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Canada Government Music

The Power of Backroom Lobbying: How the Music Industry Got a Copyright Extension 109

An anonymous reader writes: The Canadian government's unexpected budget decision to extend the term of copyright for sound recordings came as a surprise to most copyright watchers, but not the music industry lobby, which was ready with a press release within minutes. How did the industry seemingly know this was coming? Michael Geist reports that records show the extension is the result of backroom lobbying with monthly meetings between senior government officials and music industry lobbyists paving the way for copyright term extension without public consultation or debate.
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The Power of Backroom Lobbying: How the Music Industry Got a Copyright Extension

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  • No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zontar The Mindless ( 9002 ) <plasticfish@info.gmail@com> on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:16AM (#49574789) Homepage

    Why should anyone surprised, given the industry's deep pockets and demonstrated penchant for bribery?

    IMNSHO anyone "surprised" by this outcome is naïve.

    • Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:03AM (#49574879) Homepage

      By this point, anybody who believes capitalist democracy isn't broken is just clinging on to false hope.
      Any system that depends on all players being honest and fair is doomed to fail.
      Sadly, this includes every possible system that I'm aware of.

      • What is it they say about democracy being the worst type of government, except for all the other ones.
        • Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

          by itzly ( 3699663 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @03:13AM (#49575041)

          Secret talks between government and industry isn't really democracy.

          • Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Anne Thwacks ( 531696 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @04:06AM (#49575183)
            It is either failure to prosecute obvious bribery (lobyists bribe politicians to do illegal things) or corruption (politicans fail to make corruption illegal out of self interest).

            What ever the law, there is clear and obvious lack of morality here.

          • They can have all the secret talks they like so long as there is no conflict of interest.

            I find it hard to believe however that their isn't a conflict of interest when you have the Minister in change of copyright (Minister of Heritage or something or other, which I don't even fathom how they are in change of copyright in the first place) whole election campaign is/was predominantly funded by big media. How is that not a conflict of interest. They'll come out and say they were not influenced, and that they a

          • Indeed. But maybe we should choose our battles better. Copyright extension - essentially to infinity - seems silly, but the harm from it pales next to the damage being done by the patent system. Bad patents prevent you from innovating on your own ideas - that, yes, have some basis in what came before (what doesn't?). Copyrights just prevent you from 'free as in beer' access to something that we all agree isn't ours. Sure, there have been stupid cases - like Oracle's insistence to exclusive access to Ja

            • by tepples ( 727027 ) <.tepples. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @11:00AM (#49577871) Homepage Journal

              Bad patents prevent you from innovating on your own ideas - that, yes, have some basis in what came before (what doesn't?). Copyrights just prevent you from 'free as in beer' access to something that we all agree isn't ours.

              "We all agree"? Not everyone agreed about the ruling in Gaye v. Thicke to apply exclusive rights to the overall feel of a musical composition. Not everyone agreed about the ruling in Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music to penalize someone for having copied a melody completely by accident. What steps should a songwriter take to keep from infringing (and remain a songwriter) in this sort of legal landscape? At least expiry keeps, say, the Shakespeare estate from claiming that the entire world is guilty or liable of "nonliteral similarity" [orain.org]. It acts as one of the checks on "stupid cases".

        • by gl4ss ( 559668 )

          the real problem with copyrights is that the "interest groups" are the people benefiting from longer copyrights and most politicians continue to think so.

          however, there's the other group as well: the normal people.

          the canadians should vote for politicians who think that the people are an interest group and thus should be consulted.

          • That's why such groups used to be called "special interest groups," to highlight the fact that their point of view is distinct and different from the general interest of society.

      • Sadly, this includes every possible system that I'm aware of.

        Then it's not the system that needs to be changed.

        • by neo256 ( 2295528 )
          Maybe it's just the voting and the punishment that has to change?
          - Include a neutral and none of the above option for both parties and leader votes and make them actually count. If the blank + none of the above votes 'win the election' the whole thing has to start a new with either a new leader of the party if that's what was voted for or switching up the whole party.
          - Make campaign goals in to measurable goals. Everyone in office gets minimum wage. And the actual bonus pay out depends on how many % of th
          • While we're at it how about making accepting bribery in any form (including campaign contributions and industry "revolving doors") be considered treason - accepting political bribes is almost by definition a betrayal of the people, and by extension the nation. After all the ultimate authority in a democracy is supposed to be the people.

            • by neo256 ( 2295528 )
              Yes That would be a good one.
              I think a person in this position should be punished 10 times over every single felony they make instead of walking away (with a bail).

              The guy that under stress, drinks and punches a guy in the face is far less accountable for his actions then en well fed, well paid, highly educated (at least I hope they all are) government official who will determine that you will or will not be able to buy and eat a Nestle Kinder Surprise (to name a silly example) OR that we will send plane
      • by camg188 ( 932324 )
        Seems like the solution is to limit government.
        • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

          Limiting government assumes that civilians will be honest and fair when given (or rather; getting back from government) power to be dishonest and unfair.

          Part of the problem is also that "honest" and "fair" are highly subjective terms in the first place.
          Another part is that every single social/political system takes just all people to be honest and fair; just one exception will screw up the entire thing for all people.

          Capitalism would work great if everybody competes with everybody else and nobody tries to j

          • "I can't think of any social/political system which is NOT vulnerable in such a way."

            What about getting people out of government as much as possible? An open source algorithm for many of the mechanistic functions government purports to provide.

            • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

              Again, getting people OUT of government assumes that people behave more honestly and fairly without government control. There simply is no reason to assume that. If anything we regularly see evidence to the contrary.

              • No, no...you misunderstand me. I'm not saying there should be less government control, just that it's done algorithmically.

                Think automated DMV processing, automated welfare distribution, automated parolee management, IRS collections/auditing, and so forth.

                Of course, the inevitable argument against this is that too much trust is placed into the programmers hands. This is why it would all have to not just be open source, but clearly laid out and audited by many many programmers and non-programmers alike. Fur

                • No, no...you misunderstand me. I'm not saying there should be less government control, just that it's done algorithmically.

                  Think automated DMV processing, automated welfare distribution, automated parolee management, IRS collections/auditing, and so forth.

                  Of course, the inevitable argument against this is that too much trust is placed into the programmers hands. This is why it would all have to not just be open source, but clearly laid out and audited by many many programmers and non-programmers alike. Further, the algorithms should have built in mechanisms for refinement and improvement.

                  As a guy who loves designing algorithms, and is very good at it, I must say you put w-a-a-a-y too much faith in algorithms. Even "open source" algorithms. Consider the Federal Government's determinant sentencing rules (with the Orwellian misname of "guidelines"). They are viewed with almost uniform horror by the judges that must use them to calculate sentences, even by Conservative judges who would be most expected to approve of the often Draconian result. There is nothing secret about these sentencing algo

                  • Interesting. I admit that it's a stretch. Unfortunately, I can't really see any other way towards better government given the premise that all humans are corruptible (which is true).

                    The best hand-wavy rebuttal I can think of is to incorporate some buzzwords like 'machine learning' and 'crowd-sourcing' type stuff.

      • By this point, anybody who believes capitalist democracy isn't broken is just clinging on to false hope.

        Or is an executive/lobbyist for the music industry (or another big business). Capitalist democracy works VERY well for them. They throw around their capital and the democracy does what they want it to do.

        • It's a Republic not a Democracy. If it was a Democracy this wouldn't work so easily.

          • Or it's a "democracy" where one dollar = one vote. Those with the most dollar-votes win!

          • by dryeo ( 100693 )

            Canada, the subject of this article, is a Parliamentary Representative Democracy headed by the Queen of Canada. So no, it is not a republic.

      • It was always broken. But back then Communism kept them honest. Now that it isn't a threat they think they can do whatever they want.

      • at least in terms of their dear music and movie IP, I now refuse to buy and only 'download' my content. even though I can easily afford to pay for it.

        see, the thing is, the rich and powerful know about all the loopholes that are 'available' to them. tax havens, ways to get your own private law written AND passed, special exclusive business deals and so on. they laugh at the rules and say 'we have our own and your little rules only apply to the non-powerful, so suck it up and PAY US MORE!'

        ok, you rich and

    • Don't the people have a say in this?

      I do not care how deeeeep the industry's pocket is, in a democracy the ultimate decider is still the PEOPLE --- those who vote, that is

      The industry can only get something going if the people let them - and in this case, the people still have the right to SUE the government (and indirectly sue the politicians) over the passage of the laws

      Since this happens in Canada the Canadians have to mobilize themselves to see that such laws be overturned and the politicians who are on

      • Don't the people have a say in this?

        I do not care how deeeeep the industry's pocket is, in a democracy the ultimate decider is still the PEOPLE --- those who vote, that is

        The industry can only get something going if the people let them - and in this case, the people still have the right to SUE the government (and indirectly sue the politicians) over the passage of the laws

        Since this happens in Canada the Canadians have to mobilize themselves to see that such laws be overturned and the politicians who are on-the-take be punished accordingly

        No the people don't have a say because Canada is a republic, just like the USA, NOT a democracy. We vote for representatives to supposedly make decisions in the best interest of their constituency (which is totally laughable). What we actually have done is created an elected oligarchy where the only people who benefit from anything are the people in power and those with the money to keep them in power.

        • by dryeo ( 100693 )

          While the PM seems to think he is a President, he is actually a Prime Minister to Her Majesty, Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada and is responsible to the Parliament of Canada, which is responsible to and, at least the House of Commons, is elected by the Citizens of Canada.
          So a Monarchy, not a Republic like most current dictatorships.
          I hope that you aren't actually Canadian educated because when I went to school it was stressed that a republic was just not a Monarchy though in cases like N. Korea it's hard to t

      • by zlives ( 2009072 )

        people already voted with their pockets thus GIVING the industry "deep pockets"

    • Re:No surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NoKaOi ( 1415755 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:31AM (#49574929)

      Interesting how in some places in the world, we call it bribery and corruption. In other places, it's just "how stuff gets done."

      • Which places would those be? Certainly not Europe...
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by dj245 ( 732906 )

        Interesting how in some places in the world, we call it bribery and corruption. In other places, it's just "how stuff gets done."

        It's still graft either way. Think of all the problems caused by money buying influence in government. Now imagine how terrible it would be if businesses did it to each other too. The US government might be bought and paid for, but at least we have quite low levels of business-to-business bribery and corruption. My company can bid on projects and stand a very good chance of being evaluated on the quality of our bid and our reputation. That isn't true in a lot of places.

        I can't imagine how ridiculous

    • They probably also just happened to have a draft of how the legislation should be written, and just happened to be in the room with the minister and his deputies as they discussed when to roll it out.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I think we need a term for this. Something like "Lawyola"

    • As naive as anyone who thinks that any of the other parties would have come to a different decision. I'll save my criticism of the Cons for the erosion of charter rights and environmental stewardship.
    • by syn3rg ( 530741 )
      And I thought MAFIAA.org was satire....
  • by Anonymous Coward

    ...when the copyright on Celine Dion's horrible music expires anyway?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:33AM (#49574827)

    from the same site.. interesting insight into what really happened... http://www.michaelgeist.ca/201... [michaelgeist.ca]

    the songs themselves had a longer copyright term than the recordings of them. an enterprising company started selling music that fell in that gap.. songwriters still got paid but the original distributing labels (sony, universal, etc) got left out.. they got mad and did what big companies with governments wrapped around their corporate fingers do.. they got laws changed the way they want.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:40AM (#49574849)

    It's a disgusting, dirty, sordid job, and deserves all the contempt it gets.

    But the real traitors are the politicians in bed with those lobbyists. Supposedly representing the greater interest, in reality just serving their own greed.

    Those should go to jail, no less.

    • In Canada standing up against the Queen is treason. Selling out your own people to often foreign corporations is just business as usual.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @01:55AM (#49574867)

    I'm not saying corporate lobbyists aren't burrowed like ticks into every major government, because they are. But let's be real. They were "ready with a press release within minutes" because they wrote both press releases, and read the one that fit the situation. That's how it works.

  • How? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:07AM (#49574885)

    Bribes.

    Calling it lobbying is just sugar coating it.

  • Who is this Pisney anyway.
  • Freudian slip (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tao ( 10867 ) on Wednesday April 29, 2015 @02:52AM (#49574975) Homepage

    For some reason I read that as "paying the way for copyright term extension". After realising that I'd misread it I corrected myself. Then corrected myself again when I realised that the misread version makes more sense.

  • Lobbying is a polite name for bribery and coercion.

    Fuck politeness.

    If you have sufficient funds, you can buy any law you want.

  • Please call it what it is: theft from the public domain. It is theft of public property, plain an simple. They are stealing from Canadian citizens that which is rightfully theirs. A reasonable solution might be to treat copyright in a manner similar to a natural resource. Have the owners pay for the extended exclusive copyrights. That's a win/win solution. Hey, you could even put all of the copyrights that are expiring up for public auction, like we do for access to RF spectrum in the U.S. Have a min

  • Michael Geist reports that records show the extension is the result of backroom lobbying with monthly meetings between senior government officials and music industry lobbyists paving the way for copyright term extension without public consultation or debate.

    Because that pretty much sums up the way the Harper government operates -- and has, ever since they were elected.

  • For the citizens of democratic countries: Canada (and many English-speaking countries) is not a democracy but a geocracy, which ensure geographic regions (called ridings) are fairly represented. As can be seen on this official GoC website [parl.gc.ca] less than 4 in 10 Canadians voted for the party that somehow has an absolute majority in parliament.
  • Maybe we could name this the "Rita McNeil Copyright Extension Act". Whaddaya think?

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