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The Almighty Buck Businesses Technology

Coin Teams With MasterCard In Wearable Payments Push (thestack.com) 63

An anonymous reader writes: Smart payments startup Coin has announced it will team up with MasterCard to use its electronic card technology to help companies integrate payment services into their wearable devices. Under the new MasterCard partnership, owners of wearables with integrated Coin technology will be able to pay at retail outlets without the need to take out any cash or card . The deal is not exclusive, which means that there is still potential for Visa and American Express customers to benefit when the Coin-embedded tech begins to ship later this year.
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Coin Teams With MasterCard In Wearable Payments Push

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  • People will be getting these implanted for convenience. No need to line up the population and stamp them all with the mark of the beast.
  • Chip cards (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2016 @12:59PM (#51249297) Homepage Journal
    On the other hand in the US we have finally started to require chip (and signature) cards. I never understood this stuff. How hard is it to insert a plastic card in a slot for payment? And given the sorry state of Smart Phone security why do people insist on using their phones for payment? You are just asking for trouble.
    • I agree, A device where you can download and install arbitrary software from the internet is not a place where I want the authentication method for monetary transactions to be kept. Yes I know buying things online counts, but there is a solution for that too.

      • by tepples ( 727027 )

        Yes I know buying things online counts, but there is a solution for that too.

        Namely?

        • Have a external non-programmable card plugged in do a challenge response authentication. Make there be a physical action that must be performed on that card, eg enter pin, press a button.

          Your details cannot be stolen since you never give them out. Your computer cannot just authenticate transactions on bulk because you need to press that button each time. This could also be a good way of logging into places.

          • Have a external non-programmable card plugged in do a challenge response authentication.

            I'm not so sure to what extent cardmembers would be willing to carry around an EMV card reader in case they want to buy something online with a laptop, tablet, or smartphone.

            • The reader doesn't need to be safe just the card, that stores your private key, it would not need to be bigger than a credit card or a usb key. Your chip and pin card should already do a challenge response.

              This http://www.slipperybrick.com/2... [slipperybrick.com] has data entry any processing (power could be supplied by the reader) that is 7 years ago.

              If readers became standard which they would if everybody paid this way then their would be no issue, the reader could even be wireless. I would be happy with that as long as a p

              • by tepples ( 727027 )

                If readers became standard which they would if everybody paid this way then their would be no issue, the reader could even be wireless.

                But it'd still be something to have forgotten at home or to have misplaced.

                • The reader would be in every shop, every cell phone, every computer, the reader could simply be a NFC reader which is in pretty much every smart phone now, the point is the reader does not have to be secure. All it does is, asks the bank I would like to authorize this transaction, the bank says here encrypt random number X appended with the pin with the cards private key. If you made the card itself enter the pin the reader could not even capture the pin (minor point as mentioned before). The user holds dow

                  • by tepples ( 727027 )

                    If you mean you could leave your card a home, or lose it

                    I meant leaving the reader at home. Readers are in every shop but not already in every cell phone or every computer.

                    • Not now but could easily be, if this was to become a standard method of payment that banks supported. You could make a usb dongle for old computers. To admit I do not have NFC in my cell phone, it is a feature phone. I don't know which phones do, certainly people in my office do but I do work in the IT industry and that may not be a fair sample. Then again I do not use my phone to make purchases either. people do seem to replace their phone often, every couple of years, not me of course, my phone is 10 year

            • Actually thinking about it, it probably would not need to be any bigger than a sim card, you could have it in a shielded slot on your phone, it physically connects it to your phone ready to authenticate 1 transaction.

              • by jrumney ( 197329 )
                Your phone is not a secure keypad. Any PIN you enter there can be logged, and the GPS coordinates of your phone recorded for later retrieval of the card.
                • I understand that, your phone is not a secure anything, but it would require the criminal to actually track you down and steal from you, they could do that without even entering any details. Just like when you type your pin in any EFTPOS machine there can be cameras watching, (if the machine is not itself compromised) or next person can use an infra red camera to get your pin. This of course rely on actual physical access to your card. If your phone is on you and compromised it can broadcast a signal so the

          • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

            Cash and buying in person will always be better. Why, because you choose, cash in pocket and you choose whether to spend it or not. Electronic payments breaks down to this, "Please sir, may I have this", this is the begging plea, each and every time you ask permission to have something. Every time I make a credit card purchase in store I always laugh with the comment, "my card still loves me". I limit my credit card purchases because it inherently irritates to plead for permission to have something and sta

            • No it is not, maybe you every time you buy on a credit card you worry about it being declined, but I don't, I do not purchase anything on a card that cannot afford to buy with cash.

              You could make the same argument with cash, each time you pay for a particular good you, they could say no. I don't beg for anything if the shop doesn't give me the goods, or even slightly annoys me I say stuff off and go somewhere else. If you are talking about the bank kindly letting me take money out of my account, then unless

              • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

                Idjiot, generally people who prefer cash, prefer cash because that's what that have plenty of and dislike credit because they don't need it. Delude yourself all you want but make no mistake it's "Please sir may I have another" and should they develop a dislike to you for what ever political reason, not only does it become a no but they will track you down, beat you up and throw you in a cage. A freeman uses cash, a slave presents a permission slip provided by their master.

                • they will track you down, beat you up and throw you in a cage

                  Congratulations on your follow up post being even more deranged than your first.

                • First electronic payments, and credit are 2 separate things you should be able to use one without the other. You said in your post

                  Nothing at all to do with privacy

                  So tracking you down really is not relevant, but with facial recognition getting better all they need is a store camera to track you down, irrelevant on if you pay by cash or electronic methods.

            • Cash and buying in person will always be better. Why, because you choose, cash in pocket and you choose whether to spend it or not. Electronic payments breaks down to this, "Please sir, may I have this", this is the begging plea, each and every time you ask permission to have something. Every time I make a credit card purchase in store I always laugh with the comment, "my card still loves me". I limit my credit card purchases because it inherently irritates to plead for permission to have something and stand pathetically waiting for approval from my credit card master.

              Nothing at all to do with privacy and everything to do with who is the master and who is the slave, I refuse to spend my fucking life asking for permission to do stuff every single fucking day of it and waiting pathetically for approval.

              No offence, but you're as mad as a sack full of weasels.

              • by rtb61 ( 674572 )

                Let me guess, you work for a company that demands a corporate tax upon every transaction on the planet, a tax you don't pay if you pay with cash, basically billions lost to those corporations when people pay with cash instead, well billions lost to those corporations and billions saved by every one else. Credit cards companies are basically financial parasites and regardless of ad hominem attacks, I'll stick with cash for the bulk of my purchases.

        • by unrtst ( 777550 )

          The last two replies got it wrong (IMO), so here goes on my attempt...

          MFA (Multi Factor Auth). Sorry, I couldn't find an easy doc or example within my first few searches, so you'll have to trust me a bit.
          When you check out from some sites, such as newegg, if your bank supports the extra secure pay thingy (I can't remember its exact name), then newegg redirects you to your banks site. If you have it enabled, then you must enter some info for your bank so it can authenticate that you are the owner of the car

          • Regardless, there are solutions for that, but the physical world solution should not (IMO, and the opinion of the GP) be on some relatively insecure device where arbitrary software can be installed from the internet.

            And yet, time after time, millions of people's card credentials have been stolen from supposedly certified, secure, PCI-DSS compliant Point of Sale equipment on which arbitary software was installed from the internet. Whereas payments through phone-NFC-PoS-Bank transactions have not suffered the same fate.

            Maybe because people involved in the creation of the through phone-NFC-PoS-Bank transaction mechanisms knew what the hell they were doing, whereas the PCI-DSS people do not.

            • by unrtst ( 777550 )

              Great example; batshit insane conclusion.
              It also has nothing to do with this branch of the thread. Read what I was replying to.

              I would agree that the original designs for the secure payment systems for smart phones were great, even if they were on devices like that. However, corners are being cut now. For example, from what I can tell, Android Pay no longer requires the use of a separate chip to securely store the sensitive data (the secure element).

              • Great example; batshit insane conclusion.
                It also has nothing to do with this branch of the thread. Read what I was replying to.

                I would agree that the original designs for the secure payment systems for smart phones were great, even if they were on devices like that. However, corners are being cut now. For example, from what I can tell, Android Pay no longer requires the use of a separate chip to securely store the sensitive data (the secure element).

                There are reasons for that. The secure storage is still a requirement. However chip vendors have begun incorporating the secure storage on the main die. From an attack surface point of view, this is better. The physical 'separateness' of the storage element is not a security goal or feature. The logical separateness certainly is.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      And given the sorry state of Smart Phone security why do people insist on using their phones for anything? You are just asking for trouble.

      FTFY.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      On the other hand in the US we have finally started to require chip (and signature) cards. I never understood this stuff. How hard is it to insert a plastic card in a slot for payment? And given the sorry state of Smart Phone security why do people insist on using their phones for payment? You are just asking for trouble.

      Sales.

      It's been demonstrated that people are likely to spend more when there's less friction.

      Ridiculous friction: Barter of physical commodities. I bring my cow to the market, I go ho

      • You are 100% right. I guess what I meant is why the consumers keep using this stuff. I understand the credit card companies love the idea of frictionless payments. I also think paying with a phone is more of a hassle than paying with a card. And the other point is why even bother requiring chip and signature if you are going to push people to use insecure smartphones for payment?
      • by unrtst ( 777550 )

        Lower friction: Contactless card. Bump your ass into a wall-mounted terminal, place your purse on the checkout counter while your groceries are being bagged, fist-bump the cute little robot terminal while wearing a smartwatch, all sorts of ways to make the ritual "fun" and engaging. 2 seconds. ...

        Except that's a fantasy and does not reflect reality at all.

        You have to accept the charge via your phone. That's the only thing that keeps people from walking buy and taking all your money without ever touching you.
        That alone doesn't sound hard, but that means you have to take out your phone (could have taken out your wallet).
        Then you have to unlock it (or open your wallet).
        Then put the phone where the reader can read it and wait for those things to talk to each other (or swipe your card, which is, IMO, fas

        • by Anonymous Coward

          You have to accept the charge via your phone. That's the only thing that keeps people from walking buy and taking all your money without ever touching you.
          That alone doesn't sound hard, but that means you have to take out your phone (could have taken out your wallet).
          Then you have to unlock it (or open your wallet).
          Then put the phone where the reader can read it and wait for those things to talk to each other (or swipe your card, which is, IMO, faster).
          Then accept the charge (or sign the terminal or receipt, or not if it's a small purchase).
          Then lock and return your phone (or put card back and put wallet in your pocket).

          That's true of many of the shittier ways to pay, if you have an Apple Watch (or I'm guessing an Android one), it looks like this:
          Double tap button on side of watch, bump it against payment terminal.

          Done.

    • And given the sorry state of Smart Phone security why do people insist on using their phones for payment?

      Because my phone hasn't been stolen and used to buy gas in Tijuana or clothes in Florida 4 times in the last 4 years. I trust Apple Pay because I've actually read their published whitepapers and like its design. I love the idea that I'm not giving Joe's Meth Shack my actual credit card number when I stop for food on a roadtrip.

      Given a choice between handing out sensitive data to anyone who asks for it, versus a one-time-use number that's still fully backed by fraud liability limits if something goes wrong,

    • by orasio ( 188021 )

      Magnetic stripe cards provide no security themselves. They are good enough for now, but card makers and some customers want something with a bit more security. Chip cards provide reasonably good encryption, and are much harder to clone.

      Phones, on the other hand, are used for payment a lot right now. They are used when you pay for Uber, or when you buy apps, or when I pay my rent with a bank transfer using my phone's web browser + a coordinate card. Plus, it's usually with you, so it's convenient, that is al

    • by DanJ_UK ( 980165 ) *
      What? You've only just got chip and pin?

      Jesus christ we've had that for decades.
  • I seem to have left my wallet in my other pants. Literally.
  • Or Forehead. That way you won't forget it. Seems like I have heard this idea before though..hmmmm.
  • Why don't you work on getting my second coin shipped to me from my order 2 years ago?
    • Exactly why I cancelled my preorder - when they delayed it to be a month before all the retailers were supposed to have EMV readers installed at the point of sale, and Coin didn't yet support EMV, it showed that they weren't keeping up. Then, when they reduced the number of available units in their 'beta' due to manufacturing issues, it reinforced it.

      I wasn't going to pay that kind of money to get something already obsolete, months late. Nice try, but learn to execute.

  • I don't understand this. Contactless cards [theukcards...ion.org.uk] have been around in the UK for a while now. While they are "wearable", like you could wear them in your sleeve, they do need to be waved in front of the reader so you could not wear them in your socks, or your pants probably.

    But that is also the case with these "Coin" devices too. FTFA :- "owners of wearables with integrated Coin technology will be able to pay ... just waving the device in front of the payment terminal., So what is supposed to be new about
    • Coin is more than just contactless. It has a whole set of (useless) technology behind it. The US also has contactless cards. The wrist thing isn't a real device, just a marketing photo.
    • By integrating Coin's "technology" you can make your "wearable" as useful for contactless payment as your two year old smartphone with NFC. As in, your device can have multiple payment card infos on it, you pick one, and then do a Jedi wave. Just like you can with basically an Android or iPhone since 2014.

      Yay?

  • My local coffee shop has evolved to accept so many forms of payment, from apple to coin to mastercard to google pay and i think even bitcoin, that i've simply out of habit begun storing torn and crinkled singles in my shoes. I know the future of e-i-e-i-o payment is here, but the mode lacks the satisfaction of bypassing 150 different imaginary money systems in order to push a wad of sweat-soaked washingtons across a counter to a liberal arts major. Im even working on a payment system that uses dimes and n
    • Actually, the one I enjoy is the self-serve lines at the grocery store. It's a great place to get rid of all the coins--they even accept pennies--that you accumulate when you pay $7.38 for something.

  • Credit cards are cheap, thin, light, have chipped security, and couldn't be any easier to use.
  • by Hognoxious ( 631665 ) on Wednesday January 06, 2016 @02:33PM (#51250135) Homepage Journal

    They deserve to fail and die for not only choosing a common word for their name, but also choosing a name that's in common use in something closely related.

    • They deserve to fail and die for not only choosing a common word for their name, but also choosing a name that's in common use in something closely related.

      Like Microsoft's "Windows" and "Word" you mean ?

    • Especially since the use of said device makes it so that a coin is never involved.

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