North Korean Internet Is Down 360
First time accepted submitter opentunings writes "Engadget and many others are reporting that North Korea's external Internet access is down. No information yet regrading whether anyone's taking responsibility. From the NYT: "Doug Madory, the director of Internet analysis at Dyn Research, an Internet performance management company, said that North Korean Internet access first became unstable late Friday. The situation worsened over the weekend, and by Monday, North Korea’s Internet was completely offline. 'Their networks are under duress,' Mr. Madory said. 'This is consistent with a DDoS attack on their routers,' he said, referring to a distributed denial of service attack, in which attackers flood a network with traffic until it collapses under the load."
Who will get (Score:2)
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More like they did it to themselves so they can use the world press to claim the big bad U.S. is picking on little ol' N. Korea and its sawed off runt of a leader.
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Funny)
The blame?
The guy who tripped over the modem's power cord? There can't be that much blame to go around when a network that size drops dead.
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Re:Who will get (Score:5, Funny)
The blame?
I imagine Bush.
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The blame?
Clearly they have upset the G.O.P.
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It could be Sony itself. Sony has already admitted to doing Denial of Services Attacks [recode.net] against its enemies, whether those enemies are located in the United States, Europe, Russia, or anywhere else in the World.
Sony really doesn't care about collateral damage, nor national boundaries.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Funny)
Fallout 2 or Fallout 3? This will make a very big difference in who will get angry.
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New Vegas, plainly.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Insightful)
China wouldn't need to DDoS North Korea's internet link
They do, if they want to have plausible deniability.
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Re:Who will get (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't catch any stories like that. Why is China mad at them this time?
You've got it backwards. China has stated that they think the US Government's claim that NK was behind the Sony hack is bogus and lacking in facts. Since NK's internet routes through China, then the implied source (the US Government, probably the NSA) is going through Chinese servers to whack NK's internet, which will piss them off. Personally I doubt it's the US, I bet it's some hacker group like an Anonymous faction, but everyone will think it's the US.
China hates North Korea as much as everyone else. They support them because they're a convenient tool for Chinese diplomacy with the US; every so often the DPRK goes nuts and threatens to blow up South Korea, and the US gets all riled up because we've never officially stopped being at war with them (just a 60 year cease fire). Then China gets to step in and provide the peaceful solution and portrays Washington as a bunch of warmongering fools bullying smaller nations. This is just another iteration of the same tired old game going on the Northeast Pacific.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Insightful)
Case in point, the troops there call themselves "speed bumps." They know their job in case of a N. Korean attack is to get overrun and die, so the U.S. populace will get all outraged and back a full reprisal in S. Korea's defense.
And to answer OP, the idea is that the outcome of a war between N. Korea and S. Korea has enough uncertainty that some loony of a N. Korean leader may actually try it. But the outcome of a war between N. Korea and the U.S. is so obvious that no N. Korean leader would try it. (Well, no sane N. Korean leader. I'm starting to have my doubts about how much sanity is left after 60 years of indoctrination about how "N. Korea drove the U.S. out" of half the peninsula.) If you talk with S. Koreans, most of them don't exactly like U.S. troops being there, but are willing to tolerate it for this tangible deterrence factor.
But couldn't the UN do something? When the original 1950 "police action" in Korea was authorized by the UN security council, China's vote was controlled by Taiwan, and the Soviet Union happened to be boycotting the UN to try to get that vote transferred to mainland China. Let's just say that if a similar situation should arise, there's considerable uncertainty about getting anything more than a strongly worded statement from the UN.
29,500 bodies is not tiny (Score:3)
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The US 1st Division OOB has two infantry and one artillery brigade. Each infantry brigade consists of two infantry regiments, each consisting of two battalions of infantry, and a machine gun battalion totaling eight infantry battalions and two machine gun battalions. The artillery brigade consists of three artillery regiments. Two of those have two artillery battalions and one has three battalions. The artillery brigade also has a mortar battalion. The total combat troops of the division is thus eight infan
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of the guards on the North side looked bored and didn't care particularly what you did. In contrast, the guards on the South side look like they will kill you for looking in the wrong direction.
I think that might more accurately illustrate which side suspects the other might try to invade.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Interesting)
It kind of begs the question about what the US is still doing in South Korea anyhow. South Korea is a rich country. They can afford their own defense, but its convenient for them for Uncle Sam to pick up the tab. I have stood on the North side of the DMZ and it is clear that the US is just a thorn in the situation making everybody tense. There is no doubt that the South Koreans can adequately defend themselves against any potential "invasion" from the North. There is no reason for the US to be there. The constant presence of US marines on the DMZ make the North Koreans nervous that the South will invade them.
One of the running half-jokes amongst the US troops and marines in South Korea is their primary purpose is to keep the South Korean army in the south, not the other way around. The US influence keeps the south somewhat calm, and acts as a deterrent to the north.
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Interesting)
So is Germany, and the US has 39,000 troops there. So is Japan, and the US has 50,000 troops there. Hell, there are 11,000 US troops in Italy.
So there are 29,000 US troops in South Korea, which unlike those countries named above has a border with a fully militarized raving psychotic insane evil totalitarian state who viciously threatens South Korea constantly. The capital of South Korea, with a population of 10 million, lies only 50 km from the border and could be overrun and decimated within hours, regardless of whether or not the psychotics ultimately win the conflict.
Is any of this difficult to understand?
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South Korea is a rich country. They can afford their own defense, but its convenient for them for Uncle Sam to pick up the tab. I have stood on the North side of the DMZ and it is clear that the US is just a thorn in the situation making everybody tense.
Part of the point is that North Korea can't "invade" South Korea, but could destroy it. The US is there to enforce MAD. If NK attacks SK, SK will lose, but so will NK. That is the point. It's like a nuclear deterrent.
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It kind of begs the question about what the US is still doing in South Korea anyhow. South Korea is a rich country. They can afford their own defense, but its convenient for them for Uncle Sam to pick up the tab. I have stood on the North side of the DMZ and it is clear that the US is just a thorn in the situation making everybody tense. There is no doubt that the South Koreans can adequately defend themselves against any potential "invasion" from the North. There is no reason for the US to be there. The constant presence of US marines on the DMZ make the North Koreans nervous that the South will invade them.
Alright troll, you sucked me in.
1. You've been on the North side of the DMZ looking south, and from your vantage point three feet from the border in peace village...it was clear to you that the US is a thorn in the situation? SERIOUSLY?!? You deduced all that at a glance?
2. I'm going to presume you've never been to North Korea, and educate you about a few things.
a.) First and Foremost, that's the U.S Army at the DMZ, not the Marines. Specifically, the 8th Army. Th
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Sony is worth more than NK though, so not really.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Insightful)
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Not to mention a computer to access it with, or electricity to power the computer.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Insightful)
He acts as if the common North Korean citizen is permitted knowledge of the internet, instead of just advanced CS students who have proven themselves indoctrinated sufficiently.
It's so easy to underestimate what such a government can do with such an ancient moral code and modern access to propaganda. The North Korean people aren't like "put yourself in their position". They have been systematically denied knowledge and education that would permit them to ask "Why don't we have the freedom to access the internet". They don't understand "freedom", they don't know that there is an "internet", and in many cases their definition of "we" will be substantially alien as well. Education is huge, and they have plenty over there- just of the wrong kind.
Protip: The North Korean media reports on US troops attacking North Korean soil and being repelled. The overwhelming majority of North Koreans believe that not only is the US at war with North Korea, but that North Korea is winning a defensive war lasting decades. That's the literal truth. That's how successful the Juche zealots have been. Internet access? Goodness, lol.
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Informative)
"Care to point to the source"
Haha is this wikipedia? I'm telling you things you can google, not applying for a job as your bitch.
You know that statement about extraordinary claims needing extraordinary proof?
Well, ordinary claims just need you to use a search engine, or even just start on wikipedia. You don't get to play skeptic with life, assuming that before you change your precious worldview something has to be tied up and cited. You have the power to google it your goddamned self.
But, fuck it. I'm on vacation.
You can find a TON of first hand accounts of crazy fucking bullshit in North Korea. Here's some who talk on social media after having been there as a tourist:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c... [reddit.com]
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c... [reddit.com]
Here's one on social media who mentions having taught there, and brings up the "repelled incursions" I referred to, in addition to crazier shit involving netting on cars:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c... [reddit.com]
Also you can find firsthand accounts all over, not only from social media: ..but from other media as well
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c... [reddit.com]
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c... [reddit.com]
http://www.cracked.com/article... [cracked.com]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
http://www.dailylife.com.au/li... [dailylife.com.au]
Essentially ALL of these mention that the internet is pretty well shut down and only the North Korean fake version is available- in Pyongyang. You know, their BIG CITY.
Here's a wikipedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I... [wikipedia.org]
Some quotes:
"As of late 2014 there are 1,024 IP addresses in the country."
"Despite the incident, many citizens of North Korea may be oblivious to the existence of the internet."
http://qz.com/315969/in-north-... [qz.com]
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/2... [cnn.com]
"Nearly all of the country's Internet traffic is routed through China. Firms that monitor that traffic say it is comparable to only about 1,000 high-speed homes in the United States."
I'd like to repeat my earlier point, however:
You don't need to source a claim to be correct. The world isn't wikipedia.
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Ok, all of what? 2 people are offline now?
The two that matter, yes.
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Maybe your clues are wrong.
North Korea faces famine: 'Tell the world we are starving' [telegraph.co.uk]
More than a decade after North Korea was struck by a famine that killed up to a million people, the country's poorest are once again facing starvation, reports Peter Foster in Yanji
Pyongyang’s Hunger Games [nytimes.com]
... during the great famine of the 1990s, between 600,000 and 2.5 million people died of hunger. According to the commission’s report, the North Korean regime, then headed by Kim Jong-il, obstructed the delivery of aid to the hungriest regions until 1997, and punished those who tried to earn, buy, steal or smuggle in enough food to survive. The regime was “well aware of the country’s deteriorating food situation” as it stocked airfields, reactors and palaces, rather than food stores.
According to one expert witness testimonial before the commission, the North Korean regime, at the height of the famine, could have closed its food gap by importing between $100 and $200 million worth of food each year, which is just 1 to 2 percent of its national income. Yet rather than using foreign food aid to supplement its own commercial food imports, the commission found that Kim Jong-il used aid “as a substitute for” them, cutting back on commercial food imports when more aid arrived. By contrast, the State Department estimates that in 1997, at the peak of the famine, North Korea’s annual military budget was $6 billion.
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Sony is bigger than many countries.
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IF they are the perpetrators of the hack (seeing as they're claiming they were framed) and IF the U.S. is responsible for this attack (I seem to recall Anonymous threatening to do just such a thing just yesterday, right?) then the level of retribution is not to balance out the corporate hack but rather the threats made toward civilian targets if the movie were to be released.
The hammer of US reaction to any threats of terrorism predictably treats everything as a nail.
That being said I'm pretty at least one
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This is a good point. Us is more likely to send a predator than anything
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Well, yeah, the NorKs claim, "We didn't do it!"
But they're also saying, "If you don't do what we want, we'll do it again!"
So....
Wait, where's the source for that second quote? DPRK's claim is "We didn't do it." Guardians of Peace's claim is "If you don't do what we want, we'll do it again!" I haven't heard an admission from the north that they are GOP, or a duplication of the rhetoric that GOP said.
Even Bin Laden is on camera admitting to 9/11. NK hasn't gotten that far yet.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Informative)
No, they're not. Sony's annual revenue is $64.7 billion USD. North Korea's GDP is $12.4 billion USD. Sony's market capitalization is also larger than North Korea's entire economy. The drop in Sony's stock value after the hack was roughly a quarter of North Korea's GDP, although the stock has since recovered somewhat.
Sony is far larger than North Korea, economically.
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Companies should be free to hire cyber mercenaries to decimate their attackers. Maybe that's what's going on here? Or maybe they're getting a little US Mil support.
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decimate their attackers.
And what about the other 90%?
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They are the ones beating the other 10% to death. Duh.
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What part of "annual revenue" did you not understand?
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Interesting)
The U.S. by the look of things. I think it'd be a bit heavy-handed to call it a proportional response though as Sony is a lot smaller than a country.
Physically perhaps but in terms of internet presence I would doubt it. As a non-American I'd think this was an entirely appropriate response if it were the US. It has the beauty of being non-violent, extremely humiliating and very effective at preventing them from engaging in further cyberattacks. This should send such a clear message that hopefully even their insane government can understand it. Indeed if anything it seems so well thought out and proportionate that it seems unlikely to be the US government given their previous record.
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Interesting)
and very effective at preventing them from engaging in further cyberattacks.
Probably not so much. It's long been suspected that much of North Korea's cyberwarfare activity is actually based out of China, which is why the U.S. asked China for help shutting them down. I'm going to guess that this is because it's hard to get sufficient bandwidth to operate a cyberwarfare division in North Korea, and because North Korea's limited connectivity makes it too easy to shut down and isolate a team based in North Korea in precisely the scenario we are seeing here.
And North Korea can't be doing this without China's cooperation. China has one of the world's most advanced cyberwarfare capabilities, up there with other cyber-superpowers like U.S., Russia, and Israel, and they closely monitor their internet. If North Korean agents are using China as a staging ground to attack South Korea and the United States, China knows about it and is turning a blind eye.
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I wouldn't say that it is "a lot smaller than a country"
At time of writing:
$40B - North Korean GDP 2014
$7,770B - Sony Gross Sales/Revenue 2014
$2,280B - Sony Gross Income 2014
By dollars, Sony is roughly 200 times the size of North Korea.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, figure corrections (I got my info from http://www.marketwatch.com/inv... [marketwatch.com], which lists figures in yen):
$4,799B - North Korean GDP 2014
$7,770B - Sony Gross Sales/Revenue 2014
$2,280B - Sony Gross Income 2014
Sony is only really worth 1.6 North Koreas.
Re: Who will get (Score:5, Funny)
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Fuzzy foreigners are confused regarding . vs ,
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Not that I don't think the US govt. is abusive enough to do this on no evidence, but why not suspect Sony? They're also abusive enough, and have shown willingness to attack innocent parties without even pertended evidence. (Not that N.Korea is innocent of much, but I've heard of no convincing evidence that they are actually behind this.)
OTOH, it could be a third (unmentioned) group playing "Lets you and him fight.".
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I doubt the Japanese government would let a Japanese company do anything to N. Korea. As far as I can tell, the Japanese government is still hiding behind the skirts of the U.S. The PM would like to have more muscular military, but even if they had one, they will be wary of doing anything the Chinese could take objection to unless it is defending their islets in the S. China Sea.
Re:Who will get (Score:4, Interesting)
The US won't defend Americans in the USA (how many unarmed black men were killed by cops this year? How many black men were lynched this year?), but will happily start a war to defend the Right of Japan to make profit in the USA.
Actually, the police kill more white people then black people.
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http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21636033-united-states-needs-overhaul-its-law-enforcement-system-americas-police-trial:
"Roughly 29% of Americans shot by the police are black, but so are about 42% of cop killers whose race is known."
So, considering the black population is ~15%, then cops shoot blacks at about 2x their representation.
Then again, blacks kill cops at nearly 3x their representation.
Sounds like the cops need to work harder, they should be killing at least 15% more black young men to represe
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That and when a cop is shot, the suspect is always black, until proven otherwise. Also, with only 46 cops shot dead, your numbers work out to 133 Black people killed by cops, and 19 cops killed by black people. So black people need to kill another 115 cops to cover the difference.
Re:Who will get (Score:5, Interesting)
Absolutely correct. Blacks are statistically several times more likely to be shot by police than are whites. Concerning ages 15-19, the ratio is about 20 times more likely. But what you conveniently overlook is that blacks are FAR more likely to be murdered by other blacks than by police (many of which are themselves black). We are talking many scores of times more likely.
Could it just POSSIBLY be that blacks are far more likely than whites to be engaged in street activities that are begging to attract police attention? And that, once confronted, just maybe they might be far more threatening - as in, likely to whip out a handgun or rush the officer?
Hey, it's just a question, though I strongly suspect what the answer is. And yes, it leads directly to other questions about disadvantaged groups and vicious circles of crime and despair.
One of the most impressive dramas I ever saw dealing with blacks, antagonism between blacks and cops, and disillusionment of black cops was an episode of Dragnet from 1968 or 1969 showing the situation after the assassination of the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. It showed the raw hurt and grievances, but also it ended on a positive and uplifting note that mirrors my own hopes. On the other hand, every single one of the issues presented remains absolutely topical to this day. You take the afros and 60s cars out of that episode and it could have been made yesterday.
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... Dragnet from 1968 or 1969 showing the situation after the assassination of the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. ... You take the afros and 60s cars out of that episode and it could have been made yesterday.
Except Michael Brown was no Martin Luther King. King would have been appalled by the circumstances into which Brown's family launched him through neglect of his character. King would have been disgusted by Brown, who spend the morning smoking dope, robbing a convenience store to get more supplies, and then assaulting a cop. King would likewise have been disgusted by people chanting in the streets about things that didn't happen, outraged by their willingness to destroy people's property and burn down thei
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You make many presumptions:
1) That we did it
2) That, having done it, we did it for Japan
3) That, having done it for Japan, it constitutes war.
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Surely more blacks are killed by other blacks than both groups mentioned combined but let's not let facts get in the way of your racist dogma.
This is getting scary (Score:2)
Re:This is getting scary (Score:5, Funny)
It would be fairly amusing if the next world war was started over a film of dubious quality.
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North Korea has Internet? (Score:2)
Re:North Korea has Internet? (Score:4)
Well, it is an Intranet now...
Obama promised a "proportional response"... (Score:2, Interesting)
Why bother with a Denial of Service attack? (Score:2)
When you're a state actor, why not just cut the lines physically connecting a nation to the rest of the world?
Countries such as China or the United States have the ability to do that, if they so choose.
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In this case because China provides N.Korea's internet connection, and it would be a bad mistake to get them mad.
DDOS or.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:DDOS or.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Slightly. At most. North Korea's ability to project power barely extends beyond the DMZ. They could ruin Seoul, maybe...
Note that there's no indication that whatever the NK's have for a "nuclear arsenel" is air-portable, nor is there much indication that they could get a plane to Japan....
Send them the "You are an idiot" YouTube video (Score:2)
South Korean Reactors (Score:3)
If the US an Ally, South Korea perhaps, are responsible this is more likely to be a result of the North started targeting Nuclear reactors in the South yesterday, than anything to do with Sony.
The irony here, is that it that it looks like hacktivists were responsible for the initial Sony attacks, not the DPRK.
obliq old school (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Tit for tat (Score:3)
They keep us from watching a movie nobody wanted to see, and we cut off Kim Jung's pr0n.
What does that big reg button do? (Score:2)
First words out of Little Kim's mouth when he visited the site that connects to the real world.
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Should read 'big red button'... Sigh, one of these days I will learn to spell.
Cue the Apocalyptic Rants and Missile Tests! (Score:3)
Vigilantes? (Score:2)
Seems the the State Department could just get various friendlies to start announcing DPRKs prefixes from all over the places in BGP and pretty much nullify their ability to use the Internet.
Also given the attack did not originate from DPRK but is simply suspected sponsored by DPRK, this does not seem like it would be an effective response.
oops! (Score:2)
It's so hard to keep those C64s running these days!
And (Score:4, Funny)
...in other news, kim jong un now reportedly threatening verizon customer services with ground attack after being on hold for 90 minutes...
Lizard Squad? (Score:5, Interesting)
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With the number of FBI informants in Lizard Squad these likelyhoods are not mutually exclusive.
N. Korea's Own Bad Ways Made This Possible (Score:5, Informative)
Dictatorships that control their subjects' access to information like to have all Internet connections in their country pass through a single choke point so that they can maintain control. I once visited Saudi Arabia and met the guy responsible for all Internet traffic in and out of the country -- through a single link with a single backup.
This is good if you want to give your people only the access you want them to have, and to block everything else. At the same time, it means your whole country can be knocked offline by a single attack, which seems to be the problem N. Korea is experiencing. Imagine trying to knock the entire U.S. offline! It couldn't be done.
Cuba, OTOH.... well, that one may change soon. But N. Korea? Probably not, although I wish it would. A far more miserable place than Cuba has ever been.
Customer support (Score:5, Funny)
Did they try turning North Korea off and then back on again?
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Obviously not... see if you can spot NK on the map [newscientist.com]
Interesting.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Likely a DDOS from Anonymous....
It would be interesting if the DPRK *IS* responsible for the Sony hack.... now.... Sony is twice as big as the DPRK from a financial standpoint. Can Sony hire a bunch of mercenaries to retaliate or nuke the DPRK and call it self defense? If corporations are people and people have a right to defend themselves with weapons if necessary..... is a corporate army in the US legal?
Where can I sign up? (Score:5, Funny)
I have quite a bit of extra unused CPU time. Where do I sign up to donate to such a DOS strategy?
With me its not political. I just can't stand the haircut, so I'd like to vote no.
Friendship by Ray Charles (Score:5, Funny)
By sheer coincidence, Best Korea's IT chief just got a shiny CD in the post of Ray Charles' Friendship album and played it just prior to the internet going down.
Are they still down? (Score:5, Insightful)
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All the more reason to let robots/A.I. handle government.
Re:Like little children (Score:4)
You start with this
Why am I reminded of petulant children squabbling over who gets to pat the new puppy?
and then start complaining about not getting jetpacks, flying cars and a holiday trip on the moon all lined up for Christmas
Re:Like little children (Score:4, Insightful)
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At some point, all words are made up. Irregardless is a perfectly cromulent word.
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Not such a bad idea... just look at what Lee Kwan Yew did for Singapore -- turned it from a backwards island state into one of the world's most sophisticated, modern countries with low tax rates and enviable prosperity.
Benevolent dictators are sometimes a whole lot better than corrupt (faux) democracies controlled by the movie and defense industries behind the scenes... don't you think?
Who gives a damn if you get caned for chewing gum anyway :-)
Like little children (Score:2)
What's that old saying? War is politics by other means.
I completely agree with you.. we could better spend resources on more important things and yet, the world we live in leads us to this. Too bad the entire world couldn't pull its collective head out of its butt and realize that we're all pretty much the same, and want the same things from life - no matter where you're from.
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"Imagine how much closer we (as a race) would be if we could eliminate all the stupid waste..."
You don't think that turning off the internet to N Korea was (somebody's idea of) a good first step?
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Re:Internet ? (Score:5, Funny)
Someone picked up the phone, that's all.
Re:Thank god for editors! (Score:5, Funny)