Study: '50% of Misogynistic Tweets From Women' (bbc.com) 291
An anonymous reader writes: A study performed by researchers behind the Internet campaign "Reclaim," suggests that half of all misogynistic tweets posted on Twitter come from women. The campaign is designed to show the public the impact of hate speech and abuse on social media. They have opened an online forum to discuss ways to make the internet less aggressive, sexist, racist and homophobic. For the study, thinktank Demos counted the number of uses of "slut" and "whore" were used on Twitter to indicate misogyny. They analyzed 1.5 million tweets sent by UK Twitter users over a three-week period and used its own Natural Language Processing tool to filter the tweets in order to determine whether they were used aggressively, conversationally, or for self-identification. Demos found 6,500 unique users being targeted by 10,000 explicitly aggressive and misogynistic tweets. Internationally, they recorded more than 200,000 aggressive tweets using the same terms that were sent to 80,000 people in the same three-week period. It claims it found 50 percent of the abusive tweets to have come from women. BBC also notes a study performed in 2014 from cosmetics firm Dove that found over five million negative tweets were posted about beauty and body image. Four out of five of those tweets were sent by women.
I totally agree with their methodology. (Score:2)
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Who's a slut? Me! Me! I'll be a slut! (Score:3, Insightful)
The way society is today, in most cases, only a black person is likely to remain socially (and perhaps physically) unchallenged if calling a black person, including themselves, a "nigger." It fairly clearly follows that only a woman is likely to be able to call another woman a slut under the same broad umbrella of conceptual shared circumstances.
Sometimes a black person may mean "nigger" just as it is defined: ignorant, etc. Or some variation of ironic racist classing, inclusive or not. Sometimes, it's a te
Re:Who's a slut? Me! Me! I'll be a slut! (Score:2)
woman within my esthetic preference range
Brilliant.
Re:Does anyone else hate Discourse forums? (Score:4, Insightful)
It isn't nicknamed dick sauce (or disco horse or other variants) for nothing.
This very study is problematic... (Score:5, Funny)
... and misogynistic, again proving the need for for to take gender studies degrees.
Clearly these women have deeply rooted cases of internalized misogyny thanks to the always present patriarchy.
Down with STEM!
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Yep- who you are matters almost as much as what you're saying, and for good reason. Even a word like "baby" changes its meaning depending on who's saying it to whom. A parent calling his kid a "baby" is one thing; a boss calling his secretary "baby" is not only creepy, it's revealing.
It always amazes me when white people complain they can't use "nigger" even though black people use it when referring to each other, and they start whining about political correctness and freedom of speech. They seem unable to
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So the boss telling the secretary that just threw a tantrum a baby is creepy and revealing? Would it be creepy and revealing if the boss is a woman? Just wondering...
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Some of us don't necessarily care not to offend. Freedom of speech in a civil society should mean you *can* ring the bell without fearing a violent mob. If the offended is at least as civilized as the offender they would return with a simialr stinging verbal barb, but that inst what happens much of the time.
Re:This very study is problematic... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, we've learned by now that not the word matters, but who uses it. And it sure wasn't a Feminist that taught us, it was the late George Carlin, philosopher and wise cracker.
"You know how Eddie Murphy talks about niggers? Does that mean Eddie Murphy is a racist? OF course not. Eddie Murphy isn't a racist. He's a nigger"
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... and misogynistic, again proving the need for for to take gender studies degrees.
Clearly these women have deeply rooted cases of internalized misogyny thanks to the always present patriarchy.
Down with STEM!
Exactly. By their criteria men and women expressing support for the slut walk [wikipedia.org] campaign would be counted as misogynistic
Re:This very study is problematic... (Score:5, Informative)
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Not quite [slashdot.org] 100%.
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Did you mean misandry or misanthropy?
The problem in trying to measure that is the insults that men use against each other aren't misandric , they are either homophobic (ex: fag) or misogynistic (ex: pussy). I can't think of any good examples of misandry used in casual insults among men, I'm not saying it never happens, it just doesn't seem obvious to me.
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I can't think of any good examples of misandry used in casual insults among men
"Soft cock".
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Dick.
Re:This very study is problematic... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh c'mon, that is a good joke going to waste. Here's how you do it:
No, 100% of misanthropic tweets come from men.
Why? 'cause there's no computer in the kitchen.
See? It ain't that hard.
Re:This very study is problematic... (Score:5, Insightful)
Somehow, I don't imagine this woman is a conservative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
From what we know of TrigglyPuff, she's not either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
In some places in the middle-east for example? Sure... yet that's not where we usually hear screams of patriarchy from/about.
What then of the women supporting Sanders 'for the boys' [theguardian.com]?
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Women are attracted to patriarchs, though. Leadership personality traits always boosts sexual market value.
And not "broken" women. I have met (and dated) actual broken (by severe child abuse) women (two, to be precise). Those were the only ones I have ever met that authentically disliked alpha-males, and were only happy when intimate with submissive men.
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Call me silly, but I try to treat women like human beings. And I like women who treat me like a human being.
(if you met me in person, you'd be seriously mistaken if you confused me as "submissive".)
Re:This very study is problematic... (Score:5, Insightful)
The truth is that the VAST majority of women have no interest in the rules or roles that feminists want to impose upon them. It has nothing to do with "conservatism". Women freely choose to engage in objectifying themselves. It was one of the earliest forms of women's lib.
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Overuse of the word "misogyny" (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because someone says something sexist or funny does not make him a "misogynist". I know lots of people who say sexist stuff, some of which is true, but no one I know actually hates women.
Thanks, Slashdot, for continuing to misuse the term.
Re:Overuse of the word "misogyny" (Score:4, Insightful)
It's *current year*, and disagreeing with a women on the internet is the definition of misogyny, duh!
Why let facts or actual motivations get in the way of a good ole 2 minutes hate... which should have ended decades ago?
Re:Overuse of the word "misogyny" (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know the context from the quote to I cannot comment much aside from doesn't sound like she hates women.
One of the interesting points that I have heard from her and my wife (who listens to her more than I) is if you call the women's abuse hotline it is; "go here we will help you, support you, etc." Call the mens hotline; "If you believe you are about to abuse your spouse." ( not quite the same thing but similar that sort of corroborates what they have said [nationalpa...zation.org])
This disparity seems to be what Karen is mostly on about. Women can be the perpetrators of domestic violence [saveservices.org] yet we have seen feminists not only mock but block any effort to help victims. [nationalpost.com]
There are legitimate reasons for MRAs to exist right now because there are objective legal rights and laws that favor women over men this being one example. I do not know of a single objective law or right that favors men so explicitly.
the movement as a whole is associated with groups like A Voice for Men and tends to spout misogynist rhetoric via its website.
Yes, groups have extremist elements to it that does not undermine the objective rights that MRAs are seeking that men do not have. I have gotten in many arguments with MGTOW and other actual misogynists but from what I have seen is that most of their hatred comes from being abused either emotionally or physically.
One quote out of context is not enough for me to call someone a misogynists. Especially when I have listened to their podcast (granted in the background so not really hanging on every word) and heard their ideas. They do not come off as misogynist. They seem concerned with the current state of affairs that says women can only be victims. She has identified laws that are sexists against men. She wants legal gender equality that currently favor women. How is that misogynist?
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This seems oddly appropriate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Sure, some MRAs might be dicks... but there are legitimate concerns that should not be swept under the rug because muh soggy knees.
Re:Overuse of the word "misogyny" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Overuse of the word "misogyny" (Score:5, Insightful)
There are some people who can't fathom or won't face why they're being treated with disrespect, contempt, or even paternalism, and can't get their heads around the possibility that it's *them* - their own personality - so they shift the burden to a much more comfortable stance - "you're a misogynist". That way they don't have to deal with uncomfortable facts about themselves.
Not saying that's the majority, but those types seem to be the most vocal about it.
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Just because someone says something sexist
In fairness, sexist is frequently misogynist.
Though some people will throw out words like 'sexist' or 'misogynist' when someone points out the obvious fact that men and women are not biologically identical.
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If you employ a double standard, then you are a bigot. It doesn't matter what brand you are. The problem with feminists is they fixate on only one group of people and their interests.
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Now who's got double standards?
No activist ever advocates for all of humanity, for incredibly obvious reasons, and yet you choose to only single out feminists. Your double standards are at least as bad as those you accuse others of having.
Strange definition... (Score:5, Insightful)
Could the terms not have been used — if only in some cases — to indicate unhealthy promiscuity or express some other disapproval (e.g. "He is such a ratings-whore!")?
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Even worse, what idiot thinks that only "slut" and "whore" indicate misogyny?
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Women actually. Oddly enough, the individuals who use "slut and whore" the most often are...women at least in my neck of the woods. Seems to me that a lot of people have forgotten high school and exactly how mean and vindictive women can be to not only other women, but to men as well. There's a reason why "mean girls" is not a stereotype.
Re:Strange definition... (Score:5, Funny)
...number of uses of "slut" and "whore"...
A mildly comical story: The word "slut" - spelled exactly like that - means "the end" or "finished" in Danish. It became a bit embarassing once, in the 60es, I think, when they Danish Film Institute produced an educational documentary about life in Greenland in the modern world. It ended with a scene of a young, Greenlandish woman walking away from the camera and and the narrator asking "What does the future hold for her?2 - followed, as in all Danish films, by the word "SLUT". This was distributed to several countries, of course, what else?
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Or even just posting anti-slut-shaming messages etc.
I'm also interested to know how they determined the gender of random_twitter_user_93.
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50% off is still a good deal, even if they are from women.
I think it is saying women get 50% off their misogynistic tweets, which is unfair.
Misandry (Score:4, Insightful)
So when do they study misandry and start to treat that as seriously as misogyny? You can't be gender inclusive when you officially ignore hate speech and discrimination against half the population.
Re:Misandry (Score:4, Insightful)
Jesus christ please no. I don't want fat neckbearded activists to use me as a shield while they openly display their batshit insanity and spout extreme bigotry on the internet and call it "progressivism". I don't want women at work to walk on eggshells around me because they're afraid I'll call them "misandrist" and they'll get fired. I don't want the retards to turn on me if I tell them to stop using me as a shield because "I'm in debt to them" and there's nothing a cult hates more than an apostate.
I just want the madness to end, from both sides. Thank god people at least laugh at MRAs, even if they tolerate feminists.
Re:Misandry (Score:5, Insightful)
I do. The only way this is going to "end, from both sides" is if women pay some kind of price for the monster they've created.
People laugh at MRAs (Score:4, Informative)
Thank god people at least laugh at MRAs
Yes they do, but the father's amongst them stop laughing and join them when they loose their children to state sponsored sexual discrimination in family court. The common default custody arrangement in US family law is for the man to get 1 day per week custody and the woman to get 6 days per week, the man then has the privilege of paying the expenses for the extra time that is AUTOMATICALLY awarded to the woman. A recent bill in Florida that tried to change the mandated default to 50/50 custody was vetoed by the governor. Ironically every mainstream feminist organisation in the US continues to lobby in support of the only current example of systemic state sponsored sexual discrimination anyone can point to in the US.
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Jesus christ please no. I don't want fat neckbearded activists to use me as a shield while they openly display their batshit insanity and spout extreme bigotry on the internet and call it "progressivism". I don't want women at work to walk on eggshells around me because they're afraid I'll call them "misandrist" and they'll get fired. I don't want the retards to turn on me if I tell them to stop using me as a shield because "I'm in debt to them" and there's nothing a cult hates more than an apostate.
I just want the madness to end, from both sides. Thank god people at least laugh at MRAs, even if they tolerate feminists.
Seconded. I could not have said it better myself (Quoting this in full, because parent is not moderated high enough).
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I just want the madness to end, from both sides. Thank god people at least laugh at MRAs, even if they tolerate feminists.
MRAs are a reaction to 3rd wave feminists, radfems and TERFs pushing so hard that men are now being disadvantaged in the legal system and other facets of society. Ever wonder why today's feminism goes out of it's way to attack individuals? It's because every other facet is scared that a group of shrieking harpies screaming sexism will show up and they'll have a PR problem. It's not any different then the long-cons run by Al Sharpton, et.al., either based on race.
I'm sure not a MRA, but I can sure see whe
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I don't know why this is downvoted. The message of "stop the insanity" is a sound one.
Easy. There's an entire generation of special snowflakes out there who believe that their feelings need to be protected. There's an entire group of people out there who are enabling and trying to make sure that their feelings won't get hurt...instead of making people grow up and learn that the world really doesn't give a shit for your feelings and the sooner you learn that, the better of a person you'll be because of it. They don't want to admit that they are in the wrong, that they've damaged an entire
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Well volunteered!
You are about to run off and do that study, right? Or are you just complaining about what some other people choose to study.
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There's a reasonable argument that discrimination and other negativity directed towards women is more frequent, more pervasive, and more harmful, and that it's an efficient use of their energy to prioritize fighting that.
There are, however, people who think misandry does not exist, or worse, who think discriminating against men is perfectly fine, and in fact men who complain about it aren't "real men" in the first place. These hypocrites are utterly blind to their own bigotry.
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So when do they study misandry and start to treat that as seriously as misogyny? You can't be gender inclusive when you officially ignore hate speech and discrimination against half the population.
When it's as serious a problem as misogyny.
I'm not saying to ignore misandry, it should be studied and I'm sure people are studying it. But misogyny, especially online, is far more prevalent, arguably a much bigger problem, and rightly deserves the majority of the attention.
Re:Misandry (Score:5, Insightful)
No. You're just applying the usual double standard. Men are expected to be strong and women are expected to be weak and you are just feeding that whole bit of social indoctrination.
You're doing more harm than good with the pity party.
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No. You're just applying the usual double standard. Men are expected to be strong and women are expected to be weak and you are just feeding that whole bit of social indoctrination.
You're doing more harm than good with the pity party.
Ahh yes the old "any attempt to defend women from misogyny is really misogynist!"
Your comment would be fair if men and women received similar amounts of online abuse, particularly abused based on their gender. But women do get more harassment, especially harassment based on their gender, it's a bad thing and I'm not going to stop fighting it because of some cheap rhetorical trick.
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Misogeny and misandry are not two unrelated problems - they are two sides of the same coin. Studying only part of the problem means that we miss out on properly understanding the problem as a whole. And without properly understanding the problem, how are we going to find a proper solution?
There's also things that are fairly specific to misogyny.
The fact that there's good studies you can do of misogyny and misandry doesn't mean every study has to be a study of misogyny and misandry.
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Your comment would be fair if men and women received similar amounts of online abuse, particularly abused based on their gender. But women do get more harassment, especially harassment based on their gender,
Nope. All studies thus far show that men overwhelming get more harassment, both online and offline. You belief is a myth, and it's an unfortunate one because it reinforces paternalistic sexism ("If we men don't protect women, who will?").
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When it's as serious a problem as misogyny.
I'm not saying to ignore misandry, it should be studied and I'm sure people are studying it. But misogyny, especially online, is far more prevalent, arguably a much bigger problem, and rightly deserves the majority of the attention.
Women are strong, independent, and just the equals of men!
Until things get just a bit difficult, and then they scream that men need to defend them. Yep that's a great example of sexism.
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So when do they study misandry and start to treat that as seriously as misogyny?
I assume that by "they", you're not referring to these researchers in particular. I assume you mean researchers in general. So help me out here: How much research of your own did you do before you came to the conclusion that this is not a serious and active topic of research?
Having said all that, let me remind you what we're talking about here. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but women comprise some of (possibly most of) the worst policers of women's appearance/behaviour/whatever out there. If you don'
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I once got into a debate with a sociology student who insisted that "bitch" was gendered but "dick" was not. Most of the argument consisted of "bitch" was personally very offensive to her while growing up but "dick" wasn't therefore bitch was bad and dick was fine. The exact opposite argument using the same standard (that "I didn't find bitch personally very offensive") didn't seem to hold any weight.
Re:Misandry (Score:5, Insightful)
Ah, you see the (modern) feminists have already thought ahead of that. Because of patriarchy, males are the dominant gender, and therefore it is not possible to be sexist against them. Somehow, they managed to make females the minority, even though there's more females than males. This applies similarly to race and sexuality. So if you one the birth lottery by being born a white straight male, then they can criticise you for all those things and it's not racist or sexist, purely because the minorities are incapable of being so. By some strange (lack of) logic, they firmly believe that.
In my mind, the "logic" is similar to dehumanising ideologies and practices such as lebensraum and untermensch, the bourgeoisie, eugenics, all in order to justify to their minds why they can hate other people purely for aspects that they were born with and couldn't control. In other words, they have other motives, but need some sort of justifiable "reasons" which appear to stand to some scrutiny.
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they can criticise you for all those things and it's not racist or sexist, purely because the minorities are incapable of being so.
Yup, that is how political correctness is used to create bigoted taboos, and they are a bane to positive devopment of any society (democratic or otherwise).
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> Because of patriarchy, males are the dominant gender, and therefore it is not possible to be sexist against them. Somehow, they managed to make females the minority, even though there's more females than males. This applies similarly to race and sexuality.
You make it out as if it is a man against women thing, which it is not. It is about a society, which has internalised a male dominant role. Strangely enough, that does include women.
Many men profit from that, but also some men suffer from the very sa
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Masculinity isn't toxic. But we define what is toxic about it and it is just a coincidence any disagreement with this comes from its toxicity. Our cargo-cult research is totally infallible. Except the research that doesn't confirm our biases.
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Well to take your complaint perfectly seriously, you have to factor in the way cowardly little shits like to operate. They like easy, safe targets. Women have to deal with a pervasive threat of sexual violence. Every time a woman goes into a darkened parking garage, the possibility she might get raped is in the back of her mind. A man might worry he'll be robbed; maybe even killed. But he takes it for granted he won't be tortured and sexually humiliated.
And if you're craven little bastard you exploit tha
50% eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
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> If that's the case, maybe it's the women that need to change?
So are you saying, men don't?
I do not see quite the logic conclusion from your first sentence. I would see, that men and women (society) has to change.
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Actually, you are in the right area with that observation. This is what feminism calls "patriarchy", the inherent bias towards masculine ideals that is baked in to society and causes both genders to act against their own interests. Women judging the way other women dress, called slut-shaming, is a good example.
It's not really a case of men/women need to change though. I mean, they do, but not by concentrating on changing them individually. It's an institutional problem, society needs to change and most peop
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I feel bad for making this comment because you're on the right side, but - sheesh - slut-shaming isn't about how women dress ...
While you are technically correct (best kind etc) shaming women for how they dress is typically a kind of slut-shaming.
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If 50% of all misogynistic tweets come from women, then it can fairly easily be extrapolated that the whole of modern culture hates women equally.
If that's the case, maybe it's the women that need to change?
I am actually surprised it is not more, since they words they looked for was "slut" and "whore", words primarily used by jealous/in-fighting women and spurned men.
And I don't think either group hates women, they are just reacting using hateful speech because they hate one particular person at that particular time.
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Re: 50% eh? (Score:2)
That's because there's a lot of modern feminist writing that does just that or dismisses our problems because "we" rule the world.
less human (Score:2)
" ways to make the internet less aggressive, sexist, racist and homophobic"
i stand behind the zeroth law.
Slut/Whore. (Score:5, Interesting)
Rerun the test with Bitch and Cunt. See if the demographics don't change.
I'm not saying men don't say 'slut' and 'whore'. But those terms are mostly used by catty bitches talking shit about each other. Truth: Most men kind of like sluts, less work. It's women that hate sluts, sluts drive down 'the market' for pussy.
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No less ugly than any other cartel.
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This is based on the assumption that most women see their vagina as having some kind of market value, i.e. as something they can trade. Some men see it that way because they value vaginas highly themselves, or because it suits their philosophy. That explains why they don't understand women's behaviour and think they are acting irrationally too - most women don't think of their bodies as some kind of asset to be marketed to men, at least not outside of very narrow circumstances.
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most women don't think of their bodies as some kind of asset to be marketed to men
Are you kidding? Have you not seen the cosmetic industry? Or the fashion industry? They're called "Industries" for a reason, and they're not gigantic because women just want to look pretty for themselves.
Just like other slurs... (Score:2)
Just like other slurs, those words are "their words." Perhaps women use them with the justification that they can empathize with the impact of them, but men cannot.
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just like other slurs... they are wrong and perpetuate that which they should condemn in themselves.
Advancing science (Score:2)
It's always good to have quantitative data, though the definition of misogynist seems a little vague and unreliable.
But I hope they don't expect anyone to be surprised by this.
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What's your definition of misogynist? (Score:2)
This proves exactly nothing (Score:2)
I bet you that 50% of Nazi jokes are made by women as well. I make racist, homophobic and sexist jokes. I am in no way any of those things (and no, I am not interested in being told otherwise by a stranger). Those types of jokes and words are funny because we know they are absurd and a bit innapropriate.
This does not mean that racism, homophobia and sexism do not exist. Simply that the only way to identify those attitudes in a person is to discuss what they believe and watch what they do. A study like this
What are the odds? (Score:2)
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What's the over/under on the majority of these misogynistic women self-identify as "feminists"?
Not likely, I'd venture. Some local activists here did a "Free the Nipple" campaign last year, and the excoriating indictments against them mostly came from "conservative women". These "women of God" said things that'd peel paint off your wall. Some feminists thought that they were engaging the patriarchy, but most were supportive.
Most men (over seventeen) were of the "whatever, I'm going fishing" take.
men are still at fault, of course (Score:5, Funny)
If women engage in "misogynistic speech", it must be because men forced them to internalize misogyny! What other explanation could there be?
Humans are quite complex things. (Score:2)
Trying to get to the truth using simple widespread generalizations and dividing people into groups is a fool's errands that will most likely fail on the worst way possible.
slut and whore? (Score:3)
Those are the words they are using to determine the percentage of female Twitter bullies?
This doesn't prove women bully other women as much as men do, it just proves women are a lot less creative in their bullying (clearly no one involved in the study is actually a woman receiving any typical form of Twitter misogyny). But I guess that's the kind of idiotic non-science you get from a "think tank"...
Terrible headlines that don't reflect the study (Score:2)
By the same logic, would they conclude that the vast majority of racists against black people are black because they are the ones who use the word "Nigger" (or derivatives) more? I have heard many instances of women calling each other slut as a friendly nickname, with no offense meant. Perhaps a bit misguided, but definitely not misogynistic on itself.
Though in all fairness, the study itself does not conclude that half of misogynistic tweets come from women. They report that half of the usage of the words '
Woman that don't like competition... (Score:2)
call other woman sluts because they are affraid "their" men will more easily start an affair with them and they don't want to invest effort in more sex to keep them,
New dictionary entry (Score:4, Insightful)
misogyny, n: Disagreeing with a Feminist.
Poor assumptions, unacceptable methodology. (Score:2)
Phrasing along the lines of, "just another dumb bitch", generalizes
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Fuck you! If you want a clean one, start your own.
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i agree women should have their own internet, however i do contend that an inclusive policy be established and all those identifying as men can use the real internet anyway ;)
Re: You think? (Score:2)
People are generally socialised to be civil to each other but the relative anonymity of the internet leads people to speak to each other in a way they wouldn't dream of doing in person.
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Wow. We must be married to the same woman!
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I have a female friend that resigned from a company purely because there were no men on the team and she was tired of backstabbing and gossiping. In the interview for her new job, she specifically asked if there were men on the team before accepting the role.
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There are more women online than men. Probably not enough guys are pretending to be women to make much difference.
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The other 50% all come from realDonaldTrump.
Never seen Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders supporters have you? Well that's okay, when you listen to what the media tells you, you get garbage like this: "Women are suffering so much sexism on the internet." Which of course is refuted with the above study...
Then again in my 35+ years of life, women have always been the most vicious attackers. They'd rather use psychologically based attacks then hitting, but they're not above that either. Which easily shows up in police stats these days, and over the
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Gosh, I'm old enough to get that joke :-(