carácter de irrenunciabilidad, sin embargo los agregadores no pueden negociar con el medio directamente (lo haría AEDE) y sólo sirve para la cuantía, no para la exención.

                Spanish source in Spanish: http://es.gizmodo.com/internet... [gizmodo.com] http://es.gizmodo.com/que-sign... [gizmodo.com]

      • Or they'll double-down and use the subsequent tanking of their sites as "proof" for the EU Gov that Google is an "unfair monopoly".

        How could this play out?
        Step one : We poor, highly-taxed Europeans will be asked to dip once again into our empty pockets, this time to fund a bunch of over over-paid bureaucrats while they "investigate" Google,
        Step two: They'll recommend that we subsidise a state-sponsored European alternative to Google, which will fail.

        Don't laugh - they're mad enough to try it.

        • by doru ( 541245 )

          They'll recommend that we subsidise a state-sponsored European alternative to Google, which will fail.

          Don't laugh - they're mad enough to try it.

          Such as Quaero [wikipedia.org], for instance ?

      • by sribe ( 304414 )

        They won't change their minds - not until it's too late (which, for many of them, it already is). It's already been tried elsewhere, with negative results:

        I think google should move to comply with this IMMEDIATELY, as in they should have stopped aggregating these publishers within minutes of the law becoming effective. And then when publishers do relent, I think they should take a few weeks, at least, to start making that content available. Just my opinion ;-)

        • They won't change their minds - not until it's too late (which, for many of them, it already is). It's already been tried elsewhere, with negative results:

          I think google should move to comply with this IMMEDIATELY, as in they should have stopped aggregating these publishers within minutes of the law becoming effective. And then when publishers do relent, I think they should take a few weeks, at least, to start making that content available. Just my opinion ;-)

          Publishers cannot relent. The law doesn't allow them to require payment for snippets (like the German law did), it requires them to require payment. Which is why Google is shutting Google News down entirely in Spain... since all Spanish publisher are required to get paid, and Google isn't going to pay them, there will be no Spanish content for the Spanish Google News, making it useless.

          • by sribe ( 304414 )

            Publishers cannot relent.

            Of course they can. They can go back to the same politicians they bamboozled the first time, and say "oops!" and get the law repealed.

            • Publishers cannot relent.

              Of course they can. They can go back to the same politicians they bamboozled the first time, and say "oops!" and get the law repealed.

              True. I suspect it won't happen, though, because the most influential publishers are also the ones who will be least harmed. And, if you believe other commenters with more knowledge of Spanish politics, the ones who will be propped up by government funding should they be hurt too much.

        • then when publishers do relent

          It doesn't matter what the publishers say, Google will have to comply until the law is changed. I'd be rather surprised if that happens quickly.

    • or go out of business as soon as they notice that more and more people are no longer finding their news site.

      This is a classic case of someone assuming something has value, that can be extracted from a user, simply because it is available or used. Google probably aggregates a lot more news then ever gets read; to assume that is a signal that their is value in the content being used. In reality, it is used because it is free, much like the free papers you see in many cities. People will read them if they are free but if they have to pay then they pass. As a result, papers give out free editions to reach an audienc

      • The real question is will they go back and demand that lawmakers "fix" this by forcing Google to aggregate and pay or realize their basic assumption is wrong and abolish the law? I'd bet on some variant of the former.

        Consider what google is doing in Spain. It'd be like demanding a general store carry bicycles after it decided to get out of the bicycle business because it was unprofitable.

        Google is getting out of the news aggregation business in the country completely. Well, unless they fold like Germany did.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @08:55AM (#48571851)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Nemyst ( 1383049 )
      Thing is, it's likely that this will have a negative impact (according to what happened in Germany, and that wasn't even a complete shutdown), but I very much doubt Google will be quick to come back when the Spanish go "Please forgive us!"
    • Pretty much the only thing I can see that connects these three are that a US company operating abroad sometimes doesn't find a service that's legal in the US to be legal or practical in $RANDOM_COUNTY_THAT_ISNT_MERICA

      Conversely, American companies need to grow into the rest of the world to keep their shareholders happy and keep revenues moving upwards.

      America has largely put it's eggs into the basket of global technology corporations who keep expanding their markets indefinitely, and buoy the stock market,

      • That is because you cannot get wildly rich in the stock market unless there is lots of volatility in it. The only way to make lots of money is when a company either gains or loses value faster than what is expected. Notice this is the perceived market value not the actual value a company has.

  • Censorship (Score:5, Interesting)

    by javilon ( 99157 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:02AM (#48571903) Homepage

    I am from Spain. The most interesting thing about this is that this stupid law was rushed throught the parlamentary process by surprise, with an ammendment added at the last minute. On the same period, three of the most important reporters that were critical to the government in the big spanish media were fired.

    There is especulation that the two things are linked and this was a deal between the Spanish government and the owners of the big media conglomerates in Spain. The media got this law against Google in exchange for supporting the ailing government party which is 50% down in the polls as compared to the last general election, and panicking.

    So the big media owners got what they wanted in exchange of censoring news critical to the government. What they do not realize is that this is going to hit their bottom lines because Google is not going to fold down. The are going to lose lots of money and media, and other newspapers from outside Spain are going to increase their share. At the end they will run to the government asking them to remove this law. Or they may even do it before the law is in place, when they see that Google is going to shut them down. The will deserve the humilliation. And this will tarnish their credibility because of the deal they did with the government. They are fools.

    • The problem I see here is a symptom of Europe run by people who are from another era, at least in terms of thinking. The reaction by the papers is a natural one, but it is more of a knee jerk reaction that trying to understand the technology and how it works. What we need are younger people getting into politics, at least in terms of technology advisors, such that decisions aren't being made based on a reality that is 40 years past.

      For the journalists, often the best way to be able to write open their own c

      • Re:Censorship (Score:5, Interesting)

        by javilon ( 99157 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:38AM (#48572159) Homepage

        You are right,

        And in a way, this can be seen as a reaction to the raise of a political party in Spain: Podemos. It translates into "we can" and it is made up of young people that are trying to rethink the whole democracy thing, turning it into a more direct democracy. It has gone from not existing to being the first in the polls in a period of two years. It has the old traditional parties panicking.

        This seems to be the answer from the old elite. Censorship and personal attacks. And it is backfiring. With each of this actions, they show how corrupted and misguided they are, and podemos raises in the polls. People do not trust the traditional media (TV and papers) anymore and seeks information directly from other sources on the web.

        I don't think podemos will end up governing the country. They are far left, at least they were at the beginning, although they are moderating their statements as they become wider. But this is causing lots of changes for good on Spanish politics, with the traditional parties not being able to turn their head anymore on corruption, corporate tax evasion or undehanded lobying.

      • by marsu_k ( 701360 )
        Yes, Europe is a homogeneous entity with no differing opinions and policies whatsoever.
      • by rmstar ( 114746 )

        The problem I see here is a symptom of Europe run by people who are from another era, at least in terms of thinking. The reaction by the papers is a natural one, but it is more of a knee jerk reaction that trying to understand the technology and how it works.

        The people who "run Europe" may be from a different era, but it is a bit too much to simply assume that they are stupid.

        The problem they are trying to address with laws like this is the destruction of the press by the internet. I know, technology and bu

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

        Na, it's just standard MBA thinking. If Google can make a news web site and get all that traffic, then surely if the news sites can get it shut down there will be a gap in the market and people will just go directly to their sites, right? The content is the valuable bit, not the aggregation... Or, well, if people like aggregation, let's aggregate all the different brands our company owns, that's the same thing.

      • Europe. Right. Because this is what happens in each and every European country. For example the ones that see broadband as a basic human right. They're thinking in another era too.

        Of course, that era is ahead of the US, but the point still holds, right?

    • At the end they [the newspapers] will run to the government asking them to remove this law.

      And the critical reporters will still be fired.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by fnj ( 64210 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:05AM (#48571923)

    Spain and certain other countries are wallowing relics of another age, unable to adapt to the new reality. The loss is theirs. How do they expect to keep their populations from discovering the power of VPNs, Tor, and the other facilities which can effortlessly sidestep their moronic restrictions?

    • Or people in Spain can just use Google Search, and get news stories from elsewhere (search isn't being shut down).
    • Spain and certain other countries are wallowing relics of another age, unable to adapt to the new reality. The loss is theirs. How do they expect to keep their populations from discovering the power of VPNs, Tor, and the other facilities which can effortlessly sidestep their moronic restrictions?

      You're missing the point.
      Google isn't going to stop showing "news" in spain. They are going to stop showing "Spanish Newspapers" in spain. Spanish citizens wont stop reading the news, they'll just get it from sources outside of the country. The media industries victory is going to turn to ashes in their mouth pretty quickly.

  • The average newspaper "subscription fee" barely covers the cost of paper and distribution. Newspapers make their real money selling ads. Now those same local newspapers to me want me to buy a subscription to their online versions that cost nothing in paper and almost nothing to distribute? Their online money comes from me clicking through relevant advertisements I find while reading. Make me pay for the _privilege_ to read your news and I'll go elsewhere. Getting listed in an aggregator like news.googl
    • by Half-pint HAL ( 718102 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:34AM (#48572117)

      Newspaper advertising traditionally gained its value from the newspaper's demographic. You know the readership, so you know who you're advertising to. Certain newspapers will carry adverts for cheap lager, others expensive champagne. But this notion of a "readership" has been destroyed by Google News -- people now don't chose "their" newspaper, and the advertising becomes untargeted. Newspaper websites are now looking at the same sort of advertising revenues as people's personal blogs. Everything is outsourced to the Google algorithm, and the newspaper itself adds no value to the advertiser.

      It is possible that ending the Google News aggregation will mean that sites regain a "readership" and therefore can return to negotiating their own advertising, and that this will result in them returning to profit.

  • by korbulon ( 2792438 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:16AM (#48572001)

    ...and a little bit retarded.

    If only this were about making a stand against Google, but it's not. As with what happend last year in France, It's mostly about moribund institutions looking for a handout. What's also astonishing is the bit about republishing "any part of their content." Yes, I think this will end well.

    This is just another example of the special relationship that exists in Spain between corporate interests and the government; almost always against the best interests of the consumer. So you get things like a maximum of 5% discount on books, no Uber, an arbitrary tax on recordable media and recording devices that goes to a slush fund fronting as a recording artists association. All with the blessing and sanction of the government. !Arriba Espana!

    • by ccguy ( 1116865 )

      ...and a little bit retarded.

      If only this were about making a stand against Google, but it's not.

      You guys are missing the whole point of this law. It's not about the news corporation making money, really. At all. This is what the law is about:

      - Whenever any news article is linked from anything (except "social networks") that "anything" has to pay to the media association. It doesn't matter if you link to a newspaper that doesn't want to be paid. It doesn't work that pay. If there's a link, payment to that association is mandatory.

      So the expected result is that there's going to be less links, which

      • I think you may be right. What's worse, I'm not sure it's entirely intentional. Unfortunately, Spain lives by its own version of Hanlon's Razor: never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity, greed or laziness (but most likely all three).
  • Unlike German law (Score:5, Informative)

    by BigFire ( 13822 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @09:26AM (#48572059)

    where individual newspaper publisher can wave their fee and beg Google to reindex their paper, the Spanish version of the law is universal. The only way for the newspaper to get their content re-indexed is for the law to either be tossed out or they repeal it. Oh the pain will last longer here.

  • Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead
  • Won't google just change the default news site (on chrome, chromebooks and android devices) to news.google.com and have a link there for espanol...

  • by mcvos ( 645701 ) on Thursday December 11, 2014 @10:19AM (#48572497)

    Some big errors in the summary:

    The decision of Google comes as response to new Spanish legislation that gives publishers the right to claim compensation for republishing any part of their content.

    No, if this was the case, it'd just be a rehash of the German situation. No, the problem here is that it gives publishers the obligation to claim compensation. This law is specifically designed to prevent the German situation. So other newspapers can't decide they'd rather have Google's traffic anyway, and thereby undermine this boycott of Google News.

    It also fixes another problem that big Spanish newspapers had: on Google News, you could just as easily find small, independent news sites that were critical of the current (conservative) government, as the sites of the major newspapers (which are mostly supportive of the government). Outside Google News, the small press is a lot harder to find. This law removes competition for the big guys as well as criticism about the government. Win-win for big corps and the government. Lose for the people and the small independent press.

    Also:

    This follows news of services of startup Uber being forbidden in countries like Spain as well as Germany and some city councils worldwide like Delhi, or other services like AirBnb being put under pressure to cope with local laws in other jurisdictions.

    This issue has nothing to do with Uber and Airbnb not complying with local laws. There is nothing wrong with foreign companies having to obey local laws in they want to operate there. This, however, is a new law that will hurt the small Spanish press (Google won't be hurt that much, since they don't make money on Google News anyway).

    By the way complaints against Uber and Airbnb (which should have been irrelevant to this story but now aren't because of the stupid summary) are not that unreasonable; they're side-stepping consumer-protection regulations that exist for good reasons. In some places they're also side-stepping monopolies or cartels, which is great of course, but some of the laws they're running afoul of are actually good laws.

    As a final word, Uber are by now well known to be a bunch of thugs who need to go out of business as soon as possible.

  • Is Franco still dead?

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