Copyright Expires On Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf 420
HughPickens.com writes: Adolf Hitler's Nazi manifesto Mein Kampf was originally printed in 1925 — eight years before Hitler came to power. After Nazi Germany was defeated in 1945, the Allied forces handed the copyright to the book to the state of Bavaria who refused to allow the book to be reprinted to prevent incitement of hatred. Now BBC reports that under European copyright law, the rights of an author of a literary or artistic work runs for the life of the author and for 70 years after his death — in Hitler's case on 30 April 1945, when he shot himself in his bunker in Berlin, so for the first time in 70 years, Mein Kampf will be available to buy in Germany.
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process. In 2012 it was agreed, after much consultation between Bavarian authorities and representatives of Jewish and Roma communities, that a scholarly edition should be planned in an attempt to demystify the book. Munich's Institute of Contemporary History will publish the new edition with thousands of academic notes, will aim to show that Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is incoherent and badly written, rather than powerful or seductive. From the original book's 1,000 pages, the publisher has produced a two-volume book that is twice as long as the original, with 3,700 annotations. Christian Hartmann, one of the team of five historians who spent several years working on the academic edition, described his relief at being able to analyze the text, even if he felt in need of regularly airing his tiny Munich office in order to cope with the task. "It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit."
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process. In 2012 it was agreed, after much consultation between Bavarian authorities and representatives of Jewish and Roma communities, that a scholarly edition should be planned in an attempt to demystify the book. Munich's Institute of Contemporary History will publish the new edition with thousands of academic notes, will aim to show that Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is incoherent and badly written, rather than powerful or seductive. From the original book's 1,000 pages, the publisher has produced a two-volume book that is twice as long as the original, with 3,700 annotations. Christian Hartmann, one of the team of five historians who spent several years working on the academic edition, described his relief at being able to analyze the text, even if he felt in need of regularly airing his tiny Munich office in order to cope with the task. "It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit."
Doesn't fair use permit critique? (Score:2)
How much of a work can be included for the purposes of critique, and how much does this vary from nation to nation?
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IANA(copyright)L but everything I've heard about this seems to indicate that in the UK and US points to the interpretation of the word "fair" as being up to the judge when it goes to court.
Re:Doesn't fair use permit critique? (Score:5, Informative)
Have you read it? It's the mindless ramblings of a delusional madman with a combination of a persecution- and superiority complex.
Just to be clear (Score:2)
Are you agreeing or disagreeing with GPP?
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I only say that Poe's law would be in effect when he does.
Re:Doesn't fair use permit critique? (Score:5, Funny)
It's the mindless ramblings of a delusional madman with a combination of a persecution- and superiority complex.
Are you referring to Trumps book or Hitlers book?
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Have you read it? It's the mindless ramblings of a delusional madman with a combination of a persecution- and superiority complex.
Yet apparently some academics think we need to be spoon fed their refutations alongside the book. So, in their eyes, it must be a powerful tome indeed.
Which is really silly. I think most people are aware of the horrible things done under Hitler's rule - we don't need some academic to point out he was a madman. We should be able to read just the original text, and draw our own conclusions. I don't think many people will somehow conclude Hitler was a great thinker and visionary. Even if he somehow turned out
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Yet factually literally, it is still not as bad as the Bible, The Koran or the Torah, yet government does not do anything serious to reign in those works and force the editing to align with law, especially prior to their distribution to minors. When those works recommend or even worse demand behaviour outside of the rule of law, those who distribute them should be challenged, no excuses). Whether it is an older work or a more modern work they should be held accountable to the same laws equally, especially
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Nah... He'd say it was garbage, and that Hitler was garbage, because he was such a looooosah that he lost the war, his country, and eventually took his own life, and that Trump's own books are above the literary standards needed for whatever the highest award for writing happens to be. I'm sure he'd also throw something about "Making 'Murika Great Again!", too...
Get ready for Trump claim its his book.
If only we could apply this to other works too... (Score:2, Offtopic)
If only we could apply this to other works too...
I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked [wikipedia.org]. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
Re: If only we could apply this to other works too (Score:2)
I was thinking the opposite, just publish it. Our societies are more and more afraid of letting people make up their own minds (however much of a struggle that may be) without guidance and context which add their own, often hidden biases.
After reading that editor's comments, I half expect the book to be published with lots of crossings-out and big red scrawls saying, "WRONG!!! Do it again!!!! F minus".
I hope the added material will try to be measured and reasonable for a critical reader to accept and
Re: If only we could apply this to other works too (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree - just publish it. If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
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If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
+5 Insightful . . . probably the most insightful thing that I have read on Slashdot in the last 20 years. Now if my mod points had not only slid down the cracks in my sofa tonight . . .
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I agree - just publish it. If you're afraid that the population will be seduced by it, you have bigger problems than the book.
Better still, every book sold could have a percent of the proceeds donated to a Jewish charity. It wouldn't be the first time. I borrowed the idea from a January 1939 newspaper article [nla.gov.au]
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See, freedom isn't free. A lot of Captain Freedom types forget this, but the ideal of free speech doesn't exist because speech is harmless. It's simply a compromise - the oppression of dangerous speech is considered more harmful than the speech itself.
Populations can be and have been seduced by this kind of material. In fact we are talking about a book that is quite famous for doing just that.
If you truely believe in the principle of free speech you need to engage with this fact honestly and say "I am comfortable with the danger". Others (especially minorities) might take a different view.
It was war reparations and the collapse of the German economy in 1931 and then the Great Depression that led to WW2, not a book, and especially not this book.
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I am not comfortable with danger, which is why I'm trying to minimize it. And that means not giving the next Hitler wannabe a fully functional censorship machine to silence any opposition with.
They're free to do so, but in the light of the entire human history that makes them either idiots or Hitler wannabes.
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If only we could apply this to other works too... I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked [wikipedia.org]. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
Nothing helps freshmen from getting confused in their first year in college. Take away one source of confusion and plenty of others will take its place.
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If only we could apply this to other works too... I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked [wikipedia.org]. It would help people from getting confused their first year in college.
That, and the Quran, Hadiths, Tafseers and Sira - the 'sacred' books of Islam. That is, take all these works, annotate them heavily w/ the critiques of Ali Sina, Srjda Trifkovic, Bat Yeor and others who have studied it from something other than a devotional approach, and then release it. Outlaw the original versions of Bukhari, Ibn Khatir, Ibn Ishaq, Jalalayn, Mawdidi and so on. It would help decontaminate the mind of today's Nazis i.e. non-agnostic Muslims.
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The same for the Bible since there are many different versions, not to mention the Old and New Testaments or the many books the Vatican refuses to acknowledge as part of its history, such as the Gospel of Mary.
If one could get into the underground Vatican library and root around for one day, the amount of contradictory material and hidden treasures of Catholic doctrine being butchered would be very enlightening.
I know someone who's sister does translations of old Latin and has been to the library. According
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>Outlaw the original versions
Outlawing books? What THE FUCK is wrong with you?
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I'd love it if all copies of The Communist Manifesto came pre-Fisked
As would I with APK posts. In fact, I feel so strongly about it that I opened a page on my wiki to collaboratively Fisk APK's claims about hosts [pineight.com].
Why the fuzz? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the fuzz over this old book?
The book has been available in almost all countries except Germany, it is available on Amazon in both German and English, and it is of course available on the Internet, e.g. on www.hitler.org. Anyone interested in Mein Kampf can read it for free or for a few dollars. It hasn't caused a neo-nazi uprise anywhere so far, and it won't even if it is published in Germany.
I don't get it.
Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:5, Funny)
Now Disney can make an animated movie of it.
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Meh, I'll wait for the movie version of the Broadway adaptation of the animated movie based on the book.
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Now Disney can make an animated movie of it.
"SPRINGtime... for HITler... and GEEeeermanyyyyyyyyyy! WINter, for POLand... and FraaAAAaaance!"
I can just see a singing goat. Goering will be the hog, Himmler the weasel...hey, wait a minute! Haven't I seen this one before?
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I think because it's a symbol of censorship.
Interesting. What's publishing a version of the book with analysis designed specifically to discredit it a symbol of?
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I think because it's a symbol of censorship.
Interesting. What's publishing a version of the book with analysis designed specifically to discredit it a symbol of?
I think the GP meant that the Bavarian government's refusal to publish Mein Kampf was a symbol of censorship. And perhaps it was. But I also think it was a symbol of rejection of a kind of evil that the world has seen rarely.
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What's publishing a version of the book with analysis designed specifically to discredit it a symbol of?
That's a different question, and I don't know the answer. However, there are plenty of academics in Germany (and France, for that matter) with some of the limitations they've been given on free speech, so perhaps it is a symbolic attempt at freedom, in a very German way (given that Germans have a reputation for following strictly the rules and regulations).
Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any neo-nazi fanboi able to read could have already read it; it's not like the lack of official publication made it impossible to attain.
I don't really care to read it myself and more than I'd like to read some other politician nutjob's manifesto, but if the fear is that people reading it will become nazi's... those types people rarely require any reading to be like they are.
Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:4, Insightful)
Good points.
As a history geek, I've read parts of it. It wasn't very interesting, except for the fact that Hitler so described his Lebensraum plans. There was no doubt at all that Hitler planned to invade eastern Europe and attack Russia. (http://hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch14.html )
This fact raises the obvious question: why the hell didn't the Western powers stop him earlier? Why did they try to appease a man who so clearly stated his intentions? Were they, England and France, complete morons?
Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:4, Informative)
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Not to mention that it had been less than 20 years since the First World War ended, there was very little public support for another until it was obviously inevitable.
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Sometimes, I wonder whether Stalin was secretly in bed w/ Hitler regarding that,
Depends what you mean with "regarding that".
Stalin was openly in bed with Hitler as both agreed to conquer Poland and divide it up amoung themselves.
Re: Why the fuzz? (Score:3)
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This fact raises the obvious question: why the hell didn't the Western powers stop him earlier?
Because they were tired of war, and really didn't want to fight anymore. People who favored stopping Hitler were accused of being "warmongers." I can't particularly blame people for not wanting war after the carnage of WW1.
Why did they try to appease a man who so clearly stated his intentions? Were they, England and France, complete morons?
I think they underestimated the strength of Germany. They thought something like, "We just beat them down, they are weaker than us, and too weak to stand against
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The misjudgement of the strength of Germany can be most clearly seen in the Maginot Line.
Yea and no. The Maginot line was defeated with "new technology" or more precisely with new ideas. On top of that it was not well defended when it was attacked, as no one expected an attack, the soldiers where not alerted.
This are the main concepts:
* The assault was carried out simultaneously on most fortifications
* The "paratroopers" landed with troop carrying paragliders directly on top of the fortesses (gliding plane
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This fact raises the obvious question: why the hell didn't the Western powers stop him earlier? Why did they try to appease a man who so clearly stated his intentions? Were they, England and France, complete morons?
Oh, just take a look at the current Islamic invasion of Western society today . . . in 100 years, the historian folks will be calling us morons :-)
I travel sometimes with a work colleague of mine . . . when we need to go through the airport security checks, he says, "Well, it's time for us to pay our Islam tax again!" Actually, he did a paper napkin calculation of what Islam costs on productivity . . . folks standing around in security lines because of Islam, instead of doing something productive . . . a
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When the war against "Islam" is over, you will certainly find another resource somewhere on the planet where you can fight over.
Then you will suppress people of nationality X,
impose "the american way of live" on them,
depose the legally voted or heritage based government,
set up your puppet government,
enable them to violate human rights and capture, torture, kill regime critics,
actively helping your new cronies with your CIA and companies like "Blackwater",
in parallel you set up a secret underground movement,
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There is no war against Islam except in the fantasies of extremists who wish it to be true.
That means both extremists seeking to harm our country, and extremists like you seeking to harm an entire religion.
You dishonor yourself, the thousands who died that day, the first responders who worked so tirelessly to save the survivors, and the countless American citizens who answered the call to serve their nation following the attacks. First responders like Police Cadet Mohammed Salman Hamdani, who died digging t
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This fact raises the obvious question: why the hell didn't the Western powers stop him earlier? Why did they try to appease a man who so clearly stated his intentions? Were they, England and France, complete morons?
Why do we try to appease now people who so clearly state their intentions? (in Arabic, Farsi, etc. )
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war fatigue over WWI was a big part of it, which really, people today have forgotten just how utterly devastating that war was. But there was a reason people at the time called it The War To End All Wars: not because of the large numbers of people and countries involved, but for the sheer distaste for war it left in everyone's psyche. The numbers of maimed survivors and killed. The devastated countryside, thousands of square miles reduced to rubble and wasteland, littered with bodies.
as well as for the same
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*cough*
Even as a Putin sock-puppet you should get your facts straight: The Western Allies fought Hitler already for 2 years before he invaded the Soviet Union. Once that happened the Soviet Union received massive amounts of Lend-Lease equipment from the US. Doesn't sound like a war by proxy to me.
The Soviet Union (not Russia!) suffered the most casualties due to (probably among others) Stalin's Purges which drained the officer corps and removed any intention to disobey central command from the remaining off
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Because life is too short for people to spend their precious time fighting a fringe ideology like neo-nazism, but nonetheless feel "something ought to be done".
When "something ought to be done" is the only guideline people have, it's because whether that something is effective is unimportant to them.
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Well...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/... [cnn.com]
Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:5, Interesting)
Mah, worth a read. As is Das Kapital and other "bad" books. I found it amusing. A bit repetitive. But every once and a while for a few pages I'd totally agree with him then it would be "because of the dirty jews" and I'd be thinking what wait, what?
Example: he sees it as the job of the state to ensure that there are sufficient resources for the populous. Foreign/non-contiguous colonies aren't the answer because they are hard to defend and tend to revolt/separate. So you need to expand in your own boundaries. Germany being the largest population logically then should fight to have the largest landmass in europe. Also people of similar cultures and language should group together (hence Austria). A bit aggressive for my tastes but logically consistent. But then as mentioned, go off and blame all the problems on Jews and such, seems very tangential. Anyways worth a read.
It perhaps sucks to be the author is such cases but I think at some level books that have truly historical significance shouldn't be copyrightable. It is one thing for the latest Star Wars movie or whatever, regardless of what they'd like you to think, not having seen it wouldn't be a great loss to you. You might miss out on a few inside jokes but your political/humanistic/whatever you want to call it growth wouldn't be stunted. Of particular obvious (to me) example for things that shouldn't be copyrightable: religious texts Scientology, translations of the Bible, etc for example. You shouldn't be considered a tax exempt charity because you are "working for the benefit of humanity" while charging a fee for the right to print your propaganda. They shouldn't be tax exempt at all IMO, but if they are they definitely shouldn't be able to prevent you from getting a hold of their books as cheaply as possible (your tax dollars have indirectly already supported their cause).
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Re:Why the fuzz? (Score:4, Interesting)
However, nobody ever speaks much about the horrible attrocities (sic) the other countries commited (sic) during the war: [list]
Really? Fucking Really?
The fact that you were able to rattle examples of other atrocities right off the top of your head means that yes, there are a /lot/ of books and other media about the other atrocities since you have read them.
Let's see, what can I find on just one atrocity done by the Japanese during WWII
1-12 of 4,299 results for Books :
"bataan death march"
On Amazon alone.
>unfair to the nazis
Please. Fuck. Off. And. Go. Back. To. Stormfront.
Please.
--
BMO
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About all that stuff you mention is talked.
Otherwise you would not know about them.
If you want raise issues, why not seeking a public forum and talk there about it?
Fascistic ideologies where at that time all over the world. In some countries they came to power (Japan, Germany, Spain, Italy, later China, too), in some countries not (France, UK, USA). In some countries they are at power but you don't realize (USA, e.g. except for Obama, I believe most politicians are fascists ... or how is it explained that c
Driving traffic to "The Guardian" again? (Score:2)
Hey, Dice and HughPickens.com, what's with all the posts linking to "The Grauniad"?
What do you want, a cookie? (Score:2)
Would it be better to try for an automatic first post by linking to Tech2 [firstpost.com]?
3700 annotations isn't "demystification" (Score:2)
It's more like an attempt to bury the book completely in the annotations so nobody wants to read it, including scholars. Which is probably the point of the exercise.
Triumph (Score:2)
It was kind of a... triumph of the will.
Anne Frank's diary too (Score:2)
Expiration (Score:5, Informative)
This is about copyrights actually expiring thus "unlocking" the material from the equivalent of the Disney Vault (_citation_ [wikipedia.org]) so to speak; oh, if I only had a dollar for every person on Earth that does not know copyrights have an expiration date...
That being said, in still Pre-TPP Canada, our expiration date is "only" half a century after the entire remaining lifespan of the author, so in this (and in many, many others) Mein Kampf has been in the public domain for two decades, and I don't see a large National Socialist Canadian Worker's Party.
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Perfect timing (Score:2)
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You beat me to it.
When you look at Donald Trump's lifestyle, the word "struggle" does not come to mind.
New content == new copyright (Score:2)
Copyright is based on authorship. So, while the main text of Mein Kampf is in the public domain, this new two-volume work will legitimately claim a new copyright. The new copyright will come from all those notes, which were created through acts of authorship. Contrary to the other contemporary story of Otto Frank, editorship is sweat of the brow, while authorship is creativity (see https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki... [gutenberg.org] , for example). Translation does qualify as authorship, since is an intellectual creative
They must have cheap lawyers (Score:2)
Disney's lawyers could have told them how to make their copyright last forever.
Illegal (Score:2)
" the Allied forces handed the copyright to the book to the state of Bavaria "
There's your problem right away. They had no right to do that, the guy was never put on trial much less convicted and even if, getting his copyright stolen is not one of any punishments in Germany or any other country.
The Schicklgruber (Hitler's name before they changed it) family should have gotten the money instead.
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The Schicklgruber family should have gotten the money instead.
Nobody got any money because - as even the summary mentions - the copyright was used to block publishing in Germany.
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"Nobody got any money because - as even the summary mentions - the copyright was used to block publishing in Germany."
You are aware that there are a couple of hundred other countries?
In India it's a bestseller.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/... [telegraphindia.com]
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Their are laws which prevent profiting from autobiographies and such (aka profiting from your crime). There do similarly take away an autobiographical work, I could see an argument being used that Hitler's crimes would of fuelled the sales of the book.
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"Their are laws which prevent profiting from autobiographies and such (aka profiting from your crime). "
Yes, for _convicted_ felons after the fact, not dead people who wrote something in their youth.
Godwin's Law (Score:5, Funny)
You know who else wrote a book? Hilter!
Making up the "News for nerds" aspect? (Score:2)
The only vague reference to a copyright topic in the summary (and the Guardian article) is
Authorizing the book's release into the public domain has been a tortuous process.
which is of course complete rubbish. The copyright ended according to law on New Years Eve and the book was thus automatically released into the Public Domain. No process needed for that nor was it tortuous. The commented edition which was written by German scholars during the last years (and had to overcome some political problems) is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the original book now being
?Scholarly? Edition (Score:2)
It is a real feeling of triumph, to be able to pick over this rubbish and then to debunk it bit by bit.
It really sounds like their is nothing scholarly about the edition. More like the Mocking Hitler Edition. Coupled with the original text, which judging by its title, this has to be the most vainglorious and conceited book ever written.
But seriously, we cannot just release a book with undoubtable historical significance. Because, it was written by the losing side in one of the most recent wars we have to deface it first?
Copyright Law (Score:3)
When can we end this insanity that is copyright? How does anyone think it is a good idea to allow copyright to be used to totally prevent and suspress the use of intellectual property?
A last! (Score:3)
Re:Great event! (Score:5, Informative)
One copyright expert has said that the claim of the Fonds has no legal basis whatsoever: a court will first have to recognize Otto as co-author, and it is very unlikely that they will do so for the original diary. Until that happens, they can not continue to claim copyright. One exception may be certain parts of the diary that have been published in 1986. Back then, copyright law in several European countries protected a work for 50 years after its first publication instead of until 70 years after the author's death.
Re: Great event! (Score:5, Informative)
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Except her father was a co-author
So, if I edit my son's diary that instantly makes me a "co-author" with rights to the publishing process?
What if it's my sister's diary? My father's diary? My cousins diary?
What if I find a diary on the street and edit it...am I now a "co-author" with rights to the publishing process?
Re: Great event! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is free beer vs free speech personified. Why should we have to pirate what should belong to the world?
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They kinda jumped the gun [youtube.com].
Makes you wonder whether that piece is still copyrighted...
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We'd need someone who likes to make entrances from above and has a signature hand gesture...
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It's ready for a certain someone to create a derivative work.
"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself. There were a lot of others writing similar racialist pamphlets or books in the late 19th- and early 20th- centuries. The only difference is this author had a political career and started a war. Otherwise, he would have just been another forgotten blowhard. IMHO, the book is probably only interesting to historians, in the same way early Marxist or Leninist literature might be... to understand the political debates of the time against the backdrop of the ind
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IMHO, the book is probably only interesting to historians
There is still a Nazi movement in Germany [wikipedia.org]. When I was in school, there were people who liked to read it, although I wasn't sure why. Probably as a symbol of rebellion or something, I was never sure if they liked to read it or just carry it around with them.
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There is still a Nazi movement in Germany
Hitler's chalet above Berchtesgaden, the Kehlsteinhaus*, is now a tourist attraction, with a nice restaurant and tour guides who are quite upfront about the history. However, it has an ongoing problem with Hitlerpilger, "Hitler pilgrims" who hike up at night and leave little bouquets and love notes for the Fuhrer around the ruins of his Berghof nearby.
*Non-German media call it the Eagle's Nest, after a metaphor attached to it by a visiting journalist circa 1938; but in Germany it is and always has been the
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Better Bier und Weisswurst than we ever had hereabouts...
Henry Ford wrote large chunks of Mein Kampf (Score:4, Interesting)
"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself. There were a lot of others writing similar racialist pamphlets or books in the late 19th- and early 20th- centuries.
Such as Henry Ford. Much of Mein Kampf is plagiarized [cracked.com] from a German translation of Ford's The International Jew.
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"Mein Kampf" was arguably a derivative work itself.
Not "arguably" but actually was.
It plagiarized The International Jew (in Germany The Eternal Jew) and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (which itself is a plagiarized work), the former written by Henry Ford (yes, that one) and the latter funded by Ford in its first widespread US publication.
To say that it's a derivative document is an understatement.
--
BMO
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Even so, whenever you're trying to get that point across, decorum requires that you begin with "I'm not a racist, but..."
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Holocaust denial modded up to +3. Seems like we've got a rash of neo-nazis with mod points.
Sadly I have none, but please someone mod parent down.
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and the T-Potty
What a really clever retort. I'd have to say that the problem of edumacation extends well beyond your targets. You ever thought about reading a book or something?
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Any reason you pluralized...
Probably to troll grammar National Socialists. You bit.