Swedish Authorities Offer To Question Assange In London 169
An anonymous reader writes: Since 2012, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been holed up inside Ecuador's embassy in London trying to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he faces a sexual assault investigation. Now, after the case has been stalled for years, Swedish prosecutors are arranging to come to London and question Assange within the embassy. According to his lawyer, Assange welcomes this, but Sweden still needs to be granted permission from both the UK and Ecuador. "Assange's lawyers, who are appealing against his arrest warrant in Sweden's highest court, have complained bitterly about the prosecutor's refusal to travel to London to speak to him – an essential step under Swedish jurisprudence to establish whether Assange can be formally charged. [Lead investigator Marianne] Ny's refusal, they say, has condemned Assange to severe limitations on his freedom that are disproportionate to the accusations against him." Ny has also requested a DNA sample from Assange.
Don't take any drinks they offer you! (Score:1, Funny)
Don't take any drinks they offer you, or presents (especially ones with suspicious round holes and openings marked "mic").
As someone who was once on the Cosby Show, trust me on this.
culture trap (Score:5, Funny)
Re:culture trap (Score:5, Funny)
A legal Aussie date is felonious pretty much anywhere else.
Re:culture trap (Score:5, Informative)
But only in Sweden is regret considered retroactive rape.
No. At most universities in the US, regret can also be considered retroactive rape. See the Emma Sulkowicz case at Columbia University.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/03/columbia-student-i-didn-t-rape-her.html [thedailybeast.com]
Mod Parent: Bullshit (Score:1)
Mods, if you have *any* interest in this story, there is plenty more detail to this story that you can read over here [jezebel.com].
Please don't
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And as we all know, jezebel.com is definitely a non-biased site and always presents facts in a 100% neutral light, with no spin whatsoever. Just like FoxNews.
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There was an investigation and he was cleared. In that case regret very clearly was not considered rape. Your link demonstrates the opposite of the claim you are making.
What your link does show is that there are issues around anonymity for the accused and trial by media, but very clearly the university does not consider regret to be retroactive rape.
Re:culture trap (Score:5, Informative)
F*ing a sleeping girl is to work around her refusal to consent to one's preferred form of sex - entry #4 on Assange's EAW - is rape in almost every jurisdiction in the first world. And the UK court system has - at multiple levels - upheld that all four entries on the EAW match up to equivalent British charges. And a full court hearing in the Svea Court of Appeals, including testimony from Assange's attorneys, has gone over the evidence and found probable cause on all four counts. Heck, one of Assange's attorneys (Emerson) all but admitted that he did it [bethgranter.com].
Sweden actually has rather unusually lax penalties in this regard compared to most places. If Assange was convicted of doing that in DC then he'd be facing a 10x longer maximum sentence than in Sweden. In fact, Sweden's rape laws in general are pretty lax. There was a rape case a while back where a teenage girl was gang-raped by a group of three men; however, only the first could be charged because, having been beaten into submission by him, she had stopped resisting by the time that the other two got to her.
Anyway, for the case at hand here, it's amazing that the Slashdot header didn't mention the actual stated reason why the prosecutor is doing this: because the statute of limitations on some of the lesser charges** runs out this year (the statute on the rape charge** doesn't run out until 2020). Thus he has to be indicted**, of which this questioning is a legal requirement (he's only been questioned on some of the charges before he fled***, all other communication has been through Q and A via his attorneys). This will pose some challenges, as in general in Sweden, once indicted**, there's a time limit on when the case must go to trial, but if he still refuses to hand himself over, he could run this out. But the prosecutor's office may be able to extend that, we'll have to see.
** I use here "charged" in the case of "anklagad" and "indict" in the case of "åtala". They don't exactly match up to English words, and a lot of Assange fans like to play this word game where they say he's not been "charged" and use that as an excuse for why he should be able to go free. But in Sweden, the process is that one gets formally anklagad by the processor and a judge issues a warrant (following the same sort of process as a charged person in the US or UK), and then once in custody and sufficient evidence has been gathered for prosecution, they're åtalad, which brings the case to trial. You're anklagad to get you in custody, åtalad to try to convict you.
*** Yes, he did flee. The claim that Assange was "free to go" as promulgated by Björn Hurtig, a former attorney of Assange's. He tried that same line in court and got smacked down by the judge for trying to deceive the court, and then got an official reprimand from the Swedish Bar Association [thelocal.se].
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Don't interrupt the Assange circle jerk with your facts.
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In this case the facts here have nothing to do with Assange or rape, the fact here is the United States government after recent rather lethal shenanigans in Europe ie the Ukraine, in now on the out and Sweden just wants to make this particular political eye sore disappear and move on, along with creating a bit of political distance between itself and the bas ole US of A.
Yes, that's the claim of the prosecutor. (Score:2, Insightful)
Not the claim in court, however. They'd had sex, she says in her testimony (one of the two women) she was sleepy when he started foreplay, and waking to full arousal, they had full sex. She never claimed she was woken by intercourse.
Moreover, after that morning's sex, she went out to the shops, did some shopping, came back and made breakfast for them both. Later she tweeted about how great Assange was and the sex was good.
This does not sound like rape.
Unless you're trying to work out how it MUST be rape, ei
Re:Yes, that's the claim of the prosecutor. (Score:5, Informative)
Once again, Assange fans demonstrate their total ignorance of everything related to the case.
"They dozed off and she awoke and felt him penetrating her." - SW's testimony
"After that, SW told HR that she was feeling worse and worse. She said that the problem was that Assange had had unprotected sex with her while she was sleeping. SW also said that Assange had nagged her and tried to have unprotected sex with her during the night, but that she had made him wear a condom. SW had told Assange several times to wear a condom. SW also told HR that Assange had spoken so strangely, as though he wanted SW to become pregnant. He said things that sounded like he wanted to make women pregnant. He reportedly said that he preferred virgins, because then he would be the first to make them pregnant." -- HR's testimony (friend of SW since childhood)
"SW had said that Assange wanted to have sex with her, and that SW had said that she did not want to have sex without a condom. SW also said that, when she was half asleep on her side, she had been aroused from slumber to feel that Assange was inside her. SW had then asked him what he was wearing and he had replied, “I am wearing you”. The witness said that SW did not believe that he had entered her; rather, she had been aroused from slumber when he was already inside her." - KS's testimony (close colleague of SW)
"He learned about what had happened from SW and his mother. The latter had said that Julian had sex with SW without a condom and against her will as she slept." - KW's testimony (SW's brother)
"Then Sofia said that she had been raped by Julian Assange, in that he had initiated unprotected sex with her while she lay sleeping." - SB's testimony (old friend and one time boyfriend of SW)
Where does your ridiculous "she was just sleepy" claim come from? It's an echo-chamber morphing of a claim from Assange's attorney, which was based on the "half asleep" line in KS's testimony. But KS continued, "she had been aroused from slumber to feel that Assange was inside her."
False. There was shopping and breakfast - but it came before the reported assault. Here's the descriptions of that from the leaked testimony:
"Earlier, she had fetched some condoms and laid them on the floor by the bed. He reluctantly agreed to use a condom, although he muttered that he preferred her to latex. He no longer had an erection problem. At one point when he took her from behind, she turned to look at him and smiled and he asked her why she was smiling, what had she to smile about. She did not like the undertone of his voice. They fell asleep, and when they woke up they may have had sex again; she does not really remember. He ordered her to fetch him some water and orange juice. She did not like being ordered about in her own home, but thought “what the hell” and fetched the liquids anyway. He wanted her to go out and buy more breakfast. She did not want to leave him alone in the flat — she really did not know him very well — but she did it anyway. When she left the flat he lay naked in her bed and was fiddling with one of his telephones. Before she left she said, “Be good'”. He replied: “Don't worry, I'm always bad”. When she returned she served him oatmeal porridge, milk, and juice. She had already eaten before he awoke, and had spoken with a friend on the phone." - SW's testimony
"While sleeping on the night of the episode, MT was awakened by an SMS message from SW. MT's recollection of that message is that it was not positive — that the sex was not goo
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The claims of her being sleepy comes from her own SMS history.
Sofia Wiléns testimony was edited by Irmeli Krans by order of Mats Gehlin, as shown by SMS's sent from Mats Gehlin to Irmeli Krans. Irmeli Krans also being a personal friend of Anna Ardin, and politically tied to Marianne Ny, Claes BorgstrÃm and Anna Ardin, as part of BroderskapsrÃrelsen within Socialdemokraterna.
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Take your echo chamber info and believe whatever you want. But you're not an f'ing court of law. There's one place for this to be resolved, and that a court of law. Which requires an end to this run from the law.
It certainly appears that you have researched this case quite a lot, which is fine and interesting (I wonder what your motivations are for this). I just wanted to point out, however, that the comment you made above applies to you as well. You cannot judge the guilt of JA any more than the "echo chamber info" people, and should preface all of your comments in this regard with a disclaimer along the lines of, "this is my prejudiced and biased opinion". Having "researched the facts" does not mean that you have
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If between 6 and 13% of all men have committed a rape, what's your proposed solution? Lock up between 22 million and 48 million people?
What happens when you let them out? You've just created between 22 and 48 million people who are now on the sex offenders list and cannot get a job or reintegrate. What do you think they are going to do now?
Oh, so you want to kill them or lock them up for life? What do you think 22 to 48 million men will do when you come for them with the intention of giving them a sham
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You are so obviously biased, I wonder if you are a paid shill for the US. I don't know what axe you have to grind against Assange, but your tissue of mis truths and distortions is blatant. The charges are ridiculous, and a reflection of how political influence cab be used by a government to blacken the name of a good man.
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Unless you're trying to work out how it MUST be rape, either
a) because the accusation cannot be allowed to be questioned, since that's telling a woman who claimed she was raped is wrong.
b) because Assange must be evil, because WL only exposes hateful things done by the USA, not any other country.
False rape allegations happen a lot.
The girl has not accused him of rape. She wanted him to have a STD test, and asked the police if they could force him. A Swedish DA decided to take the case and press rape charges, though the girl denies being raped.
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The girl has not accused him of rape. She wanted him to have a STD test, and asked the police if they could force him. A Swedish DA decided to take the case and press rape charges, though the girl denies being raped.
No. She did not initially accuse him of rape. Rape victims are very often in denial and the law allows for people to change their minds. It's how the great majority of child rape cases are prosecuted as children are very reluctant to blame adults. It only becomes rape if in addition to the accusal, conditions & the relevant laws are satisfied.
That won't stop some of Assange's cheerleaders from continuing to claim that she never accused him of rape as in their eyes, the man can do no wrong.
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You sound like you're very familiar with Swedish law - wish I had some mod points to give you.
Question for you: under US law, the statute of limitations doesn't run if you stay out of the jurisdiction for the clear purpose of running out the clock. Same for the right to a speedy trial if you're already indicted. So, you can't just hide to run out the clock. It sounds like Swedish law is different...
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Pretty damn funny comment, since the reason I don't have any mod points is that I had just used them up. Karma's excellent, thanks.
Re:culture trap (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll add that I am curious as to whether anyone has managed to negotiate with Ecuador conditions in which they would hand him over.
I was recently pondering over a potential situation where both Ecuador and Sweden could get their sides met. Let's remember, Ecuador's side is to play up "We're protecting him from the evil imperialists in the US, and won't give him up unless we can be guaranteed that you won't honor any extradition request from the US". Sweden's is "We're not going to let someone who our courts system declared a probable rapist just walk without a trial, and nor are we going to promise to break our extradition law if a valid extradition request from the US was received, never mind that our law doesn't even allow for extradition for intelligence crimes". There's a bit of undertone of mutual disrespect in both cases. In Sweden's case, the undertone is along the lines of "We're a nation of laws, not of kangaroo courts bullied by the executive like you", while in Ecuador's case it's along the lines of "We're not your f*ing colony to order around, we make our own decisions, deal with it."
But there may be a way that both to get out of this with what they want.
Ecuador could charge Assange with a crime - say, hacking a server in Ecuador, and Assange could admit to it, providing all of the evidence they need to justify an extradition request. The extradition request could be filed concurrently with Sweden taking Assange into custody. Hence Ecuador's extradition request would have priority over any subsequent extradition requests from any third state (such as the US). The Swedish case, operating under the auspices of an EAW, would take priority. Whether he was convicted or not, whenever the Swedish legal system was done with him his extradition request would come into force before he could be set free. Normally both the UK and Sweden would have to approve an extradition request to a third state, both their courts and governments. But a consent to be extradited short circuits all of that, so if Assange consented to be extradited to Ecuador, it would be automatic. The US could file extradition requests with Sweden or Ecuador, but of course Sweden would never have a chance to serve it (having surrendered him to Ecuador in the order of precedence), and Ecuador would never honor such a request from the US.
Once in Ecuador, Assange could deny the charges that got him there and Ecuador could decide to drop the case for a lack of evidence.
It may be a bit distasteful for Ecuador to have to charge their guest with an extraditable offense, Correa might lose a bit of face for having to take that route. But I think he'd gain more face than he lost, with the means being seen as justifiable for the end.
Re:culture trap (Score:5, Interesting)
By "the history", you mean "the one case a decade and a half ago where Egypt lied to Sweden and told them that two people were convicted terrorists and promised to treat them well, getting them deported on the flight that Egypt arranged with the CIA", a case that caused such an uproar that the two were given residence, large financial compensation packages, and EU extradition law in general was changed so that countries had to have a history of upholding their promises for extradition to be allowed to proceed? The case that led to such an anti-rendition backlash in Sweden that in in 2006 Sweden had their special forces [swedishwire.com] disguise themselves as airport workers to board a CIA jet and stop the extradition program from going through their territory, causing a major diplomatic incident with the US? A case that was exposed by.. wait for it.... Wikileaks!
While no country is perfect, Sweden has the #1 ranking in the world [worldjusticeproject.org] for the rights of the accused by the peer-reviewed World Justice Project. They have the world's best protections for whistleblowers - it's not even legal to investigate who leaked information in most cases, let alone prosecute. Assange thought so much of Sweden that he was moving there and setting up a new Wikileaks base of operations there - that's why he was in Sweden. He repeatedly called Sweden his shield, he thought so much of them. Right up until he was accused of rape, when suddenly Sweden magically transformed into an evil US lackey. Funny how that works.
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Don't forget that Sweden prosecuted the Pirate Bay founders due to pressure from the US government, at the behest of US corporations. It's all been well documented and leaked.
Governments are made up for many different parts, not all of them on the same page or with the same goals and values. Clearly one part didn't like US rendition flights, but another was happy to bring prosecutions and pervert Swedish justice on behalf of it. Given that the US has already demonstrated some control over the Swedish govern
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Oh don't even try. Rei is the most aggressive Assange hater Slashdot has ever seen because she was a victim herself once and so has decided that a man accused is a man automatically guilty, and that it's her quest to ensure all accused many are treated as such.
She was pushing the lie that the Swedish prosecutor couldn't question him over here because Swedish law wouldn't allow it even after the Swedish courts said in response to Assange appeal that they could and that it was odd that they hadn't.
I'm amazed
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Probably exactly as many of the Egyptian perpetrators who were Swedish citizens.
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Forgot to link a reference to the statute of limitations part: link [aklagare.se]
That's straight from the prosecutor's office website. Strange how much coverage of this decision hasn't mentioned this basic fact.
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I guess most of us (yes, I'm Swedish) find it much more plausible that the decision came after the court having told the prosecutor that she did not fulfil the reasonability requirement for handling the investigation.
That happened this Tuesday.
På tisdagen bestämde Högsta domstolen att Riksåklagaren ska skicka in en svarsskrivelse i målet. Riksåklagaren ska där förklara hur utredningsarbetet ska fortsätta – speciellt när det gäller frågan om p
Re:culture trap (Score:5, Interesting)
They have offered from the beginning to allow Ny to either question him in London, or to do it via teleconference, both of which Swedish law allows. Even the Swedish press and non-NyD MPs have started ridiculing Ny for her stubborn refusal to do so.
Heck, one of Assange's attorneys (Emerson) all but admitted that he did it.
Why wouldn't they? Anna Ardin never accused him of rape, just wanted to force him to get tested for STDs. She has even tweeted since then that he never raped her. Why would Assange or his lawyers bother denying facts that no one disputes?
before he fled
Slight correction there - After the first prosecutor cleared him, and Ny stalled for weeks, Assange asked permission to go to London, which Ny granted (and then immediately issued an international arrest warrant to generate as much worldwide publicity as possible).
The claim that Assange was "free to go" as promulgated by BjÃrn Hurtig, a former attorney of Assange's.
The chief magistrate of Assange's extradition hearing (who originally voted to extradite) has publicly stated that he incorrectly applied a law that effectively tied his hands into approving the extradition, and would have voted against it otherwise. Unfortunately for Assange, that really doesn't matter, because the UK has chosen to interpret him seeking asylum as breach of bail - Though in some sort of alice-in-wonderland loop of logic, amusingly enough, that doesn't count as a criminal offense in the UK, it just allows forfeiture of the bail itself and taking the accused into custody pending trial. Except, he doesn't face trial because Sweden hasn't actually charged him because (as you point out) they can't charge him without interviewing him, which Ny has refused to do until now.
If he didn't legitimately fear the
Re:culture trap (Score:4, Insightful)
Which would be relevant if this was some sort of "information gathering phase". It is not. They have a court finding (upheld on review) of probable cause of all four charges. According to the sworn statement of the prosecutor to the UK courts, "Subject to any matters said by him, which undermine my present view that he should be indicted, an indictment will be launched with the court thereafter. It can therefore be seen that Assange is sought for the purpose of conducting criminal proceedings and that he is not sought merely to assist with our enquiries."
As usual with most assange fans, you're so ignorant of the actual case that you don't even know the bloody charges. There are no rape charges concerning AA. The charges concerning AA are 1-3 on the EAW, the most significant of which is "unlawful sexual coersion", which matches AA's statements, including her most recent (late last year), referring to what happened to her as an assault but not rape. #4 concerns SW. AA's one public statement shortly after the case came out, and the many statements in the leaked police testimony (of which is just a fraction of the total testimony, more was collected after that), was that she went to the police with SW to provide support for SW's accusation of rape, but that what happened to her did not amount to rape. The charges are in line with this.
You're also mixing up all sorts of other stuff in that statement. Her statements about what happened to her in the press and in the police testimony weren't tweets. The "tweet" thing most people talk about were tweets she made during the period in which Assange was living with her. But they're almost always misquoted. The main one misrepresented is usually the one about going to the crayfish party, where she talks about being at a party with the "world's most amazing people". The police interviewed people who went to the party. One of them, KB, testified that AA had complained to her at the party about the "violent" (her words) sex with Assange.
Once again, I'll repeat: there are no rape charges related to AA. So it's a moot point anyway. There are two molestation charges and one unlawful sexual coersion charge related to him pinning her down and trying to pry her legs open until she agreed to consent.
This is simply false, and Hurtig's lies about it got him both scolded by a judge and officially reprimanded by the Swedish Bar Association. You can also read the leaked SMS logs from Ny (mainly with Hurtig), it gives a good sense of the game Hurtig is playing - he keeps trying to convince the Swedish side first that Assange is still in Sweden and getting ready to meet with them, then pretends to be out of touch with him and stops answering his phone, then when it's clear that Assange is overseas he still keeps pretending that Assange will be coming back very soon to meet with them Assange is setting up long-term lodging in the UK and hiring local attorneys.
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Re:culture trap (Score:4, Interesting)
*** Yes, he did flee. The claim that Assange was "free to go" as promulgated by Björn Hurtig, a former attorney of Assange's. He tried that same line in court and got smacked down by the judge for trying to deceive the court, and then got an official reprimand from the Swedish Bar Association [thelocal.se].
I can't confirm or deny your claim here, but the link you provide doesn't confirm it either:
Riddle was referring to testimony in which Hurtig had said he had been unable to contact Assange last year when he was sought by Swedish prosecutors for questioning.
Nothing is said about whether Assange was free to leave Sweden or not, but a court order banning you from leaving the country usually means you hand over your passport. Since the UK is not part of the Schengen Area [wikipedia.org], he would have needed a passport to enter the UK from Sweden.
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"F*ing a sleeping girl is to work around her refusal to consent to one's preferred form of sex - entry #4 on Assange's EAW - is rape in almost every jurisdiction in the first world."
Except that Sofia Wilén has admitted that she wasn't actually sleeping. In fact, SMS's she sent indicated not only that she was actually awake, and that she didn't protest. Her SMS history afterwards also indicates that she didn't want to accuse him of rape or have him arrested, but was pressured by Anna Ardin and her
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Don't accept things on face value.
My understanding is that at least one of the victims has come out and said it was not rape, and that the facts that were presented were inaccurate. She has made claims that she was coerced into her statements.
Never about a rape charge (Score:1)
And ALL persons involved know this.
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Are you saying that the CIA would trump up a fake rape charge [go.com] just because someone was foolish enough to threaten U.S. interests [guardian.co.uk], only for the truth to come out [nytimes.com] as soon as they got what they wanted [nytimes.com]?
That's just ludicrous!
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No need to write the same reply again [slashdot.org].
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February, 2011: Strauss-Kahn, head of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), begins to call for a new global currency to supplant the U.S. Dollar (widely held as the current global standard, to the great benefit of the U.S. of course).
May, 2011: Strauss-Kahn is publicly dragged off a plane in NYC in handcuffs and paraded in front of the press, in what the NY prosecutor calls a "rock solid" case of sexual assault. Strauss-Khan is shortly thereafter forced to resign as head of the IMF.
June, 2011 Christine Lag
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Jackass? More like paid hack. There are lot of rape activists in the world, but Rei is the only single-rape activist on the planet. You can see her in any story about Assange repeating the same debunked talking points, going back years. You know, the usual crap that the Swedish government can't promise Assange that he wont be handed over to the U.S. as soon as they get their hands on him.
Rei's not too bright, though, as she made u
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But I would be very surprised if those PR organizations have the staying power to have shills with her kind of history and longevity. That's what
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Are we talking of the same Strauss-Kahn who was being tried for other unrelated sex offences?
Wink wink - ahh ok... (Score:1)
Glad to see the rest of the world is learning from America, a truly inspiring nation.
DNA sample? (Score:5, Interesting)
Neither Assange nor his accuser deny that they had sex. They just disagree over how consensually they had sex.
What, exactly, do they hope to prove from a DNA test?
Now, I suppose it would certainly put quite an interesting spin on all this if it turns out Assange didn't have sex with her, but other than that totally-out-there possibility, what other use could they have for his DNA?
Ah, that last, mostly rhetorical question brings out the paranoid anti-government side of me. What other use could they have? "Hey, check it out, we "found" his DNA in hundreds of previously-unprocessed-for-decades rape kits from the US!" And just like that, the US would have direct standing to extradite him.
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What, exactly, do they hope to prove from a DNA test?
Nothing, it's just standard operating procedure to take your DNA whenever you interact with the police these days.
Even innocent people reporting crimes are often asked to provide samples, supposedly so that theirs can be distinguished from the criminal's at the crime scene. Someone I know gave them his 1 year old daughter's DNA for this purpose, and she will now be on their files for almost the entirety of her life.
Also, in this case it helps confirm that the DNA sample that the US already has for him is co
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"lets grab some of his dna and plant it various places"
yeah, this is an akbar. ie, a trap.
meet with her behind sealed glass, if you must. don't shake hands, don't go near her or any of her party.
and, in fact, I see no reason why this can't be done REMOTELY. if all they want to do is 'talk', we could have handled this years ago with wires. if no wires, then wet string and 2 paper cups.
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Neither Assange nor his accuser deny that they had sex. They just disagree over how consensually they had sex.
What, exactly, do they hope to prove from a DNA test?
According to wikipedia:
The allegations are of "non-consensual behaviour within consensual sexual encounters."[120] One of the allegations is that, during consensual intercourse, Assange ejaculated inside of one of the women against her wishes.[121] Assange denies the allegations.[122]
So I think that would explain why they want the sample. He says he didn't, she says he did. If they find a match, then that answers the question. Or it least it could rule out his guilt. It can't prove his guilt for the same reason why the pull-out method of contraception doesn't work.
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Isn't the argument about the use of a condom or not?
I guess if they have AssangeÂs semen they can show he didn't used one.
And then what?
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Why wouldn't this be the reason for the request? Investigator isn't the same thing as prosecutor. For someone investigating the alleged rape it would be pretty convenient if it could be shown that the accusation is fabricated. No need to prove intent or anything, just shut down the case and move on.
Both parties agree to the claim that they had sex. The police haven't presented a reason to need DNA evidence.
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On an American university campus, if a woman claims she has been raped, then that means she has been raped. There are severe penalties for her rapist.
Unless of course, she wasn't actually raped. Then it doesn't mean that she was raped. And with how screwed up US campuses are these days, even a false accusation of rape can have severe penalties.
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Finally (Score:5, Interesting)
Finally.
It's not like this is unprecedented. I don't know what's so special about Assange that they could not have done this a long time ago.
My guess on what's about to happen:
- Sweden interviews him and drops the charges.
- Assange steps out of the embassy and is immediately arrested.
- Assange is charged in the US and extradited within a few days.
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Finally.
It's not like this is unprecedented. I don't know what's so special about Assange that they could not have done this a long time ago.
My guess on what's about to happen:
- Sweden interviews him and drops the charges.
- Assange steps out of the embassy and is immediately arrested.
- Assange is charged in the US and extradited within a few days.
Bollocks. The United States of America is the nexus of true freedom in this universe. They love whistleblowers, I hear they want snowmen back to apologize to him about the whole misunderstanding and return the ill gotten rights of the government, obtained by one or two bad apples, to the citizens. Furthermore the USA would never resort to underhanded tactics like that. How could you be so insulting to such great nations? I dare you to find a SINGLE real world example!!!
Re:Finally (Score:5, Insightful)
I hear the President invited Snowden back to the U.S. for a special "We Love Whistleblowers!" party, where there will be cake. Better hurry up and get on that plane Edward, before the cake is all gone!
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The cake is a lie
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I hear the President invited Snowden back to the U.S. for a special "We Love Whistleblowers!" party, where there will be cake. Better hurry up and get on that plane Edward, before the cake is all gone!
Yellowcake?!
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They like FOREIGN whistle blowers ;D
Just like the Russians!
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>>>> The United States of America is the nexus of true freedom in this universe.
Bwahahahahahaha. Thanks I needed a laugh.
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I hear they want snowmen back to apologize
the snowmen are now melted; its spring time.
can we send in rudolph the red nosed reindeer, in place of the snowmen?
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I wanted to moderate this 'Funny' but far too many people actually believe stuff like this.
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Bollocks. The United States of America is the nexus of true freedom in this universe. They love whistleblowers, I hear they want snowmen back to apologize to him about the whole misunderstanding and return the ill gotten rights of the government, obtained by one or two bad apples, to the citizens. Furthermore the USA would never resort to underhanded tactics like that. How could you be so insulting to such great nations? I dare you to find a SINGLE real world example!!!
True story.
In fact they are a prime example of selflessness.
They brought so much justice and democracy to the world that nothing of it is left at home.
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Assange won't leave until his arrest warrant is dropped and he is guaranteed passage out of the UK, presumably to Ecuador. The UK may well agree since it's costing so much to guard the embassy and providing a source of constant embarrassment. There is basically zero chance of him leaving otherwise, he continues to have an active life and role from within.
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The UK doesn't care about the cost of guarding that embassy 24/7. That's a trivial cost to them to keep their U.S. masters happy.
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The UK doesn't care about the cost of guarding that embassy 24/7. That's a trivial cost to them to keep their U.S. masters happy.
It was said today that here in Sweden we'll spend ~250 million (SEK, worth 1/8.6 as much in USD) in a case on cheating with uhm... was it household assistance or something such? Worth ~11 million.
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UK twist:
"He's truly sorry and have agreed to pay these £100 000 in compensation" (from the coffins of London/UK to not have to bother any more ;D)
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Bullshit. It isn't standard procedure to send legal people to conduct interviews. In some cases it is done but only if the person of interest can't otherwise be heard - e.g. if in jail or so sick they can't be moved. In this case the person in question have selected to hide citing idiotic reasons.
Anyone with some clue understands that the idea Sweden is more likely to extradite anyone to the US than the UK is thoroughly wrong and easily disproved using actual extradition statistics.
Anyone that thinks Sweden
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Anyone with some clue understands that the idea Sweden is more likely to extradite anyone to the US than the UK is thoroughly wrong and easily disproved using actual extradition statistics.
Anyone that thinks Sweden would extradite anyone possible facing the death penalty (AS CLAIMED BY ASSANGE) don't know shit about the law - last I checked there are a number of murderers walking free in Sweden as they can't be extradited without guarantees of not facing death.
(anonymous because of moderation)
Extradition from Sweden, or the UK, would as I understand it require judicial trial. If he was facing a prosecution risking the death penalty then I do doubt Sweden would hand him over. But there's a non-judicial route in Sweden if the US wanted him for assistance in an other case (say some side-line/spin-off to Snowden's case), and that could be decided by a civil servant without judicial involvement.
Anyone think the US might "find something unexpected" to charge him with once on US soil?
Sweden - Oops, so
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I think you are half right. This is the first step to dropping all charges and walking away.
He will not be immediately arrested because, he has already been neutralized and their ability to effectively imprison people like him has been demonstrated by effectively keeping him imprisoned for years. Few people would be so lucky in his shoes, so their point is well made.
Typically the last thing they would really want is a messy and contentious trial. They would much rather it fade away into obscurity.
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He will not be immediately arrested because, he has already been neutralized and their ability to effectively imprison people like him has been demonstrated by effectively keeping him imprisoned for years.
Last I saw, Wikileaks was still alive and well.
I really doubt this is going to blow over.
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Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. This is what they charge you with if you used a computer.
Then Espionage and Conspiracy. The CFAA only goes up to 10 years, I assume someone would want to make an example out of him.
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Why would he be arrested?
Held as a material witness into who leaked all that stuff to Wikileaks.
Same cell. Different colored jumpsuit.
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Why would he be arrested?
Held as a material witness into who leaked all that stuff to Wikileaks.
Same cell. Different colored jumpsuit.
Material witness for what trial? Manning was already convicted and sentenced.
Re: Finally (Score:1)
Indeed "what trial" ... trials aren't required for the US ... haven't you heard of Guantanamo?
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Terrorism. I don't think it is that hard for a US agency to fabricate documents that indicates that Assange have used Wikileaks to fund some terrorist organization or whatever.
Swedish Charges/British Charges (Score:5, Insightful)
There's two dimensions here, first there's the Swedish charges and certainly if the prosecutors can question him in the Ecuadorian embassy then that's great, however he still fled and violated the conditions of his bail while awaiting extradition proceedings in the UK. That's still a problem for him.
I think Ecuador is going to ship a large "diplomatic pouch" about the size of a refrigerator sometime soon because he has to be stinking up the embassy by now.
Re:Swedish Charges/British Charges (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah I'm interested to see how that plays out. If Sweden drops it's extradition request, there's every possibility that the British courts may deem that that adds weight to his argument that there was no case to answer, that it was political, and that he shouldn't have had to be on bail in the first place making his fleeing of that effectively irrelevant.
But then if there is a political dimension, it may be that they'll be happy to get him on whatever they can, and they do indeed punish him for skipping bail.
It'd be interesting to see how that plays out, but it really depends what happens after the questioning that is finally going ahead.
It's interesting that Ny cites the impending statute of limitations date as the reason for the change of heart. There have been two other key events in the last 6 months that I suspect were more relevant:
1) Assange's petition to the Swedish courts to have the case dropped failed, but in the ruling the Swedish judiciary was clear that it could not understand why Ny hadn't just questioned him over here, that it was incredibly odd that she hadn't and that she must do this ASAP.
2) There has been growing political pressure to stop guarding the embassy. When £10million has been spent on guarding the embassy whilst police forces have been cut MPs have faced increasing pressure from the public and even policing unions to stop wasting time on it. Recent cuts have meant that some crimes such as car crime have become defacto decriminalised because the police no longer have the resources to pursue them. In that context it's rather galling for the police and public alike to hear we're spending millions just to have officers stood around doing nothing.
So I imagine the weight of these two events have been the key reasons for this shift rather than expiry of statute of limitations for the most minor allegations. If Ny defied the Swedish courts a further appeal to have the case dropped would likely succeed due to Ny refusing to do her job and actually pursue a prosecution. Similarly, the Ecuadorian embassy might stop being watched and Assange could flee anyway.
She's really been left little choice. At least the case is finally moving, and Ny has been forced to do her job properly rather than simply persisting with long discredited excuses not to do it (the most amusing of which is that the Swedish justice system doesn't allow overseas questioning - what a laughing stock the folks that persisted in pushing that myth have now become).
Not necessiarly (Score:2)
It is still a crime to flee bail, regardless of the merit of the original charges. So the UK may still want to prosecute, particularly since he has flaunted it for years staying in an embassy. They can decide to drop it, of course, but they may not. They don't want to encourage the idea that it is ok to skip bail and run if you think you are innocent. You still need to obey the police.
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Yeah it's still a crime, that's not in dispute, but we do have the concepts of extenuating circumstances and public interest in British law.
I can't see what the public interest would be if it turns out there are no charges to answer, it's not like anyone and everyone can just get an embassy to put them up in order to skip bail, even Ecuador very nearly didn't take him. It's not like people are going to start running to embassies left and right under the assumption they'll get given protection- Assange was a
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The UK can either wait for him to come out and keep paying millions of pounds a year to watch the door, or they can let him leave and go to Ecuador. They will opt for the latter option, because keeping him there clearly isn't working. They can convict him of skipping bail when his is long gone, just to save face.
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Well, the fleeing part from Sweden is actually not relevant here. He was asked to come back after the fact, which was arguably not aboveboard, but he was legally brought in for an extradition hearing in the UK. He then fled to the embassy.
At this point, by escaping from the UK to the embassy of Ecuador, he's actually in flight from UK law.
As they say, you may well be jailed unjustly, but escape from even an unjust imprisonment is still against the law. They could fix that in court, but guess what, now he
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Yes. And in his case, they may decline to prosecute his escape in the UK.
However, he will still be arrested in the meantime, and the fear of Assange and his supporters is that being in UK custody and unable to travel to somewhere less likely to cooperate with the US means that the US will be able to get their hands on him and have him extradited to the US where there certainly are grounds to arrest him and charge him with something, should the US government want to do so.
It is not clear that the US actuall
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Full disclosure: I am a Swede, living in Sweden and think the entire case should be dropped by Swedish authorities. They might have been doing the right thing in the beginning, but now they are just
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My favourite part on that is that the Interpol document with the warrant was a top-priority "red notice" normally reserved for something like a child molester at high risk of re-offending. Khadaffi got only an "orange notice".
Wait, are they asking for my permission? (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm, nice of them to ask. Guess it is the Excellent Karma?
Anyway, sure, go ahead, you have my permission.
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Their problem is that if they wait longer the .. possible offenses are hit by the time-bar.
As such I don't see why Assange should care all that much. Can't he just leave once that happen?
But supposedly it wasn't for all of it (I've read "some.")
Anyway they also claim that any court action would have to happen in Sweden so wouldn't that just leave everything where it is now anyway?
The strategy against Assange has worked (Score:2)
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If the US had grabbed him, tried him in some kangaroo court and imprisoned him, he'd stay relevant as a sort of journalistic martyr.
Well that's marvellous and all, except he's got way more freedom in the Ecuadorian embassy than he would have in some solitary cell in gitmo or whereever he wound up.
Also, his stay with the Ecuadorians comes with 100% less torture!
It is massively in his favour to be where he is now.
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Nor will they bother. They will simply abduct him. Laws be damned. That's the naked reality behind the US government's smarmy rhetoric about "human rights." It all stops, when US officials are threatened.
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If the US had grabbed him, tried him in some kangaroo court and imprisoned him, he'd stay relevant as a sort of journalistic martyr.
Yes, Chelsea/Bradley Manning is having a great time of it.
It's really cool to be a journalistic martyr and have all the accolades. I'm told the suicide watch time period of his life was his/her favorite part.
Either way Wikileaks has been killed without its killers having done anything that looks like a heavy-handed suppression of journalism.
And yet, leaks still happen.
Stopping wikileaks was about as successful as plugging a failed river damn with half a square of toilet paper.
The US may have gotten its childish revenge, but this kind of treatment only pushed a future whistleblower like Snowden to work for our enemies.
He should refuse (Score:2)
According to TFA, the statute of limitations on the charges runs out in August of this year. On September 1 he can walk out of there a free man cleared of all charges.
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On September 1 he can walk out of there a free man cleared of all charges.
Yeah, he could walk right out of that embassy into a U.S. extradition request on other charges.
So, Sweden disccovers Skype, phones and air travel (Score:4, Insightful)
Since clearly, they knew of none of these things years ago when Snowden was first sequestered.
As Snowden has correctly stated, it's a ruse to allow the USA to take him into custody. Apparently Sweden will do its questioning, probably drop the case for lack of evidence and the USA can go twist in the wind.
What this really says is just how the USA's power position in the world has changed. Sweden has read the writing on the wall. They'll respond to pressure from the US state department just as much as they need to, which is now apparently, not much.
Telephone? (Score:3)
Swedish prosecutors are arranging to come to London and question Assange within the embassy
Sweden still needs to be granted permission from both the UK and Ecuador.
The phone, motherfuckers, pick it up and CALL HIM WITH YOUR QUESTIONS!!! I am constantly amazed at how people in charge of important things can make simple tasks so convoluted.
Good (Score:1)
I believe Ecuador will agree to this.
But the best thing about this is, if the UK says no, then it clearly shows that they want to sell him out to the Americans.
Assange Accuser CIA ties .. (Score:2, Funny)
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No, it isn't.
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
E
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You're an idiot, who doesn't know there are no charges.