The NFL Wants You To Think These Things Are Illegal 227
An anonymous reader writes: Professional sports have become a minefield of copyright and trademark issues, and no event moreso than the Super Bowl. Sherwin Siy of Public Knowledge has an article debunking some of the things the NFL has convinced people they can't do, even through they're perfectly legal. For example, you've probably heard the warning about how "descriptions" and "accounts" of the game are prohibited without the NFL's consent. That's all hogwash: "The NFL would be laughed out of court for trying to prevent them from doing so—just because you have a copyright in a work doesn't mean you can prevent people from talking about it. Copyright simply doesn't extend that far." Recording the game and watching it later is just fine, too.
So, will you be paying attention to the game today? Ignoring it? Practicing your cultivated disinterest?
So, will you be paying attention to the game today? Ignoring it? Practicing your cultivated disinterest?
Hyperbole Sunday (Score:2, Insightful)
NFL got a guru --- the MAFIAA (Score:3, Insightful)
Whatever NFL is doing sounds very much like MAFIAA has been doing to everybody for the past 2 decades or so --- one FUD after another
Tha MAFIAA violates the law more times than anyone can count - including demanding people's totally legitimate videos to be pulled down from youtube, mailing threatening letters to innocent party who never commit any music / video pirating, filing DCMA on legitimate contents online, and so on
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Sports are actually very exciting to watch, as well as participate in. You should try it sometime.
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you know what'd make reality tv fun? Danger. I mean, real danger. When Big Brother does a live eviction, let's have the eviction into a pool of acid. When someone gets kicked out of the camp in I'm A Celebrity, feed the entitled little shit to some crocodiles. "Survivor"? Don't make me laugh. Until the penalty for failure is REAL bodily harm or death, fuck that soft shit right off.
(they had the idea in The Running Man. "Climbing For Dollars"! That's the ticket! No pain, no gain! (to borrow from Captain Free
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You know where we already have real danger on TV? Sports! Football especially, where all those players are regularly inflicting chronic brain damage on themselves with every head-first impact, in addition to the occasional broken bones and other traumatic injuries that take them off the field. And of course if you like your violence a little more visceral there's always mixed martial arts. It's actually strangely intriguing, even to a sports-indifferent pacifist like me. No maze of rules to obey to creat
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Football especially, where all those players are regularly inflicting chronic brain damage on themselves with every head-first impact, in addition to the occasional broken bones and other traumatic injuries that take them off the field
So I guess those stories of going to a football game and seeing a hockey match break out are true :-)
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Yeah... silly me considering avoiding such things to fall under the umbrella of "good sportsmanship"
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TV these days is pretty bad. I can't remember the last time a show caught my interest.
I can: Firefly was excellent.
Actually, there's a few more that are more recent that I've found interesting as well:
- (Star Trek) Enterprise: this was surprisingly good (I only watched it last year, after it was already 10 years old), except for the 3rd season Xindi plot arc which I found rather annoying. The first two seasons were very good though.
- Big Bang Theory: I've only watched the first two seasons so far, but it's
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1) American Pickers (I know Netflix has it, but we've seen all of those and it's our relax-without-thinking show that we look forward to sitting down together each week once the kids are asleep)
2) Walking Dead (Ditto Netflix, although I don't know how current they are. That said, I'm increasingly becoming decreasingly interested in the show)
3) It costs $10 more to get Internet access without also getting cable.
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The problem with watching these things on cable is that you then have to watch commercials.
A better solution is to just download them on BitTorrent.
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...or even Amazon. Conventional TV is about the worst way to consume video. For things other than sports, it really isn't necessary anymore.
Although Sports would benefit even MORE from a Netflix+iTunes approach to distribution.
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I won't be ignoring it, I'll be doing things that I want to do. Same as just about everything else that I'm not observing or doing while doing what I want to do.
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Well, it doesn't involve graphs, but I believe you're looking for what's commonly known as "the highlight reel" Hell, if you simply had a system that would analyze the legally recorded game on your Tivo/VCR/etc and bookmark all the instant replays that would probably get you most of the good stuff.
Personally I think there could also be a huge market for VR sportscasting - something where *you* could control where you're looking, as though you were actually sitting in the stands. rather than just riding alo
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
really.. this is on slashdot? (Score:3, Informative)
how desperate for a story has /. become
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True that, they should should ask some footballers like Ha Ha Clinton Dix and Swordless Mimetown what they think about the NFL's actions and how it affects the perception of the game.
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how desperate for a story has /. become
Well, maybe the explanation is here: "Brain Injuries and the NFL" http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-th... [nbcnews.com]
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isn't there a rule or something about the minimum inflation pressure of a ball in play?
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asked then answered: 12.5-13.5psi but there is currently no requirement to check or log pressure before, during or after the game. Follow up question: if there is no requirement to check the pressure, how would one know if a ball is within the rules?
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They are checked before the game. However, after they are checked, they are returned to the team until the game.
"Not illegal" is not the same as "you can do this" (Score:4, Interesting)
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> Unfortunately, there's really nothing in the DMCA to provide for fines or other deterrents to such behavior
Yes, there is... doing so is felony.
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Re: "Not illegal" is not the same as "you can do t (Score:3)
The DMCA claim itself is the citation, the whole mandatory "under the penalty of perjury" part of it, you know.
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Completely wrong. The only thing that is under penalty of perjury in the DC is the statement that you are authorized to act on behalf of the copyright holder.
Re:"Not illegal" is not the same as "you can do th (Score:5, Funny)
This is because the NFL is not an ordinary business. It is a cartel of independent teams. Such cartels, for example OPEC, are illigal in the US since 1890 but is allowed through special acts of congress. This allows it to set rules for all teams, set TV contracts, and set pay scales without any competition.
This leads to the ability to generate profits only available to socialist organizations. For instance, excessively high payment from TV networks require excessively high fees to cable providers which are paid by all cable subscribers, even if they never watch the channel. The cartel is also able to leverage national monies to convince localities to force taxpayer to fund stadiums, even if those that are never going to use the stadiums. These monies then go into individual pockets as profits.
I have heard people saying the same about music halls, but there is certainly no national cartel of music lovers that bribe local officials, that transfers the risk of the building from a for profit organization the taxpayer.
There are other costs to society. Because the rules are set, public tax dollars can be used to train kids for the NFL through public school funds. Because salaries are set, the players, though well paid, do not have the ability to truly negotiate a contract. Recall that tech firms have gotten in trouble for this, even though the employees were generally well paid.
And of course there is a fundamental loss to a society that depends on the free market that kids are taught about fair play and rules within a socialist construct where there is in fact a rule book and powerful referees. While this is useful for a 10 year old, it is disastrous when an adult goes into a work place believing her or his life is really going to be controlled by a rule book. It kills innovation and creativity. At leas in baseball you can steal a base. The immaturity of football can be characterized by the fact that everyone got their panties in bunch over deflate gate. In the real free market world that would just be considered a necessary cost of doing business.
Which is to say that the NFL basically lives within it's own bubble. It has the ability to bribe congress, or throw enough lawyers at the problem, to bend the rules no matter what previous legislation or case law says.
And I don't think the NFL is a natural cartel, like the electric company. I think real competition, not the fake thing taught to kids by the NFL structure and games, is good. I don't think sports fans are nearly as dumb as the average sports cartel thinks they are. The current structure is merely a way to maximize profit at taxpayer expense, and to create a world where fundamental rights are infringed for the sake of the bottom line or a corporation.
You're overselling your claim (Score:2)
For instance, excessively high payment from TV networks require excessively high fees to cable providers which are paid by all cable subscribers, even if they never watch the channel.
You don't need to subscribe to cable. Plenty of folks don't, and more seem to be cutting the cord every day. I haven't subscribed to cable television since the 1990s.
The cartel is also able to leverage national monies to convince localities to force taxpayer to fund stadiums, even if those that are never going to use the sta
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This leads to the ability to generate profits only available to socialist organizations. For instance, excessively high payment from TV networks require excessively high fees to cable providers which are paid by all cable subscribers, even if they never watch the channel.
Every NFL game is broadcast on free, over the air TV in the media market of its home and visiting teams. There's two packages, each with 15 games over the course of the season, which have "national" games broadcast on cable. ESPN has Monday Night Football, and NFL Network has Thursday Night Football. Almost all TNF games will be simulcast on CBS (which is broadcast OTA) nationally next year. The other games are all on CBS, NBC, or Fox, which are not sports channels. While sports channels demanding higher ca
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This is merely one symptom of the bigger problem of our growing plutocracy. The rich get richer by using their size and power to tilt the laws and rulings their way in order to grow even richer such that they can use their size and power to tilt the laws and rulings their way in order to grow even richer such that they can use their size and power to tilt the
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the point is they don't evne have to get as far as the finding stage, all they have to do is drown you in enough paperwork to kill you in lawyers fees. Ever see a legal team leave a sinking ship? Faster than a rat up a drainpipe, they are. Fuck the merits of the case at that point, they've broken you and to them that is all that matters: they've made an example of you and probably haven't even met the judge yet.
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How would they bankrupt a person who they haven't got any successful ruling against yet? To get a successful ruling, they would still need to convince a judge that events from history, or mere facts, could actually ever be considered a form of intellectual property. They cannot be.... and this point is even explicitly stated in copyright law.
They are, of course, perfectly welcome to claim that they will prohibit it all they want to... the fact of the matter is, however, that they have precisely zero ab
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ask that again when you've been lawyered to death. They will bleed you dry and you won't even have a judgement to show for it.
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hell, don't be too shocked if your own legal team files the petition against you - it's been known to happen:
http://www.yorkshireridingsmag... [yorkshirer...gazine.com]
Even solicitors can be declared bankrupt without judgement:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/36... [pcpro.co.uk]
(not that that stops them from practising):
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/busi... [nzherald.co.nz]
They probably went to the Donald Trump School of Hiding Wealth:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cl... [forbes.com]
(which was kinda handy for Ivana, who took half his assets - and none of the joint liabilities - in the di
Is it illegal (Score:3, Insightful)
to not give a fsck about the superbole in particular of even (american) football in general
?
Re:Is it illegal (Score:5, Funny)
This is apparently a result of your conscious efforts to distance yourself from the lower classes, and you could become a better person (read: someone who can find common ground with disgusting sports fans) by no longer denying yourself the enjoyment of men+balls, or if necessary forcing yourself to become interested. I feel terrible about my lack of appreciation for the tastes of the common man, I really must take up smoking, dog fighting, reality television consumption(actually, i'm quite tempted by the idea of a dozen or so contestants infested with TB, stranded and left to survive on a remote island, or maybe the US without medical insurance) and indiscriminate breeding right away.
It works both ways (Score:2, Interesting)
Where the article claims that intellectuals compete over their ignorance of sports, non-intellectuals compete over their ignorance of math or other subjects as well. Some people in any cultural subgroup will do things like this as a means of establishing their cultural identity. It's not that big of a deal.
Why is it important to me that I should be able to instantly bond with members of the "working class?" (I work, everyone I know works, what the article means is "lower class"). In my personal experien
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If I am to force myself to become interested in something that I naturally find boring, I am going to need better incentive than "but you can make friends with people you don't normally want to be friends with!"
obligatory xkcd [xkcd.com].
Re:Is it illegal (Score:4, Funny)
By 'superbole', I'm guessing you mean Superbowl hyperbole?
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Yeah, fuck the Super Bowl, wake me when the Hyper Bowl is on!
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Yeah, fuck the Super Bowl, wake me when the Hyper Bowl is on!
Make sure to wear your hyper-visor during the game!
(ok, that wasn't as funny as I'd hoped before i wrote it)
Tradition of ruination (Score:3, Insightful)
I will be practicing the modern tradition of ruining any chance of enjoying the game by attending a SuperBowl party. Ostensibly a gathering to watch a championship sporting event, the SuperBowl party actually results in a gathering of families where the game is on a television that happens to be in the same location. Every now and then someone will exclaim and attention will divert to a big play that just happened, but for the most part the wives' small talk and rounding up the kids will occupy the fathers attention. Except when the commercials come on. For some reason the wives are really interested in the commercials, so they'll stop everything and have everyone be quiet for at least some of the commercials.
At least there will be lots of finger food and drinks.
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I will be practicing the modern tradition of ruining any chance of enjoying the game by attending a SuperBowl party. Ostensibly a gathering to watch a championship sporting event, the SuperBowl party actually results in a gathering of families where the game is on a television that happens to be in the same location.
Why, though? If you enjoy watching football on television, there's 20 weekends out of the year featuring non-Superbowl and non-preseason NFL football. (Plus Monday Night and Thursday Night football.) You should use those 20 weeks to develop a cadre of like minded football fans who ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE GAME. There's enough time to weed out people who don't actually watch football. Plus, if the people you invite don't like watching football, they probably won't devote their Sunday to watching three footbal
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All true. But what one should do and what one does to maintain a happy marriage are not always the same thing.
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yeah, that just gets in the way of all the gay sex!
Accounts (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. The NFL says the BROADCAST descriptions and accounts are copyrighted. Plenty of other places have their own accounts and descriptions.
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And my mod points just expired. sigh.
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Wrong. The NFL says the BROADCAST descriptions and accounts are copyrighted. Plenty of other places have their own accounts and descriptions.
Well, that's one way to spin it. But the actual words do not explicitly say that and do misleadingly say that any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent is prohibited. However, they cannot copyright the actual game, only their recording of it (written or videoed); though getting into the stadium probably requires you to buy a ticket prohibiting you from making your own recording.
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While it is true this is what they say, it doesn't make it illegal. Think about it for a second. They are basically saying that without their express permissions, Jimmy Kimmel can't say "Did you see the game yesterday? Can you believe the final touchdown play where Joe Blow ran past 6 defenders to score?" That would be a broadcast of a description of the game. Just because you are broadcasting your retelling of the game doesn't make it any different. The NFL can't stop you from describing what you watched.
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No, that is not what it means at all. The accounts, descriptions, and images that they are talking about are the ones from their telecast, not accounts and descriptions you create.
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There is no need to state that though, that is already covered by existing law (minus fair use exemptions). And even if that is what they meant, no where does it say the NFL's accounts and description. It simple says accounts and descriptions.
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The whole descriptions and accounts thing starts with 'this telecast is copyright by the nfl...'
The first rule of Puppy Bowl (Score:2)
The author of the article is confused (Score:5, Informative)
When NFL says "Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game"
They are not referring to you talking to your friends about the game or even you authoring an original description and publishing it.
They are essentially saying any descriptions or accounts given in the telecast or personal accounts written by staff under contract to create them are protected, which they are.
You are not allowed to copy a description or account from the telecast and reuse their description or account beyond what fair use allows, as it is subject to copyright just like the images, video, and live audio.
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Of course. That is why the NFL is being intentionally misleading when they refer to "Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game." They use the phrase "any other use," not "any other use except as permitted as fair use under copyright law." A rational person, not acquainted with the ins and outs of copyright law, would assume t
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When you are hanging "No Tresspassing" signs on your private property, or a "KEEP OUT" sign, do you also include in big print the exception "EXCEPT AS PERMITTED BY LAW" ?
The NFL totally has a right to inform you of the copyrighted nature of the content and their policies (if any) about what use of the work they are inviting, such as 'All Rights Reserved'.
They also need to keep the spoken language at a 1st grade reading level, so their audience will understand it: "Except as permitted as fair use"
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If you are going to claim to 'know the law' then you should know the law. Particularly this sentence:
A work consisting of sounds, images, or both, that are being transmitted, is “fixed” for purposes of this title if a fixation of the work is being made simultaneously with its transmission.
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The NFL's disclaimer doesn't prevent you from talking about a game you attended because the actual performance of the players, coaches, etc. are not copyrightable, because they are not being done so they can be put in a fixed recorded form by the team*.
*Unless you're playing against the Patriots.
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I am not sure why you responded to me with that. I agree with everything you said. I was just responding to the dope who said it could not be copyrighted because it was not in fixed form. It is considered in fixed form because it is being simultaneously recorded by the NFL/network.
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So you're trying to claim that they don't have a recording of exactly what went out over the air, and that every time they rerun it they are recreating the broadcast? Good one!
It's not what they say (Score:2)
its the Legion of Lawyers (TM) that stand ready to crush anyone that does something they don't like. Getting hit by their lawyers makes taking a hit in the game feel like you're playing a sandlot game of touch.
They're also protecting the revenue they get from official sponsors. If everyone starts using Super Bowl in their adds then paying big bucks to be an official sponsor is less valuable as your message gets lost in the crowd.
As for the product placement in shows and movies; it's not so much "we'll get s
Badly written (Score:5, Insightful)
The author totally skips over the first sentence ""This telecast is copyrighted by the NFL for the private use of our audience" and then points out all of the things that a private citizen can do.
Duh.
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No, they cant. Why do you think they can?
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I guess you never noticed that every one of the clips shown (which is what is being discussed) says 'courtesy of ...'. Guess what that means. They have permission!
And show me the SCOTUS decision that says it is OK to use someone else's copyrighted material for reporting the news. If the clip itself was news you may have a fair use argument, but the clip is never the news, it is what the clip shows that is news, so there is no fair use argument for using the clip.
A nice little piece discuss SuperBowl myths/facts. (Score:2)
http://www.todayifoundout.com/... [todayifoundout.com]
xkcd (Score:4, Insightful)
Munroe has the right idea:
Hooray for snacks! [xkcd.com]
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There's another option, which is not being interested in football (or whatever) simply to be polite, but to be interested in the other person's passion for football, which is something personal.
And snacks.
Re:xkcd (Score:5, Insightful)
People ask me about sports all the time and I just respond that I'm not interested in watching. The conversation typically goes like this:
"Why don't you like sports?"
"It's not that I don't like sports, in fact I like playing some of them. It's just that I don't enjoy watching them."
"Why? They're so exciting!"
"Would you like to watch me play a video game?"
"No."
"Why?"
"That's boring."
"Now you know how I feel about watching someone I don't know play a game on a field. Intersperse that with hundreds of advertisements, comments about how much money these guys are being paid because they were lucky enough to be born with the physical qualities that make them good at this game, and therefore how much more important they are than say, a group of scientists who's names you will never know that working on a cure for Parkinson's or leukemia."
The commercial aspect and obscene amounts of money and resources poured into "professional" sports is actually a major turn-off to me and turns it from something I'm merely "not interested in" to something I actually resent. I would have enjoyed Hockey back in the 50's or 60's when it was just a bunch of regular Joe's with day-jobs who played the game for the love of it, not because they're some prima-donnas who're demanding they get an extra million or they won't play. Go watch the movie BASEketBall to see this.
Olympics (Score:2)
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"Would you like to watch me play a video game?"
"No."
"Why?"
"That's boring."
"Now you know how I feel about watching someone I don't know play a game on a field."
Wow talk about false equivalence, I guess you don't know that watching eSports is a huge thing and PewDiePie is now YouTube's biggest hit? They just don't want to see a doofus like you play. People are interested in other people who can do exceptional things, whether it's an athlete or playing chess. It's not like that does anything important either.
What I can't understand are the people who get so caught up in "their" team even though they just happen to be born in the same region and these days with buyin
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Something Else (Score:2)
Probably coding something, playing guitar, or cooking steaks depending on when the game is on and where I am at the time. My girlfriend does pay attention to some football. She's from Philly so occasionally wants to know how her team is doing. She may have the game on.
And it's not 'cultivated disinterest'. I didn't grow up with sports interest in the house so I didn't have to cultivate it. I'm simply not interested. I know how it's played, I know where most teams are located, I even know who some of the pla
Re: Something Else (Score:2)
Almost same here. I been in the US all my life and I never got into the hype of this game. I get Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, and Hockey. Even Tennis. I love playing the first and last of those too. But Football and Cricket. Understand the rules, but don't get anywhere close to the craze.
It just seems the game is more sportsmanship, chess, and performance than an actual "game". There are a ridiculous number of stats and back stories that explain each actor. This provides enough material to talk abo
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What I always find amazing year after year in this game is the technology. I don't think there are many spy agencies, let alone games that have this level of advanced tech. They got drawing plays on your screen before the weatherman got green screens. They got automated wire cameras before traffic cams.
They did however do bullet-time wrong. Tried to cheap out with far too few cameras, using "interpolated" frames to pad out the motion.
DIrty (Score:2)
Football is pretty sleazy. I don't doubt that the rapes, the assaults, the murders, the cheating and all have been going on for a long time, but now it's all out in the open, and I've switched ove to the NHL. And once you do that, football becomes pretty boring too. Before I gave up on the leag
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and the pace is simply glacial
I get your criticisms, except this one. I mean, we are firmly in "subjective" territory here... but the setup-action, setup-action pace of football is fun for me. I like the tension that builds up. I hesitate to ask what you think of the pace of baseball? :)
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and the pace is simply glacial
I get your criticisms, except this one. I mean, we are firmly in "subjective" territory here... but the setup-action, setup-action pace of football is fun for me. I like the tension that builds up. I hesitate to ask what you think of the pace of baseball? :)
I used to enjoy the setup business, but after watching - and playing - Ice Hockey for a while, I ended up really getting into the constant action.
Note this is all tied into the general disgust I have been having with all of the criminality and perves we've been getting from all of football in recent years.
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I also love hockey - I think it edges out NFL football on my TV sports list. I'm able to separate the entertainment from the entertainers... otherwise I'd have a hard time listening to music or watching films! Baseball is still my favorite stadium experience, and unlike football I can watch just about any level from high school up without losing my mind.
Not planning on watching it ... (Score:2)
... start to finish. I'll flip over to it from time to time to check on the score. If it turns out that Seattle is beating the tar out of New England, I may keep watching just because I really can't stand the Patriots.
That's my canned humor (Score:2)
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They can "prohibit" it all they want... them saying something does not make it true.
History cannot be copyrighted. Accounts of those historical events can be, but the events themselves are facts, and facts cannot be considered property, intellectual or otherwise.
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I would. I would hope I should not have to ever remind a judge of the point, since they should be more versed in such matters.
How do you get bankrupted without a judge making a ruling against you in the first place?
Superbowl Alternatives (Score:2)
Puppy Bowl on Animal Planet and Kitten Bowl on Hallmark Channel. Then Downton Abbey on PBS followed by Grantchester.
Superbowl? (Score:2)
Better things to do.
it's the food (Score:2)
> So, will you be paying attention to the game today? Ignoring it? Practicing your cultivated disinterest?
Well lessee. Wife is the football fanatic in the family. The only one in the family who actually watches the sport, in fact. Wife is making snacks.... Wife makes pretty good snacks, and is highly motivated on Superbowl Sunday.
And so, I skipped dinner last night and breakfast this morning to save room for food this afternoon. But watch the game? It's noisy and boring. That's not out of some aff
Asshats (Score:2)
Asshats all the way down.
'Cultivated disinterest', indeed! (Score:2)
NFL is honoring cheaters with a chance at the top. (Score:2)
PuppyBowl on AnimalPlanet... (Score:2)
I'll be watching the Puppybowl on AnimalPlanet... The NFL can kiss my ass....
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Rugby is played by sissies. Hurling is where the real men go to play. They really should rename it "hematoma ball".
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international test cricket for the win.
Sorry, when was the last time an NFL player got killed when a bean beaned him in the face??
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Dying is for quitters.
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ooh, snap
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I particularly like the mounds of broken sticks that accumulate on the sideline during the game, mostly broken over the head of an opposing player.
Has been known to result in injuries to players [sagepub.com].
Re:The most boring game on Earth (Score:4, Funny)
Its 100 million people who who need exercise watching 22 guys who don't*.
*Then again .....
Don't mind me. I'm just here so I won't get fined.
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"The NFL" does not make any money. They pay the referees, they pay for the draft, they pay the commissioner, and they do a few other things. They get the money to do this by charging dues to the 32 member teams. If "the NFL" has any money left over, they divide it up and give it back to the teams.
All the profit that "the NFL" makes is really made by the teams. The teams are independent businesses organized under the