US Asks VW For Electric Cars (news.com.au) 250
US authorities have asked the German carmaker Volkswagen to produce electric vehicles in the United States as a way of making up for its rigging of emission tests. German newspaper Welt am Sonntag claims the US Environmental Protection Agency is currently in talks with Volkswagen with the aim of agreeing on a fix for nearly 600,000 diesel vehicles that emit up to 40 times legal pollution limits. The paper, which gave no source for its report on Sunday, said the EPA was asking VW to produce electric vehicles at its plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and to help build a network of charging stations for electric vehicles in the United States.
This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Interesting)
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Kinda have to agree.
Who ever thought of this was pretty astute in gauging the environmental impact of the VW fiasco, and working towards ameliorating it in a way that not only gets buy in from VW and improves the air quality in a way better than the original regs.
The only hiccup is if this turns into a gimme to VW as a way to ensure compliance.
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This is TOTALLY WRONG. The gov't must get out of the way of the free market, as it is ALWAYS self-correcting. VW would eventually come around and produce clean-burning diesel vehicles on their own, just through normal market forces, or they would go out of business. It's a fundamental law of nature. Like gravity.
Everybody knows this.
Once Trump get's elected, this will get fixed up real good.
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VW has lost trust, needs fines and free software (Score:2)
No it's not a very good solution. VW has behaved in a way that requires punishment (and high fines are a perfectly appropriate way to make them change their behavior and send a message to other manufacturers that the US is serious), and every country should be requiring complete corresponding source code under a free software license from VW and any other automaker that lied, sold equipment under false pretense, or dodged environmental regulation. That will help prevent this particular cheating from recurri
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..., and every country should be requiring complete corresponding source code under a free software license from VW and any other automaker that lied, sold equipment under false pretense, or dodged environmental regulation.
Except the "source code" is usually the property of the ECU maker, not the car maker. The car maker provides only data input and tables to the ECU, which then acts accordingly.
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Newsflash. VW already makes & sells BEVs.
I disagree... (Score:2)
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Right and maybe if you or I break the law we can just get to go on as nothing has happened. This solution only rewards them by having them do what they were going to do in the first place.
Here is a novel idea, have them fix the vehicles at their cost and then fine them to the maximum allowed by law and use the proceeds to build charging stations.
This proposed settlement is a bit like saying if you are a utility caught violating clean air laws, it's okay, for your punishment, go produce clean energy.
There i
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"There is nothing positive about this settlement unless you are VW."
Or you're a human being that wants more electric cars on the road.
This doesn't settle things between VW and all the consumers that can and will sue the living fuck out of them, it simply offers them a solution that will increase the percentage of electric vehicles sold.
What good is building charging stations with that money going to do? It's not going to increase the number of cars on the road using electric power. It might enrich some spec
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Here is a novel idea, have them fix the vehicles at their cost and then fine them to the maximum allowed by law and use the proceeds to build charging stations.
No, you don't get it. They're still not going to get out of dealing with those vehicles and their responsibility to consumers somehow. This is just about their responsibility to the state. VW may well end up having to actually buy those vehicles back, yet! Besides, there is really no feasible way to "fix" those vehicles. They can make them suck by degrading their mileage and making them drive like turds, but there's no room to retrofit the emissions equipment that they would need to install in order to impr
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It's not necessarily a good solution. They can produce some compliance cars that meet the letter of the agreement, that no one wants to buy, and it won't do any actual good.
If however VW wants to enter the electric car space anyway, this might let them retain the capital required for that investment and shrug off any shareholders (particularly those with oil interests).
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Re:This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Insightful)
When you break the law and get caught, the gov't gets to tell you a lot of things you can & can't do.
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When you break the law and get caught, the gov't gets to tell you a lot of things you can & can't do.
But rarely does the government tell you that for your punishment, to go produce a new product instead of paying a fine.
Re:This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Interesting)
Except it wouldn't be a new product.
VW has been teasing an all-electric Golf for a few years now, including auto show appearances, but has been dragging their feet bringing it to market. The 2016 e-Golf is only available at select dealers in a handful of states.
They *have* the product, they just aren't selling it 'cause their bread-n-butter is internal combustion. So the choice is a few billion in fines, or a few billion in getting serious about selling electric cars. ...and the fine won't do anything to offset the environmental damage done, which is what the requirements were for in the first place. It's not only an equitable solution, it's a logical one that actually fulfills the purpose of the law that was broken.
=Smidge=
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They *have* the product, they just aren't selling it 'cause their bread-n-butter is internal combustion. So the choice is a few billion in fines, or a few billion in getting serious about selling electric cars.
Maybe they have a product but aren't selling it because it is no viable or finished? Porsche's first car was electric, why aren't all cars electric? etc.
The government should not be dictating the technology used, they should be dictating the goals and letting manufacturers chose the technology. Nothing good ever comes from stifling potential innovation by telling someone what to design.
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Maybe they have a product but aren't selling it because it is no viable or finished?
It is finished. It's on the market, but only if you happen to live in on the of the handful of places that sells it. Even if you find a dealer what sells them, you'll have to ask for it explicitly and they'll probably try to sell you something else anyway.
The government should not be dictating the technology used, they should be dictating the goals and letting manufacturers chose the technology.
They DID set the goals, and the manufacturers cheated. So now the manufacturers blew their chance and they get more restrictions. Good, I say.
Nothing good ever comes from stifling potential innovation by telling someone what to design.
Well, good thing that's not at all what's being discussed then, huh?
=Smidge=
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but only if you happen to live in on the of the handful of places that sells it.
I wonder why that is? Tell me, do you have an electric car? Would you buy a Tesla without the ability to charge it anywhere? I see electric cars constantly, and I do see e-Golfs around the place. Typically I see them plugged into publically available power outlets which every parking garage in my city provides, and every other street provides too. Do you have those in your city? Why should a company be forced to sell a product that doesn't work in your area and isn't popular in your area?
They DID set the goals, and the manufacturers cheated. So now the manufacturers blew their chance and they get more restrictions. Good, I say.
Bad I say. If you t
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I wonder why that is?
Because of corporate inertia, mostly. There's too much money to be made in the status quot and the risks to breaking out into a new market are not clear enough for some.
For others, however, it's clearly the way forward. Nissan in particular has bet a lot on electric cars being a sizable market segment and have been making good progress despite being one of the first to really stick their necks out.
Tell me, do you have an electric car?
No, but then again I've owned my current car for about 10 years and it's still in great shape. I've never advoc
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Electric VWs have been on sale for a while in Europe. They are okay, unremarkable and not particularly interesting or competitively priced.
This year is going to be a big year for EVs, so it's likely VW will announce something either way. In March we will have Tesla announcing the Model 3 and beginning pre-orders, although delivery won't be until early 2018 which is kinda crazy. The Model 3 will set the benchmark - they have confirmed the $35k before subsidy pricing for the base model, and we expect a 200 mi
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What they have one? A dozen? Is that enough or are they going to have to PRODUCE more? Sorry, but that was a pretty moronic comment you made.
They're currently on the road in California. I've actually seen a couple of them. So the product is fully developed and won't require any significant new R&D. Just production of something they are already producing, but on a larger scale.
Not a moronic comment at all.
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What they have one? A dozen? Is that enough or are they going to have to PRODUCE more? Sorry, but that was a pretty moronic comment you made.
News flash: Volkswagen is an automaker. That is to say, they make automobiles. If they have to produce more, well, they can do that. Besides the e-Golf, they've recently shown an electric minivan [theverge.com], to show off their new EV platform. VW wants us to believe that they are ready to produce EVs if they so choose, so... their bluff has been called. They can put up, or fuck off.
EVs are selling like dookie right now, because OPEC. But they'll pick up again, with the fuel prices. It's not a matter of whether fuel pri
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EVs are selling like dookie right now, because OPEC.
Only because of stupid people. Electricity is cheaper than even the cheapest gasoline.
It costs substantially more up front to buy an EV and a charger than to buy a gasoline vehicle. If you're not swimming in cash, it's difficult to justify such purchases. Remember, more people are living paycheck to paycheck these days, the economy has not recovered to the extent that people think it has just because some of the people who do have jobs can afford to buy cars. Most of them are basing their purchase decisions on low fuel prices, which are just going to go back up and drive a lot of them to def
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Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy then, isn't it?
=Smidge=
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You'd rather someone give the government money? That shit would be squirrled away in to some crony's pockets before you could count it.
This is a clever solution that is befitting the crime.
Fuck people the government actually figured something out one fucking time? And you're gonna bitch? Thats like smacking the dog on the nose when he finally does do it outside.
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So what? Most people aren't capable of producing a product that would significantly benefit society.
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They have the power to force people to consume certain products, why shouldn't they also have the power to force certain people to produce certain products? To all the people that wanted more government, this is what more government looks like.
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And it's a good thing.
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The government is offering this instead of a fine. What do you think happens if VW says "No"? Its executives are hauled off to jail? VW is banned in the US?
No. What happens is the original penalties apply.
This is the equivalent of the police telling a serial shoplifter they have two options: A trial and likely jail sentence, or they can go on a community service program cleaning up the roads in front of the businesses they damaged.
It is entirely fine, proper, and in the public interest, for the government to offer an offender the option of doing something that would benefit the community at large as an alternative to a punishment that wouldn't change a thing.
That would be fine if they were caught shoplifting. However, they falsified government records. They, perjured themselves and in terms of monetary damage, it falls under grand theft. Would a prosecutor (the police don't get the choice), really let such a person off with community service.
What VW did is equivalent to what Bernie Madoff did. Both bilked the public of millions of dollars and both falsified government records. Why not let him off and for his punishment, he has to sell investments? That is th
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:3)
The laws that VW broke are not "arbitrary".
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:3)
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Informative)
I think that's irrelevant. Whatever standards where in place by the Powers That Be here in the US, those are the standards. VW broke the rules in a calculated way. These cars, if not fixed, will have negligible resale value and if fixed, still a lesser resale value. They were sold to customers under dishonest false pretenses (redundant?) and these customers deserve compensation up to and including a full refund.
VW must be punished for this dishonesty in a way that discourages them from ever doing this again (as well as discouraging other from doing this as well), and a fine does not cut it because a fine is simply "the cost of doing business". What the US is asking is something that will not be forgotten by VW.
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I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
I think the government should either have them pay the fine or build infrastructure in the USA. Anything else sounds like a double fine. Of course VW could turn this to their advantage and into a win - making me think of how the record companies instance on DRM helped make iTunes a dominant player in the downloadable music market (maybe this is not the right analogy, but this is the thought that pops into my mind).
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Funny)
I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
... Of course VW could turn this to their advantage and into a win - making me think of how the record companies instance on DRM helped make iTunes a dominant player in the downloadable music market (maybe this is not the right analogy, but this is the thought that pops into my mind).
You must be new here. We explain computer issues with car analogies, not the other way round.
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I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
... Of course VW could turn this to their advantage and into a win - making me think of how the record companies instance on DRM helped make iTunes a dominant player in the downloadable music market (maybe this is not the right analogy, but this is the thought that pops into my mind).
You must be new here. We explain computer issues with car analogies, not the other way round.
But I don't know anymore if electric cars are computers on wheels or cars with computers? -confused-
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I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
... Of course VW could turn this to their advantage and into a win - making me think of how the record companies instance on DRM helped make iTunes a dominant player in the downloadable music market (maybe this is not the right analogy, but this is the thought that pops into my mind).
You must be new here. We explain computer issues with car analogies, not the other way round.
Must be from Soviet Russia
Re: This is good because of network nature (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm good with VW paying the fine, just as I had to do when I broke the speeding & stop light laws.
I think the government should either have them pay the fine or build infrastructure in the USA. Anything else sounds like a double fine. Of course VW could turn this to their advantage and into a win - making me think of how the record companies instance on DRM helped make iTunes a dominant player in the downloadable music market (maybe this is not the right analogy, but this is the thought that pops into my mind).
A correct remedy for violating the emission standards would be a fine. But this is more than violating emissions. People purchased these vehicles because of the supposedly clean nature of the vehicle along with the high mpg. Of course bringing the cars in line with the emissions will kill the mpg. VW new this was the case and as such this is fraud. They should be required to refund the purchase price of the vehicles to those who purchased them for breach of contract and intent to defraud. That would be in addition to the fine charged by the government for violating emission standards.
Put differently, VW intentionally misrepresented the product they were selling to the public. This, by definition, was a scam and they should be held accountable and make whole the people they scammed.
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This settlement has nothing to do with the individual lawsuits that VW is going to be buried in. It has to do with the specific Enviromental violations that the government has interest in sanctioning them for.
People that got screwed on this still can and will sue the living fuck out of VW.
Wake me when Company Execs can be individually held to account for the company's actions. That's when things start to get better.
Did you kill 60 people when you broke those Laws? (Score:2)
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The big problem with just paying the fine is the sheer scale of money at stake. If the US government were to actually fine VW for the full amount then VW would go bankrupt causing the destruction of untold numbers of jobs, as well as putting a serious damper on relations with Germany. If they reduce the fine so that VW is able to pay then VW wraps the fine into the cost of business and goes on its merry way. Obviously neither of these are an ideal solution which is why a third option was presented.
The th
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"Everything" isn't illegal. But fraud is, that that's one of the crimes that VW committed. And in no small way.
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A truly bad idea. If VW's heart is not in it they will only do the minimum to keep the government off their back.
That is possible, depending on how the requirements are worded. At the same time, this did occur to me as well. They could develop a vehicle just for the US market, that was cheap to build and market. I am thinking maybe something like an affordable version of the Smart car?
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They could develop a vehicle just for the US market, that was cheap to build and market. I am thinking maybe something like an affordable version of the Smart car?
They already have. It's called the eGolf, and it's already for sale in California.
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A truly bad idea. If VW's heart is not in it they will only do the minimum to keep the government off their back.
Don't be so sure. The largest auto makers are required to produce electric cars for the California market, and all of them are actually doing a pretty good job. Even Fiat, who bitches about it incessantly, managed to make the Fiat 500e, which is a hoot to drive. Not all of the electric cars in the California market are necessarily exciting, but none of them actually suck.
Re:This is good because of network nature (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not sure what planet you live on, governments tell companies what they can and can not do all the time, and should. DO you have seat belts, air bags, catalytic convectors? Does your refrigerator not have a locking dock, does your new house have lead based paint, do you kids toys have lead based paint, do you drink clean water? I could go on for hours, but you would simply say they should do any of that stuff, people should take care of painting their own homes and processing their own water...
But, whatever works for you.
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I am not sure what planet you live on, governments tell companies what they can and can not do all the time, and should. DO you have seat belts, air bags, catalytic convectors?
Industry solutions to specific problems, now part of a government standard. No one says you're not allowed to manufacture a car without seatbelts just that it won't be road worthy, and no one says exactly how that seatbelt should look, but rather only set minimum requirements.
Does your refrigerator not have a locking dock
A what?
does your new house have lead based paint, do you kids toys have lead based paint,
It still has paint and can still be the same colour.
do you drink clean water?
I do. But no one is mandating I drink coke because the water isn't clean.
I could go on for hours, but you would simply say they should do any of that stuff, people should take care of painting their own homes and processing their own water...
Please don't, because all regulations aren't the same. That's one fundamental thing you're missing here
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Proud to not be a Real American(tm) then. Back when I put an exhaust system on my 240SX, I could have put a dump pipe on it. It was registered in one of the two California counties where there's no recurring registration requirement. I got a cat anyway. They make high-flow ones. Sadly, they are not legal for OBD-II vehicles...
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I had a '90 240SX and it was a blast to drive. Fortunately in Chicago, where I lived at the time, there is no requirement for cars manufactured in 1995 or previously to meet any emissions requirements or to even be tested.
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I miss that car a lot, but it wasn't practical here in pothole country because it had race suspension on it. That makes me miss it even more today... but (knock on wood) my A8 looks like it's going to pass smog finally. I guess that's assuming it doesn't have a bad cat or something. It got certified as a gross polluter but now I have a new knock sensor and new injector seals, and my lambda correction values look sensible so I'm going to give it another go. I have it on a temporary permit and it is a goddamn
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I had a '90 240SX and it was a blast to drive. Fortunately in Chicago, where I lived at the time, there is no requirement for cars manufactured in 1995 or previously to meet any emissions requirements or to even be tested.
Why is that "fortunate"?
That is terrible and is part of the problem of pollution, grandfathering...
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The US said that cars must meet certain standards in order to be sold in their country. Not only did the vehicles not meet those standards, but VW falsified the results. When someone breaks the law, they are typically told what they have to do. Sometimes it's jail time. Sometimes it's a fine. Sometimes it's community service. I guess this would be filed under the latter.
Suggesting that they should not be told what to do is counter productive. It would be akin to saying: these are the laws and there a
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*sighs* No, no we're not. They're arguing with an idiot who may (or may not be) self-identifying as a Libertarian. The important part is that they're quite probably retarded. Very few Libertarians are Anarchists. Some are minarchists. I'm actually damned near a Socialist - albeit for very different reasons, on the scale. Quite a few of us are similarly minded. Corporations have rights but they're somewhere below that of the individual and the commons. They are afforded certain protections and rights and hav
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You are disillusioned. The [..] government should not be telling companies, domestic or foreign, what products they must make or what services they must provide.
That is exactly what a government is for. If the "companies" don't grasp by themselves what products they must make or what services they must provide. then the government has to force them. That is why we vote for government representatives.
Oh, you must be american, never mind then ...
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Then make it a choice for them: "We can either fine you a bazillion dollars, which, based on your actions, you absolutely deserve, or you can help the country as a whole by doing these things, which will probably end up costing you less in the long run and maybe, just maybe, helping you regain the trust of the people you screwed." Then, they get to make the choice.
How does this "settlement" help the people who were defrauded by VW when they purchased these vehicles? How does this settlement change corporate behavior given that VW was already going to produce electric cars? How does this settlement do anything other than let VW and its shareholders off the hook?
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How DOES this let VW and its shareholders off the hook? Please explain. Seems like taking choice away and saying "do this or suffer" isn't letting them off the hoook.
From all accounts, VW will make things right with people who bought vehicles and were defrauded. If they ever expect to sell another vehicle, they'd fucking well better.
This is over and above that. Either become an environmentally responsible company, or perish.
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How DOES this let VW and its shareholders off the hook? Please explain. Seems like taking choice away and saying "do this or suffer" isn't letting them off the hoook.
VW was already planning on selling electric vehicles. So, in effect, their "punishment" is to do what they were already going to do.
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Re:This is good because of network nature (Score:4, Insightful)
The best solution would be to make VW to fix the mess and to put VW managment to jail. Hefty fine would probably hurt only VW employees anyway. Jail term would hopefully learn big fat cats that rules are to be obeyed.
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That would be fantastic, but company management is usually shielded by the corporation in this case.
A nice dose of "torches, pitchforks and guillotines" might be in order though.
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The best solution would be to make VW to fix the mess and to put VW managment to jail.
Sure, let's just go round up ol' Wolfgang Piech and tell him that he was very very naughty for telling all those departments that they had better produce a result OR THEY ARE GETTING FIRED... Let's face it, that's how capitalism works. You want to shake the trunk of that tree. Good luck!
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Why not? let's shake that trunk with pitchforks and guillotines.
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The best solution would be to make VW to fix the mess and to put VW managment to jail.
Given that the people ultimately responsible for the decision are not Americans and not living in America, how do you propose to do this?
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Black helicopters.
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That is pretty much standard procedure. They have made a conspiracy in order to break the US law, and they have broken USA law. US should bring charges against them in US court. If they don't appear in court, US can ask their extradition. If Germany refuses to do so, USA can make an international warrant for them. First time they leave Germany, the country where they are would arrest them and then USA will have to start a procedure to get them to USA. It takes some time, but it is pretty much standard and e
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Hefty fine would probably hurt only VW employees anyway.
Are you joking? I can't tell.
The "fine" and following lawsuits which are being proposed are actually enough to bankrupt the VAG. This does not ONLY impact VAG (VW Audi Group). There is a massive supply chain which goes into car production. There is a fare numbers of VWs made in the US, did you know that?
Did you know that a great many companies in the US produce the electronics for VW and Audi?
What about the dealers? Do they not employ people? VAG employees almost 600,000 people world wide. That is a LOT of
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put VW managment to jail
Why not put the people who did it in jail instead?
VW managment was the one who did this. They knew about this and did nothing about it, so they were/are a part of a criminal conspiracy.
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Right. A proper solution is that they take the 600,000 cars back and provide something that respects environmental norms, while providing at least the performance/quality/durability/confort/safety of the original product, and then also pay for the environmental impact.
Seriously? Slightly hypocritical considering the average american car pollutes more than the average VW diesel car.
Re:This is good because of network nature (Score:4, Informative)
Elon Musk had the same idea:
http://news.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
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it's actually a stupid solution, will compete with Tesla, an American company. Stupid America.
I'm fairly certain Tesla welcomes the competition. Their goal is less about selling cars and more about changing the world for the better.
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That and it pushes the EV market closer to the critical mass point where large scale deployment of charging stations becomes economically viable, thus ameliorating the largest barrier to buying and EV: range anxiety.
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Only electric in test mode (Score:5, Funny)
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Test engineer 1, "WTF? This electric car sure seems to need a lot of lubricating oil. Where does it go anyway? I don't see it leaking."
Test engineer 2, "I don't get it either. Are you feeling light headed too? I think we need to open a window on the car testing bay, get some fresh air in here."
VW asks US to resume rare earth mining (Score:2)
VW asks US to resume rare earth mining ... to supply the batteries for the electric cars which the US has asked VW to provide.
Re:VW asks US to resume rare earth mining (Score:4, Informative)
The typical electric vehicle battery pack - a lithium technology - uses no rare earth metals.
Don't confuse it with NiMH cells which often do use rare earth metals.
=Smidge=
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That may be true but I suspect the motor uses plenty of rare earth metals. While the GPP may have where those metals end up in the car wrong they do end up in the car somewhere.
An electric motor can certainly be made without rare earth metals but it will be heavier and less efficient. Given the weight and performance gap electric cars already have compared to internal combustion competitors they cannot afford to not use rare earth metals.
I'm sure someone is thinking that electric cars can outperform most
Re:VW asks US to resume rare earth mining (Score:5, Insightful)
That may be true but I suspect the motor uses plenty of rare earth metals. While the GPP may have where those metals end up in the car wrong they do end up in the car somewhere.
Your suspicions are most likely incorrect, unless you count copper as a rare earth metal. Most serious EV vehicles use AC motors. This is explicitly true for Tesla [teslamotors.com]. No rare earths are required for it's motor.
FTA: Unlike the DC brushless rotor, the induction rotor has no magnets – just stacked steel laminations with buried peripheral conductors that form a “shorted structure.”
It's the hybrids that are using DC motors that need magnets, preferably rare earth ones.
An electric motor can certainly be made without rare earth metals but it will be heavier and less efficient.
Not when you want performance, or go over a certain performance level:
Thus, the induction machine when operated with a smart inverter has an advantage over a DC brushless machine – magnetic and conduction losses can be traded such that efficiency is optimized. This advantage becomes increasingly important as performance is increased. With DC brushless, as machine size grows, the magnetic losses increase proportionately and part load efficiency drops. With induction, as machine size grows, losses do not necessarily grow. Thus, induction drives may be the favored approach where high-performance is desired; peak efficiency will be a little less than with DC brushless, but average efficiency may actually be better.
Diesel engines rule the road, rail, and sea.
Speaking of rails... Have you heard of the "Diesel-electric transmission" [wikipedia.org]? They've been in nearly all locomotives for many decades. We've had diesel electric ships since 1903, and their use is becoming more popular.
The concept is simple enough. Rather than having a mechanical gearbox, you hook your diesel engines up to a generator, then run power lines to electric motors that power the wheels. The diesel provides the energy, the motors provide the power for movement.
Well, let me know when electric tractor/trailers are on the market.
Consider [peterbilt.com] yourself [peterbilt.com] informed. [hybridsemitruck.com]
Until we get batteries that can compete with fuel oil and diesel fuel on weight, volume, and cost we will continue to see electric vehicles as novelties and penis size compensators.
Not really, the weight and energy density of diesel is not necessary for all applications, and batteries have (recently) become cheap enough that electric is finally cheaper than diesel - at least in the applications most suited for them. Tesla is looking to cut costs in half again for their batteries, allowing them to break into the market a step down from the luxury section.
Saying that electric won't be suitable for semi-tractor trailers anytime soon is like saying that jet engines aren't suited for use because they can't reach the moon. Long haul tractor trailers are the most demanding common application I can think of, the most suited for diesel. Long before they go electric, it will be highly practical and economical for 99% of consumer automobiles to be electric. Including trucks such as UPS delivery vehicles.
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There are no batteries in the drive train,
They've started to put batteries into the drive train though. Lets them save fuel when there are hills and such.
all the energy to move the vehicle come from the fuel.
That's the thing about electricity - there's fuel being used somewhere. Don't forget that some trains are hybrid - they can use power lines or a third rail when available to avoid having to burn on-board diesel.
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"Don't forget that some trains are hybrid - they can use power lines or a third rail when available to avoid having to burn on-board diesel."
Which means that they can run without electricity, but they won't run without diesel fuel.
If this were a discussion about diesel-electric cars then you might have a point but this is about battery electric vehicles. When those trains run from batteries on board then you can make your point. Until then battery electric vehicles remain a novelty.
Re: VW asks US to resume rare earth mining (Score:2)
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Clever (Score:2)
Instead of punishing, force them to invest. Maybe for a few years that is a loss for the company, but if played right it could actually help them in the long run. (Since it forces shareholders to accept reduced earnings for some time, which they normally would no be willing to).
EPA Settlements are corrupt (Score:4, Insightful)
The EPA of corrupt settlements in legal cases. If crimes were committed, why should VW (or anyone) get away with them by funding leftist feel-good projects? [forbes.com]
Here's hoping that the next administration starts "settling" these cases for an apology and a big donation to the NRA. Then maybe people will start paying attention to how corrupt this process is.
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That would require a Republican adminstration, which at this point woudl be Trump or Cruze. Fuck that shit. Either Hitler 2.0, or the living embodiment of Nehemiah Scudder.
I wont' accept either of those results.
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The risk of uncontrollable meltdowns is what killed the fusion car. It was in the design phase at some point, but never built due to concerns regarding collisions.
That, and the fact we don't even have static fusion power yet.
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I'm still not buying one until I can swap out the batteries with a nuclear reactor.
Alert: Low Fuel: 1,000,000,000 miles before empty.
Nah. Just the ability to swap the batteries at the "filling station" would be good enough. A 200 mile range is no problem if all you have to do is a 5 minute battery change.
Re: Nuclear Power (Score:2)
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At the moment there are no hydrogen refueling stations near most of the U.S. population. And when I just checked the California station finder map a significant fraction were "offline." On the other hand, almost everyone who can buy a new car also has electricity at their house. Our Tesla charges overnight at home - with nearly zero extra time taken beyond parking the car. Even if a fuel cell car fills faster, if I have to drive somewhere to fill it the time it takes out of my day is greater.
Tesla's superch
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Only an idiot would think that Fuel Cells have a chance.
Well, call me an idiot then. I think they have a chance simply because so much effort is being spent pushing them. EVs are scary to the entrenched energy cartels because you can charge them off-grid.
Re: US offer meant to ban VW form fuel-cell electr (Score:2)
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So, how will h2 compete?
It will compete just like Supercharger stations did even when there were few of them: in limited markets at first, but growing over time. Mind you, I think hydrogen is stupid, but it still has a chance to "succeed". Remember, it doesn't have to become the only motor fuel to be successful. It just has to make money.