Man Arrested After Charging iPhone On London Overground Train 674
An anonymous reader writes: 45-year-old Robin Lee was arrested after he used a socket on a London Overground train to charge up his iPhone. He was handcuffed and arrested for "abstracting electricity". Robin was then charged with "unacceptable behaviour" after "becoming aggressive" when objecting to his first arrest. The Guardian reports: "Speaking to the Evening Standard, Lee said he had been confronted by a police community support officer on the overground train from Hackney Wick to Camden Road on 10 July. The Overground is part of Transport For London’s wider network that also includes London Underground and the buses. 'She said I’m abstracting electricity. She kept saying it’s a crime. We were just coming into the station and there happened to be about four police officers on the platform. She called to them and said: ‘This guy’s been abstracting electricity, he needs to be arrested’.”
Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
It doesn't stop being 10 cents' worth when it's charged in another currency.
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Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, they're wasting police time and court time, but we normally herp derps only about government waste around these parts. The private sector is infallible, and if you suggest otherwise you get called a lib.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, no. It was a PCSO, a part-time cop's helper, who made all the fuss, not the train company.
The real cops decided not to arrest the guy because they realized it wasn't worth it, but he was then such an irritating piece of shit that they re-arrested him for being a dick in a public place.
Both the fake cop and the "I need to charge my iPhone, waaa" baby are clearly morons.
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It amazes me how you can be arrested in the UK just for not being polite. I mean, a judge should have objected to that long ago as it goes against freedom of expression.
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Comparing to the US makes no sense; everyone knows US cops are the worst in the world. That's like comparing the UK to Somalia in economic power or something. Being better than the country that's the worst in the world isn't anything to be proud of.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:4, Informative)
1. They are for the cleaners, hence the sign
2. There are emergency phones & alarms for contacting help, which are preferred as they allow for easier relaying of location, and always work (unlike spotty cellphone reception)
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Informative)
On this actual subject, this is 100% LOL worthy and really did have me snigger because I'm thinking "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK ELECTRICAL SOCKETS ARE FOR YOU DUMBASS!!!".
They're for the cleaning staff to plug their vacuum cleaners in. They are clearly labelled "not for use by the public".
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, and there was a recent incident where a cleaner was arrested for plugging his vacuum cleaner into one of those sockets.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There are non-standard sockets they should have fitted instead then, so only company authorised equipment can be plugged in. Simple and pretty much 100% effective.
As for the cost, it was probably far less than 10p, especially considering the enormous bulk discounts someone like TFL will get when purchasing their electricity. Sometimes publicity about wasting electricity by leaving chargers plugged in or equipment on standby can make people believe these things guzzle power. Bottom line, it would be impossible to measure the difference in power usage between two train journeys that was caused by someone plugging in a charger.
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK? I mean, don't get me wrong, I think this is a silly reason to prosecute anyone, but the cost of a nonstandard plug is far in excess of a few pence. They have to have them manufactured, shipped and installed in all of their locations and then there is the conundrum of plugging the equipment in, too. Do they order vacuums with special plugs? Replace
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Insightful)
switch them off from the fusebox while not in use by the cleaning crew - costs nothing and is also safer
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That's assuming there is a dedicated 240V line that runs through the train from cab to cab with a single breaker.
More likely there will be a breaker in each carriage or at least each unit (set of permanently joined carriages) - and this is likely to be in some cupboard rather that with the critical system breakers in the cab. So doing this will involve a certain amount of faff.
Yes, I guess they could have designed a computer initiated isolator on the socket circuits, but someone probably said "what's the po
Re: Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:4, Funny)
Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the Leopard.
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Insightful)
So you think it is far more appropriate for them to have to develop a nonstandard plug rather than trust in the honesty and decency of the citizens of the UK?
Actually, I think a better policy would be "Need to charge your phone while you're on the train? Use our outlets!" It would be a good PR move for them and help build goodwill.
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, and then some asshole would ruin it for everyone by driving his Smart ED inside the train to charge it.
Re:Your post doesn't conform to their prejudice (Score:5, Insightful)
The best engineering is the type of engineering that prevents people from doing the wrong thing with minimum expense. Using non-standard plugs and outlets is bad engineering; it requires costly ongoing retro-fitting as new cleaning equipment is purchased, and even then passengers might be tempted to tamper with a "live" electrical outlet in an attempt to make it work with their chargers.
But I would assume that the cleaners are not going to be cleaning the train while it is in service, correct? So, you have a master electrical switch in the train for "operational" and "maintenance" modes. When the train is being cleaned, it is placed in maintenance mode, and the power outlets are live. When the train is in operational mode, the outlets are disconnected. Very quickly the passengers learn that the outlets don't work. Problem solved.
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Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing to do with the company. It was a trumped up plastic "policewoman" who got all bent out of shape.
The worst the train guard would likely do (if that train even has a guard, many are Driver Only Operation) is suggest you unplug is as the supply might be dirty and risk damaging your equipment - or perhaps, in the worst case, that your lead is a trip hazard.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Or the guard would call the British Transport Police... especially as the bloke was clearly being a wanker about being asked not to do something that he was clearly instructed not to do by the signs on the train - hence his second arrest for the crime of essentially being a twat towards the police. These are British police, not American - whilst they can be just as jumped up and over-aggressive, in general if you are polite and reasonable they will treat you in an equally polite and reasonable way.
Remember that police in England and Wales are not routinely armed (neither is the populace for the most part - the police in Scotland are trying to be an exception although no-one except the Scottish police and some politicians are particularly happy about it, and Northern Ireland which has some slightly different policing requirements to the rest of the UK) so there's a bit more emphasis on reason in confrontation. I've seen quite a few rowdy people of an evening say some pretty unreasonable and frequently unprovoked things to police officers, and in some cases actually assault them, be asked and then told not to continue doing so, be warned they risk arrest if they continue, and finally get arrested and act all surprised that they finally pushed the officer enough to do so. To any reasonable outside observer these people are actively trying to get themselves in trouble, and then get upset that they've succeeded.
That's not to say I haven't met (once or twice) an unreasonable police officer, but despite that I've never been arrested or charged or seriously inconvenienced - probably because I don't instantly insult them. I've found they're quite useful when a gang of ne'er-do-wells is kicking your head in though...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
True, here in the united states the cop would empty his gun into you for using a unauthorized outlet.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
Forgot about the miniscule amount of energy for a minute. Would it be ok to run an extension cord from an outlet on your porch to power my fan when I get overheated riding my bike near your house?
Yes, that would be fine with me.
My home has several outlets outside, if someone needed to use one for 20 min to charge their phone or run a fan, I couldn't care less.
A knock on the door to ask would be nice, but if I'm not home, I don't care.
The amount of power is trivial and not worth caring about.
There is a principle involved here.
Perhaps, but there is also what is reasonable and polite society to consider.
We're not Vulcan, we're human, and being considerate to each other is a good thing.
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We're not Vulcan, we're human, and being considerate to each other is a good thing.
Spoken like a 24 carat nerd...
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If mostly phone chargers, it's most likely 5W and you're talking about 8kWh - which is maybe $1/day.
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Now imagine your outlets are in a room filled with 500 people all day long. Still willing to let passers-by plug in?
If there are 500 people on my property every day, then I have a business of some sort, or I'm crazy wealthy.
In both cases, I'm still fine with it. It is a trivial amount of power compared to whatever I'm doing with 500 people a day.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
Tinkering with my electricity involves coming onto my property and hooking up to my shit. My property is not for public use, so approaching and standing near the power socket is trespassing; I don't want people hanging around my yard, peeking into all my shit, tromping my gardens, etc.
Tinkering with the electricity in a public space involves little more than being somewhere you're expected to be. All these people will be in the mall, on a train, or whatnot; the only nitpick is that they plug in to the socket. We've now moved from "I don't want people using my electricity because I don't want them flocking like birds on my porch and in my back yard" to "I don't want people using my electricity because I don't like it." The cost to charge smart phones is almost zero; if one million people charged their smart phones every day, the cost would be $10,000*. The cost of labeling, monitoring, and enforcement is higher, so this is a risk you accept, avoiding all other risks (costs of enforcement, bad PR, etc.) or converting it to an opportunity (good PR).
* Charging an iPhone 6 costs 47 cents per year. You might get 10% charge from one particular casual source--the Starbucks or train outlet--and even then, 5 out of 7 days per year. That's about 3 cents per year per person.
does that mean i can walk into a government building and grab some paper or just start using the photocopiers?
The cost of photocopies and copy paper is, of course, higher. Likewise, the expectation of people crowding around the copiers is lower, and drawing crowds by providing public copying may impede regular business. You can, in fact, walk into a government building and drink from the public water fountain, use the toilet, and so forth; the cost for the water is, again, low, compared to the cost of people showing up to snag a $5 ream of printer paper (charging an iPhone 6 costs 47 cents per year on average; water costs $1.50 per 1000 gallons, or 0.225 cents per toilet flush).
This is why pens are, typically, only considered property to merchants selling pens: people will walk out of your business with one of your pens all the god damn time, and it's cheapest to just keep a hundred Bic pens on the desk and not worry about it. Many businesses have their business name and trade printed on their pens so the lost supply becomes free advertising (converting a risk--casual loss of pens--to an opportunity). Other businesses--particularly banks--chain the pen to their desk (if you haven't seen this, I'm being absolutely serious).
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
It's a power-trip thing. For the arresting officer, I mean... not the phone.
So what you are essentially saying... (Score:2)
the police man was just enforcing the laws written by the legislature. He was just doing the job he was supposed to be doing.
So what you are essentially saying... is that he was "just following orders".
Too soon in the comments?
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the police man was just enforcing the laws written by the legislature.
The police have the ability in most cases to be selective in what they enforce, understanding that situations require judgement and society doesn't want an oppressive police force.
Such as getting a warning for a speeding infraction, rather than a ticket.
If you have police that selectively enforce the law you will have the problem of selective enforcement.
We already have that, and so long as it isn't based on the person (age, gender, color, creed, etc.), then it is a good thing.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently, he was arrested for stealing electricity, then "de-arrested." It sounds like cooler heads were going to prevail and just let the guy off with a warning. However, then he became aggressive and he was arrested again. You can't act belligerent towards police officers and then complain that they arrested you.
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now lets talk about that the time and resources could be used for better things instead
and side note, here they have realised that ppl might want to charge their phones\latptops\whatever so they have installed plugs for use in the overground, underground and trains
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
Not even close.
UK average price per kWH: 0.15 GBP1
iPhone battery capacity: 4.12 WH to 11.1 WH2
iPhone charging efficiency: 61%3
So assuming he fully-charged his iPhone 6 Plus, 11.1WH * 0.61 * 0.15/1000 = 0.00101565, he would have used 0.1 UK cents worth of electricity. If he was using an iPhone with a smaller battery and/or didn't charge the phone all of the way, the power consumed would be even less.
Sources:
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:4, Funny)
...he would have used 0.1 UK cents worth of electricity...
grrr.... it's "pence" not "cents".
If you're going to go all the effort of converting to GBP, you could have at least got that right, couldn't you?
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
Calling a penny a "UK cent" is an understandable slip, but your use of decimals and units seems to be spot on. Have you consider Verizon customer "care" as a career path?
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
So assuming he fully-charged his iPhone 6 Plus, 11.1WH * 0.61 * 0.15/1000 = 0.00101565, he would have used 0.1 UK cents worth of electricity.
I think your calculation is wrong. The charging efficiency normally specifies the fraction of the consumed energy that actually ends up being stored in the battery. So your calculation should be 11.1WH / 0.61 * 0.15/1000 = 0.00272950 so almost 0.3 pennies. Still not enough to make it worth charging him (though I don't know what the capacity or charging efficiency is in his case ;-).
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Informative)
No court time at all for abstracting the electricity. If you read the article (yes, I know, I know...) you'll learn that the police agreed this was a ridiculous arrest and de-arrested him ("de-arrested" is more of a statement than simply releasing him without charge -- pun unintended; it means that the arrest should never have happened, and the arrest is struck from the legal record so it won't give the person difficulty getting visas etc.)
He's still in trouble for acting like a dick when he was arrested, though.
Re:Tax dollars at work. (Score:5, Funny)
Yup. Let's spend thousands of dollars worth of man-hours and paperwork and court time over 10 cents worth of electricity.
RTFA - this is not about something trivial as that; this guys was ABSTRACTING electricity!! Fortunately they got him before he got to the extended metaphors; a close call. Too damn close for comfort!
iPhone (Score:5, Insightful)
Would it be any different if he was charging a cheap Nolkia - or even his shaver?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Re:iPhone (Score:5, Informative)
Re:iPhone (Score:5, Funny)
One does not charge a Nokia, one simply unpacks it and then uses it while it refuses to die despite all your best efforts.
Read TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
We were called to Camden Road London Overground station on Friday 10 July to a report of a man becoming aggressive when challenged by a PCSO about his use of a plug socket onboard an Overground train.
While arrest may have been an overreaction, the guy was using a socket clearly marked not for public use and then seems to have become aggressive when asked to unplug his phone. Maybe he needs to look at his own behaviour as well.
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Re:Read TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
We were called to Camden Road London Overground station on Friday 10 July to a report of a man becoming aggressive when challenged by a PCSO about his use of a plug socket onboard an Overground train.
While arrest may have been an overreaction, the guy was using a socket clearly marked not for public use and then seems to have become aggressive when asked to unplug his phone. Maybe he needs to look at his own behaviour as well.
Yep, I'll bet it unfolded something like this:
Hobby Bobby asked him to unplug his phone, instead of unplugging his phone he decided to give the PCSO some lip and it became a battle of egos after that.
This could have been easily avoided by not having an attitude. The problem wasn't using a mere 10 pence of electricity, rather the antisocial behaviour that followed being asked to unplug his phone.
Re:Read TFA (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem wasn't using a mere 10 pence of electricity, rather the antisocial behaviour
You fucking cunts and your ASBOs. Go fuck yourself, go fuck your mother, and die in a fire. And to quote gstoddart [slashdot.org] (one of my favorite lines on Slashdot lately):
Shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker and tits. Fuck you, fuck off, go the fuck away, and don't make me tell you again.
Am I doing it right? Thankfully, I live in a country which, in theory, protects offensive speech.
He encountered a promotion hungry plastic plod... (Score:2)
Free in Barcelona (Score:3)
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Some trains have mains sockets for public use, next ot the seats or under the tables. Many trains have one per carriage only, marked "not for public use", I think because they can have all sorts of nasty voltage spikes and aren't actually guaranteed to be remotely within spec. I think they use them for cleaning when the train is stationary, usually.
I've used them plenty of times with no ill effect though.
That is (Score:2)
Ignored Posted Signs (Score:3, Insightful)
The guy ignored the signs on the outlets stating that they were for use by cleaners only, not by passengers.
The police dropped the original charge but he apparently couldn't keep from mouthing off to the officers involved about it so they arrested him again.
*Yawn*
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Exactly - he was arrested for being aggressive and mouthing off. He was originally, and politely asked, to respect the fact that this power outlet was not for customers. He didn't, he was a dick, and it serves him right. End of story.
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Yeah, fuck freedom of speech.
The UK does not have the equivalent of the U.S. 2nd amendment; that's how they get way with things like "The Right to be Forgotten" and their ridiculous libel laws, when it comes to public persons.
Also, in the U.S., he would also have been arrested for mouthing off. You are only allowed to mouth off in a "Free Speech Zone".
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First Amendment. Second is RKBA, not Speech.
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What gets me is that the idea of being arrested not for violating a law but for being a malcontent seems to have a lot of supporters in the UK. Doesn't seem like a place I'd want to live in. Not trying to be a jackass myself most of the times, but.. wow. Strange idea of freedom, really.
Abusing police officers is violating a law, genius. I doubt that there are many countries in the world where you are allowed to abuse law enforcement officers to their faces with impunity.
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*sighs*
Coming!
*brings the medication again*
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As the article says, it's driven from the track current, and is subject to abrupt phase changes when crossing between sections.
That's what you get for being pissy ... (Score:3)
That's what you get for being pissy with the police.
"Oh, I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I wasn't aware that this is strictly prohibited. No,it won't happen again. Thank you sir/ma'am." .... and continue your day like nothing happened. Not that hard, is it? But I guess this guy had to cause trouble. I bet he got what he deserved.
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That's what you get for being pissy with the police.
"Oh, I'm sorry sir/ma'am, I wasn't aware that this is strictly prohibited. No,it won't happen again. Thank you sir/ma'am." .... and continue your day like nothing happened. Not that hard, is it? But I guess this guy had to cause trouble. I bet he got what he deserved.
The whole thing could have been defused with a simple "OK" and unplugging of the device.
No need to even be polite, although that isn't a bad thing to do anyway.
Yes? (Score:2, Insightful)
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
Even in my workplace, that will get you disciplined. You at least have to get a PAT test before you can do that and it's only by the goodwill of the employer that they let you use the sockets.
Incredibly petty? Maybe. But that's not the point. And getting aggressive about it is what really gets you arrested and in trouble, you could
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Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
I stopped reading here and I'm seriously hoping you're kidding. "risked a fire"? Seriously?
Small 5W USB was recalled as a fire hazard (Score:5, Informative)
Technically it's theft. You've cost the rail company money (pittance though it may be) and potentially risked a fire by plugging an unknown device into an electrical socket.
I stopped reading here and I'm seriously hoping you're kidding. "risked a fire"? Seriously?
Apple recalled millions of their original iPhone/iPod touch chargers. The small 5W USB adapter, they were a fire hazard. They still use the design, last I checked they still put the little green dot on them that differentiated the later safer models from the original hazardous models.
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And then there's the question of how did you activate the socket because all the UK train sockets I see are keyed with a large hex-key in order to turn them on.
The ones on worst craptial connect aren't. They just have a "do not use" sign on.
As for the train companies, I have less than zero sympathy. Sure they might have lost 0.01p of electricity, but they made up for it billions of times over by concocting procedures to deny people refunds which they're due.
Re:Yes? (Score:4, Insightful)
You work at a really, supremely, fucked up place. In the sane world, newer classrooms have outlets at every desk so students can charge their laptops, at the podium so speakers can plug their laptops in, and in offices so workers can plug in their phones/laptops. And no, an electrician doesn't test every single phone and laptop before it gets plugged in because WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU FROM.
Outside of schools, public places like airports and bus stops have outlets for people waiting around. And airplanes and trains often have outlets at the seats. Perhaps you've noticed that portable electronic devices like computers and phones have become more common in recent years. That likely has something to do with the recent explosion of outlets in public places.
And perhaps -- no, almost certainly -- your school, like so many primary and secondary schools, is run by a neurotic, petty dictator who gets off on controlling every possible aspect of students' and others' behavior, and who will use any possible excuse, no matter how stupid and absurd ("fire safety"), to exercise this control.
Just curious, is your school also one of the ones where students or employees will get expelled for having premarital, consensual sex with each other?
Re:Yes? (Score:5, Insightful)
^ Lame.
Disciplined for charging a phone? You employers are retards.
No good reason why parents shouldn't charge their phones.
You are getting pissy about 0.1c worth of electricity and a risk of fire so low it's not worth thinking about.
You're a control freak and a really stupid one at that.
Switzerland (Score:2)
I do it all the time on Swiss trains. Then again, if they put a socket above every seat (on modern trains at least), I somehow expect they won't mind.
Attractive nuissance (Score:2)
Attractive nuissance.
If they didn't want people using the outlets, they'd either omit them, or use an outlet/plug design that was incompatible with standard plugs, and there wouldn't be a problem. It's not like the vacuum cleaners are being taken home and used by the transit staff, so a permanent modification wouldn't be a problem.
These would be... (Score:4, Insightful)
Stopped doing this in Los Angeles (Score:4, Interesting)
They used to arrest people in the Los Angeles subways for the same thing - but the Mayor finally stopped the ridiculous practice:
"This is simply common sense. I want our law enforcement resources directed toward serious crime, not cell phone charging."
http://www.scpr.org/news/2014/... [scpr.org]
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
FTA: did anyone else read the law cited? (Score:5, Informative)
When I clicked on the link to see the definition of "abstracting electricity", in the section on case law the offense cited was meter tampering. As in substantionally "more than a few electrons." The cost of prosecution would far exceed the cost of the electricity used. (I would also see where this particular law would apply to unauthorized taps or splices, where the power draw would be signifiant.)
One issue the article did bring up: the power at that train-car outlet isn't at all clean. If it uses external power pickup (third rail or overhead catenary) I could see where the surges, sags and dropouts would be severe enough to damage a phone or laptop, especially as the drive motors of the train, a highly inductive load, would cause very large spikes as the power pickup loses and re-makes contact. Contrast that with a long-haul train which supplies power from a locomotive generator, which shouldn't flicker at all.
So it could well be that there is a cause for action of a different sort: "We are not liable for any damage caused by plugging anything into the outlets on this train."
FTFA (Score:5, Funny)
"a 45-year-old artist based in Islington"
Get a proper job, you stupid fucking hipster.
Meanwhile, back at the point (Score:4, Interesting)
PCSO not Police (Score:3)
PCSO is a Police Community Support Officer, these are not Police Officers, they have very limited powers (they cannot Arrest somebody) and are typically wannabe that cannot cut the grade and have very limited knowledge of the law and in this case even the English language given their confusion of the semantics difference between Abstration and Extraction.
UK Trains provide charging points for laptops and mobile phones and have signs announcing this, and this is also on the national rail website . These are low power and not suitable for a heavy load like a vacum cleaner.
"WiFi and power points for laptops and mobile phone chargers are available on some trains"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/... [nationalrail.co.uk]
The guy was immediately 'de-arrested' and released by the custody Sergeant and why he will get compensation is due course for false arrest.
Re:Abstracting (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Abstracting (Score:5, Funny)
Oh. I guess it does mean what you think it means. Carry on then.
Re: (Score:2)
The UK government's use of "abstracting" fits the article exactly.
Please excuse my language
Hear, hear! (Score:2)
Language consists not of what is written in reference books, that is a mere snapshot of language use. Language is what is in daily use.
Hear, hear!
It's a perfectly cromulent use of the word!
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:abstracting electricity? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/... [legislation.gov.uk]
"13 Abstracting of electricity.
A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."
So yes, the language is precisely correct.
Technically he has also committed a criminal offence.
However, PCSOs (which are sometimes known unaffectionately at "plastic policemen" are non warranted police officers with very limited powers. Most of their arresting powers are actually the same as those available to any citizen (aka "citizens arrest") and have very limited conditions of applicability. PCSOs do have some additional powers specially granted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
However, they are a modern invention and of considerably lower status, both legally and in the public perception compared to the more traditional volunteer role of "Special Constable" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The problem here is that PCSOs generally lack common sense and seem to be power-happy. Unfortunately their warranted colleagues feel some obligation to back them up, rather than telling them to grow up, as might be applicable in cases like this.
Unfortunately for the artist, even through he has been de-arrested, he now probably no longer qualifies for the visa waiver programme for entry to the USA as the US notion of arrest is somewhat different to the English notion and the USA as far as I know does not have a concept of "de-arrest".
So actual harm has been done. No wonder the public perception of the police is falling like a lead balloon.
Re: (Score:3)
It's because of the police and the retarded law makers.
If you were drunken disorderly, walking the street drunk off your ass, the cops used to grab you and make you sleep it off in the drunk tank.
Today, they ruin your life for ever.
No wonder cops are universally hated. Police today are chosen to be drones that do as they are told, not high IQ types that can think for themselves. The laws are designed to punish everyone severely that even brush up against the law.
It will come to a head, and it is going to
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Re:He stole, he got arrested (Score:5, Insightful)
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Police Community Support Officers have no real power. They are just ordinary people, given a stupid looking uniform and a massive chip to carry around on their shoulders. So they shove their nose in where they can, try to act like they are important and have some useful purpose.
Best thing to do if they confront you is simply refuse to talk to them, and if possible walk away. They can't detain you. If they touch you it's assault and you can have them arrested. It's also not a bad idea to film them if they ha
Re:He stole, he got arrested (Score:4, Informative)
Re:He stole, he got arrested (Score:5, Insightful)
No story here.
Your absolutism costs lives. It locks people up who shouldn't be and follows them around for the rest of their lives. It also creates marginal deterrence problems. Proportional responses to violations of malum prohibitum "crimes" are called for. Proportional responses to malum in se crimes are even called for, but for malum prohibitum crimes there is no justification for absolutism.
To plug your phone into the wall should not be to get arrested, unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED." Even then, it should get a $50 civil fine and nothing on your record. What's more, it *shouldn't* be prohibited unless it creates problems.
Re:He stole, he got arrested (Score:5, Informative)
You do realise that this is exactly how it was, right? There was a sign, and it exists because plugging in might damage your equipment. From TFA:
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"unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED"
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
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"unless there is a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED"
From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
Thank you! That makes it less absurd to punish him, although I still think a civil fine is more appropriate than an arrest.
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Instead, he acted like a knob towards the PCSO who pointed out that there was in effect a gigantic sign saying "PLUGGING INTO THIS IS PROHIBITED" and subsequently to the actual police officers who turned up, so they arrested him for "being a total arse bucket in public" (or whatever the technical term is).
Obviously no one was ever going to be prosecuted for stealing GBP 0.02 of electricity.
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From the linked article:
"Electricity sockets on Overground trains are clearly marked with the words: “cleaners use only and not for public use”
The sign sounds more like "we cannot be held responsible if this destroys your device" than a hard interdiction. Besides it's a really stupid way of doing things: they should just have a switch to turn off electricity to all these switches in the driver's compartment. The drivers would just have to turn the switch on/off when taking/parking the train (they already have a checklist to go through). Then the public can safely plug in all they want, without risk of 'abstracting' electricity or damaging their eq
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Silly. Reading the article doesn't change my position; like I said, even in that case, a civil fine and not an arrest is the most that is justified. And then maybe you'll read to the next sentence of my comment, which covered that case.
Why would I read TFA when I can just put a default case at the bottom of my switch statement? :)
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Re:He stole, he got arrested (Score:4, Informative)
most of the airports and stations I use have free charging points.
The story here is someone was stupid enough to go to London then act surprised when it turned out to be a shit hole.
A lot of trains in the UK have charging points for public use. They even have wi-fi on parts of the Underground now. However, the socket in question was apparently clearly marked "not for public use". The man knew he could get into trouble, he was just a bit surprised at how much.
I mean, we're talking about the country that wants to make secure online shopping and banking illegal.
Nope. The country does not want to do that. The Prime Minister of the country wants to introduce certain measures that, as a side effect, would make secure online shopping and banking illegal, but there's no evidence that the country as a whole would like that idea if they knew what the consequences were.
The place is an international joke.
You can find crazy things about any country that makes it an international joke in the eyes of everybody else. If you are an American you should understand that everybody else thinks of US gun laws as a dangerous joke and the fact that it seems their police officers would shoot a man for stealing electricity as arrest him (if he is black) would be viewed as a joke if it were not so tragic.
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Sorry sir, we're right out of spiders.
... I've got a slug?