YouTube Video of Racist Chant Results In Fraternity Closure 606
HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that after a video was posted on YouTube that appeared to show members of the members Sigma Alpha Epsilon at University of Oklahoma singing a racist chant, the organization's board decided "with no mental reservation whatsoever that this chapter needed to be closed immediately." The video shows a group of young white people in formal wear riding a bus and singing a chant laden with antiblack slurs and at least one reference to lynching. A grinning young man wearing a tuxedo and standing in the aisle of the bus pumps his fist in the air as he chants, while a young woman seated nearby claps. The chant vows that African-Americans will "never" be allowed to join the campus chapter.
The nine-second video was uploaded to YouTube on Sunday by a student group, the Unheard Movement, that first identified the people in it as members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, although the group did not indicate how it obtained the video or when it was filmed. University president, David Boren, said in an emailed statement that the administration was also investigating the video. "I have just been informed of the video, which purports to show students to show students engaging in a racist chant. We are investigating to determine if the video involved OU students. If O.U. students are involved, this behavior will not be tolerated and will be addressed very quickly," said Boren. "This behavior is reprehensible and contrary to all of our values." Students marched on the campus of the University of Oklahoma on Monday to protest the video.
The nine-second video was uploaded to YouTube on Sunday by a student group, the Unheard Movement, that first identified the people in it as members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, although the group did not indicate how it obtained the video or when it was filmed. University president, David Boren, said in an emailed statement that the administration was also investigating the video. "I have just been informed of the video, which purports to show students to show students engaging in a racist chant. We are investigating to determine if the video involved OU students. If O.U. students are involved, this behavior will not be tolerated and will be addressed very quickly," said Boren. "This behavior is reprehensible and contrary to all of our values." Students marched on the campus of the University of Oklahoma on Monday to protest the video.
You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
SigEps are racists. Wait, frats in general are racists. No shit, Sherlock. PKA on my campus was 100% Jewish. If you weren't Jewish, you weren't getting in. Some were all white. Some all black. The entirety of the greek system is racism and sexism in action. Give me a break with your feigned outrage.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known. Even if they were exclusionary, as you suggest, actively seeking the company of those with similar background and actively mocking/hating/disrespecting others others is different.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a "Greek", and I never have been or wanted to be, but your characterization of them is not consistent with what I have known.
Neither was I, and I agree to a *small* extent. Mind you, I'm from Arkansas and it was a long time ago, but there were still frats (and sororities) that were, shall we say, a wee bit on the exclusionary side of things, and the exclusions were occasionally based on religion, skin color, ethnic origin...
As for TFA? As much as I myself detest racism and bigotry based on someone's religion/ethnicity/etc... Personally, I think they *should* be allowed to be total asshats about it. Seriously - as long as there's no assualt or other crimes against others, let them chant whatever the hell they want.
I say this for two reasons:
1) College is supposed to be a place where all viewpoints and ideas are explored - even the ugly and stupid ones. Freedom of speech should hold highest priority in such a place.
2) The video (and anything like it) can serve as an example to point at and instruct against; a competent prof can debate the racist activity into the dirt, in a setting that educates everyone else, and (hopefully) teaches the racists in question along the way.
By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place? You only make it more attractive to such a mindset.
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Insightful)
By kicking out the frat charter, you only drive the problem deeper underground... and where is the frickin' benefit in doing that among a body of kids that are going to be naturally rebellious in the first place? You only make it more attractive to such a mindset.
The charter is an endorsement by the university. There is a world of difference between endorsement and non-interference.
Those boys are free to continue their racist association all they want - they haven't been expelled, they haven't even been disciplined.
They just can't do it with the university's blessing.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
The SAE's only sin in the eyes of the university was to bring bad press. If the University of Oklahoma president truly meant it when he said that "we don't provide services for bigots" then the only fraternities on campus would be the ones dedicated to professions or academic achievement.
Re: (Score:3)
He actually made a rather compelling argument that suppressing that speech may be more harmful than refuting it. After all, if willingness to challenge fundamental axioms of knowledge isn't allowed in a college setting, then where would it be?
Racism is incredibly harmful. Suppression of ideas is harmfu
Re: (Score:3)
While the government has to tolerate and protect racist free speech, all kinds of other private organizations and businesses do not.
Last time I checked, the university in question is a government organization and the fraternity is a private one.
By kicking out the frat charter, you send a clear message that civilized society won't tolerate such behavior and being racist will have negative consequences.
Government imposed consequences on speech.
If you examine the greek system, you will find that 100% of fraternities and sororities practice discrimination based on legally protected classes. Not exactly 100%, but close enough. Once you find a frat that allows women to be members, then you can start looking for another form of discrimination. Or a sorority that hires men (I once told a sorority
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Insightful)
For the millionth time, nobody disallowed these assholes their freedom of speech. You can chant whatever racist things you want to chant, and you won't go to jail for it. You won't even be forced by a court to pay a fine.
However, freedom of speech doesn't mean "I get to say whatever I want and not face any consequences from society after I say it." If you're a racist asshole, and you make your racist assholery public, expect the public to treat you like a racist asshole. There's a reason these guys are only chanting that bullshit on a bus, and not out in the open in the quad. They know they're racist assholes, and they know if they spew this bullshit in public, they'll have to face repercussions. Which they now are. Exactly the right thing happened in this case.
Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the application of technology of various kinds to bring light to activities of an exclusive club that would not have otherwise remained secret. It's an application of pervasive surveillance technology combined with online services to publish the results of surveillance (or recording). It's also an interesting free speech question.
In the real 1984 it's not Big Brother you have to worry about.
Re: (Score:3)
It is if the following are true:
1.) You are reading this
2.) You're a nerd.
Re:Yeah but why is this on Slashdot? (Score:5, Informative)
I assume you're kidding, I'm missing it, and the WHOOSH! sound is about to happen, but...
Lambda Lambda Lambda, or "LLL" as the name for the black fraternity was simply a play on the KKK name for the Klan.
Re: (Score:3)
Why would the college have any reason to discipline the students, especially if this is a public college(I haven't checked what kind of school it is yet)...that would in a way be government censorship would it not (if it is publicly funded).
Freedom of speech kinda implies that there is no freedom from being offended....
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Insightful)
And blacks are entirely excluded from some cities because of ingrained prohibitions by real estate and landlords. Of course, that's not really true, there is no entire city that's this way, any more than there is even one entire city that whites can't enter because of threats of violence.
Framing things in black and white is just stupid. Black people are just as much threatened by violence in their neighborhoods as are whites who wander in.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, EVERY area on earth with a predominately black population is a poor violent ghetto.
In the Jamaican neighbourhoods in Toronto to Haitian enclaves in Montreal, the greatest danger you face is burning your tongue on some jerk chicken. In the Muslim banlieues in Paris, you're no more likely to face violence than anywhere else. In most of Africa—the vast majority of the 'black' world—you're safer than in any American city.
I live in a town that's 95% black. I don't even close the windows or lock the doors on my car at night. I can walk away from my bag containing $10K in photographic gear, and not even turn my head. The only thing I get tired of is people's friendliness and desire to chat all the time. True story: A young man stole a tourist's hand bag a while ago. The story made the front page of the newspaper. That's how rare crime is here.
In fact, you can pretty much trace violence in black American (North, Central and South) communities to the legacy of the slave trade, to racial inequality that has led to economic inequality and chronic injustice. There's a strong correlation there. In countries such as Brasil, where the economic inequality was not necessarily race-based, you find more equal-opportunity crime and predation. In Mexico and elsewhere, you find the problems exist primarily where indigenous people are clustered.
TL;DR: You don't have a clue what you're talking about, you ignorant fuckwit. Wilful ignorance such as yours only perpetuates the problem.
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Informative)
Don't you feel any shame?
It's trivial to expose your lies, it's even on Wikipedia:
Recently, gang-related incidents have been on the rise. Between the years of 1997 and 2005 over 300 gang-related deaths have occurred. [..] In late September 2005, Toronto police arrested 44 members of the Rexdale-based "Ardwick Blood Crew" also known as A.B.C.
Hmm, also according to Wikipedia, "Rexdale's first residents were mostly English and Scottish, but evolved into a multicultural neighbourhood in the following decades."
But there is more:
Then in May 2006, 106 additional gang members were apprehended, who were part of Rexdale's "Jamestown Crew" (a Crip gang), in the largest gang sweep in Toronto's history.
Hmm, what ethnicity could a gang be that is called "Jamestown Crew"?.... Hmmm, you will probably never know...
In June 2007, Toronto police arrested about 95 people, including leaders of the Jane and Finch-based "Driftwood Crips" and the sister of murder victim Jordan Manners, for a lengthy list of 700 criminal charges.
Aha, a "Crips" franchise gang. What ethnicity could that be... It's a mystery...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
We did that already - it's called "Detroit".
Re: (Score:3)
Because blacks commit more violent crime than all other races combined
You might want to check your numbers. [fbi.gov]
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure how it helps to oppose bigotry to create a false stereotype demonizing all fraternities and sororities. Seems like just another chapter of bigotry, to me.
Re: (Score:2)
I have attended or worked at four different universities at some point. At each one, SAE was considered to be the most undisciplined, anti-social, and exclusionary fraternity on campus. That's just my anecdote, I know, but I'm certainly willing to believe that they should be singled out for special condemnation.
Re: (Score:3)
SigEp is Sigma Phi Epsilon.
The accused Fraternity here is Sigma Alpha Epsilon.
(9 seconds of video? That's not enough to know the full context. What if the words just before were, "We'll never accept people who say," or something like that. This screams of Dowdification.)
Fraternities are just like any other group of self-chosen associates, they bond over commonalities. Some are all white, some are all black, some are all Engineers, some are all Jocks, whatever.
Prejudice and ignorance are fairly universal, as
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Free speech doesn't mean free from repercussion.
True - so let's make the repercussion equal to the transgression: ridicule, education against, and ostracism by the student body. I bet that after a month or so of being shunned and laughed at by the student body at large (and excluded from, oh I dunno... things like getting laid...), the students in question would have one very powerful incentive to straighten their act up. A couple of months later, the frat would likely die of member starvation (unless they publicly apologized, and demonstrated something
Re: (Score:3)
Remember what whats his name (Cramer from Seinfeld) had is 'nigger' rant on stage?
The disks that shipped the same week sold 3 times as many copies as the previous issue.
What if the frat became an open 'Stormfront' house?
Re: (Score:3)
The disks that shipped the same week sold 3 times as many copies as the previous issue.
Mostly by curious people who only got half the story on the evening news. Controversy (actual controversy as classically defined, mind) does that.
What if the frat became an open 'Stormfront' house?
So what if it does? The societal repercussions of belonging to such a thing would be detrimental enough that nearly everyone with at least two working neurons would avoid it. Eventually it, like the Klan, becomes some isolated group with an ever-shrinking number of nutjobs and idiots.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Informative)
Free speech does not extend to hate speech. No rights are being denied here, since you do not have the right to hate speech.
Huh? Where is "hate speech" defined in the Constitution? Hint.. It's not. This video does NOT depict speech that is illegal.
By law in the USA you can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law. That's not what these guys where doing.
That's not to say it wasn't stupid to do and even more stupid to record it on video, or that the college isn't justified in their actions and people shouldn't be outraged by this stuff. Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.
Re: (Score:3)
By law in the USA the government can only restrict speech that poses an imminent danger of unlawful action, where the speaker has the intention to incite such action and there is the likelihood that this will be the consequence of his or her speech, may be restricted and punished by that law.
Last I checked the Constitution only applies to the government. The /. admins could restrict anything they want to and not be against the law. Any private organization can censor the speech is within their property as they please. Now if this university receives government funds then it's a different story.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
These people's "free speech" is still intact.
No warrants have been issued, no one has been arrested, and no one is in jail.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is why nobody was arrested
Only that people are free to SAY (or even publish) just about anything, including this drivel, as a matter of law.
Yes, they are allowed to say whatever they want. And this univiersity has the right to tell them it's unacceptable and revoke their frat priveleges.
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't a free speech issue, it's not the government disbanding their frat. It's the college, which is perfectly within its rights to do so. No where in the constitution or the law does it say that the college has to allow this behaviour on its property if it doesn't want to.
I've noticed a lot of people calling for more freedom of speech tend to ignore the freedom of others to react freely to that speech. Not allowing on your property or boycotting people who say things you don't like is absolutely the right way to behave, and is your legally and constitutionally protected right.
Re: (Score:3)
That's not at all hate speech. Hate speech requires there to be a specific target. As well, I don't agree with your statement that no-one who says that believes it. The individuals who do believe that the Holocaust was a hoax may be disturbed, but they definitely do exist. True radicalism (as Neo-Nazi's and other Holocaust deniers tend to be), necessitates ardent belief. In the case of Antisemitism many feel such hatred and fear that they can convince themselves of beliefs or ideas that a normal person woul
Re:You don't say... (Score:5, Interesting)
Free speech does not extend to hate speech.
Yes it does.
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Insightful)
Free speech only extends to hate speech. "Freedom of agreeable speech" is nonsense. It's only deeply offensive speech that needs "freedom of" in the first place.
Re: (Score:2)
No, those fraternities hate all other races, and thats ok.
Are you fucking serious? So, "We're the master race." is okay but "Niggers are inferior." is not?!?
Racism is fucking racism. If you're going to call it out don't get selective about it.
Re: (Score:3)
I think the point is that Fraternities are often exclusionary by nature. A description that is not singular to white organizations.
Example: take a look at the Alpha Phi Alpha [alpha-phi-alpha.com] web site. This is one of the preeminent black fraternities in the US. An elite group of young men. The recently deceased ESPN sports caster and all-around great guy Stuart Scott was an Alpha when I was in school. At that time they were exclusively black and often quite ardent about that fact. I'm a long way from campus now, but
Wrong argument (Score:5, Insightful)
If the premise is false then the conclusion is most likely false. Similarly, if the premise is exclusionary then the conclusion will also be exclusionary. I do realize that "white males" are the favorite punching bag for claims of discrimination, but the point is that discrimination is everywhere and employed by all sorts of people. Women hating on men, blacks hating on whites, Christians hating on Muslims, Muslims hating on non-Muslims, etc.. etc..
The problem is exacerbated by media who keeps issues in the spotlights, occasionally even inventing them. This is one of many ways that the powerful remain in power.. by making us bicker with each other.
If you doubt that discrimination is universal then visit a place like Saudi Arabia carrying a Bible and wearing a cross. Go to Harlem, Detroit, Compton, etc.. if you are white. Tell just about anyone that you are Jewish if you are. That we make a big deal of these differences 2,500 years after we should know better is a different issue (referring to Plato's "The Republic").
Re:You don't say... (Score:4, Interesting)
"Racism describes a system of disadvantage based on race. Black people can't be racist" [youtube.com] - Dear White People
I'm not sure I entirely agree, but it is possible that there is a difference in the severity of an action depending on whether it is perpetrated by the advantaged against the disadvantaged, or the reverse.
For instance, in 1959 black people were excluded from libraries in Sourth Carolina. This undoubtedly contributed to a system of disadvantage based on race. Here's a heart warming video of a 9 year old Ronald McNair standing up for himself in 1959 [youtube.com]. Would white people have cared if a library was created in retaliation that excluded whites? They probably would have shrugged and laughed.
That said, I doubt that a black fraternity chanting about honkies would go unpunished. You are deluded if you think we live in a society where black people get away with shit
Re: (Score:3)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/03/09/ferguson-mo-judge-resigns/24673097/
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/03/black-america
http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/missouri-supreme-court-takes-over-cases-in-ferguson-judge-resigns/article_7442c87
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
As a sociologist, I am very interested in the work you've done that supports your findings that NOTHING has been done and no national attention has been given to a Black fraternity that chanted about honkies and crackers.
My colleagues and I eagerly await your reference link.
Thank you in advance.
Re: (Score:3)
Do you or any of the readers that modded your comment "Informative" have any evidence to back that up?
Secondly, even if that was the case, would 2 wrongs make a right? Shouldn't we make sure that the Black fraternity was punished instead of defending the other intolerant fraternities?
What else will Cameraphones ruin? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't believe the hype!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Haven't you heard?
Only white people can be racist. [sistahvegan.com]
Re: (Score:3)
When they say it, it's art. When anyone else says the exact same thing, it's a hate crime.
You can't play the us and them card both ways. That's kind of like saying the problem with unarmed blacks being shot by white police is that the police aren't shooting enough unarmed whites to compensate. Discriminatory rants are reprehensible, and any record company or educational institution that wants to distance themselves from conduct that paints the whole group as uneducated, crass, and antiquated is constitutionally allowed to do so.
In the meantime, get back to me when you have trouble being accepted
Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? (Score:4, Interesting)
So close... If they say it outside of a rap song they generally are condemned for it. People accept that songs are not always the writer's actual beliefs, even if the writer is white. Remember Dire Strait's Money for Nothing? The "little faggot with his own jet airplane"? I think most people accept that Knopfler was speaking as a character here, not expressing his own views.
Sometimes songs do go too far, and are rightly condemned for it. It's not black and white I'm afraid, that's just not the nature of human society.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm waiting for the gangsta rappers and make believe, wanna be thugs to be ruined for their racist, anti-gay, misogynistic, anti-social, violent cliched rants.
When those gangsta rappers and thugs become senators, company presidents, or the captains of industry and subsequently start imposing their views on their constituents / employees / industries, then you will have a point. But until those gangsta rappers and thugs have any kind of actual power imbued upon them by their standing as a majority, then your argument is meaningless and paints you as a racist idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
Seems like you can't be a racist bigot anymore without someone taping what you say and posting it online. How are good old boys clubs supposed to survive in the new millennium? Are we going to have more places demanding people surrender their cellphones before entering? Between this and dashcams and cop cameras it's getting really hard to get away with being a total shithead anymore. We're going to have to see some senators step up and propose legislation to protect the children and good old fashion values soon or it will be too late.
I solved that by using "Anonymous Coward" for all my public interactions, whether total shithead style or not.
Ok, well, I can't recall my ever not having been a shithead, but you can see the potential for the technique.
Re: (Score:2)
by clovis (4684) Alter Relationship on Monday March 09, 2015 @03:44PM (#49217993)
Its all over now, you screwed up!!!!
Re:What else will Cameraphones ruin? (Score:5, Insightful)
We will know that the persecution of Christians in America has finally ended when we get a Christian President. Or 44 of them in a row.
My two cents... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not all men are now magically racist, nor college students, nor frats. The system doesn't need to change. Everything worked as intended.
Personally, I don't think we need to make every event that happens into some huge debate over whether our culture is circling the drain and chanting, "There needs to be a law!".
That's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree, and I hope you have a good day.
Re: (Score:2)
That isn't the hammer of Justice, that is the Reality of the Public Discourse, the Natural Social Consequence of Freedom of Speech.
They spoke, other people reacted according to their established prerogatives. No Justice needed.
Re:My two cents... (Score:5, Insightful)
One problem there - In the US, you have every right to hold racist views. You can't act on them in certain protected contexts, but you can rant day in and day out about hating blacks or Jews or Asians or, yes, even Whites.
Now, I have no problem with the university choosing not to support a racist organization - If I attended OSU, I'd much rather the university disband the entire "Greek" system (see? I have a right to that particular prejudice, except I won't find myself homeless a week from now as a result). But talking about expulsion and searching frantically for actual crimes to charge them with, for singing a stupid racist song?
No. We need to collectively get a fucking grip, and move on. Stupid kids doing stupid things.
Re:My two cents... (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up!
They have the FIRST AMENDMENT right to say and chant anything they want. As long as they are not inciting a riot or stirring up violence or breaking the law by others, they have the right to hold any opinion and express that opinion.
What we need to realize is that this freedom of speech we have means that the other guy (or gal) has the right to offend me with their opinions, because if you restrict THEIR speech based upon your being offended, then there really is no freedom of speech anymore; you have the thought police then. We need thicker skins and a large doses of tolerance, not restrictions on speech.
Re:My two cents... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people act like clowns?
1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down. This was a slapdown by a private entity.
2) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. Act like a clown, expect them to slap a clown suit on you.
Re: (Score:3)
Why do folks keep on bringing up the First Amendment when people act like clowns?
1) the first amendment only prevents the government from slapping you down. This was a slapdown by a private entity.
2) Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. Act like a clown, expect them to slap a clown suit on you.
I'm not in disagreement with that. You are free to express your opinion about your boss by right, but your boss is free to fire you when you do.
What I'm saying is that folks need to slow down the knee jerk "there should be a law" reaction to this kind of stupidity and grow some thicker skin when you hear stuff like this. So freedom of speech means you will eventually be offended by somebody and we need to accept that, just as much as it doesn't mean the speaker is free from consequences.
Re:My two cents... (Score:5, Informative)
But talking about expulsion and searching frantically for actual crimes to charge them with, for singing a stupid racist song?
So, where does it say anything about criminal charges, or even expulsion? The are closing down the frat chapter. Beyond just being racist, this is probably what did them in the most, FTA:
The chant vows that African-Americans will “never” be allowed to join the campus chapter.
First off, it is illegal (though not criminally) to deny somebody admission to anything based on race. Secondly, they don't have to commit a crime to be banned, in general universities have policies and codes of conduct, and if you violate those you can be expelled. In this case it appears the frat is being closed down because they violated university policies, not because they committed crimes.
Re: (Score:3)
No, it is not illegal to deny somebody admission to anything based on race. It is illegal to deny employment or housing based on race, and if a place is open to the public (stores, restaurants, etc) you can't deny admission based on race, but there is nothing preventing a private organization from denying admission based on any criteria they choose.
Remember that in additional to freedom of speech you also have freedom of assembly, which means you get to choose who you will associate with. There are plenty
Also with regards to state schools (Score:4, Informative)
Clubs are held to a higher standard. The general student body can get away with a whole lot. You can go and have a racist rant out in public every day and so long as you aren't disruptive, threatening, etc then they can't do anything, they have to let you stay and if a teacher were to retaliate grade wise they could get in trouble. However clubs, like frats, have additional rules imposed on them if they wish to remain school recognized clubs. The school doesn't have to allow them, so they can choose what additional restrictions they face.
Now you are free to have a club not recognized by the campus, but then you won't be able to use campus facilities, participate in official campus events, and so on.
Re: (Score:3)
We don't necessarily know as much about the young men who did this as we might think, though.
Let me tell you a story that illustrates what I mean. On a recent trip to NYC, I was people-watching on the subway when I noticed something interesting. When women were traveling with with their women friends, their faces express a kind of delight in each others company. When you notice it, it's something quite striking and beautiful. So I started to look at the men to see if they ever did the same thing. Most of t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
not all white men are the heads of companies, running Fortune 500 companies, congressional officials, police chiefs, etc.
But very few non-white, non-men are.
That's why. It's not racism because when a black person calls you names to hurt your feelings, they also don't have the weight of systemic racial biases behind it. They call you names and that's it.
Re: (Score:3)
"It's not racism because when a black person calls you names to hurt your feelings"
Bullshit. It's socially accepted racism.
Re: (Score:3)
Systemic racism? That'll be why every company I work for prefers to employ people from the Indian subcontinent.
Systemic sexism? It's legal in this country to discriminate against men, the courts give men harsher sentences for the same crimes, school teachers give boys lower marks for the same work, men die younger, men work longer hours, the government spends less on male healthcare.. you want me to fucking continue or are you going to start bleating about this mythical 'male privilege' that allegedly exist
Re: (Score:3)
I'm not homosexual, and I don't use the term queer - the ignorant fucks bullying me did.
I'm sure that prejudice and discrimination are out there but I've still never seen anti-lgbt policies at any company, or government organisation. I have seen sexist anti-male ones but no racist ones.
You know why? Because this society doesn't tolerate bigotry (except sadly feminist misandry) and although there are idiots everywhere they come in all races, genders and gender preferences. Nobody gets a free ride through lif
Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control (Score:5, Insightful)
Right. Because chanting "you can hang them from a tree" is more or less equivalent to calling a white person a cracker.
Note, the above is sarcasm, which usually doesn't come through on the internet.
Re: (Score:3)
Your first "example" is actually lifted from a parody originally performed by Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live in 1982. I saw it the first time it ran.
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This is also a university, not society at large. As such there can be different rules on speech. A black fraternity doing the same thing would not get away with it on any campus.
Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control (Score:5, Insightful)
Black racism is "socially accepted." Some drunk white dude says the N word under his breath, and the AG, President, race-baiting Sharpton and Jackson shows up, and the entire white population is put in the same bucket as a drunk frat boy.
Blacks calling whites crackers, making fun of them in rap music, ostracizing and subjecting whites to crime in "their" neighborhoods and constantly falsely accusing whites as being racists and "the man" and keeping them down,etc.
Dude, black fatigue. Im sick of it. And I'm sick of the horrible near totality of racism blacks have for whites and nobody calls them on it. Black racism and black racketeering to milk the system AND keep the majority of blacks on the modern welfare plantation is more of a policy of those the blacks vote for and their own broken fatherless homes and broken crime-ridden graffiti-ridden communities than anything whites do.
Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites.
You're a fool.
When any black person can make a phone call to the Police, give them a _description_ of a generic white person, and put innocent white lives at risk, talk me to death about the social acceptance of black racism. When enough blacks are in positions of management to deny white people opportunities because they feel that for arbitrary reasons, they just don't fit in, talk me to death about the social acceptance of black racism. When white people feel compelled to alter their natural appearance chemically or otherwise to "appear acceptable" or otherwise "make it in a corporate America", talk me to death about the acceptance of black racism.
The bottom line is despite supposedly being "equal" and ENTITLED TO "equal treatment under the law" SO SAYETH the CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES, black survival in America is STILL largely dependent upon the comfort level whites have with them. While many whites today may not be the racists that their ancestors living A MERE GENERATION AGO were (and make no mistake there remain plenty of whites who ARE EVERY BIT the racists their ancestors were), THIS ESSENTIAL FACT is as true today as it was during SLAVERY.
>>>>Blacks kill more blacks by far than whites.
To assert that blacks kill more blacks by far than whites is meaningless and stupid due to the fact that people commit crimes where they LIVE. White people kill more of each other by far than blacks kill whites... and in China, Chinese people kill more of each other by far than whites OR blacks kill Chinese. That's the easy observation made by people who ride the short bus and watch Faux News. They're also typically the same people who claim to want a small government with a BIG MILITARY empowered to make laws governing the _social_ behavior of everyone else.
I'll say this, and say it daring anyone to challenge it:
Black people in America are amongst THE MOST PEACEFUL PEOPLE within its borders.
How can I say that? Because if white people were subjected to a TINY FRACTION of the bullsh*t they've subjected black people to OVER HUNDREDS OF YEARS AND CONTINUING TO THIS VERY DAY, they'd have burned this country to the ground a long time ago. America itself was essentially founded over a TAX DISPUTE, just imagine if the English had been forcing the colonists to work from sun-up to sun-down for free while denying them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS?
YET AND STILL, despite the slight, the wrong, or the indignity, BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PEACEFUL PROTEST. Al Sharpton comes to your town to _DISCUSS_ HIS GRIEVANCES. Black people are ALWAYS talking about DEMONSTRATING PEACEFULLY... and WHY NOT? IN AMERICA, BLACK PEOPLE IMPORTED THE CONCEPT OF PEACEFUL PROTEST. They looked to Ghandi and thought: GREAT IDEA! In contrast, what happens when white people feel slighted? THEY ARE USUALLY THE FIRST TO REACH FOR THEIR GUNS, to SING THE PRAISES OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT, and to threaten violence against this government for supposedly infringing upon their freedom (mainly to be assh*les to everyon
Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control (Score:4, Interesting)
When white people feel compelled to alter their natural appearance chemically or otherwise to "appear acceptable" or otherwise "make it in a corporate America", talk me to death about the acceptance of black racism.
Clearly you know fuck all about being white then. You think I _want_ to wear this fucking suit, have this fucking haircut? Have you seen the shit people go through if they have a tattoo? Do you realise that every fucking woman in Manchester wears fake tan because otherwise they're too fucking white?
make no mistake there remain plenty of whites who ARE EVERY BIT the racists their ancestors were
Sadly this is true. Equally sad is how fucking racist so many non-white Amercians are too. Bigotry does not excuse bigotry.
Black people in America are amongst THE MOST PEACEFUL PEOPLE within its borders.
Crime statistics do not agree with you, even after adjusting for location.
Adjusting for wealth, possibly, and skin colour is not the determining factor, but the correlation is absolutely fucking there.
, just imagine if the English had been forcing the colonists to work from sun-up to sun-down for free while denying them their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS?
So who has made you, your siblings, your parents or your friends work from sun-up to sun-down for free, with or without basic human rights? Just that, my ancestors were enslaved by the Romans, and then by the Vikings, and then by Barbary Pirates, and I'm not using any of that as an excuse for racism or bigotry.
BLACK PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PEACEFUL PROTEST
You seem to be entirely disregarding entire subcultures across America. See a post above for some example song lyrics that don't seem to gel with your hypothesis.
is it black people that have a history of hanging white people by their necks from trees or white people who have a history of hanging black people by their necks from trees?
Look you racist fuck, I haven't hung anybody from a tree. Stop stereotyping based on race you bigoted twat.
(Apply that response to your other inane unnecessary bullshit examples - and do try not to pretend that this is all one-way traffic)
Black people have endured and continue to endure all of this NONSENSE and yet at their angriest, they typically want to MARCH about it. No talk about the 2nd amendment, NO talk about shooting their oppressors in the name of FREEDOM. No news-er-uh propaganda channel dedicated to spurring them on..
I fail miserably to see how this excuses racism. You are not making a valid point. You are not justifying the bigoted bullshit you're spouting.
The majority of people using social programs? White people. There are far more whites in the trailer park using food stamps than blacks in the ghetto, and far more trailer parks than ghettos.
There are far more white people than black people in America, it's hardly surprising that there are more of them in a given social strata.
Do the same comparison on a percentage population basis by race, see if you get the same results.
Even then, don't be using this to justify racism. Shit, a lot of deprived black neighbourhoods consider an attempt to get educated and break the cycle of poverty a betrayal and something to mock. Rail against that primitive attitude if you want to do something useful.
The primary beneficiary of affirmative action programs? White women. White women have benefitted far more from "the system" than all other minorities put together.
Affirmative action is discrimination and should be banned. I fucking hate it, and if you think white women gain the most from it, trust me, white men lose the fucking most from it. It's actually legal to discriminate against white men and you think black people have the problems?!
Black racism? THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? Really? Seriously? Kill yourself.
No. I'd rather kill the racist. But save me the bother, you live in a country with a high incidence of self-inflicted firearm injuries, be my guest.
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Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's try again. Would you say that, as mentioned above, black culture in the US has a different license to rant and chant racist nonsense without the same consequences as other groups? Yes or no. Do you concede that there is a double standard, or will you just say Fox! Fox! Fox! in order to avoid addressing that unfortunate reality?
Re:My two cents... Black Racism is out of Control (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:My two cents... (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize that the 'hammer of justice' came from their own organization, right? You also realize that they used the name of the organization in their stupid little chant, which reflects very poorly on the organization, right?
What is 'disproportionate' about the organization not wanting to be associated with these morons?
In other words... (Score:2)
Sunday night on the Row.
Bad from the top down (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure SAE is bad from the top down [wikipedia.org]:
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Re:Bad from the top down (Score:4, Informative)
9 deaths in 9 years? Is that supposed to be shocking?
Most fraternities and sororities have no deaths in nine years. Rather than drinking too much beer, the SAE kids that I knew were nouveau-riche who preferred to party by snorting blow off Peruvian hookers.
Last I looked at the student newspaper, they were continuing in the same mould.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:so for clarification (Score:5, Informative)
those who would rather cling tenaciously to racism, sexism, homophobia and xenophobia
Rappers?
Hey, lovely little slashdot racists (Score:3)
Just from what's in the another post I read, I'd say that they were not "merely" racist, but threatening. I mean, that is the South, home to the KKK that murdered a hell of a lot for the "crime" of being black. That makes them dangerous.
And, of course, it's the kind of crap I'd expect from the majority of Greeks - classiism, racism, you-have-to-be-worth-money-to-get-in.... They've never had much of a rep beyond party, drinking, etc, and this goes back to my first time in college, long before most of you were born.
I see no reason to make Greeks part of the official college landscape. Most of 'em have nothing to do with actual learning... which is, allegedly, what you're paying that money for.
mark
Actually, they were right.... (Score:5, Funny)
They vowed that African-Americans will "never" be allowed to join the campus chapter, and they stayed true to that vow by getting the chapter closed down.
Not that for a second I condone such attittudes, just saying that from a purely literalist standpoint, they certainly weren't lying.
The scariest part... (Score:3, Insightful)
The scariest part of this, to me, is the sheer number of people, who chose to post here anonymously...
Clearly, the fear of being prosecuted for thought-crimes is wide-spread... Among Whites.
"thought-crimes" (Score:4)
On thing is for certain: The people in the video are quite safe from charges of thought crime.
I think we can safely say there was damn little intelligent thought happening there.
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As with "superior" soy sauce, it doesn't mean it is better, just that it fermented longer. You can tell the difference with just your nose.
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Or creating strawmen, right?
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You don't have to be a True Scotsman to build a perfect strawman, but the Celts did basically invent it, and none of this modern stuff compares.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W... [wikipedia.org]
Oh, wait, oops, the story was just a Straw Man.
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Considering the Scots had yet to invade England when Caeser wrote his commentaries, I'm afraid your straw man is no true Scotsman.
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The weird idea that Celts were limited to Scotland is very modern. The Celts building the wicker men, including both the ones Caesar saw, and the ones he made up, were all from much farther south than Scotland. And the Scots wouldn't cross over from Ireland for another millennia.
I'll give you a hint, though: a Scot is a type of Celt. A Celt is not a type of Scot. And not necessarily a Scotsman, either.
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Let's face the truth no matter their color racists are dick's.
If there is one thing on the planet we could all live without it would be the racists of all colors.
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A public university does not have to support all forms of speech. When you go to that school you typically sign a document stating you will limit your behavious to a set appropriate of being in that institution, a code of conduct, and that is legally enforceable. You could say that like the military you sign away some of your rights when you go the school for the duration of time you are in the school.
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I guess the proto-Republicans don't fall far from their daddy's apple tree.
Remind me again which party was the one perpetuating segregation and doing everything possible at the legislative and executive level in the south to prevent the progress of the civil rights movement? Oh, right, it was democrats. Remind me again which movement was championing mandatory sterilization of inferior women, eugenics, and other charming Master Race type strategies? Oh, right, it was the founding Progressives - a group that to this day is absolutely obsessed with labeling people, keeping minoritie
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It's a shame, it really is.
If more people thought this way perhaps there would be a greater sense of urgency to get off the gov payroll.
Re: Wow... (Score:5, Informative)
Fact: The Republican Party was founded primarily to oppose slavery, and Republicans eventually abolished slavery. The Democratic Party fought them and tried to maintain and expand slavery. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress.
Why is this indisputable fact so rarely mentioned? PBS documentaries about slavery and the Civil War barely mention it, for example. One can certainly argue that the parties have changed in 150 years (more about that below), but that does not change the historical fact that it was the Democrats who supported slavery and the Republicans who opposed it. And that indisputable fact should not be airbrushed out for fear that it will tarnish the modern Democratic Party.
Had the positions of the parties been the opposite, and the Democrats had fought the Republicans to end slavery, the historical party roles would no doubt be repeated incessantly in these documentaries. Funny how that works.
Fact: During the Civil War era, the "Radical Republicans" were given that name because they wanted to not only end slavery but also to endow the freed slaves with full citizenship, equality, and rights.
Yes, that was indeed a radical idea at the time!
Fact: Lincoln's Vice President, Andrew Johnson, was a strongly pro-Union (but also pro-slavery) Democrat who had been chosen by Lincoln as a compromise running mate to attract Democrats. After Lincoln was assassinated, Johnson thwarted Republican efforts in Congress to recognize the civil rights of the freed slaves, and Southern Democrats continued to thwart any such efforts for close to a century.
Fact: The 14th Amendment, giving full citizenship to freed slaves, passed in 1868 with 94% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress. The 15th Amendment, giving freed slaves the right to vote, passed in 1870 with 100% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress.
Regardless of what has happened since then, shouldn't we be grateful to the Republicans for these Amendments to the Constitution? And shouldn't we remember which party stood for freedom and which party fiercely opposed it?
Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "ni**er-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.
Why is this fact conveniently omitted in so many popular histories and depictions of the KKK, including PBS documentaries? Had the KKK been founded by Republicans, that fact would no doubt be repeated constantly on those shows.
Fact: In the 1950s, President Eisenhower, a Republican, integrated the US military and promoted civil rights for minorities. Eisenhower pushed through the Civil Rights Act of 1957. One of Eisenhower's primary political opponents on civil rights prior to 1957 was none other than Lyndon Johnson, then the Democratic Senate Majority Leader. LBJ had voted the straight segregationist line until he changed his position and supported the 1957 Act.
Fact: The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress. In the House, 80 percent of the Republicans and 63 percent of the Democrats voted in favor. In the Senate, 82 percent of the Republicans and 69 percent of the Democrats voted for it.
Fact: Contrary to popular misconception, the parties never "switched" on racism. The Democrats just switched from overt racism to a subversive strategy of getting blacks as dependent as possible on government to secure their votes. At the same time, they began a cynical smear campaign to label anyone who opposes their devious strategy as greedy racists.
Following the epic civil rights struggles of the 1960s, the South began a major demographic shift from Democratic to Republican dominance. Many believe that this shift was motivated by racism. While it is certainly true that many Southern racists abandoned the Democratic Party over
Re: Wow... (Score:5, Interesting)
So... what's your view on the Voting Rights Act being recently gutted and the overnight movement towards voter suppression in several republican states?
Separately, I don't think either party is (inherently) racist. I think they simply pander to different socio-economic demographics. However, in certain sections of the country, I do think that republicans hang a big, loud "you're not welcome here" sign for anyone they don't see as a potential constituent.
Re: Wow... (Score:4, Insightful)
African Americans routinely vote well over 90 percent Democratic for fear that Republicans will cut their government benefits and welfare programs.
Interesting historical facts which I accept on face value, but then you fuck it up by claiming you can read the minds of blacks.
Before LBJ's Great Society welfare programs, the black illegitimacy rate was as low as 23 percent, but now it has more than tripled to 72 percent.
My first child, now 35, was technically illegitimate. I ask you the same question I asked my parents in 1979 - Why is that a problem?
Every political party has its racists.
You should have stopped there, the rest of your post is just a twisted apology for your own political party.
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Not as an open matter of policy though.
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