UK's National Crime Agency Publishes Crazy Cyber-Crime Warning Signs (oomlout.co.uk) 151
Blacklaw writes: The UK's National Crime Agency, formerly known as the Serious and Organized Crime Agency, has published a list of warning signs that supposedly indicate a child may be heading toward a life of cyber-crime. The list includes late nights and showing any kind of interest at all in programming, even as the UK government pushes coding into the national education curriculum.
Time, once again, to post... (Score:5, Funny)
Is Your Son a Computer Hacker? [adequacy.org]
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No, it's totally real! Read down to question number 8 where it talks about the esteemed Lunix operating system.
FTFY - after reading that article i can now consider myself well informed on hacking, this i believe is the correct spelling.
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it is if your hardware is really old..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Sadly, no. Also, the writer sounds like he was a shill for Intel and Microsoft.
BTW, my daughter said, sarcastically, she's glad she's not at risk.
Also, FWIW, both my parents were avid Castle Wallenstein / Doom / Quake players. Not sure what they play, now.
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Man, adequacy.org. A blast from the past from a time when trolls were real trolls.
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Found one!
Re: Time, once again, to post... (Score:1)
Child spending too much time on the computer?
"explain the consequences of cyber crime".
Not crazy at all.
stupid adults (Score:5, Insightful)
PORN.
NERD.
soooo much PORN.
PORN.
PORN.
PORN.
PORN.
NEXT!
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You mean like using XML as a freakin' database?
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XML has been a huge success, maximizing billable hours for millions of consultants, solutions providers, and developers alike. A rising tide that raises all boats, it has positively impacted the hardware industry as well, allowing them to sell billions in storage, processors, and memory upgrades.
You mean like using XML as a freakin' database?
This ... is ... genius! Just a few of these solutions could increase the demand for developers to such a significant degree that salaries would rise even in popular outsourcing nations. The value you could extrac
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If you're going to use a flat file for simple data storage, it might as well be structured.
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Programming : Computer based research, learning, applied problem solving, sense of accomplishment, requires accessing specialist communities that use arcane taxonomies.
Hacking : Computer based research, learning, applied problem solving, sense of accomplishment, requires accessing specialist communities that use arcane taxonomies.
Oh wow, you're right. No fucking overlap at all.
Re:stupid adults (Score:5, Insightful)
If your kid is making income online from porn, then you have other issues you should be worried about.
Other than that, these warning signs probably describe the teenage years of a large chunk of people on Slashdot.
They basically say "if your teenager uses a computer, is moody, and keeps odd hours you should totally report him as a criminal just in case". The entire thing sounds like it was written by some clueless idiot who doesn't know anything about the life of a teenage nerd.
It's really long on hysteria, and really short on substance.
Re:stupid adults (Score:4, Informative)
Actually it says "Many of these are just normal teenage behavior...showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities."
It doesn't say report them. To paraphrase, it says 'pay attention to what your children are doing. Be involved in their lives.' You know, normal decent parenting behavior.
Re:stupid adults (Score:5, Interesting)
Do people still do that?
It always seems to me they just leave them alone to become feral little beasts that everyone else has to put up with.
I can't tell you how many people I have seen who can barely control their own kid in public because it's a screeching howling little ball of evil which won't take no for an answer, and that's while they're still young enough to be in a stroller. I can only imagine the vicious little psychopaths by the time they're a few years older.
Then again, I don't have or want kids, so maybe I'm just a little biased.
But I figure by the time you're begging, pleading, and resorting to bribery, you have already lost the battle and your kids are going to walk all over you for the rest of their lives.
And then of course there's the fact that a lot of the people I see with kids were left to be feral little balls of evil by their own parents and haven't got the slightest idea of what to do.
You need a license to own a dog, but any moron can have a kid.
How odd. Can only imagine? Why only imagine? (Score:1)
If you can't tell me how many people you've seen unable to control their kids in public, but can only imagine how those children are when they're a few years older, doesn't that suggest that the children are in fact better when they're older? That something, unseen by you, is in fact working?
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"That something, unseen by you, is in fact working?"
yeah its called the Juvenile Justice System (or lack of access to kids in that "few years older" bracket)
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I can't tell you how many people I have seen who can barely control their own kid in public because it's a screeching howling little ball of evil which won't take no for an answer, and that's while they're still young enough to be in a stroller.
You're right that 90%+ of the time, this is a parenting problem. When I had a kid, I was determined not to be "that guy." Infants obviously don't understand discipline, but once your kid gets to be a toddler, he/she will generally understand rewards.
I still remember the first few times I took my son out to a restaurant, which wasn't really regular until he was over a year old. We chose a family "diner" place so it wouldn't be too disruptive no matter what happened. But maybe 2 out of the first 5 times
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Young kids throw tantrums. It happens, and there's nothing you can do about it at the time (except remove the kid from the place). What a parent can do is reduce the chance that the kid will throw a tantrum later. Our technique was to never give in to a tantrum, and to reward good behavior. (Once, when our son announced, "I don't want to be here [the antique shop] any more," I took him to a place that served ice cream. A tantrum would have put him in the car, and not with an ice cream cone.)
So, wha
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It doesn't say report them.
Yet.
Anything oyu Brits haven't turned into a crime or someone to spy on to make certain they, you know, do right things.
good parenteering (Score:2)
You may discover you have common interests.
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Who do you think is maintaining those sites?
SysAdmin (Score:1)
Actually, where I used to SysAdmin, several of the other senior admins were from former "adult" sites (and one dude that worked on a "body modding" site). It seems that these are fairly good places to "cut your teeth" as they often deal with a decent amount of traffic, interesting technology, and they tend to have decent turnover (not necessarily because they're a bad gig, but because many prefer to move to more "socially accepted" jobs).
That's not to say a 14-yr-old should be sysadmin for a hardcore adult
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Over the centuries, porn has driven a lot of innovations. Not something my priest friend really likes, but it happened and happens anyway.
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Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing?
So were I and my girlfriend. So did we. We are now senior product developers (and team leaders) in highly rated companies.
Do they have irregular sleeping patterns?
Both my daughter and I are diagnosed as being nocturnal. We are forced to function in a world of diurnal people. Of course we have irregular sleeping patterns.
As a kid, I did a lot of camping with the only technology brought along being flashlights and walkie-talkie 2-way radios. We minimized using the flashlights and radios. We even put out our fire at sunset. Did not "reset" m
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Are they interested in coding? NERD.
Do they have independent learning material on computing? They have access to the internet so yes.
Have they become more socially isolated If they have an interest in coding this would explain this. (see definition of nerd)
All of these can can be attributed to normal teenage behavior. Although they say that you should only start paying attention if your child exhibits 3 or more, signs. Apart from you should monitor your children anyway to some degree anyway. The
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I love that Independant learning is a problem (Score:5, Insightful)
In a way I think that the worst nightmare for traditionalists is if kids start to learn more an more from uncontrolled resources. To a card carrying members of The System they can't think of anything worse than a way for people who won't play by the "rules" to be able to succeed. There are many people who go through life building up a perfect checklist of a resume which includes going to the proper schools. Online learning threatens this to the core.
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Re:I love that Independant learning is a problem (Score:5, Funny)
And assembly language could indicate a tendency toward machosism.
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I write directly in opcodes, what does that tell you?
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that you're very macho?
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Yeah, that will do ... nothing noticeable most of the time.
B4 4C CD 21
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No, it's not. It's close, but there are a few things most assemblers do for you that you have to do yourself if you key machine language in in hex.
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That you don't know that writing assembly language is writing directly in opcodes.
The later Macro Assemblers, even as early as the 1960's, where quite advanced over writing in Hex Opcodes. Which I have done, the first Microcomputer chips didn't have any high level language compilers yet, or even any assemblers at first.
Macro means being able to define code blocks by a symbol name and call them by symbol. Later versions even supported arguments for what was later called Procedures. They were much more usable than the kids now think. Many of the ideas used in modern high level languages ac
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Lisp and Forth are symptoms of people who do things a different way, and therefore should be watched.
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Over the years, we gave our daughter 4 Lego Mindstorms sets (and lot of of other Lego), 3 old laptop PCs, several Arduino boards, 2 Make: Controllers and a lot of other electronic, mechanical and computer related stuff. She participated in FIRST Lego League and FIRST. (She's now an engineering student at a nearby university.)
Even the private school was not enough of a challenge for her. "Independent Learning" has been her life. And has a good social life (many friends, band, drama club, etc). And a natural
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So, looks like the UK NCA thinks our daughter is on track to become an empress of the cyber crime underground?
On the bright side, she'll have a job.
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Too late. She's over 18, a student at a university and has a steady boyfriend she's has sex with.
Ban soccer moms and helicopter parents (Score:4, Insightful)
That should take care of the problem. I'd have opted for "educating" them, but it seems that's hopeless.
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I was going to post something to the effect that the only real learning *is* independent learning, but I like the way you said it better.
Only one of their 'warning signs' is real (Score:3)
All the rest are signs of normal, intelligent, nerd behavior.
Basically, the UK hates nerds and wants to make sure that no British kid ever grows up to start or get anywhere in an e-business.
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Basically, the UK hates nerds and wants to make sure that no British kid ever grows up to start or get anywhere in an e-business.
Join Great Britain in the war on intelligence.
MooCow guy - this is your shining moment. Sing your song dude.
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I think he's apping apps today.
Perhaps we need more women mooCow men apping apps?
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Saying "This may be racist" does not excuse you from being a racist.
Saying "many Mexicans aren't rapists" doesn't excuse Trump.
No, they don't get credit for admitting they are nerd hating fascists attempting to discourage/criminalize normal, healthy behavior.
Sensationalist summary (Score:5, Informative)
If you actually pull up the article, it has a list of warning signs and then adds:
Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities.
We don't really think there's harm in having a conversation with our kids, do we?
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Stop talking sense and reading the actual article! Isn't it much more fun to wildly speculate and criticize anyone not in the "in" group?
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The list will make parents suspicious of normal things. Suspicion doesn't mean "this is associated with crime every single time", it means "it's pretty likely this is associated with crime". Adding a disclaimer that it isn't associated with crime every single time will do nothing to stop suspicion, since suspicion doesn't mean it's associated with crime every single time.
Furthermore, if the kid isn't already talking to the parents about these things, one possible reason for that is that the parents can't
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So, your kid has "irregular sleeping patterns" and you don't have a conversation with them to find out why? It might not even involve a computer. It might be too much time playing games. You might find out that you have a fantastically talented author that just can't go to sleep with ideas bouncing around in their head.
They start making money online and you don't ask how or why? Aren't you even a little bit curious? Do you have a kid who built the next Silk Road or do you have a budding entrepreneur?
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When it starts out "This is a series of possible warnings that your child is headed into a life of crime", then no possible postscript is adequate compensation. Note, I say "No Possible". Their addendum is a lot less than the most exculpatory possible.
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Where is that quote from? It looks like it was loosely copied from the /. summary?
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You are correct. I don't live in the UK, so my direct interest is minor, and I didn't study the issue. (FWIW, I don't even remember which police agency it was that issued the signs...and probably wouldn't know what it was anyway.) So my response is, indeed, based on the slashdot summary. And it is still correct as stated.
Please note: I was responding to the thread of argument, not to the original document. My response was framed to not require knowledge of the original document. (Yes, it did include
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The listed behaviors are very typical of any teenage nerd - some are typical of any teenager.. If anything, it does more damage by scaring non-nerds, who will then increase the level social isolation imposed on nerds.
As long as there's no presumption of "my kid might be a criminal" there's no harm in conversation. If you presume they are (or might be) doing something wrong, they will pick up on that and react defensively (which is normal for anyone, not just teenagers).
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Even I have pretty much given up on that one.
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OMG no!!! (Score:5, Funny)
>> Are they interested in coding? Do they have independent learning material on computing?
Oh no! my son might be A PROGRAMMER!!!!
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Quick, enroll him in a team sport for his own good!
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Football will make a man out of him! If only there was a way to mix football NASCAR and guns, then we'd be 100% sure.
Re:OMG no!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
If only there was a way to mix football NASCAR and guns, then we'd be 100% sure.
Mad Max?
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Mad Max, but you can only turn left.
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I've been trying to cultivate a love of programming in my kids. Turns out I'm making them into criminals. Guess I should turn myself in now before I do something else wrong like use a DSLR to take pictures of buildings.
Whooooooosh (Score:2)
Or they might be interested in hacking, security, etc. From the article, two things
help them make the right choices
You were already doing that as their parent, right?
and
There are also a number of organisations to help young people develop cyber skills:
Here, we'll list them below for you. Go on, click on the links. I mean, be trite and sarcastic if you like, but click on the links. TFA is linking to cyber security programs that your kids might be interested in. You know, for programmers and such. So much /facepalm.
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"Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to program..."
Seriously? (Score:2)
From the NCA link, about interest in programming and spending all night online:
Many of these are just normal teenage behaviours and don't necessarily suggest a young person is at risk of getting involved in cyber crime. But if a young person is showing several of these signs, try and have a conversation with them about their online activities.
What exactly am I supposed to be shocked about?
I got one (Score:1)
Dang, I don't know what to do.
My son ticks all those boxes and today. But he's a 1%er in his mid forties, and is the VP of a fortune 500 company.
Should I contact the police or the legal department of his company? Or tell his wife? His mom knows, but she won't do anything.
I have to protect my grandchildren, you know.
final sign (Score:2)
"contributes to projects that incorporate or design unbreakable cryptographic algorithms and has repositories for the distribution of the same"
yes? your child is a terrorist
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"contributes to projects that incorporate or design unbreakable cryptographic algorithms and has repositories for the distribution of the same"
yes? your child is a terrorist
Also a mathematical genius.
Almost as good as "signs your child is a Goth" (Score:2)
from the "Landover Baptist Church" [landoverbaptist.net] (hint for the oblivious: this is not a real church): .....
23-Misbehaves at school.
24-Misbehaves at home.
25-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of
this.
26-Drinks blood or expresses an interest in drinking blood. (Vampires
believe this is how to attain Satan. This act is very dangerous and
should be stopped immediately.)
27-Watches cable television or any other corrupted media sources.
(Ask your local church for proper programs that your child may watch.)
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> 25-Eats goth-related foods. Count Dracula cereal is an example of this.
Why did the parent buy this for their kid??
I might be a cyber criminal! (Score:5, Insightful)
So I looked over the list, replacing "your child" with myself, and:
Pretty much. I make websites at work, go home, and freelance as a web developer at home.
Given that I'm a web developer, I'm very interested in coding. I have independent learning material on computing and know sites where I can find more material.
Sometimes I go to sleep as late as 1am and then wake up at 6:30am to start my day again.
Given that I work as a web developer (both day job and freelance), I make pretty much all my income from online activities.
Ok, I tend not to be resistant when asked what I do online. So this would be a no.
We don't have a data allowance on our home broadband. I do use most of our mobile account's data allowance, though. So maybe score this as half right.
I have no in-person friends that I see regularly. I just see my immediate family (kids and wife) and a few co-workers.
So I'd score about 5.5 out of 7 on their scale. It sounds like I'm well on my way towards becoming a cyber criminal!
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I have independent learning material on computing and know sites where I can find more material.
Is that a threat, Mr. Cyber-program-guy!? I can assure you we've prosecuted people for less--sent them away FOR LIFE.
We have a future cyber-terrorist in a holding cell in the back... 15 year old kid with irregular sleeping patterns who didn't like talking to his parents about his facebooks!
Probably picked up his cyber-hacking skills from a combination of television [youtube.com] and the World Wide Web [aliweb.com].
Let's just put everyone in prison by default (Score:2)
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If they 'behave' then they can go on parole, under strict supervision, of course. It's the only way to be sure everyone is safe!
And, it would solve the unemployment problem! All of the homeless could be hired as guards!
But they'd probably screw up and hire terrorists, instead, because they were cheaper... 8-P
They missed a big one (Score:2)
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Is your kid a supporter or contributor of a hacking tool known as systemd? I could totally get behind that one.
In Soviet Linux, systemd gets behind you!
Hopping Mad (Score:3)
I would encourage any and all Brits to use They Work For You http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ [theyworkforyou.com] - an easy and quick way to write to your MP, and say what you think (even if you disagree).
Oh Noes! (Score:2)
Dilbert - the Knack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
...in other news... (Score:2)
Where will the UK get its crypto talent from? (Score:2)
But UK academics having to consider complex backdoors in all future UK product design. Just showing an interest in math, numbers, computers, crypto is now not good....
With UK computer skills are been so legally discouraged will smart staff fly in from the US, Australia, NZ, Canada for tricky next gen projects?
Did the GCHQ not tell the UK gov the value of having a v
These are warning signs! (Score:1)
Coughs, sores and indigestion are warning signs of cancer. Doesn't mean you need a course of chemotherapy if you see these symptoms.
Copied? (Score:1)
Good god, I think the UK actually copied that 2001 article! Is that what they consider "accurate and up to date"? 8-}