Drone Believed To Have Hit British Airways Flight 'May Have Been a Plastic Bag' (telegraph.co.uk) 120
Reader schwit1 writes: The drone that reportedly hit a British Airways jet earlier this week may have actually been a plastic bag, a minister has said. Transport minister Robert Goodwill admitted authorities had not yet confirmed whether what struck the Airbus A320 was a remote-controlled device. The collision on Sunday night is believed to have been at around 1,700 ft near Richmond Park in south west London, over four times higher than the legal height limit. The Air Accidents Investigation Branch is investigating, alongside the Metropolitan Police. But following his comments today, Mr Goodwill also dismissed calls for tighter rules on drone use to protect against terror threats insisting current rules governing drone use were strong enough.From a Quartz report: Motherboard's Jason Koebler dove into the data the FAA released last August dove into the data the FAA released last August, and found that, among other things, "a 'large vulture,' a 'fast moving gray object,' a 'mini blimp,' a 'red UAS or balloon,' and 'a UFO' were all classified as drones in the FAA's report." This led him to decide that, when it comes to verifiable sightings -- even from trained pilots -- "drones are the new UFOs."
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Who says they are? They have volunteers that do it for "job experience" and "exposure"
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I know what I'm giving out for the holidays this year!
Re:It was flying, it was autonomous (Score:4, Funny)
I just got a load of drones from the grocery store yesterday.
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It's a bird, it's a bag, it's super drone!
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"They simply don't know yet."
Indeed. but it's been pointed out a few times that the rise in reported drone near misses at Heathrow is only matched by the fall in bird near misses at Heathrow.
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So an unidentified flying object was a UFO? (Score:1)
Preposterous.
How does a plastic bag get to 1700 feet? (Score:2, Interesting)
Tornado in London? Don't think so.
A kids helium balloon maybe.
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Cued observer, as in cued in to what to look for?
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No tornado needed, just a thermal updraft. I routinely fly my sailplane to 10,000 feet or more on thermal lift...my area gets stronger ones than Britain usually does, but they have a very active soaring community too.
Ever see a dust devil? That's a thermal.
Re:How does a plastic bag get to 1700 feet? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would you want to fly a drone costing hundreds/thousands of dollars 1700 feet?
That is the part about all this Rogue Dronery the fact that these things are not cheap, why would you want to risk them for general hooliganism.
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You would be amazed. No tornado in London, surely but how about a small vortex in the corner of a building just about strong enough to lift a plastic bag?
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It doesn't take much to make those things float up and out of sight. Ants have blown to the top of the Empire State building, so a 1700 foot altitude plastic bag is pretty believable.
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Drones set up to broadcast video should be detectable with the right gear. I am sure Thales would sell you an integrated drone detector for a few hundred kEUR.
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My city banned stores from giving them out a few years ago. It is a much more pleasant world without them. We allow paper bags, but the store is required to charge 5 cents each for them.
Before the ban, stores were practically forcing plastic bags on me, even when I didn't need them. Because clerks are lazy and distracted. Now, people bring their own bags most of the time, and if they forget it only costs them 5 cents. The streets aren't littered with an excess of bags anymore. The doom and gloom the store o
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5 cents is a deal. Here we're charging 10 cents but that's not the reason I write.
I went into a Vons here awhile back with my nice canvas bags. I had the bags in my cart and turned to grab something. When I turned back around maybe a few seconds later someone had stolen my canvas bags!
When I thought about it I figured out that each bag cost be $7.50 (they ARE nice bags). Given that, I use maybe two bags per trip to the store and do that twice a week. So, 0.10*2*2*4 = $1.60/month. So in replacing my bags th
the "sharing economy" (Score:2)
Also, today I learned we need to register leaf blowers and plastic shopping bags or else the terrorists win.
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If I have a cart, I put my bags under the cart on that shelf that was apparently made for cases of beer and sugardrink.
I made my wife a fancy canvas bag, but she uses it as a purse. Oops. I guess there is about a $5 limit before a bag becomes impractical for shopping.
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I bought a couple of dozen cloth bags a while ago (likely not as nice as your bags) for 9 cents each. I'm ahead of the curve on their first use.
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You don't have to just stand by, you can also get busy lamenting or prognosticating.
At least UFO was an apt description (Score:2, Insightful)
Tho people think they mean aliens when they here UFO pilots reporting thing as a UFO just makes sense, it was flying and they didnt know what it was.
BS (Score:1)
Mr Goodwill also dismissed calls for tighter rules on drone use to protect against terror threats insisting current rules governing drone use were strong enough.
Bullshit.
This is Britain. I don't believe for a second ANYONE in government believes ANY rules is EVER "strong enough".
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I think his name is a trap too!
Translation (Score:2)
People far more qualified than I have reported their firsthand knowledge (
It may have been a parrot, Mr. Prime Minister (Score:2)
A parrot?
Aye sir, it's resting now.
Resting? You mean it wasn't killed?
No sir, it's just pining for the fjords.
Clever (Score:2)
Drones disguised as plastic bags? What will these clever terrorists think of next?
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Laser pointers disguised as flash-lights!
But... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a terrorist wants to use a drone to attack a plane, what regulation is going to stop them? They already are looking at breaking murder laws, so why would they care about drone laws?
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
Same logic as with the CCTVs.
"That's going to protect us from the terrorists."
"Erh... how?"
"Well, we can see them!"
"They don't care, they blow themselves to kingdom come anyway, you think they worry about us being able to prosecute them?"
"But we'll KNOW when they're doing it!"
"Erh... I thought the big bad KABLAMMO gave that away anyway..."
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Actually, it's more like laws in general. The law itself cannot prevent a crime. The law just provides an avenue to pursue justice after the crime has been committed. There is a deterrent effect, as well, but that's truly not the primary purpose. Same with CCTVs. They don't prevent crime, but they do provide an avenue to pursue justice by providing evidence of the crime and the perpetrators. We may debate whether or not CCTVs are an overstep of government authority in the name of security, like guns, t
Re:But... (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, the legislative provides more and more laws that you can less and less obey, and the cameras provide the footage to ensure we WILL find something to tack to you if we need to silence you.
Did I get that right?
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Yep, you see the truth that so many others are wilfully ignorant of...
Pass so many laws that EVERYONE is a lawbreaker and can be arrested at any time...
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"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
Allegedly Cardinal Richelieu said that. It could have been a contemporary judge, though, source is disputed.
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Sure, if that makes you feel better. Most of us think CCTVs are an overstep, but that's not the point. I was merely pointing out that the Laws, in and of themselves, don't necessarily prevent crime; they only provide an avenue to pursue justice. Again, we can debate the merits of CCTV surveillance (and I fall firmly in the camp of "jesus fucking christ, this shit is obnoxious"), but your hyperbole is rather tiring.
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The moment a CCTV can actually stop someone from killing me we can talk about their value. Why should I give half a shit if you find the guy that killed me? I'm dead, most likely blown to pieces that I couldn't even give a shit if I really wanted to, for my guts are somewhere up on the lamp post.
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A CCTV can prevent the second murder, not the first. But preventing the second murder is arguably better than preventing none at all.
It depends on your assumptions. You seem to be basing your reality predictions on the premise that all people are equally likely to commit murder. Most measurements of objective reality seem to indicate that a tiny minority of the population commit most murders, and most crimes are committed by repeat offenders. A CCTV can prevent a repeat, or at least decrease the frequen
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For suicide bombers, CCTVs are a waste, for a criminal that just wants to steal or vanadlize and survive and not get identified or caught on the other hand...
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If a terrorist wants to use a drone to attack a plane, what regulation is going to stop them?
The regulation that says that no drones may be flying within a few miles of an airstrip, regardless of intent. Then when they pull out the drone and start prepping it to fly, they get arrested then, rather than after their drone ran into an engine intake.
They already are looking at breaking murder laws, so why would they care about drone laws?
They won't care about the punishment for breaking drone laws, but violating the drone laws allows law enforcement to see what exactly they're up to, which may interrupt their other plans.
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You naive SJWs are so cute...
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If a terrorist wants to use a drone to attack a plane, what regulation is going to stop them? They already are looking at breaking murder laws, so why would they care about drone laws?
Laws like this have nothing to do with preventing crime. It's all about control of the people, and the appearance of "doing something" without all the inconvenience of actually having to do something. This is the same argument we have about gun laws in the states. It's already illegal to shoot someone, so how are more gun laws going to stop that? But they keep passing more restrictive laws banning the use or possession of this and that, without addressing the underlying problems. They banned texting while d
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No, it's done VERY purposefully.
There are so many laws between local cities/villages/towns, counties, states, and federal that EVERYONE is guilty of something whether they realize it or not...
TIME FOR ACTION! (Score:5, Insightful)
WE need a national registry of plastic bags! have licenses issues where all plastic bags should carry the license number of the person that owns it!
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Definitely serial numbers on each bag, and no bags without a government ID. We'll get you, my pretty!
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They're outlawing them because they have been found to cause cancer in California.
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Careful there, you do know some people want to ban plastic bags for real, right? No need to give them any more ideas.
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Careful there, you do know some people want to ban plastic bags for real, right?
Careful there, you do know that many locations have ALREADY banned plastic bags for real, right? Plastic bags are banned in my city, San Jose CA. They are also banned in San Francisco (of course) and the entire state of Hawaii.
I carry a cardboard box, and a few reusable fabric bags in my car. The bag ban is no big deal, and I think is is probably a good idea. It seems to have reduced visible litter. In Hawaii, the number of sea turtles killed after ingesting plastic bags, which look like jellyfish, has
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This is one of the few reasons it is good to live in New Jersey. Some newbie legislator proposes a plastic bag ban, claims it's good for the environment. The legislature has a little chuckle and one of his colleagues takes him aside and says "Look, I know you mean well, but this is New Jersey. Have you SEEN the environment? Covering the place with plastic bags could only be an improvement".
Are we even sure it was an Airbus? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The race to be first post has really made modern journalism nothing more than a professional game of crying wolf.
True, except for the "modern" part. There is nothing new about rushing to publish. Just ask President Dewey [wikipedia.org].
New regulations won't be effective (Score:1)
I don't think new regulations will be effective. I speak from the point of view of someone in the US.
The rules are pretty illogical here. A drone that weighs two points is regulated the same way as a drone that weighs 50 points. Obviously, one of these is a much larger collision risk than the other. It also doesn't take into account the propulsion. A drone with a small jet engine can travel a lot faster than a simple quadcopter, and therefore can have more momentum to cause greater damage. Yet both are regu
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The regulations will be very effective in what they are intended to accomplish: expand the power of regulators and police to arrest, charge, and fine you at their whim; create a government monopoly on information; require government approval and fees for starting new businesses They won't increase public safety or reduce terrorism, but that was never the point.
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The regulations will be very effective in what they are intended to accomplish: expand the power of regulators and police to arrest, charge, and fine you at their whim; create a government monopoly on information; require government approval and fees for starting new businesses They won't increase public safety or reduce terrorism, but that was never the point.
I agree, but other than to continue my personal rebellion of only yielding when I must, I can't see much of a way to fight. I'm open to suggestions, though.
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Be creative. Make stuff that pushes boundaries while not violating the letter of the law. Demonstrate the absurdity of the regulations through culture jamming.
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Be creative. Make stuff that pushes boundaries while not violating the letter of the law. Demonstrate the absurdity of the regulations through culture jamming.
I don't know what culture jamming is.
Well, right now I have a $600 fine to pay or else I go to jail. The people who will get the money are as corrupt and vicious as they come. I won't name them (using my real name), because they can easily retaliate (and they have guns), but it's a small municipal government. I could avoid paying if I leave the state. If I were a bit richer/more mobile, I'd do it.
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Sorry to hear that. If you actually and clearly violated drone regulations, it's probably hard to get out of.
What I was suggesting was creative ways of protesting such laws and demonstrates how arbitrary they are without actually breaking them. Generally, I wouldn't advise breaking laws, even the obviously bad ones.
Motherboard's Jason Koebler (Score:1)
So this guy looked at an FAA report from last August and saw that a bag would be classified as a UFO in the USA. Then he makes the leap that the object reported by the pilots in England as a drone might be a bag. Really?
There is no connection at all between the FAA report and the strike in London.
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It was Black Bag, the Faithful Border Bin Liner (Score:2)
Black Bag, the Faithful Border Bin Liner [google.com]
Easy mistake with what pilots have to think about (Score:2)
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You may want to switch positions before final then.
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Good thing they're shinning. Don't want to get sued.
Who cares about facts? (Score:3)
Ban private drones anyway! They take the jobs of good, hard working delivery drivers! They might be used to spy on children! They are technology and Google and Amazon like them, so they must be evil! Get out the pitchforks!
Countermeasures (Score:2)
I propose that all plastic bags be registered with the FAA to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. If you are under 13, you must have your parents register your plastic bag instead.
Are there no boundary layers (Score:2)
I had the impression that planes had a layer of laminar flow around the fuselage. So something like a 10gram plastic bag wouldn't actually make contact with the bodywork. Would you even expect a lightweight drone to get through that layer?
I can see that a heavy drone (one with enough battery power to lift it to 1700 ft might do, but if so, you'd definitely see a mark on the side.
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It's not a worry that the drone will hit the plane, it's that the drone will get sucked into the engine.
Or it may have been a commercial drone test (Score:1)
But we'll never know.
Because if it was a commercial test of drone delivery and it strayed in and hit a small jet, they'll never admit that it's really really stupid to fly drones anywhere.
Except for the ones I helped build for Boeing. Those are supposed to kill people. That's their job.
most likely a kite (Score:3)
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Think that is a surprising twist. . . (Score:4, Funny)
Tagged: ROFLcopter (Score:2)
See subject.
If I were a commercial pilot... (Score:1)
Doesn't Matter (Score:2)
Politicians will likely through passing laws against drones--even if the reason is invalid.
Some years ago, one of the anti-rave acts was passed using scientific tests accidentally done with meth. It's not like the repealed the foundation-less law.
I had a similar incident in my Cessna (Score:3)
I was flying along the coast, just south of San Francisco, when a small dot caught my eye. Flying is typically 99% boring and 1% terrifying -- this was the 1% that day -- I thought it was another plane headed right for me.
About a second later, it was clear that it was a small balloon, and I flew right past it. Just for fun, I entered a 360 degree turn to see it again -- the fun part was that as I came around it was still caught in the vortex from my wing, and was spinning madly! I was surprised, as it probably took well over a minute to make the turn; I didn't realize that even 1,500 lb Cessnas would generate vortices with that much endurance. I treated big jets with a lot more respect after that.
A lot of people now look like complete idiots now (Score:2)
For example, in the recent original /. story...