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United Kingdom Encryption

Alan Turing's Notes Found After Being Used As Insulation At Bletchley Park 121

An anonymous reader writes: In 2013, a restoration project for Hut 6 of Bletchley Park uncovered a collection of papers being used as roof insulation. The papers were frozen to preserve them while they were inspected and repaired. Now they're on display at an exhibition showing items found during the restoration process. "The documents also included the only known examples of Banbury sheets, a technique devised by [Turing] to accelerate the process of decrypting Nazi messages. No other examples have ever been found. All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules."
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Alan Turing's Notes Found After Being Used As Insulation At Bletchley Park

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @12:22AM (#48976843)

    First they persecute him for being gay, then they assassinate him, and finally they use his notes as insulation.

    Those British pommy bastards are pure evil, and they deserve to have their rotten Empire collapse around their ears.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @12:25AM (#48976855)

    Yes but are the notes Turing Complete?

  • We get The Imitation Game 2?
  • by pipedwho ( 1174327 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @12:57AM (#48977035)

    Imagine being the guy that had to sift through the freshly dug up latrine behind Hut 6. Just to make sure nothing important was used during someone's morning constitutional.

  • What the.... (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by mcrbids ( 148650 )

    Somebody had to see these notes, decide that they were worthless, and actually roll them up to make insulation. I want to punch that guy. How does this happen!?!?

    • Re:What the.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by iluvcapra ( 782887 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @01:01AM (#48977063)

      I want to punch that guy. How does this happen!?!?

      His actions saved the documents from certain destruction. Punch something else.

      • by k6mfw ( 1182893 )

        His actions saved the documents from certain destruction.

        This kind of thing has happened before. Some years ago (I cannot recall actual wording, read this years ago) an late 1800s old house was being remodeled. Crews found newspapers and many documents lining the framework under wall paneling. Back in the days it was common to use newspapers and other papers for insulation. Obviously they found some very old newspapers but also a original copy from late 1700s (or was it early 1800s) document. I can't remember how the story went, either one of Thomas Jefferson's p

    • Re:What the.... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Lunix Nutcase ( 1092239 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @01:08AM (#48977085)

      You're mad that someone's action saved the documents from being destroyed? Did you forget to read the last sentence of the summary?

      All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules.

      • You're mad that someone's action saved the documents from being destroyed? Did you forget to read the last sentence of the summary?

        All the findings are unique as all documentary evidence from the codebreaking process was supposed to be destroyed under wartime security rules.

        Maybe the OP is from the War Office?

    • Almost certainly the result of someone rescuing some paper from a bin to reuse in the insulation - the notes were "destroyed" as required, but re-purposed into another process.

    • It was mostly just scribbling, and notes taken during decription. They had reams of the stuff that was no longer useful. This seems like mostly routine day-to-day stuff that would have been seen as having zero value a couple of days later. Probably installed while Hut 6 was actually active. They had heaps of papers that had no actual use other than insulation material.
  • See if the Apollo 11 tapes are in there also.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      See if the Apollo 11 tapes are in there also.

      Those are kept in Area 51.

    • I don't think they are there, but the lost episodes of Doctor Who might be.

  • Disapprove (Score:4, Funny)

    by penguinoid ( 724646 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @02:04AM (#48977303) Homepage Journal

    Using the work of a luminary like Alan Turing is such a way is insulating!

  • Question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by symes ( 835608 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @03:59AM (#48977681) Journal

    Other than the obvious impact Turing's work had in the war effort, did people at Bletchley have any idea how valuable his work would be more generally? My computer science peers are quite good at explaining how their work might have value and impact. Indeed, a lot of scientists these days start publications by providing this context. But is the same true in the first half of the twentieth century and in the middle of a world war? It might well have been the case that his notes were genuinely believed to have more value as insulation.

    • Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @04:25AM (#48977759)

      "Alan Turing's notes" is somewhat overselling it. They're not talking about a white paper: Bletchley would have produced hundreds of sheets of these kind of scrap workings every day, so they were genuinely worthless then. They're only worth anything now because all of the rest were destroyed. To put it in perspective, they're more valuable to us than a shopping list from that era would be, but less valuable than a shopping list from ancient Sumeria would be.

      • so they were genuinely worthless then

        I think what you're trying to say is that they had served their original purpose. If they were worthless at the time, the military would not have gone out of their way to ensure none of it survived the war. Note that after the war the "five eyes" kept a lid on their wartime code breaking technology until the 1970's, long after Turing's death they were using it to listen in on friends and foes who had no idea such sophisticated code cracking techniques were even possible.

        • There was an exception; the extensive Pearl Harbor hearings shortly after the war revealed the breaking of the main Japanese naval code. It is interesting to go through history written through the 1960s and notice things that just happened to go well for the Western Allies because they "guessed right".

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      In the early 1940's yes. By the 1950's the UK had an entire new generation of skilled people working on jet, nuclear and electronic brain projects. The GCHQ had moved onto helping the US with its difficult Korean war issues. By the 1950's Turing's role in ww2 and his 1950's travel was seen a huge security risk.
      Any documents and hardware from the 1940's was also seen as a security risk. Why tell the world how the UK had won ww2 by reading German Red, Tunny material in realtime? Its a good trick that th
      • Re:Question (Score:5, Interesting)

        by nukenerd ( 172703 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @08:45AM (#48978851)

        Any documents and hardware from the 1940's was also seen as a security risk. Why tell the world how the UK had won ww2 by reading German Red, Tunny material in realtime?

        Churchill ordered all material at Bletchley to be destroyed (both paperwork and hardware like several Colossus computers) not primarily because of the security risk. It was highly unlikely that any other foe would use the same encryption method as the Germans had.

        It was because Churchill did not want the credit for winning the war to go to a handful of boffins rather than to the armed forces. This was for reasons of public morale; hundreds of thousands had died in combat and air raids, and everyone had lived in austerity for years. He did not want people to think that all that sacrifice had been pointless because in the end the war had really been won by "some university-type egghead smart-arses using dirty tricks" - because that is how the majority of the public would have seen it.

        If you doubt how that is how most people would have seen it in 1950, just fast-forward and think of how most people see the activities of the NSA today.

        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Another reason was the US and UK had got the German OKW-Chi work on from the Target Intelligence Committee teams (TICOM) on the Russian Fish system.
          A Soviet military teleprinter that used packet switching was then open to the US and UK in 1945 thanks to German efforts during ww2.
          Later efforts by German teams in the UK helped with the Caviar project but only got Soviet administration messages.
          All that German material given to the UK in 1945 by the Germans was still been sorted by the UK into the early 195
        • If you doubt how that is how most people would have seen it in 1950, just fast-forward and think of how most people see the activities of the NSA today.

          Are you implying that Bletchley Park was spying against their own people? Because that's what's wrong with the NSA, not the fact that they're "egghead smart-asses," or the fact that they're spying. The NSA spying against foreign enemies* is just fine.

          (* Both words are important: spying against foreign allies is not fine because it leads to Five Eyes style do

          • by tnk1 ( 899206 )

            Today's allies can be tomorrow's enemies. You most definitely spy on them, you just don't go sabotaging them.

            Yes, there is the problem of collusion like Five Eyes. So... you write a law requiring that a) all spies on our soil need to be apprehended if they are found and b) that we are not permitted to use material from foreign intelligence against internal parties unless there is a specific, clear, and present danger or during wartime. It can't be used for fishing expeditions and all employees of the age

        • It was because Churchill did not want the credit for winning the war to go to a handful of boffins rather than to the armed forces.

          Not really, and the credit goes to both the fighters and the thinkers. Aside from being the key to sinking the entire U-boat fleet in the N. Atlantic by informing the fighters where the subs would surface, this is the same technology that was used to arrange a more famous naval ambush known as the battle of midway. Churchill and his allies didn't want anyone to know about the techniques because it was a huge military and economic advantage, even the fact they existed was kept a secret, so much so that very

        • by u38cg ( 607297 )
          [citation needed]
        • There's also the fact that the Brits scooped up all the Enigma machines they could and sold them cheap to new governments of emerging nations. The British were doing their best to make sure that other people used the exact same encryption method the Germans had used.

    • did people at Bletchley have any idea how valuable his work would be more generally?

      There were many different types of people there, but the majority would almost certainly be so worried about living to the end of the week, that "long term" was probably next month for of them. However, there were certainly a core who knew the significance, and that included Turing and his close colleagues - especially those who went to Los Alamos, and those who went on the build computers most certainly knew.

      Everyone kne

    • It might well have been the case that his notes were genuinely believed to have more value as insulation.

      Unlikely, Turing's work was so useful to the war effort that Churchill basically gave him a blank cheque. It's doubtful the military brass knew anything about the insulation, if they did they would have probably burnt down the entire building just to be sure all the papers were destroyed. Sounds much more like the act of a bunch of engineers and boffins, ie: "To hell with idiotic military secrecy, I'm not putting out the top secret recycling this week, there are no Nazi's in the ceiling and I'm freezing my

      • by k6mfw ( 1182893 )

        there are no Nazi's in the ceiling and I'm freezing my arse off here".

        best explanation ever.

  • Next steps ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by slimdave ( 710334 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @04:22AM (#48977749)

    The notes will be restored and then popped into a glass display case with one or two pages visible, with a sort-of description of why they are important.

    Pretty much all of Bletchley is like this, unfortunately. Stuff on display that you are not going to understand, such as copies of Turing's early mathematical papers with only the first page showing.

    The problem with the whole Bletchley Park experience is that it was obviously extremely important, but is practically beyond all explanation for the ordinary punter. I think I might be able to intellectually struggle through an explanation of some of it, but the displays do not explain it in enough detail to help with that. Overall, my visit felt like a patchwork of different explanations of the same few concepts using poster boards, audio devices and video and interactive displays. It's padded out with various "wartime experience" bits here and there.

    It probably seems like a very negative attitude, but a technical chap in his mid-forties with a couple of bright teenagers in tow ought to be right in the target demographic for Bletchley, but I'm practically embarrassed to say that I ended up drinking weak hot chocolate in the cafe and agreeing with my boys that it was all rather dull.

    Special commendation for the rack of old bicycles at the end of one of the huts, with a hidden speaker to give you the authentic experience of what squeaky bicycle wheels sounded like in the 1940's. Or something?

    • The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley (which is a separate entity) is the best bit IMHO. You can see Colossus running and chat with the guys restoring old valve computers.
    • by langelgjm ( 860756 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @09:03AM (#48978973) Journal
      Visited the National Cryptologic Museum (on the same campus as the NSA, just off 295 in Maryland) about a decade ago. I and my then-girlfriend were probably the only visitors in the entire building, and the staff were pretty excited to see us. They even let us try out the German Enigma machine they had on display - no glass display case at that time! Don't know if it's changed in the last ten years, though.
      • Still the same. My dad took me there during a snow storm once when I was a kid. Having the curator to yourself is quite an experience as they really know their stuff.

        The three wheel enigma is still on display for kids to type away on. It amazingly still works.

        https://www.nsa.gov/about/cryp... [nsa.gov]

        Another neat one is the National Electronics Museum just up 295 off Nursery Rd

        http://www.nationalelectronics... [nationalel...museum.org]

        They have displays on electronics concepts and quite a bit of old hardware used in radar, communications,

  • Anything in there concerning something like "P" or "NP"? One can dream...
  • Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

    I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

    • by Aristos Mazer ( 181252 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @07:16AM (#48978355)

      Pretty much any country in the world would have treated Turing the same in that era. Most of the world still would. The Brits have no special shame in that category, and they have been doing their level best to set things right. Many other countries still have yet to catch up, not just legally, but culturally.

    • by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Wednesday February 04, 2015 @08:10AM (#48978585)

      Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      As opposed to forcibly enslaving millions of people around the world through several centuries of colonial rule? If you're going to lay a guilt trip on Britain, what about the US with it's legacy of slavery? And good heavens, look at the evils perpetrated in communist Russia, or Germany and Japan during the war years. Look, every country has their black marks, and some are pretty damn black indeed. If you're going to collectively assign guilt to future generations, it will never end. Ever. Future generations will also look at us and sadly shake their heads, I'm sure. We learn from the past, we forgive, we try to make things right as best we can, and we move on.

      The British government has offered an official apology for their treatment of him and pardoned him, and I'm not sure how much more he can be honored and appreciated he can be at this point, not just by the Brits, but by everyone who knows how much he accomplished. See my sig.

      • As opposed to forcibly enslaving millions of people around the world through several centuries of colonial rule?

        So, what about Ireland?

    • by Rich0 ( 548339 )

      Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      Well, Turing had a HUGE impact on the war, no doubt. It is a bit much to say that it was more than ALL of the RAF. The allies would almost certainly have won without Ultra (eventually), but they certainly wouldn't have won without the conventional forces.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      Well, the folks who treated him (and others) this way should be ashamed of their actions. The "brits" certainly were no worse in this regard than most who were alive at the time. The use of the word "still" is a bit chilling - most of the people who wer

    • Yet he did more to save their asses than ALL of the RAF.

      I hope all you brits are still ashamed of yourselves.

      Yeah, if only he could have made it to the US, he'd have been welcomed with open arms. It was a real haven for left wing gays in the 1950s.

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

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