Pesticides Turn Bumblebees Into Poor Pollinators (acs.org) 93
MTorrice writes about a new study that suggests neonicotinoids, one of the most widely used insecticides in the world, turn bumblebees into poor pollinators, leading to lower yields of apples and other plants. Chemical & Engineering News reports: "Neonicotinoid pesticides have been blamed for declines in bee populations worldwide. The chemicals don't kill bees, instead neonicotinoids impair the insects' abilities to learn, navigate, forage for nectar, and reproduce, according to studies published over the past several years. Now, researchers report that bees exposed to the pesticides also become less effective pollinators for crops. The study is the first to demonstrate that neonicotinoids can decrease the quality of a food crop by affecting bee pollination. About 30% of our food comes from crops, including fruits, nuts, seeds, and oils, that depend on insect pollinators, according to Dara A. Stanley of Royal Holloway, University of London, who led the new study. 'Basically,' she says, 'you can't have a balanced diet without insect pollination.'"
Re:Translation : (Score:4, Informative)
From TFA:
“Until now, all of the focus has been on the impact of neonicotinoids on bees themselves,” she continues. “But obviously the reason why we’re interested in bees is because they provide pollination services.”
Rough translation, this study examines how neonicotinoids affect bee behaviour, and not just whether they kill or injure them.
Re:Translation : (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, they've known for several years that minute quantities of neonicotinoids cause bees to 'dance' incorrectly; where the dance no longer correctly directs other bees to their discovery of nectar. The loss of food may be partly responsible for Colony Collapse Disorder. It's not surprising that this would also lead to reduced pollination.
Re: (Score:2)
More specifically, a substance meant to poison insects, poisons insects.
Re: (Score:2)
It was known in farming lore back in the 1990's. The Times country section had a comment by a farmer about how bees would become slow, dozy and crash into things just when bright yellow fields of crops were being sprayed with pesticide that gave a thick oily smell to the air.
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody has ever thought you could spray any insecticide, with ONE exception perhaps*, and not affect bees. While neonics are supposed to be less hazardous to bees than most everything else if you spray bees with it they'll drop dead instantly. They're not the most effective, but they'll kill 'em right quick. It says so right on the labels. Dinotefuran, imidicloprid, acetamprid, etc... they're all going to say do not use when bees are or will be present.
*: Bt would be the exception.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. In Psychology, given the extreme stupidity of those that deny this effect.
Re: (Score:2)
Who the hell would be denying that spraying bees with poison is going to have a negative impact? I don't think that I've heard anyone say that, not even stupid people online. Well, not seriously at any rate. I've probably seen someone say it sarcastically but I don't think anyone has ever made an actual attempted argument for such that I have seen. (Not to say it didn't happen but that I've never seen it.)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Awww (Score:5, Insightful)
Because people want all food, cheap, unblemished in any way, all year round, no matter how tasteless or lacking in nutrition.
Re: (Score:2)
I eat maggots (Score:2)
The apple maggot fly (AMF) lays eggs and little tiny larvae burrow through it leaving brown tracks. I have no problem eating those apples, but most of those apples fall off the tree before I get to them, and the remaining apples rot after a short time in storage.
Acetamiprid has allowed me to have a halfway decent apple harvest from a home orchard for two years now. It doesn't seem to kill the adult flies so the fruit is still blemished, but it appears
Re: (Score:2)
There were a couple of dozen fruit trees in what used to be a clearing on my property. A neighbor advised me to consult an arbor-something-or-other tree specialist instead of just leaving them there. I hired him and he came in, cleared the overgrowth, and then trimmed the trees. I get *some* fruit now (pears and apples) but not a whole lot but they're a full order of magnitude larger than what they were when I first build the house and discovered the old orchard.
The historical society, down in the village,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Awww (Score:4, Interesting)
Because neonicotinoids are among the safest overall pesticides that have ever been developed. They very effectively target insects, but have very minor effects on mammals. The LD50 of Safari is over 2000 mg/kg of body weight in rats. They're rated category III by the EPA, which means 'slightly toxic and/or slightly irritating.'
The big problem is with bees. Neonics are supposedly 150X more lethal to bees than to any other insect genera.
The EU has already banned neonics (possibly because population density is higher and bees may be more shared than in the US); the US is dragging their feet.
Re: (Score:1)
Well, a bee can't drink a shot glass full of water in less than a second, but humans can, with no ill effects, so your argument doesn't really have much merit no matter how you want to look at it.
Re:Keep smoking, folks (Score:5, Informative)
Smoke isn't "good" for bees. It just triggers behaviours that make them docile.
The smoke masks the scent produced by guard-bees, so a bee-keeper's intrusion produces less alarm. Also, the smoke tricks the bees into thinking the hive is on fire, so they gorge on the honey, and become distended and less able to sting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Maybe you didn't pick up on the connection: neonicotinoids. But yes, "smoke" isn't good for the bees. The neonicotinoids impair their "abilities to learn, navigate, forage for nectar, and reproduce."
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe you didn't pick up on the connection: neonicotinoids.
LOL. Yes, I did miss that. Thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
Given that most humans today are already terminally stupid, I doubt we would see much effect. Then maybe, this is the effect...
Poison is bad for living things (Score:1)
If it doesn't kill you, that doesn't mean its good to use in small amounts. Never trust perverse market incentives to pay for honest scientific research.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Spare us the hype (Score:1)
If the pesticides are a problem, let's address it. There's no need to pretend we're in for a future "without insect pollination". If this phenomenon is a real problem that can be demonstrated, then why hype it up? Why exaggerate?
Farmers know how to grow food. If some problem threatens their ability to grow food, they'll find a solution to the problem.
Re:Spare us the hype (Score:4, Insightful)
With all due respect to farmers, they'll probably need some help with this. They know how to grow food, but not necessarily how to create better pesticides.
And what's with the claim of hype or exaggeration? The full context of what you quoted, in TFS and TFA, is:
About 30% of our food comes from crops, including fruits, nuts, seeds, and oils, that depend on insect pollinators, according to Dara A. Stanley of Royal Holloway, University of London, who led the new study. 'Basically,' she says, 'you can't have a balanced diet without insect pollination.'"
I see no hype or exaggeration here. Just rational and accurate communication.
Re:Spare us the hype (Score:4, Insightful)
About 30% of our food comes from crops, including fruits, nuts, seeds, and oils, that depend on insect pollinators, according to Dara A. Stanley of Royal Holloway, University of London, who led the new study. 'Basically,' she says, 'you can't have a balanced diet without insect pollination.'"
I see no hype or exaggeration here. Just rational and accurate communication.
Truth can be hype to some folks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The implication is that we may someday be "without insect pollinators". We won't. It's hype - hyperbole - an exaggeration for effect -- to imply a future condition "without insect pollinators". Perhaps that's not what the scientist intended, but now the words have been quoted and re-quoted in a different context.
People who grow "fruits, nuts, seeds, and oils" know what they are doing. If they need insect pollinators, they'll make sure they have insect pollinators in the right quantity, with the right po
Re: (Score:2)
If they need insect pollinators, they'll make sure they have insect pollinators in the right quantity, with the right pollinating ability, to make their crop a success.
I never knew that nut farmers had such godlike powers.
I wonder why they're not using those powers right now to bring the perfect amount of rain to California, though.
Re: (Score:2)
China's apple growers are hand pollinating apples
https://www.chinadialogue.net/... [chinadialogue.net]
Pears: http://thebeephotographer.phot... [photoshelter.com]
Great Britians bee loss
http://www.collective-evolutio... [collective-evolution.com]
And on and on, and on.
I keep writing about it, but seriously, Humans cannot defy nature or physics just because we feel like it. Bee death denials
Re: (Score:2)
I never knew that nut farmers had such godlike powers.
It's called a telephone. You call up the bee supplier. He arrives with bees. Hives are setup near your crops. Bees pollinate. Later, the bee supplier picks up the hives and invoices you for the bee rental.
I wonder why they're not using those powers right now to bring the perfect amount of rain to California, though.
This is called irrigation.
You must think farmers just have big plots of land and food crops just randomly happen to grow there.
Re: (Score:2)
You call up the bee supplier. He arrives with bees.
That works great.
Unless he doesn't have any god-damned bees any more. Have you been living under a rock for the past five years?
Re: (Score:2)
The bee supplier knows how bees make more bees. When he wants more bees, he raises more bees.
None of this is random chance.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you trying to be obtuse?
How does the bee supplier raise more bees if they have all been poisoned?
Re: (Score:2)
He makes a phone call to another bee supplier and gets bees. Bees reproduce more bees. With time and care, his hives end up full of bees.
Re: (Score:2)
I give up. You're as dense as a brick.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope. That's actually what would happen.
Farmers know what they are doing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Spare us the hype (Score:5, Insightful)
If the pesticides are a problem, let's address it. There's no need to pretend we're in for a future "without insect pollination". If this phenomenon is a real problem that can be demonstrated, then why hype it up? .
Because I'm certain that we can find some scientist, probably paid by the industry making Neonicotinoid pesticides, who will deny a problem, and a whole lot of people will hop on that bandwagon, just like global warming deniers, vaccine deniers, evolution deniers, moon landing deniers, tobacco and lung cancer deniers, and all the other happy little deniers out there. In 21st century America, Opinion trumps science every time.
Teach the controversy!
Re:Spare us the hype (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Or you could you know look at the data. There is a lot more than just this study about this. Fact is the data is not nearly as clear cut as the summary claims. What is clear is how crops handle not using pesticide, they don't. You know organic crops use pesticide right? You think you can just ask all the insects to be nice to your crop just because you decided it organic?
So you are saying that an ihnsecticide won't harm bees? Or do we just give up and do like China is doing now, and have peopel pollinate crops?
And, you actually wrote"
What is clear is how crops handle not using pesticide, they don't. /p>
SRSLY? Are you just trying to lull me into complacency, laughing, by posting the stupidest comment on the web ever?
So plants did not exist until we invented insecticide?
Not much point in arguing with someone who would post that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
because people like you deny there is a problem until its too late and just assume that 'the farmers' will fix it before its too late, when most 'farmers' are big corporations who care more about next quarter profit statements than the long term production of crops.
It's the farmers ... (Score:2)
... I feel sorry for. They'll need plenty of financial compensation for this fuckup.
Re:It's the farmers ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Neonics have been in popular use since the 90's and increasing every year. If the use of them was hurting yield (it isn't) farmers would have noticed by now. They're using them because it increases yield in a cost effective manner and it's not a simple story.
Neonics are useful because they're deliverable in powder form, you can coat a seed with it, and it'll protect the seed from insects while germinating. After that the plant will take up the chemical to provide some systemic activity for a period of time. This helps the young plants get established. After about 30 days they're gone and not doing anything.
They started being used in the 90's for field farming because you could seed at a lower rate, but seed is, generally, very cheap so it wasn't too common. Pumpkins? Sure. Corn? No way -- too cheap of seed. When GMO corn, soy, cotton, etc came along THEN you saw a big uptick in neonics as it was now beneficial to protect those seeds as the GMO crops were fairly expensive seed.
Apiaries (bee keepers) might be taking a bit of hit but that's just part of dropping your bees off at a farm where a simple mistake can kill most of them. One entymologist I've heard speak on this pointed out a farm that killed a bunch of rented bees with vegetable oil... and yes vegetable oil is an insecticide. Another killed a bunch with RoundUp, an herbicide, but too much will kill a bee. Pretty much anything will kill a bee. The fact that neonics aren't terribly fatal to them is amazing, and public resistance to them confounds me and generally every other guy that's donned a chem suit and went to town on bugs. The alternatives are generally horrible to bees. Push back on neonics is going to result in more pyrethroids, carbamates and organophosphates. Every single one is toxic to bees, horribly so, and carbamates and organophosphates are bad news for humans.
Re: (Score:2)
Mosanto should get in the business of GM bees?
Newsflash (Score:3, Funny)
Irony (Score:4, Informative)
Fabulous. (Score:2)
100 percent (Score:3)
Correction: 100 % of our food comes from crops. What do you think that steak was eating before landing on your plate? Also, inefficient as hell, but steak does taste nice.
Re: (Score:1)
Sounds logical (Score:2)
Pesticides harm pests. Bees are pests. Pesticides harm bees. And we're done.