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United Kingdom Social Networks Technology

UK Campaign Wants 18-Year-Olds To Be Able To Delete Embarrassing Online Past 318

An anonymous reader writes: People should be allowed to delete embarrassing social media posts when they reach adulthood, UK internet rights campaigners are urging. The iRights coalition has set out five rights which young people should expect online, including being able to easily edit or delete content they have created, and to know who is holding or profiting from their information. Highlighting how campaigners believe adults should not have to bear the shame of past immaturity, iRights also wants children to be protected from illegal or distressing pages; to be digitally literate; and be able to make informed and conscious choices.
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UK Campaign Wants 18-Year-Olds To Be Able To Delete Embarrassing Online Past

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  • No (Score:5, Insightful)

    by musmax ( 1029830 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:11AM (#50202251)
    Email and posts are forever. The faster you grow up on the internets the faster you'll grow up. Actions have consequences and it is by suffering from those that we become more human and less of that thing a 18 year old is. It will be a massive disservice to both the individual and society if we don't have that.
    • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:22AM (#50202293)

      Best Solution

      How about restrict internet to 18 years or older.

      • Best Solution

        How about restrict internet to 18 years or older.

        You mean perhaps we shouldn't let our children just wander the streets of the entire virtual world utterly unsupervised?

        You speak heresy man!

        • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

          by RabidReindeer ( 2625839 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @06:42AM (#50203199)

          The irony is that these days if you let your little darlings wander physical streets unsupervised, they'll come and arrest you and take away your children leaving them traumatized because the police hauled Mommy and Daddy off to jail and the Social Services people told the kiddies that their parents were horrible abusive creatures who deserved never to be allowed to see them again.

          For doing what everyone thought was natural 20 years or so ago.

          • The irony is that these days if you let your little darlings wander physical streets unsupervised, they'll come and arrest you and take away your children leaving them traumatized because the police hauled Mommy and Daddy off to jail and the Social Services people told the kiddies that their parents were horrible abusive creatures who deserved never to be allowed to see them again.

            For doing what everyone thought was natural 20 years or so ago.

            It still is natural. It's just that most people are idiots who can't keep their nose out of your business.

    • Embarrassment is mostly a social thing . The individual does not define embarrassment . He is conditioned by the society to feel embarrassed in certain situations. Instead of wiping the internet , an effort to change social perspective seems to be the sane and more permanent thing to do .
      • Re:Embarrassment (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @02:26AM (#50202501) Homepage

        Are employers looking at Facebook also mostly a social thing?
        The problem isn't embarrasment, it's judgmental people with the power to affect your live.

        • Are employers looking at Facebook also mostly a social thing?

          Employers looking at Facebook is an anti-social thing

        • Are employers looking at Facebook also mostly a social thing? The problem isn't embarrasment, it's judgmental people with the power to affect your live.

          Yeah, we'll get right on that. I'm sure that decision makers with no judgment will become a thing. Much better if they go by what you copied into your resume than by what you actually did in public.

          • Are employers looking at Facebook also mostly a social thing?
            The problem isn't embarrasment, it's judgmental people with the power to affect your live.

            Yeah, we'll get right on that. I'm sure that decision makers with no judgment will become a thing. Much better if they go by what you copied into your resume than by what you actually did in public.

            And this is why we have privacy. That people have disconnected lives where they are one person at work and another with their friends, is fundamental to actually being able to be yourself, to be a fully rounded person. If we start being terrified that everything we do in public will be available to anyone to judge out-of-context or through their own prejudices, you effectively give up your freedom and we are forced to regress to the lowest common denominator for behaviour. What appears on the internet is no

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Unless what you did in public was done as an employee, it really shouldn't impact your professional life. Unless, of course, you care to count that cookie you snitched when you were 5 as a crime for the purposes of that little checkbox on your application. And do we really want to hire you when we see that you once got into a slap fight over who had cooties?

        • This will end once the boomers die off. Everyone has an embarrassing past. The problem is the Boomers that like to pretend their past was clean since there is no evidence and are quick to judge others. Once you can look up the HR persons trips to Cancun or your Boss's "experimental" stage we will all be on an even playing field.

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            You'll have to wait a little longer. Gen X grew up without the internet as well.

          • The boomers have begun to retire... in droves.

            Yeah, everyone has embarrassments in their past, but it's still no one's right to go combing through them. Most employers are smart enough to stick with criminal background checks at the most (because seriously, a conviction for embezzlement may be an embarrassment, but it's also something an accounting firm would want to know about before hiring someone...) I have never had an employer (or individual therein) demand to see my facebook page or try to friend me o

        • by Bengie ( 1121981 )
          Only a transitional pain. Once everyone had immature dirt, no one person will stand out more than another.
        • Considering these posts are an example of your decision making abilities, judgment and character I'd say it's useful information for employers. A good predictor of future behaviors is past behaviors. Posts about skipping work, stealing from previous employers, and other past employment is useful info for potential employers. So are posts about willingness to take on extra responsibility, actions that have resulted in positive outcomes for employers and examples of good decision making skills.
      • "an effort to change social perspective seems to be the sane and more permanent thing to do ."

        Tell us oh great social visionary, how do you plan on changing the social perspective of 7 billion people?

        • start with a 100 .These things are like a chain reaction. Remember the word facebook 10 years ago? .
      • The individual does not define embarrassment.

        That's a bit neurotic. Who defines one's emotions if not the individual? I'm not embarrassed just because someone tells me to be.

    • Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:43AM (#50202721)

      It is a shame that you were modded up so fast...

      It isn't a pretty future when you're 30 years old, being judged for the silly stuff you posted online at 15 years old...

      Everyone has a chapter in their book they don't real out loud, including you. Stuff you did at 15, you wouldn't want the world to know about, yet you want future kids to lack that same protection...

      • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @04:14AM (#50202783) Homepage

        "Everyone has a chapter in their book they don't real out loud, including you"

        Not all of us mate. Sure , I did some dumb stuff but nothing I'd be particularly embarrassed about. If a teen thinks posting pictures of their genitals or a "hilarious" throwing up incident in a bar or whatever isn't going to have future consequences then they're probably so clueless and thick that they're not going to go far in life anyway.

        Most teens are sensible, why should be protect the idiot minority from themselves?

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Regardless of how common it is,

          Most teens are sensible, why should be protect the idiot minority from themselves?

          Because they are children. Children are not adults, they are not fully responsible, and they make mistakes. That's how they learn, and we of course forgive them and mostly forget about it. We certainly don't bring up their bed wetting at age 4 all the time. It's just what kids do, and some of them don't have the best parents in the world to help them avoid those mistakes either.

          Anyway, the alternative is that a lot of people change their legal name to get away from their past.

          • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

            If you're old enough to join the army or vote you're old enough to accept responsibility for your actions. End.

        • by sjames ( 1099 )

          Or you just don't hear about it because they don't tell you. Younger teens are neurologically incapable of making good decisions about future consequences. That part of the brain is literally not wired up yet.

  • And... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    And I want a toilet seat made out of gold, but it's just not on the cards now is it?

  • by Dutch Gun ( 899105 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:21AM (#50202289)

    Kids & Teens: Don't post embarrassing photos or videos of yourself online, or put yourself in a position where others can post embarrassing photos or videos of you online. Don't think you can be anonymous online, because someone WILL recognize you or figure out who you are, given enough incentive. Consider it a valuable life lesson that you actually *can't* retract everything you do in life so easily.

    Parent: Get involved and teach your children to be responsible online. Just like in the real world, there are rules for behaving safely and responsibly online. When things go public, there's no way to retrieve those images from everyone who may have gotten a copy, and no amount of legislation is going to change that reality, however much some people may wish it.

    Legislators: Stop pretending that you can fix all the world's ills with the sweep of a pen. Start learning what IS and ISN'T possible in the online world. Or for God's sake, at least ask one of your younger tech-savvy interns before you make a fool of yourself with this sort of stuff.

    • by ruir ( 2709173 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:37AM (#50202333)
      For the legislators it is easy, it is not their money, and they can put google and the ISPs working "for free" at their beckoning. At the end of the day it is us, the end users and consumers, footing the bill as always.
    • When I was a teen in the late 90's and early 2000's I was a member on a number of forums and I had a pretty thorough presence on the 'social media' sites of the time. Yet I don't think I ever wrote something of significant embarrassing consequence to me now. I don't think it was because I was particularly mature (I wasn't, actually it was the opposite) but instead I think the nature of social media changed. Back then you would mostly be talking with a small group of like-minded friends. Anything dumb that y

    • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

      Don't [...] put yourself in a position where others can post embarrassing photos or videos of you online

      Seriously... were you ever a kid or a teen yourself, or were you born a boring old grampa?
      Doing embarrassing things is what kids do; it's how they learn what not to do.
      The problem is hypocritical people who like to pretend they never did anything embarrassing when they were kids.

    • Well, good advice, to be sure, but really, just grow up, everybody. When you are teenager, you do embarrassing things - that is what the teens are for. When we grow up, one of the things need to learn is to forgive ourselves and learn to live with having left a trail of evidence. With the right kind of attitude, it can be a great source of experience and humour; it really isn't a big deal - and it ought to be asset.

      The problem isn't that we are stupid when we are teenagers - at that age, you need to experim

    • or put yourself in a position where others can post embarrassing photos or videos of you online

      So basically don't ever be a teenager. ... ever.

      Mind you we were locked in our parent's basements most of our lives and we turned out alright right?

    • Also, control all your friends so that they don't post any information online about you. Control Google and whoever's facial recognition algorthms from auto tagging you. Control all the stuff you have no possible control over, because I don't want to consider that possibly this new technology we've invented might have really bad consequences and I can't be bothered to do anything about it.

    • someone WILL recognize you or figure out who you are, given enough incentive.

      Worse: face recognition software is getting better all the time, and it's only a matter of time before search engines and social media start tagging images. Once something or someone puts your name to your likeness online, all (or at least a good many) images with you in it can be found by typing your name into Google.

      What legislators can do is to make it very clear that private life stuff should stay out of the workplace, and not affect job applications or performance reviews. Put it on the same level

    • Kids & Teens: Don't.

      be human?

    • by gsslay ( 807818 )

      When you're a kid/teen you don't know what may be an embarrassing photo or video. That's what being a kid/teen is about. The video you put online, discussing international politics with your impeccable 12 year-old wisdom, may have been the proudest day of your life. ... 10 years later and it's a cringe-fest that makes you appear to be an idiot who's a little bit racist.

      You get older, you learn something of life, you realise that aged 12 you knew nothing, and you'd rather no-one was watching that video. I

    • Legislators: Stop pretending that you can fix all the world's ills with the sweep of a pen. Start learning what IS and ISN'T possible in the online world.

      But it IS possible to delete posts off of Social Media, the sites just don't allow it.

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      You're asking kids to behave as adults. You might as well mock a baby for pissing itself for all the good it will do.

      Remember, there was a time long ago when you saw nothing at all embarrassing about sitting in your own filth.

  • the agenda (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:37AM (#50202329)

    iRights also wants children to be protected from illegal or distressing pages

    This is the part that is the real reason. They will try to impose a government mandated filter on the Internet. Again. Give up Your rights, we are doing it for Your protection. Think about the Children! (TM)

    Also, shouldn't Apple be really cross about the name?

  • Wrong age (Score:5, Insightful)

    by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:41AM (#50202351) Journal

    Relatively little of what teens do is going to cause them problems in later life. It's what people do between about 18 and 25 that tends to screw them. Mainly because they're old enough to drink (without having to hide it) but not yet old enough to think (well).

    • Re:Wrong age (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:54AM (#50202401)
      This. Nobody is an adult at 18. Not even close. Most people don't have their cognitive act together, and any sort of capacity for rational behavior (if they're ever going to get there) until, these days, they're the better part of 30.

      But knowing to not shoot selfies of yourself being a total jackass is something that can make some sense a lot earlier than 18. If some 15 year old can know enough not to drop his pants in front of his grandmother or in front of his classroom at school, he already has what it takes to know not to do it online. He just has to be taught that. Which involves, you know, parents. Who give a damn about their kids' future.
      • But knowing to not shoot selfies of yourself being a total jackass is something that can make some sense a lot earlier than 18. If some 15 year old can know enough not to drop his pants in front of his grandmother or in front of his classroom at school, he already has what it takes to know not to do it online.

        Mod this up. (I've already posted in the thread, so I can't.)

      • If some 15 year old can know enough not to drop his pants in front of his grandmother or in front of his classroom at school,

        Why should anyone take this seriously? what needs more attention is bullying which makes kids violent ..

      • Parents showing responsibility? How can we expect this if their kids don't... er... hmm.
  • by Dahamma ( 304068 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @01:56AM (#50202411)

    Giving proper citation, my favorite quote on the topic, from News Radio:

    Joe: You can’t take something off the Internet. It’s like taking pee out of a swimming pool.

    Which seems surprising appropriate for kids doing stupid things...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @02:12AM (#50202461)

    I'm 19, and I have to say this is incredibly moronic. Granted, I've posted tons of embarrassing stuff when I was younger, but that's part of growing up. I learned not do that again and moved on. Just because you said something stupid once doesn't mean people get to remove archived internet events for you. I'm so sick of my worthless pussy generation, always being "triggered" or having their feelings hurt because they're not the center of attention. I mean holy fuck, most of us are in our late teens and early 20s. Grow the fuck up.

    • I'm 19, and I have to say this is incredibly moronic. Granted, I've posted tons of embarrassing stuff when I was younger, but that's part of growing up. I learned not do that again and moved on. Just because you said something stupid once doesn't mean people get to remove archived internet events for you. I'm so sick of my worthless pussy generation, always being "triggered" or having their feelings hurt because they're not the center of attention. I mean holy fuck, most of us are in our late teens and early 20s. Grow the fuck up. .

      Agreed. Just goes to show wisdom isn't soley the result of age (it sure isn't an automatic result)

      I'm a lot older. I did and thought a lot of things things in the past that I'm not proud of. Wiping out the evidence doesn't change the fact they happened. Embarrassment is awareness of that. I learned from the embarrassment - that I am privately proud of

      If people want to judge me by past history - that's their right (if they're over 30 they deserve the opinions they hold), it doesn't mean it's right, or it's a

  • They think making laws and demanding things changes reality. It does not. It can lead to people presenting themselves as complete idiots to the world though.

  • Senior Citizens (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sooner Boomer ( 96864 ) <sooner.boomr@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:52AM (#50202737) Journal

    The same rules should apply to old people. I'm getting cranky and I just don't give a fuck sometimes...

  • by Stolpskott ( 2422670 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @04:39AM (#50202843)

    For those of us who went through our teenage years before the internet, the records were mostly out of reach - parents pulling out embarrassing baby/child photos to show a girlfriend/boyfriend, childhood friends with unfortunately good memories recounting stories about embarrassing behaviour, tattoos that we regretted but could generally cover up, and for the more adventurous of us the juvenile criminal records that resulted from pranks or misbehaviour are the kinds of things we deal with.
    The current generation are going through all of that while also having an almost uncontrollable urge to post every iota of their lives online. Somebody with the ability to step back and think "will I regret this tomorrow/next week/next year/at a job interview" would probably not do a lot of the things that end up being posted, but today's teenagers are no better at consequence analysis than we were when we were that age. The difference is that today the records are more permanent and more visible.

    Personally, I do not believe that people should be able to airbrush their past to this degree, even though as adults we all do it up to a point - after all, rewriting a resumé so it is still basically true but puts you in a better light is a common tactic before applying for jobs, and keeping some of your more embarrassing secrets is natural - we all want people to see the good parts, and we want to hide the bad parts. That will be harder for teenagers in the digital world. But rather than allowing children to erase the past and thus escape the consequences of their actions, I would prefer to educate them about those consequences and how long they can go on for. It means they have to grow up a bit more quickly in some ways, but better that than to teach them that you can do bad or embarrassing shit and then rewrite history after the fact.

    • But rather than allowing children to erase the past and thus escape the consequences of their actions, I would prefer to educate them about those consequences and how long they can go on for.

      No. This is the same line of thinking that leads to people who commit often victimless crimes being unable to vote or get decent jobs ever again, every sentence becomes a life sentence.

      What we're looking at here is the dark underbelly of ubiquitous connectivity and creative media access. For high minded folks it's a good thing, it lets them get their message out and expose problems, or share their work without having to doff their caps to gatekeepers. For the vast majority of humanity however it's a potenti

  • It's all about the kids, right?

    Oh wait - I think I took a cynicism tablet instead of the happy pill this morning. Bloody Abbott [wikipedia.org] has been messing with the public health system again. He used to be funny until he pushed Costello [wikipedia.org] out of the limelight.

  • I'm against it.

    Dumb little shits will be dumb little shits all their life, even if the evidence of their earlier misdeeds is erased.

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      Dumb little shits will be dumb little shits all their life

      Thanks for proving that.

  • I find the three 5 star posts in this thread (so far) sad.

    The points come across as sanctimonious and the tone is scolding. Scolding to the kids for doing something the authors deem stupid; sanctimonious towards parents who apparently don't care about these stupid kids, or they would have raised them differently and therefore produced different outcomes.

    I know the tech sections of the internet skew heavily towards very young, white males, and this may account for the high rating of these posts, but they all

    • If only I had mod points right now ....

      Making mistakes is part of the human development process. Punishing every action for now and evermore may lead to well disciplined drones but won't help society as a whole. Do we want 100% conformity to some sort of norm with nobody pushing boundaries -- or one where the stretching of possibilities opens up whole new opportunities?

      If every activity is going to be monitored, recorded and analysed for ever more [as the current trends in online operations are going] and

    • by dcw3 ( 649211 )

      If we had a post of the month award, I'd be voting for this one.

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      Mod this up!

      If I had to name the modern trends that need to go away it would be the cultivation of fear and the taste for eternal punishment for all.

  • I don't know. Where I live, 18 year olds are pretty much still stupid kids. They may have legal majority status, allowing them to vote, sign contracts, drive, drink and smoke, but many still have some years of their most stupid antics and moronic postings ahead of them. More often than not precisely because they are now allowed to legally drink alcohol and not listen to their parents any more.
  • This UK citizen would rather under-18's didn't do shit and/or post about it online such that might later affect their lives.

    Take some fucking responsibility for yourself from about the age of 10/11, as the law states, and if you cock up, learn to live with the consequences.

    Sure, we'd all like a time machine that could erase certain mistakes but why the hell should we legislate some cyber-time-machine that actually removes indiscretions posted publicly?

    Not only that, it just won't work. You can't just erase

  • ... we really want be able to delete every stupid thing that happened before we were 30. Especially those political posts.

  • Once these idiotic teens who post embarrassing things on the net reach the age and station where they are the hiring managers they would be more forgiving of the applicants with embarrassing on line history.

    It is only in the interregnum it is an issue.

  • Only post what you're okay with people seeing and if you're posting something you don't want seen... then work under false names.

    My social networking nonsense is compartmentalized. My names never link back to a person unless I want them to... and then I make a point of not doing anything on line with those identities that will attract controversy.

  • Now do you see why Randi Harper and her "Code of Conducts" aren't conducive to actually helping anyone? I'm in my 30s, contributing member of society. I have a job, a kid, a wife. But god save me if shit I said when I was 14 on IRC was published. I was 14. I couldn't imagine where I'd be if my life was ruined by dogpiling for some stupid tweet I made.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04... [nytimes.com]

    http://www.npr.org/2015/03/31/... [npr.org]

    http://www.npr.org/2015/04/01/... [npr.org]

    Thankfully I found Slashdot instead of 4Chan (or what ever t

  • "iRights also wants children to be [...] able to make informed and conscious choices."
    Seriously?

    And then what, magically lose that ability at age 18 like the rest of the plods online?

    Actions. Have. Consequences.
    A two year old can learn that easily, if the consequences are proximate to the cause.
    How about making every post made by a 'child' immediately and publicly available? At least there would be
    a clear result from postings, instead of the illusion of privacy that seems to promote irresponsible

  • by oneandoneis2 ( 777721 ) on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @08:09AM (#50203591) Homepage

    A conversation about the internet that is long, long overdue: Is what we *have* what we *want*, and if not, what can be done about it?

    What we HAVE is a global network that will never, ever let you forget that silly thing you did whilst young and drunk that everyone thought was so hilarious at the time.

    Is that really what we want?

    Something as simple as dropping obscure older material down the search rankings would have a whole bunch of potentially nice effects. It would make the embarassments of your past harder to find. It would make shitty documentation for older programming languages to finally get superceded by the more modern stuff (if you've never encountered some novice following "best practice" from a document that was written when CGI ruled the web, I envy you). It would leave the content as available as ever, but drop the older and largely less-relevant stuff out of circulation.

    The instant flood of responses being trotted out here along the lines of "Teh internet nevar forgets! n00b! l0l!!" are a sad reflection of how little thought people want to give a genuinely interesting question: Is the internet that's evolved over the past few decades really as good as it can be? And I'll be honest, if you really can't think of a single thing that could be done to improve it, I submit you're too ignorant to have an opinion on the subject.

    So if we assume that some changes *could* make it better.. what's your proposal for deciding what those changes are, and how they should be made? Right now, the only mechanism going seems to be not-very-well-informed politicians proposing laws and waiting for them to be either passed or laughed down.

    If you've got some ingenious way of working out how to make things better, start talking about it. Otherwise, maybe just sit down and shut up whilst other people try.

  • In theory it is a good thing that everything you do online stays online forever. Including all the stupid posts, butt photos, kisses, etc. This, as some think also on /., will help you to "grow up faster", implying that learning how to behave in public has something to do with growing up (yes it is a small, but not insignificant part). As we all do and did a lot of stupid things in our life the remaining content will just illustrate the process of becoming an adult. And we all know that and therefore we do

  • 'What happens on tour, stays on tour' is a well known saying. This is what these campaigners desire for minors (that is, what happens online for minors disappears when they become adults.)

    'What happens on the internet, stays on the internet' is the practical reality. There will need to be some kind of enforceable government certification of social medias which will do such deletion, and a means to prevent other sites getting hold of content. Can't see that happening anytime soon.
  • And then, it's all cleared up? Fun.

  • This sort of thing is a natural progression of labeling every little benefit or service or obligation or arrangement a "right". No.

    A "right" is something that others' actions may not infringe - something that if they do, you can defend yourself and/or the state will defend you from. It is actionable.

    Contrasted to that, a "right to water" or "right to health" or "right to happiness" or "right to have data edited/erased" is a putative obligation upon others to do something for you. That's not a "right".

  • ... are they suggesting it should eventually become illegal for people to simply *remember* anything embarrassing that somebody else did when they were kids?

    That'd really be a downer for "open mike" at weddings, where opportunities to embarrass the bride and groom abound.

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

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