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Education Businesses The Internet

What Happens When the "Sharing Economy" Meets Higher Education 94

Posted by samzenpus from the and-now-I'm-a-professor dept.
jyosim writes Professors now make big bucks teaching in educational marketplaces. Sites that let anyone teach courses might just change the way people think about the value of education, about the nature of expertise, and about what teaching is worth. From the article: "When Nick Walter graduated with an information-systems degree, he intended to start his own tech company to create the next big iPhone app, as so many twenty-somethings have tried in recent years. But then something dawned on him: He could make more money teaching. He set up a free account on a site called Udemy, which lets anyone teach online courses and charge for them, and then uploaded a series of lecture videos and exercises showing other people how to make apps. Walter had no experience teaching, no affiliation with a university or accredited educational institution, and—by his own admission—no particular gifts as a computer-science student. But that doesn’t matter to Udemy, or to any of a number of similar platforms that have emerged in recent years."
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What Happens When the "Sharing Economy" Meets Higher Education More

What Happens When the "Sharing Economy" Meets Higher Education

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  • caveat emptor.

  • In what universe? (Score:5, Funny)

    by meustrus ( 1588597 ) <meustrus@NospAm.gmail.com> on Monday February 02, 2015 @12:19PM (#48959055)

    But then something dawned on him: He could make more money teaching.

    What? You lost me there.

    • You can make a lot of money in education, Just as long as you are not in the teachers Union.
      No this isn't about being Anti-Union. But the fact the Union tries to protect the member, they offer less risk in a teaching career, however as a non-member there is a lot more risk of failure, so you get more reward. So if you want a job and you don't get fired for giving billy the son of the mayor an F because he didn't do his homework all semester, then union protection is important. However if you are willing t

    • Your sig is spot on. Your comment does indeed seem ignorant. Now go RTFA.
      • It does make sense that there is money to be made in education. But I've never known anybody who says to themselves, "Gee, you know who makes money hand over fist? Teachers!"

  • Misunderstanding of Higher Education Economics (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 02, 2015 @12:32PM (#48959187)

    The summary (though not the article) begins on the assumption that professors make big bucks. That may have been true at one point, but it's certainly not true now. Yes, full-time tenure track faculty average close to six figures annually, but only 27% of university instructors are full-time or tenure-tracked[1]. The remaining 73% or so is made up of adjunct faculty, who typically earn somewhere between $20-25k annually[2]. So, the idea that the sharing economy is going to be able to massively bring down educational costs by putting market pressure on faculty salaries doesn't really hold up. That market pressure was already there, and faculty salaries are already in the toilet. I'm not sure salaries can go down further without those teachers exiting the market entirely.

    It's probably also worth mentioning, the vast majority of traditional (and non-traditional) students don't really go to an educational institute just to learn (though, it would be nice if they were to learn too). Students usually go to those institutions for a recognized credential or degree. Even if you're obtaining excellent instruction from the Internet, you're not going to get that degree. The real scarcity isn't teachers at the university level (as demonstrated by super-low wages for adjuncts). The real thing that keeps prices up is the artificial monopoly created by accreditation systems.

    And, that might not entirely be a bad thing. Four year universities usually try to create well-rounded students, who learn much more than they'd ever need in their personal career. Students often complain about having to take classes they don't care about, but being broadly educated does seem to make individuals more open minded to solutions to problems that are not necessarily within their usual field of vision. If students could pick and choose their own courses, they'd rarely get that broad-view approach.

    In short: this new app might be fine, but it won't revolutionize higher education in any meaningful fashion.

    [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01... [nytimes.com]
    [2] http://www.npr.org/2013/09/22/... [npr.org]

    • FWIW I get paid about $700 per credit hour per semester to teach as an adjunct... IF you don't go crazy with course design, grading assignments, etc. you can do a good job in about 8 hours per week for a 3 credit course so it works out to about $20/hr over the term.

      Do it wrong, and you'll sink a ton of hours into it though. Teaching 20 students is a lot less work than tutoring 20 students...

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Assuming you're working full-time as an adjunct, and you're doing 8 hours a week per course, you'd need to find 5 courses per term of teaching to be working full time. Most of the time as an adjunct, a single institution won't give you 5 courses a semester as an adjunct (usually because they would have to give you health benefits). So, presumably, you're having to have work at 2-3 different institutions to maintain a full-time load, which often means increased commute time due to having to travel to multi

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Yikes! I thought I was underpaid as an adjunct making $900/credit hour. I did the math, and factoring in benefits, I actually made more per credit hour while TAing as a graduate student. I stopped doing it (though am officially still listed as an adjunct with my university) because it wasn't worth the time investment, and I make a whole heck of a lot more coding.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Sarlok ( 144969 )
      The 27% in your first article is full-time tenure-track. The remaining 73% does include adjuncts, but there are also full-time non tenure-track positions, such as a yearly contract. I know because I have a friend in academia that has been doing those positions for a several years now. He at least is paid decently as a full-time position, but he has to essentially reapply every year and doesn't get paid as well as tenure-track positions. Several of those spots have been truly temporary positions (a perma

    • Turns out most people aren't good self-motivated learners. You find that if you have the "courseware" kind of model where people can just go and watch lectures and do assignments at their own pace the attrition and failure rate is very high. People just won't do what they need to do. They need a more structured environment to succeed. Now you can get all self superior and say "Well they should just work harder and not suck!" but we have to deal with the real world and that means educating all types of peopl

    • Correction: Full time, already tenured professors who have been teaching for a few decades might hit close to six figures. Tenure-track, or just-tenured professors are usually in the 50K-60K range. Still better than the adjuncts, but still not as much, adjusted for inflation, as my father made processing medical records in the '80s. (Source: I'm married to a tenured professor. I sure wish he was making close to six figures....)
    • I'm an assistant professor, the lowest rank. And I'm in the humanities My salary is just very slightly over $50k. I am paid more than most of my colleagues because my institution was bidding against another similar institution. A starting humanities prof will earn in the mid-40s, as of now. A few years ago it was the low 40s. I'm getting the numbers based on what I know about several R1s, one very, very well-endowed, and from lesser schools. Event at the highest rank, I--and my colleagues at peer institutio

  • And a great gift for fooling students ?

    He could get tenure at most universities

    • Re:No experience teaching no particular gift for i (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rockmuelle ( 575982 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @12:48PM (#48959363)

      I have a Ph.D. and am now fully qualified to teach university courses. The funny thing about that is that in the course of getting my Ph.D., I never once had to take a course on how to teach or even teach/TA a course (I was a research assistant the whole time I was in grad school).

      I'm an outlier on not having to teach/TA a course in grad school (I did TA an undergrad, though) , but I don't know of any graduate programs that require actual training for teaching.

      The person cited in the summary is just as qualified as most Ph.D.s. :)

      As for the big bucks, two of my good friends from grad school (both computer scientists) spent their first two years working for free waiting for tenure track positions to open up. They get decent salaries now, but over the course of their careers, it's not what I'd call big bucks.

      -Chris

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jythie ( 914043 )
        Well, just as qualified in terms of knowing how to teach, but I would wager that a PhD knows more about their field then some random person who failed at making iPhone apps. Even if the guy is really bright, there is going to be a lot of try, tedious material that he never learned which is going to impact his teaching if he has to stray from 'here is how you use XYZ framework/API/etc'.

        • Not only that, but someone with a PhD has had their share of teachers who were great, and those that weren't. I've never had a "teach 'em how to teach" course, but I can read about best practices, emulate the good teachers I've had, and do those things I want done to/for me as a student.

      • I never once had to take a course on how to teach or even teach/TA a course (I was a research assistant the whole time I was in grad school).

        You are a textbook example of why many professors in colleges are horrible teachers. They have no experience, and they are more interested in doing their research than teaching.

        The person cited in the summary is just as qualified as most Ph.D.s. :)

        Not true. He is not as educated or experienced in the topic as someone who has a Ph.D would be, and it would be trivial to stump him with a more advanced question. He is as qualified with respect to experience actually teaching, but he has not been in as many classes to see what hasn't worked by experiencing it. He may have had a g

  • Turns out that producing a product worth thousands (a piece of college-level education) is worth more than producing a random app of worth a couple dollars and which might be a flop.

    And good for him. Thanks to his efforts, we're one little step closer to education actually being free to everyone (instead of merely subsidized by taxpayers and limited to people of the correct nationality).

    • This is the point that all those "Ask Slashdot - I'm about to get laid off at my job and I hear there's big money in making apps. I have no programming experience but I have an idea, so how can I get it done in less than 6 months" fail to get. The app gold rush is well and truly dead, and the way to make money is to milk the suckers.
      • Kind of like the "flipping houses" gold rush. As a property manager, part of my job is to buy houses that some poor sucker bought and sunk tens of thousands of dollars into and is now worth maybe $1,000 more than when he bought it. The people really making a killing are the lecturers who go around the country selling "programs" on how to flip houses.
        • Ditto with all those "Believe your way to success" self-improvement scams. The big hook is that, if you do this right, you too can make money teaching others how to improve themselves. I've had friends fall for these stupidities, and a few times it's gotten to the point of just letting them do it instead of trying to talk some sense into them, because people get angry when you throw water on their "get-rich the easy way" schemes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gnupun ( 752725 )

      Turns out that producing a product worth thousands (a piece of college-level education) is worth more than producing a random app of worth a couple dollars and which might be a flop.

      But now that the secret's out, won't Udemy be flooded with lectures by people wanting to make $1,000 a day? Programming a 99 cents app is a lot harder than making a lecture about some easy subject.

      • But now that the secret's out, won't Udemy be flooded with lectures by people wanting to make $1,000 a day?

        I hope so! More education available in a format that can be infinitely reproduced at near zero marginal cost will put some bounds on the cost and quality of traditional education, as they will be rightly afraid of losing business if they don't perform.

        • Until Khan and these other shareducators get the ability to issue actual degrees, this won't matter that much. In many career jobs, you have to have a degree. Just knowing your stuff will only get you so far. (Also, it is easy for HR to see if you have a degree or not. It is hard for them to know if you are any good, but no-one has ever been fired for hiring some-one with a degree. So HR departments will prefer to require degrees.)

          • The job of educators is to educate people, not make life simple for some company's HR department.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by narcc ( 412956 )

            It won't happen. With a flood of idiots making 'educational videos' looking to turn a quick buck, you're going to end up with a lot of nonsense. You won't find an accrediting body willing to overlook that.

  • I don't know how much he gets paid, but here [ed2go.com] are the qualifications for the ed2go "Mac, iPhone, and iPad Programming" teacher:

    Wallace Wang is the author of more than 40 computer books including Microsoft Office 2010 For Dummies. In addition to writing computer books, he has co-authored Breaking Into Acting for Dummies and has ghostwritten several books about investing in real estate, day trading stocks, and becoming an entrepreneur. His past jobs have included teaching computer science courses at the University of Zimbabwe, performing stand-up comedy, and appearing on a weekly radio show.

    (Most programming ed2go teachers are more qualified that that.)

  • Goodbye college football (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @12:44PM (#48959325)

    Forty years ago there were people out there, sci-fi writers and others, who envisioned that this was how all education would eventually be done, from elementary school all the way through college. They seemed to sense that the television and computer and telephone would somehow be put together to create a learning environment. The entire idea sounded fantastic to me.

    When I got out of high school I joined the Navy and went through avionics school. The school was computer-driven and self-paced, and I loved it. For once I didn't have to be held back in classes that had to be taught to the level of the lowest common denominator. I remember thinking that I wish all education was like this.

    Now the technology is here to create these kind of learning environments for nearly everyone, and it's affordable. I think that traditional universities, and even high schools and elementary schools, will eventually go away. We're seeing the beginnings of that now.

    If I live long enough, I suppose I will miss college football, but in the long run, this is the best thing for education.

    • Re:Goodbye college football (Score:4, Interesting)

      by hibiki_r ( 649814 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @02:01PM (#48960233)

      Schools will probably not go away quickly, as there is plenty of value in learning socialization, and kids will not learn that by sitting at home in front of a computer.

      Schools are moving towards having some of that kind of learning though. Take, for instance, elementary school math. You have a bunch of kids coming in at K or 1st grade, which have drastically different experience and skill levels. Some kids will barely be able to count to 10, and read small numbers. Others enter K understanding multiplication and division. And yet traditionally, we put them in the same class, and teach them math together.

      Now we have computer systems that can throw math exercises and lessons to kids, individualized to their skill level. So when the kindergartener that should be in 4th grade, seems to never miss at counting and number recognition, he just keeps getting more challenging material, until he's quickly doing 4th grade math.

      • This has been the dream for, like, a century now... but schools are simply not structured to permit that. Actually about 20 years ago in the USA we/they doubled-down on the issue; the phrase "tracking students" into different classes or programs by ability was effectively prohibited everywhere, and is considered inequitable, immoral, and kind of offensive to even mention in many educational circles. The standard response in recent decades is that the bright kids should spend their time group-tutoring the sl

        • FWIW, my son (now about 20) did wind up in special programs, particularly in high school. The high school program he was in was specifically aimed at college prep, and he graduated high school with over half the college credits he needed to graduate (which didn't mean he finished in two years, because a lot of them were in places that didn't count much towards graduation, but did give him junior priority in scheduling classes). The Minneapolis Public School System has its failings, but it does provide di

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 )

        I'm sure they won't go away quickly -- probably not in my lifetime -- but I do think they will evolve into something radically different from what they are now.

    • The evidence is phenomenally consistent that the online self-paced stuff works great for professional people who've mastered college-level skills in reading, writing, and math... but falls on its face for people who don't have that. For example, every attempt at getting the horde of people who need algebra remediation through online course has been a disaster. UDacity tried it at San Jose state and was suspended after one semester. Community colleges in Philadelphia tried it and concluded "The failure rates

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rdnetto ( 955205 )

        The evidence is phenomenally consistent that the online self-paced stuff works great for professional people who've mastered college-level skills in reading, writing, and math... but falls on its face for people who don't have that. For example, every attempt at getting the horde of people who need algebra remediation through online course has been a disaster. UDacity tried it at San Jose state and was suspended after one semester. Community colleges in Philadelphia tried it and concluded "The failure rates were so high that it seemed almost unethical to offer the option". So I highly doubt you can replace elementary/secondary schools with this method; at that level, most student need a personal face and hand-holding through the material, especially with technical stuff like using, interpreting, and debugging online resources in the first place.

        http://www.angrymath.com/2013/06/online-remedial-courses-considered.html
        http://www.angrymath.com/2013/... [angrymath.com]

        I think there is a bit of selection bias here. Each course has pre-requisite knowledge, and I suspect a large part of the reason people can struggle with a course (and therefore need a remedial course) is because they don't have a solid grasp of the assumed knowledge. This is especially true for subjects like math, where all the different subdisciplines are inter-connected (e.g. consider how often log and trig laws turn up in calculus).

        This problem arises partly because students are not held back a year if

  • Beware the Do vs Teach dilemma (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PseudoCoder ( 1642383 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @12:46PM (#48959343)

    More than half of my engineering curriculum was taught by prolific researchers who couldn't teach worth a damn. I was a tutor through most of college and found myself "reteaching" a lot of the stuff they would teach to others who came looking for help. Not because I was bright, see I struggled to understand the same topics, but I was able to break the topics down in a way that made more sense. Tying "building block" concepts progressively, until the process showed the complete picture, at which point I could teach them to myself for my own understanding, and then to others. That's when I realized good teachers require the whole package of skills; proficiency in their subject and a mind to educate by facilitating the process of connecting concepts.

    Sounds like a good place for a free market to open up. What teaching is worth should lean heavily on a feedback/review framework like Amazon's such that people don't end up paying for a class that sucks, by every student's experience, because the professor can't communicate concepts, or communicate at all. Like the time I spent almost weeks trying to figure out what the foreigner in my Space Systems course meant by "papamaaa". By the way, that's "performance".

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      More than half of my engineering curriculum was taught by prolific researchers who couldn't teach worth a damn. I was a tutor through most of college and found myself "reteaching" a lot of the stuff they would teach to others who came looking for help. Not because I was bright, see I struggled to understand the same topics, but I was able to break the topics down in a way that made more sense. Tying "building block" concepts progressively, until the process showed the complete picture, at which point I could teach them to myself for my own understanding, and then to others. That's when I realized good teachers require the whole package of skills; proficiency in their subject and a mind to educate by facilitating the process of connecting concepts.

      Sounds like a good place for a free market to open up. What teaching is worth should lean heavily on a feedback/review framework like Amazon's such that people don't end up paying for a class that sucks, by every student's experience, because the professor can't communicate concepts, or communicate at all. Like the time I spent almost weeks trying to figure out what the foreigner in my Space Systems course meant by "papamaaa". By the way, that's "performance".

      Let me guess, you didn't do well in the classes and you've found it very convenient to blame the professor's accent for your failures.

      Just kidding, LOL.

      We're in college, there is the internet. You don't need professors of a skill of a stand up comedian to keep you entertained for 3 hours/week. Don't look at the professor for learning, the most important aspect is your classmates. Take classes with your friends or make new friends. You'll do well, you'll have fun and learn a lot. Just don't expect your p

      • Wow. You get to miss the point of my post AND show yourself a smart-ass all in one post. Such efficiency!

        When I went to college the internet was but a fetus compared to what it is now. And regardless, my classmates were not tasked and paid to teach me something; the guy up front with the diplomas on his wall and the chalk in his hand was. To give a pass to the person who has an assigned responsibility and fails, only to put that responsibility on your buds isn't as clever as you make it sound.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by m00sh ( 2538182 )

          Wow. You get to miss the point of my post AND show yourself a smart-ass all in one post. Such efficiency!

          When I went to college the internet was but a fetus compared to what it is now. And regardless, my classmates were not tasked and paid to teach me something; the guy up front with the diplomas on his wall and the chalk in his hand was. To give a pass to the person who has an assigned responsibility and fails, only to put that responsibility on your buds isn't as clever as you make it sound.

          First of all, grow a sense of humor buddy. Don't assume I'm insulting you. I'm replying to your post to add something to what you said.

          Anyways, he's not paid to teach you, he's paid to teach the class. If you don't learn anything in the class and you fail, that's not his problem. You and your classmates have a shared goal of learning the material and working together will make the goal easier to attain for both of you.

          Anyways you're not in school anymore so this is all just pointless talking.

  • This sounds like almost every free-lance "music" teacher I've ever come across.

    Just because you can play some chords on a guitar doesn't make you qualified to teach music. These folks are either naive about how much work and expertise it actually takes to be a true teacher, or they're charlatans attempting to prey off the naivete of others. I mean, there's a reason why we have education accreditation boards, right?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by fche ( 36607 )

      "I mean, there's a reason why we have education accreditation
      boards, right?"

      That would make a good line in a lullaby.

      Government accreditation, certification, regulation, are all just well-intentioned market-suppression efforts. With information flowing so freely now, these will be routed around.

    • This was my first thought, too. People who can barely program in PHP have been posting what I will generously call "tutorials" online for well over a decade, and the result has been a wild proliferation of people who only think they're good programmers.

  • Minerva Etc. (Score:3)

    by retroworks ( 652802 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @01:19PM (#48959683) Homepage Journal

    I'm married to a tenured prof, and I had the idea about 7 years ago (reserved a domain guerillacampus.org) to "uber" the college classroom. My idea was to use only fully tenured professors at area colleges to teach "on the side", so that students who paid would know they were getting the same generic teaching ingredients. Now I've got twins entering as freshmen, and looking at all the expenses and loans anew. I see Minerva Project is trying something similar, to replicate a "highly selective" competitive environment without the added expense of "campus" largesse.

    No doubt there is an opportunity somewhere in MOOCs or Minervas or Uber-professors to provide the teaching with lower expense. However, I found that it was a lot more difficult than having an idea and recruiting the teachers. Vetting students, recruiting, providing a certified brand of diploma, etc. proved fairly significant, and without scale of students one faces very high administrative challenges. He's not the first to have the idea and it's not going to be easy when students drop out or demand transcripts 5 years later, or don't pay their teachers as planned. But I hope he succeeds, if only to send a warning shot over the universities bows, ie that colleges have potential competition if they remain in the "arms race" to build massive capital intensive campuses.

  • Most people work after graduating, become consultants, and hit the rubber chicken circuit by writing books and doing videos. So someone figured out how to skip working and consulting, went straight to the videos, and made big bucks. Meh... I got a business plan on the back of a napkin that will make zillions. Give me your money.

  • "Professors now make big bucks teaching"

    BWA! HA! HA!

    Sorry, couldn't read beyond this. Too damned funny. Or stupid, if you prefer.

  • Khan Acadamy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @01:45PM (#48960031)

    Salman Khan [wikipedia.org] has done rather well considering he didn't get a degree in 'education'. The ability to teach has little to do with the teaching credentials that our education system demands. It's comunication, coaching and mentoring skills. The whole certification industry only serves to maintain scarcity and keep union teachers' wages and tuitions artificially high.

    • Re:Khan Acadamy (Score:4, Insightful)

      by unimacs ( 597299 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @02:04PM (#48960275)
      Put Salmon Khan in a classroom with 25 third graders and see how well he does.

      I'm not saying you need a degree in education to teach, but different sets of skills are required for different students in different settings. Degree programs prepare teachers to succeed in a variety of situations many of which are more challenging than making videos.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by jammz ( 55986 )
      Uh, no. The "certification industry" as you call it is based on a history much older than industry and it isn't about "maintaining scarcity" or "wages and tuition artificially high." Accreditation is about standards for an institution of higher learning. You can look at the scandals around for-profit organizations like Corinthian College, Inc. [buzzfeed.com] as a perfect example of why it's important to protect and foster higher education standards. Yes, "communication, coaching and mentoring" are important skills in a

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by PPH ( 736903 )

        The "certification industry" as you call it is based on a history much older than industry

        Not really. People have been learning from elders or through apprenticeship for far longer than universities have been handing out degrees in education. Possibly longer than universities have existed. Where did Plato earn his teaching certificate?

        Accreditation is about standards for an institution of higher learning.

        Yes, but I was addressing teaching certification (of individuals). Which provides a barrier to entry into the education industry (albeit a pretty low one). But once people have their certificate and a job at the local high school, the union fights any further quali

    • Couldn't agree more.

      I happen to have both an Engineering degree and a postgraduate degree in relation to (Computer) Science Education; These are all good baggage to have, however after 100s of technical trainings assignments I can testify that nothing beats to be committed to the task of helping others through knowledge. It requires both self-reflection on how we learn and beyond average self-investment in gently pushing others through conceptual leaps and mental barriers.

      If teaching was teachable, then who

  • Slippery slope (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I watched an intriguing documentary about a high school chemistry teacher that lost his job and began dealing drugs...

  • Some amateurs are Sherlock; some are just amateurs (Score:3)

    by DutchUncle ( 826473 ) on Monday February 02, 2015 @02:47PM (#48960839)
    Problem is, this could go right up next to the "common folks'" belief in "common sense over so-called science", and derision of "experts" of any sort. Degrees and certificates do not necessarily impart wisdom; many without degrees or certificates have wisdom; and neither paperwork nor wisdom are necessarily combined with an ability to instruct others, in either positive or negative correlation. OTOH, the Youtube attitude that "lots of people can make an entertaining performance video" does not mean that all of them are of good quality (either the video or the performance or both), and certainly does not mean that "anybody can make an instructional video too". Most Americans profess to speak English, but an immigrant seeking to learn English would get wildly varying results picking one at random as an instructor.
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