Secret Service Plans New Fence, Full Scale White House Replica, But No Moat 175
HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that the Secret Service is recruiting some of its best athletes to serve as pretend fence jumpers at a rural training ground outside Washington in a program to develop a new fence around the White House that will keep intruders out without looking like a prison. Secret Service officials acknowledge that they cannot make the fence foolproof; that would require an aesthetically unacceptable and politically incorrect barrier. Prison or Soviet-style design is out, and so is anything that could hurt visitors, like sharp edges or protuberances. Instead, the goal is to deter climbers or at least delay them so that officers and attack dogs have a few more seconds to apprehend them. In addition, there might be alterations to the White House grounds but no moat, as recently suggested by Representative Steve Cohen of Tennessee. "When I hear moat, I think medieval times," says William Callahan, assistant director for the office of protective operation at the Secret Service.
The Times also reports that the Secret Service wants to spend $8 million to build a detailed replica of the White House in Beltsville, Maryland to aid in training officers and agents to protect the real thing. "Right now, we train on a parking lot, basically," says Joseph P. Clancy, the director of the Secret Service. "We put up a makeshift fence and walk off the distance between the fence at the White House and the actual house itself. We don't have the bushes, we don't have the fountains, we don't get a realistic look at the White House." The proposed replica would provide what Clancy describes as a "more realistic environment, conducive to scenario-based training exercises," for instructing those who must protect the president's home. It would mimic the facade of the White House residence, the East and West Wings, guard booths, and the surrounding grounds and roads. The request comes six months after an intruder scaled a wrought-iron fence around the White House and ran through an unlocked front door of the residence and into the East Room before officers tackled him.
The Times also reports that the Secret Service wants to spend $8 million to build a detailed replica of the White House in Beltsville, Maryland to aid in training officers and agents to protect the real thing. "Right now, we train on a parking lot, basically," says Joseph P. Clancy, the director of the Secret Service. "We put up a makeshift fence and walk off the distance between the fence at the White House and the actual house itself. We don't have the bushes, we don't have the fountains, we don't get a realistic look at the White House." The proposed replica would provide what Clancy describes as a "more realistic environment, conducive to scenario-based training exercises," for instructing those who must protect the president's home. It would mimic the facade of the White House residence, the East and West Wings, guard booths, and the surrounding grounds and roads. The request comes six months after an intruder scaled a wrought-iron fence around the White House and ran through an unlocked front door of the residence and into the East Room before officers tackled him.
still can't beat Kentucky (Score:2, Funny)
Why use secrete service agents (Score:4, Interesting)
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"secrete service?"
Do I even want to ask what manner of substance they secrete?
Re:Why use secrete service agents (Score:4, Funny)
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Perhaps because they aren't looking for the best pure athlete to simulate an intruder. Presumably Secret Service agents (at least those that are on White House duty) would also have training in searching for evasive intruders, and therefor would have an idea how to play the role of one as well.
Now perhaps they could train world class athletes as well as cross train them to be Secret Service agents...
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Why use secrete service agents when instead it could be a dual use facility for the training of the US Olympic track and field team.
It would make more sense for them to practice at the "real" White House, and have Obama move to the remote "fake" White House. Is there any reason the POTUS needs to be physically located in downtown DC?
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It would make more sense for them to practice at the "real" White House, and have Obama move to the remote "fake" White House. Is there any reason the POTUS needs to be physically located in downtown DC?
Proximity to lobbyists and think tanks?
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Why use secrete service agents when instead it could be a dual use facility for the training of the US Olympic track and field team.
It would make more sense for them to practice at the "real" White House, and have Obama move to the remote "fake" White House. Is there any reason the POTUS needs to be physically located in downtown DC?
Or just practice when he's not there. It's not like he's there all day every day. He goes on plenty of out of town trips and even
if he didn't there is no reason that you couldn't still practice with him there as long as everyone was properly informed.
Lifeguards routinely have fake drownings to keep them on their toes. Guests are used to it and it doesn't cause any alarm.
Re:Why use secrete service agents (Score:4, Insightful)
Or just practice when he's not there.
Thus giving anyone passing by a free demo of what will and won't happen if they decided to give it a try.
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They essentially want a park on which to do training, and they want it
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The 'real' White House has a lot of valuable antiques (including the building itself), a large number of regular employees, and a steady stream of guests and visiting dignitaries.
Even a simulated terrorist attack could get messy, and they'd have the inconvenience of having to schedule around the President and staff's activities.
A staging site makes perfect sense here.
Re:Why use secrete service agents (Score:4, Insightful)
Athletes certainly run fast and jump high in well defined conditions but the Fosbury flop is clearly not the best way to jump over fences.
A parkour team would probably do much better considering that obstacle clearing is their specialty.
Secret? (Score:3)
Re:Secret? (Score:5, Interesting)
I think that the only thing that was ever really "secret" about it was that its agents didn't wear uniforms.
The US Secret Service historically has carried 2 primary mandates. To protect heads of state and to protect the reputation of US currency.
Tells you where priorities lie.
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Mmmm (Score:3)
"the Secret Service is recruiting some of its best athletes to serve as pretend fence jumpers"
Why? There seem to be plenty of amateurs doing quite well in that discipline.
Shouldn't they train to stop the real jumpers when they get down on the other side?
That's where the deficit seems to be.
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But we are going to be paying these people to jump over fences for a living.
After a few months of training the professionals should be able to out fence jump the amateurs.
Also that gives me an idea for a TV show... "Professionally trained to climb over the most robust fences by the US government Rob Howard went rogue and now spends his time helping the wrongly detained escape." a little bit cop drama (did they do it?) a little bit prison break show, I little running from the law, and a touch of breaking th
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Alternately - and this seems more inline with current government policies - they could just make jumping illegal. That should solve the problem quite thoroughly, I'm sure.
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Staying awake on guard duty would seem a useful tactic.
Maybe useful, maybe not effective? (Score:2)
It seems like this could be a useful training tool, especially for more complex/dangerous threats like multiple agent terrorist attacks. However, I fail to see how this will improve an agent's ability to stop a guy from jumping a fence and making a break for it. This might be simplistic, but isn't the solution to that problem to keep your eyes open and then radio it in? You know, like every other security job in the country?
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Eh, a lot of people need practice and routine to drill things into their head, and get them a sense of how to respond, especially when matters get a touch more complex. That's why sports teams run plays in a live environment rather than just learn it in their head, and why actors rehearse a play rather than just memorize lines, and why firemen practice putting out some buildings, and more.
And yes, that includes a lot of the more involved security jobs. Your local police probably has a number of training
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I don't think you even need your eyes open. When I was at school I was given a tour of the local pharmacutical R&D company's facility. They had trouble with animal rights protesters, so the fence would alert security if it was knocked by a person and bring up the appropriate CCTV camera to that panel.
Glass? (Score:2)
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"Bulletproof" glass is actually some kind of plastic polymer that degrades with UV light, ie sunlight, as in the kind of light you get in the brutally hot summers in DC. They'd have to replace the entire thing every year.
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> brutally hot summers in DC.
Coming from Texas, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH,
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There's increased costs, for maintenance (regular cleaning) and replacement (it still cracks when damaged, even if it stays in one piece).
Glass by itself isn't nearly as strong as steel, so it would either need bollards or a steel fence to protect against vehicles. Vehicles crashing through gates can be very bad [wikipedia.org].
Bollards may not be a good idea though, because a smaller vehicle such as a motorcycle might still be able to go between the bollards and break through the glass.
Perhaps the lower half of th
But without moat... (Score:3)
How do they expect to repel the Mongol Hoard that doesn't know how to swim?
Re:But without moat... (Score:5, Funny)
Unless you're stockpiling Mongols, then it would, in fact, be Mongol Horde.
Just sayin'.
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I sense a TLC reality show spin-off in the works.
Mongol Hoarders - so many warriors, so little space
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In my defense, I was on my cell phone, in the private cell phone usage room.
Call Disney's zoo design team.... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a minefield? (Score:3)
Doesn't have such a negative visual aspect as a perfectly secure fence, doesn't involved major works such as a "medieval" moat etc? Would look like theres nothing there.
Fairly cheap as well.
Or turn over the outer lawns to rabid badgers.
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Doesn't have such a negative visual aspect as a perfectly secure fence, doesn't involved major works such as a "medieval" moat etc? Would look like theres nothing there.
Fairly cheap as well.
Or turn over the outer lawns to rabid badgers.
Mantraps would also work. I.e. trap doors that open up with a 20ft fall (you could put a net at the bottom if you wanted to be nice.
Basically, it would be rather simple to create an invisible moat and anyone that gets past the invisible moat should probably just
be shot as it's then obviously not an accident.
Ideas (Score:5, Interesting)
Transparent : tall invisible bars are aesthetically acceptable.
Fragile : make it seem easy and simple but fragile in a way that once broken it becomes hard to climb. If you break something and hurt yourself few people will blame the inanimate object.
Sticky: as soon as you touch it, it secretes superglue. The guards come with an innocuous solvent.
Hidden : fill the moat with a "non-Newtonian" dirt colored fluid. Doesn't look like a moat, but people do fall inside and it's hard to move fast through it.
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If you break something and hurt yourself few people will blame the inanimate object.
You obviously haven't experienced the US Justice system much. Not only do they blame inanimate objects, they blame those that make them for the stupid stuff that people do with those objects.
There is a reason why hair curling irons have this warning: "Do no attempt to curl eyelashes with this product. Serious injury is likely" (or similar). It is because someone did it, hurt themselves, and blames the hair curling iron manufacturers for their idiocy.
Slippery (Score:2)
You forgot Slippery.
I know of two instances of Vaseline being used to prevent people from doing things. In once instance a home owner coated his external TV antenna to keep kids from climbing it. Also a town with a outdoor Christmas tree had kids stealing light bulbs, so they smeared those as well. In both cases, it A) Makes whatever it is you are trying to do more difficult, and B) pretty disgusting.
For bonus points add a localized smell. For extra credit, add a trace agent, so that under UV light or whate
Another solution (Score:1)
How about locking the damn doors?
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Secret Service Agent Clancy (Score:2)
Maybe once the white house fence is complete.... (Score:1)
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Ditch the White House (Score:5, Interesting)
For that kind of money it would be more economical to actually build a real work residence for the president. Why stay in a 18th century mansion when you can build a modern facility with serious infrastructure. Keep the White House for tourists and perhaps as a museum or special press meetings, but let real work take place in a secure environment that is actually designed for the modern state.
But I guess 8 million for a full-scale doll house is better for morale.
Re:Ditch the White House (Score:5, Informative)
The WH has plenty of very secure infrastructure but you can't see it because it is underground. Infrastructure supposedly capable of surviving a nuclear attack on Washington. All of the secure meeting rooms are located several levels down to help protect against electronic surveillance.
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The WH has plenty of very secure infrastructure but you can't see it because it is underground.
And all the stuff rumored to be on the roof as well.
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... a 18th century mansion ...
Only the exterior is 18th century. The interior has been fully gutted and rebuilt.
.
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Still way too small for the size of the US Govt.
Seriously, a modern state needs some modern buildings.
Plus the so-called 'curtains' in the blue room are so tacky - they are painted on the wall. Not only is it cheap, but it looks gross.
The White House was built to try to impress the 18th century folks that we *maybe* had some class. It was cheap shit that we just sort of faked even back then. Let's build something worthy of the most powerful nation on earth.
Laugh (Score:1)
Yeah why get poked by a fence when you can get mauled by the dogs when you hit the ground.
Moats are still a good idea (Score:3)
A moat is still a good idea. It can be an attractive feature, if done correctly, and someone entering the moat is a flag that they may be able to jump the fence.
Re:Moats are still a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed.
I can think of a few modern large buildings in the UK with linked duck ponds with ducks, water lillies, fountains etc. in landscaped grounds. They look attractive and it's only when you stop and really look you realise their main functionis a moden day moat.
Indeed apart from protection, the visual amenity is worthwhile (relatively low cost to provide a place to feast your eyes at lunchtime) and they also offer the potential for a heat sink for cooling.
Just make sure you keep a view on expenses though (see parliamentary expenses scandal a few years back - Douglas Hogg claiming moat cleaning on his family's ancestral home or Peter Viggers claiming for a duck house)
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Water features also provide significant air quality benefits, especially if you aerate them. There's just lots of good reasons to implement them. Trees, as well; I cringe when I see posts permanently erected for vehicle control. Removable or sinking bollards, certainly. They have their purpose. But fixed ones?
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Exactly, we don't want to be associated with torture, that stuff has to be kept quiet. It is no longer socially acceptable to openly torture.
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Yeah, I'm bewildered by "That's a medieval thing" as a reason, rather than an appreciation of its function, effectiveness and potential attractiveness.
A moat would be far nicer than a fence and could be easily as effective.
A moat is too old-fashioned. (Score:2)
Yeah, we wouldn't want to get too old-fashioned here as we build these upgrades to fend off religious fanatics and their ideals that go back thousands of years.
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A moat can house sharks with frickin' lasers. Nothing medieval about that.
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Stop calling it a Moat then.
Call it a "reflection pool" or some other term.
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aesthetically unacceptable / politically incorrect (Score:3, Insightful)
At the same time, ugly fences are not an issue when it comes to US embassies on foreign soil.
A good example might be the one at 1, Liberty Square, Budapest, Hungary. [wordpress.com]
Bonus points for the address...
Replica? (Score:2)
...Secret Service wants to spend $8 million to build a detailed replica of the White House in Beltsville, Maryland to aid in training officers and agents to protect the real thing....
Which of the recent Secret Service failings to protect the White House were caused by a lack of a replica to train on? Would the agents have missed the concrete barrier on the way back from a party if they had trained on a replica of the White House? Would the White House usher have turned off the alert box if there were a replica of the White House to train on? etc., etc.
.
It is looking as if the Secret Service is piling on requests in this time of scrutiny.
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Presumably (Score:2)
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Mortars have pretty poor accuracy as well. As well, they are not line-of-sight, so you have to have knowledge of the exact range and a good characterization of the ballistic performance of the mortar; then you have to dial in the correct elevation.
An RPG you just point directly at the bloody target and fire.
Politically Incorrect? (Score:2)
The man in the high castle (Score:5, Funny)
As a loyal citizen o Her Britannic Majesty, I ind this whole thing hilarious.
You need a castle mate.
All this bollocks about fences "looking like a prison" is failure of imagination on a galactic scale.
For centuries people from less happy lands have crossed our silver sea to raise the hand of war against out kings and queens but their knavish tricks have been frustrated by our castles.
They are so aesthetically pleasing that millions of tourists flock to them, The Tower of London has no moat but would remain fast against any plausible attack. We use it to store the Crown Jewels.
If your Mr. Obama would care to contact Her Majesty then I'm sure she would supply the plans as a gift, I have her address if you need it.
Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Queen of Canada,Queen of Australia,Lord of Man,Overlord of Sark Defender of the Faith
Buckingham Palace
London
SW1A 1AA
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...The Tower of London has no moat but would remain fast against any plausible attack. We use it to store the Crown Jewels....
Weren't the Crown Jewels moved to Fort Know, KY, USA temporarily during World War II?
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... the location has never been disclosed...
Perhaps not disclosed by the British. However, Ft. Knox had owned up to it in the past.
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Depends whether you think that the White House will be attacked by a major nation state ?
The diligent historians amongst us will remember that when the White House was attacked by a nation state, it got trashed big time...
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...During the war the U.S. Bullion Depository continued to operate at Fort Knox, receiving more and more shipments of the country's gold reserves. The Gold Vault was also used to store and to safeguard the English crown jewels and the Magna Carta, along with the gold reserves of several of the countries of occupied Europe. ...
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Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.
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Wasn't making that comparison, indeed Hitler had much little personal for most of his time, even when the war started. Also of course he fought for country in WWI doing a very dangerous role, got decorated. Obama never served, GW Bush's daddy got him the job of defending Florida from North Vietnam, Clinton dodged the war altogether, Reagan never saw action, etc.
McCain did do serious military service, yet in free and fair elections the American people rejected him for President.
I mention this because of the
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Perimeter detection (Score:1)
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Its much easier to say "there isn't enough training," than to say "our people exhibited gross incompetence."
Japanese garden water feature (Score:1)
Moats can look good and can be crossable only at slower speeds:
https://www.google.ca/search?q... [google.ca]
Four words: (Score:5, Interesting)
Shallow depression + thorn hedge (Score:3)
No need for a moat. Just make a shallow depression on the White House side of the fence, and plant the slope back up to the White House Lawn with a low hedge of barberry, firethorn, and roses. Beautiful for picture taking, will make casual fencejumpers think twice, and slow down anyone who does. Won't stop a serious assault, but that's not what this is about.
What about cars? (Score:1)
Colombia (Score:1)
The Annual White House Fence Run (Score:3)
My proposal: the Annual White House Fence Run. Then some hide and seek, and whoever doesn't get caught gets to play President for one day.
Public-private partnership (Score:2)
Seems to me that the film and TV industry could really use a fake White House in the DC area as well.
So two options. First option, the Secret Service goes ahead and builds their fake White House outside of town, and then rents it out to movies and TV shows when it's not being used for drills, offsetting part of their budget.
Second option, some enterprising DC-area landowner builds their own fake White House, and rents it out for both Secret Service drills and for movies and TV shows.
Also worth pointing out
Pop up fences (Score:2)
Since money is no object why not a series of pop up fences. These fences are normally hidden and underground until triggered.
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Why not a set of increasingly difficult pop-up challenges, each more fiendish than the last?
Then it doubles as street entertainment and a prime-time TV show!
Really obvious solution being overlooked... (Score:2)
This is not complicated, You can link Secret Service agents arm-to-arm around the White House and some nutjobs are still going to try to make a run for it.
But post just one IRS agent at each entrance and you will not have a problem again.
Siege Warfare (Score:3)
What I want to know is how they will be defending against trebuchets.
New fence? Meh. (Score:2)
"butter".
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Well, aside from the fact that about half the US electorate are going to hate whoever wins the election; there is a large number of people outside the US that wish ill on the US president irrespective of which party he* represents. Some of them might even know his name.
* yeah, like it's ever going to be otherwise
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RE: Assassination attempts on Presidents, do a little research and find the political persuasion of those would be assassins. I won't tell you the results, because 1/2 of /. would call me a troll for simply pointing out facts. Which should tell you about name calling as well.
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How about getting a president that isn't so unpopular he needs protecting from anything and everything?
Because with some crazy people, the fact there even is a president is enough to want to kill him/her. Or the fact that the president is whoever is in that role on a given day when Crazy Person suddenly decides they've had enough of the fact that the US allows people to grow and cut down trees ... or allows women to go to school ... or allows anyone to own domestic animals ... or allows men to walk around without beards or not protect everyone from the Space Aliens, whatever.
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You mean one who would please all of the people all of the time?
Yeah... good luck with that!
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Is there anyone in the entire country who would fulfil that criteria?
Re:Cock lube and genital electrocution? (Score:5, Funny)
Why don't they just put up a normal sized fence, but cover it in cock lube so that it's really slippery and anyone who tries to climb it will just fall off?
To prevent people from jumping over, they should put tasers along the top, with computer-guided targeting systems that will shoot the tasers into the genitalia of anyone jumping the fence.
If somebody does make it over, they can just beat the person in the groin with sticks.
Sure, then the White House grounds would be inundated with masochists getting their jollies by scaling the fence; soon, as the prisons fill with them the ACLU gets involved, declaring the security practice "discriminatory," and our courts are clogged with lawsuits declaring the right to have one's testicles electrocuted is guaranteed in the Constitution. The Department of Health and Human Services will find some US code that can be interpreted loosely to agree with that assertion and circumvent Congress, forcing states to provide Testicle Electrocution centers. Due to cost concerns the states will be allowed to make electric car charging stations dual purpose ("charge your electric car...or your nuts"), but soon angry parents will protest because charging stations near schools will have to allow guys to pull out their nuts in public. The teachers' unions won't allow the government to move the charging stations because they are in bed with the "green" movement, so now regular old perverts will hang out at the stations and pretend they are electrocuting their nuts.
In conclusion, your idea will lead to perverts showing their balls to school girls, you insensitive clod.
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