First Smart TVs Powered By Firefox OS On Sale In Europe, Worldwide Soon 119
An anonymous reader writes: The first smart TVs powered by Firefox OS have gone on sale in Europe. Panasonic's line of Viera smart TVs includes six that are powered by Firefox OS — CR850, CR730, CX800, CX750, CX700 and CX680 — including their first curved LED LCD TV. The full global launch of the TVs is expected “in the coming months.” From the Mozilla blog: "We’re happy to partner with Panasonic to bring the first Smart TVs powered by Firefox OS to the world,” said Andreas Gal, Mozilla CTO. “With Firefox and Firefox OS powered devices, users can enjoy a custom and connected Web experience and take their favorite content (apps, videos, photos, websites) across devices without being locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand.”
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How is adding a plugin to handle an extra protocol the same as being locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand ?
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Also, would he rather Firefox baked EME [wikipedia.org] into their own code instead of using an Adobe plugin?
...and was he just as mad at Apple a few years back for *not* including a proprietary Adobe plugin with their mobile browser?
Re:Double-speak (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also easy enough for Mozilla to claim you won't be locked into any ecosystem because they don't have one. For Android at least the ecosystem is what makes it so valuable (for Apple I'm guessing it's about 50% cool electronic jewellery and 50% ecosystem).
I didn't buy my Android phone to make a social statement, I bought it because of the Android ecosystem. The ecosystem is a feature, not a flaw.
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for Apple I'm guessing it's about 50% cool electronic jewellery and 50% ecosystem
I've never understood this, the iPhone is the most common smartphone in the world, if what you're looking to do is make "a social statement" with your choice of smartphone then the iPhone (and probably the Galaxy) would be last on the list.
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The goal is to kill off flash and silverlight plugins for videos, which is long overdue. Fat plugins are far worse than just DRM plugins. My only hope is now that that adobe DRM really costs money, so that it isn't adopted at much websites.
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Except for the newly-introduced Firefox DRM from Adobe [theinquirer.net] that is.
Don't you love the new double-speak.
Can you explain how this causes users to be "locked into one proprietary ecosystem or brand"?
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You sure? Have you actually installed another OS to a Firefox-based TV?
No I haven't, in theory it should be possible though. Still I don't see how users are "locked in", it's no different to any other device or appliance, if you don't like it then you can replace it, why can't you do that with these TVs?
Updates (Score:4, Interesting)
But more important is for how long, if at all, the manufacturer will support security and other updates.
Most important is if we can install a system of our own choice.
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Why is it nice to see any OS on a TV? This is how we end up with ads inserted over ads, a scenario that should never have ever plaid out but somehow it has.
Re:Updates (Score:5, Interesting)
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i'm hoping for Adblock to work on commercial TV
How will that work if ads are not coming from a different source, and are not marked somehow to be ads? Maybe this will change, but now it's a continuous stream, and yes there is an online tv guide, but that doesn't tell us anything about commercial breaks.
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Transparent ad-blocking SQUID proxy. I've done this before to handle annoying devices. They don't even know it's happening. As a side-benefit you can add in some caching, if you like, although in rare cases that sort of thing causes problems (when people dick up the pragmas.)
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I have a Panasonic smart TV. The only place it has ads is in the app store, nowhere else. If it did I would have returned it, or not bought it in the first place. Not all smart devices are maximum evil, ads everywhere all the time etc.
Mine has an OS based on FreeBSD. I use the smart features to watch YouTube pretty much every day. Various electronics and woodworking video blogs mainly. I use the network media player from time to time too. It's a good system from 2012.
Re:Updates (Score:5, Interesting)
Well I bought a Panasonic TV two years ago and have to go through a "Home" screen before I get what I want. Oh, and there are ads on this home screen. But the worst part? Ads would occasionally appear over the content when using the volume controls. That's right, hit volume up and get an ad from United Airlines!
I did manage to turn off the ads but swore I'd never buy another Panasonic.
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I have a Samsung TV from around 2008.
It isn't smart.
On Black Friday last year I added a Chromecast to it for $23. The Chromecast came with a bunch of freebies (most notably $20 in Play Store credit, which is actually useful to me).
So, either for free (or for $23, depending on how one counts), my TV became "smart."
And the only place it has ads is...gosh, I don't know that I've ever seen an ad on it.
When the Chromecast becomes woefully outdated I'll plug a different widget into the TV.
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Most important is if we can install a system of our own choice.
Who cares? No really outside of a few geeks who are likely already running out and buying dumb TVs due to the typical anti-corporate agenda type anger at company developed software, who really cares? The average consumer doesn't, and the average geek has shunned smartTVs for the ultra slow, ultra crap "smart" experience they typically bring.
The vast majority of people barely know how a SmartTV works and are happy enough when the program guide correctly displays.
The small minority who do use the Smarts are h
Re:Updates (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is in other mainstream devices, like Tivo and Android. It's not a geek thing. It's a sensible choice to make when designing high end products. Saves development costs, saves royalty costs, higher quality than most commercial embedded operating systems especially with networking and security. Why wouldn't a manufacturer want to use it?
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I wasn't making any comment on the manufacturer's choice, but rather the assertion from the GP that it is important that we can install our own OS on the TV.
The "geek thing" is the idea of being able to choose the OS having any weight on the product choice what so ever. Tinkering is a rarity amongst the consuming general populous.
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I haven't even connected my 2014 Panasonic Viera, I bought it for its awesome black level (last plasma generation)
It's connected to a media center that I built, with a nice 400mbps connections attached to it.
Yaahrr haahrrr
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Good point, for my own experience, it is nice to have a working iPlayer on the panny Viera—it makes it feel "modern"—but craptastic to keep seeing a "Myspace" ad on the home screen—makes it feel ancient. They seem to think you can just dump an "ecosystem" on these things and make it feel "smart", but it is a fine line between "useful" and feeling instead that you've just driven into a run down small town in the middle of nowhere. Talk about making your shiny gadget feel like it is obsolete
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I think we are going to need some mass consumer legal action to force the issue. In the UK the Sale of Goods Act requires devices to last a "reasonable length of time", which for cheap TVs is usually thought to be about 5 years and for expensive ones maybe 10 years. If the TV breaks down before then the retailer, not the manufacturer, has to sort it out. If it was half way through its expected life they could either fix it or give you a partial refund for lost functionality. A dead TV would get you a 50% re
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...At the end of the day I think that other than malware targets these things are gonna quickly become irrelevant, the OS will go out of date looong before the TV dies, making for a security nightmare as vulnerabilities in both the OS and the apps won't be able to be patched as the hardware will just be too weak to run anything newer, and for the consumer the apps will lose support and using the ones that come with it will be about as pleasant as trying to surf modern sites on the phone I listed above. So other than a checkbox on the side of the box? IMHO this is just fucking stupid any way you cut it.
Says you, the consumer of said hardware.
Tell me again why a manufacturer or reseller of said hardware would give a shit about their hardware becoming slightly out of date and lacking features in 2-3 years?
At the beginning of the day, they give a shit about one thing; revenue.
At the end of the day, they give a shit about one thing; revenue.
In other words, the vendors of the world already have a solution for you. It's engineered right into the product.
Just hope (Score:1)
Just hope that it can run netflix.
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Just hope that it can run netflix.
I don't understand why you have been down-modded, but:
The first smart TVs powered by Firefox OS have gone on sale today in Europe. [...] The new Panasonic TVs ship with a decent number of Firefox OS apps, including a Netflix app that supports 4K streaming, [...]
"Sorry, Netflix is not available in your country yet.": Netflix - Greece [netflix.com] (that's in Europe... and not just in Europe, but in the European Union also... actually "Europe" IS A FUCKING GREEK NAME!)
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You were probably cut off for not paying your bills.
I get the joke (me Greek, not paying bills*) but this geo-blocking effects the whole of Europe (even E.U. -COMMON *MARKET*- members, as Greece is also) - i don't blame so much the content providers because the different copyright laws make the situation problematic for them, i just mentioned it since for many Europeans (not just Greeks, but even -in a better financiall state- Northern-Europeans) this is something that bothers them.
* by the way, Greece is a poor *state* with rich *citizens* (i.e., it's our
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WE PAY OUR BILLS
That's correct. However, one of the two main problems in Greece is that folks there don't pay their taxes. That and corruption. Both the Troika and Syriza are in agreement on that.
In order for Greeks to buy Firefox TVs, or any other foreign made products, they will need hard Euros. The Greek government will probably have to resort to paying government salaries and pensions in "Scrips": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
Folks won't be able to a Firefox TV with Scrip . . . unless they pay a whole lot of
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WE PAY OUR BILLS
That's correct. However, one of the two main problems in Greece is that folks there don't pay their taxes. That and corruption. Both the Troika and Syriza are in agreement on that.
That is correct (i do not need to rephrase my statement in capital letters because it was about our loan from foreigners, i.e., our external debt - we always paid our debts). Our "bad habits" are not paying our taxes, and a special kind of corruption: the "grey" economy - for example, that's why this "25% unemployement rate" you may read is not real.
In order for Greeks to buy Firefox TVs, or any other foreign made products, they will need hard Euros. The Greek government will probably have to resort to paying government salaries and pensions in "Scrips": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
Folks won't be able to a Firefox TV with Scrip . . . unless they pay a whole lot of them. So . . . all I can wish you is good luck!
This is debatable because (and thanks to our previous right-wing goverment), currently (even with our new -3 months old- left-wing goverment), we have a surplus
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Thanks for your response. The problem with the majority of Android based smart TV is that the updates are custom written by a software company in Hong Kong. For some reason they have crippled enough of the OS to stop certain apps from working. Netflix is one of them and that's why I asked.
The reason for why I've been modded down is that there is a rogue mod out there and has been modding down me and others for no good reason.
Not Interested (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not Interested (Score:4, Informative)
YES... exactly.
Want a smart TV, get a dumb TV and put a small footprint computer on it, e.g. in my case a Mac Mini.
It gets updates, the RAM can be upgraded, it has expandable local storage, has USB ports, Bluetooth, Ethernet, Wifi
It can play games, run a massive variety of Open Source and Proprietary software.
As new protocols are developed it is far more likely to be kept up to date.
And it may well cost less.
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I have been looking for 4k TV, but have only found smart TVs for sale, so I am still waiting for reasonable priced stupid TV with 4k, as I really do not want the so called smart TV.
Currently the only way to get a non smart 4k TV seems to be a computer monitor, but the prices for the larger such are at least double the smart TV prices.
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What exactly do you want a 4k TV for?
Don't have a clue why anyone would want one. Must be the shitty resolution or something...
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I guess the question was intended to read "for whom is a 4K TV worth the price premium over a 1080p TV?"
Re: Not Interested (Score:2, Insightful)
In the long run you will not be able to avoid it. You can only buy what's on sale, and your existing devices will not last forever - or will be banned outright. Do you remember when digital extremists vowed to stop Trusted Computing at all costs? Well, now Trusted Computing hardware is present in ALL computers, Linux has to support it, and there's nothing you can do about it. Same with DRM. Big Money *ALWAYS* wins.
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On off-the-shelf desktop motherboards, TPM modules plug in a special socket or more accurately, a set of pins. It's invariably empty if you buy the motherboard, as the motherboard vendor won't field that cost. And perhaps they don't want to do a job similar to that of a CA or credit card company etc. by managing the keys anyway. So I wonder if this is how/why we got where we are today, instead of the outcome having been decided by a battle between good and evil.
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You can't really buy good TVs nowadays without those "smart" features, but that SoC hardware is pretty cheap nowadays, so I don't think it's affecting the price too much. Just buy a TV based on it's picture, price, and general physical qualities. Fortunately, you can still treat your TV like a simple monitor and leave all the media wrangling to a dedicated box, whether it's a console, Roku, Amazon Fire, or some roll-your-own PC-based solution.
who wants a smart tv anyhow? (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I want my women smart and my TV dumb. Seems like it wouldn't be very entertaining the other way around...
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Amen, there's a reason my TV has never seen a network connection. This would be it.
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Why do you read PDFs on your TV?
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Does it? Improvements required to run the browser on a TV will necessarily involve making it more lightweight and portable, i.e. less dependent on the quirks of specific platforms.
TV as computer monitor (Score:2)
Because my TV is also my computer monitor, and if my TV supports PDF, I can read comics and stuff while waiting for the computer to apply kernel updates and restart.
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Fair enough.
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I'd be happy if Adobe came out with a decent PDF reader again.
Hidden/secret Downloads. (Score:1)
Does it also download files to your TV without asking you for consent?
Like the Firefox webbrowser does [debian.org] ("libgmpopenh264.so"):
On first start, Firefox downloads the "OpenH264 Video Codec provided by Cisco Systems, Inc." plugin (which is a binary blob) and enables it automatically. This happens without asking the user for consent.
There is another class/type of software that also downloads and installs programs/libraries to your computer without asking the user for consent. You know what that is?
Malware and computer viruses.
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Looks like a solution (Score:2)
Hope it's better... (Score:5, Interesting)
...than my android powered LG 47G2 "smart" TV - it SUCKS! Google updated android in spite of everything I tried to prevent it, and broke a LOT of functions. And there's no way to back out of the "upgrades". I called LG and they blame google. Google says it is an issue with LG. I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.
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I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.
I bet it doesn't. I bet what happens is that you want an upgrade, and don't get one.
Barring a standard port like a cablecard slot that lets me plug an embedded computer into my TV, I certainly don't want a smart TV, because updates.
You can build a SFF PC for under $100 that will play 1080p video just fine. Why would you ever buy a smart TV? It's just going to be an idiot in short order.
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4k capable small form factor PCs cost more than $100 and 4k hdmi is even more rare. Eventually this will change, but probably not until Christmas 2016 if you want to wait. Meanwhile you can buy a smart tv and use the 4k smart stuff now and buy the SFF box next year and hook it to a 4k input.
How many of those 4k smart tvs actually have 4k output from their internal smartass? And when they do, how often is it actually any better than upscaled 1080p? And how many people who are buying 4k TVs can't afford a SFF PC over $100?
Updates (Score:2)
Barring a standard port like a cablecard slot that lets me plug an embedded computer into my TV
There is a standard port. It's called MHL.
You can build a SFF PC for under $100 that will play 1080p video just fine. Why would you ever buy a smart TV?
If you build a PC, you have the maintenance headache of keeping the PC's operating system and applications up to date. And in case you figure that out, which parts do you use for a $100 SFF PC so that I can recommend them to others?
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...than my android powered LG 47G2 "smart" TV - it SUCKS! Google updated android in spite of everything I tried to prevent it, and broke a LOT of functions. And there's no way to back out of the "upgrades". I called LG and they blame google. Google says it is an issue with LG. I bet the same thing happens with Firefox OS and these new TVs.
And why would we not assume this?
Think about it for a minute, you're an owner of a product with a 7-10 year useful lifespan. You're being approached by vendors that have a notorious reputation for going out of date with their products within months, sometimes sooner. Are you going to be willing to partner with any of them without being able to point the finger back at them when shit goes wrong?
And we see this shit happen all the time. It's gotten to the point where they should just call it the legal fing
Just what I needed...? (Score:5, Interesting)
* updates automatically every few weeks whether I want it to or not.
* sends *anonymous* viewing data to "improve the experience", against my will.
* changes the interface on the tv, and meanings of the buttons on the remote every 3rd or so update.
* that I will need to install adblock plus on to get rid of ads or keep them under control.
* that I will spend needless hours trying to find how to activate the power button after an update reconfigures the power button to require the auxillary button to be pushed down at the same time.
* requires that I install plug-ins that also self update just to get the tv to operate the way I want it to.
* that requires a unplug/ replug every few days as it runs out of ram and slows down channel switching and video output to a crawl.
* that as an organization, doesn't listen to it's user base and does what it wants instead.
NO THANKS, MOZILLA!!!
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I heard you can install linux on the TV instead : rolling release with systemd, KDE 5 and of course firefox. Another TV can work for the lifetime of a TV (remember when a TV lasted 20 years?). You can buy a TV that runs AIX or HP-UX, but it costs $200,000.
The z/OS TV is best, but requires expertise on your part and costs $1,000,000 + $20,000 a month fee (if you spend a bit more, you can activate the Channel Changing Processor, which is disabled in the low end configuration)
You thought this was for our benefit? (Score:3)
Wake up. Very few people care about smart TVs - they just want a TV Essentially something they can plug other boxes into and can also receive OTA broadcasts. I don't remember anyone clamouring for all this half baked UI "experience" shit and 3rd rate "apps" being squeezed into TVs but manufacturers seem to think we want it and because there are hardly any "dumb" TVs around anymore we can only buy smart TVs so the manufacturers claim its what we want. Circular reasoning , much?
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All LG Tv sets do that. They send back data to LG about your viewing habits.
And they wont let you install Adblock.
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You'd get a mod point from me if I had any, I don't want a 'smart' TV for these reasons.
How are you not locked into one brand? (Score:2)
Ads? (Score:3)
smart TV or NO TV? (Score:2)
If the choices finally come down to that, I will choose "NO TV".
I had a Westinghouse 37W1; pure monitor with every input from composite to DVI Worked beautifully for a long time until the backlight finally went out.
Settled for a "TV", but have never tried anything but HDMI-1, and don't use the audio on that (TV volume is always 0), 'cause the sound comes from the receiver.
The day it dies, if I cannot buy a TV (or, at least, large screen monitor) that works without an internet connection, then over-the-air/
No dumb TVs exist anymore (Score:2)
Not sure what "smart" exactly means, but on the tiniest TVs with bad sound and a bit of light leaking out of the LCD panel, you now have graphical menus, media player and USB port.
Seen one the other days, the owner was using it as speakers for his recent netbook (plugged to the sound RCA input meant for use along composite or VGA input) and the TV was switching off every 15 minutes, against his will.
Perhaps "smart" means internet access on top of that? Open the TV and disconnect wifi antennas. Ruin the USB
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Never worked on my phone (Score:1)
I don't want a smart TV (Score:3)
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Ok, I ran around the block. Can I watch some more porn now?
Everytime you switch it on... (Score:1)
...it'll take 5 minutes while "checking you plugins for compatibility". ...Actually I really like Firefox, just not that part.
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Firefox OS is plugin-less, which may be a good thing or a bad thing.
And it still sucks (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, but ALL smart TV's suck.
Give us a place to dock a Roku or ATV and call it done. LG/Sony/Panasonic/Etc all utterly suck at the "smart" part. actually they all utterly suck at software and firmware in general. All of them have user interfaces that are train wrecks.
These Firefox Tv's will have a bastardization all over in them. Like how SHARP shovels advertisements at you. Buy a $2600 Tv set and you have Ad's on screen unless you unplug the network and never use the smart functions. WTF is that?
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what might go wrong (Score:2)
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Let me see... A shitty "OS" on a low-powered, very cheap SoC and difficult to upgrade? What can go wrong?
Let me see... You would prefer a solid "OS" on a nicely embedded device, along with the flexibility to upgrade easily over the 5-7 year expected lifetime of a TV product?
No problem. Hope you don't mind taking out a multi-year loan for that $15,000 television set.
The words very cheap have never rung so hard in your wallet. And today, when something doesn't work due to obsolescence, the answer is to throw it away and buy a new one, thus defining the problem as there isn't a problem here, according to the ve
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It could be worse: It could be running Android.
Honestly, is more competition in this space a problem? Is your objection to "Smart TV's" in general or the OS specifically?
It's not like you can't just use a Matchstick or Roku box if you want. At worst, smart TV features are harmless.
"Powered By"? When does an OS provide power? (Score:2)
Dear TV Manufacturers (Score:2)
You're still not going to fool me. Years ago when my old CRT TV failed, I upgraded to a largish screen LCD. Works perfectly fine, still, even close to 7 years later.
I didn't need a 3d tv, or a 4k later. I really don't want a "smart" tv, despite the deliciously ironic name. I'm not going to upgrade every couple years, no matter what you try.
I half expect "smell-o-vision" next.
For the same price regular tv & HTPC (Score:2)
Which *I* control.
Even if the "Smart" tv were open to modify I wouldn't buy it. I *like* the display and the cpu being in different boxes.
The TV needs to show me a decent watchable image.
The htpc needs to fetch the video and turn it into something the TV can show me. With some pretty htpc skin if I want it.
If I want some new feature or to use some new codec that needs a bigger cpu I can get a 'new' $100-200 junkpile computer.
That seems to be plenty to watch tv do low end web & email stuff from 10 feet
toss the turtle (Score:1)