Why Did The Stars Wars and Star Trek Worlds Turn Out So Differently? (marginalrevolution.com) 359
HughPickens.com writes: In the Star Trek world there is virtual reality, personal replicators, powerful weapons, and, it seems, a very high standard of living for most of humanity, while in Star Wars there is widespread slavery, lots of people seem to live at subsistence, and eventually much of the galaxy falls under the Jedi Reign of Terror. Why the difference? Tyler Cowen writes about some of the factors differentiating the world of Star Wars from that of Star Trek: 1) The armed forces in Star Trek seem broadly representative of society. Compare Uhura, Chekhov, and Sulu to the Imperial Storm troopers. 2) Captains Kirk and Picard do not descend into true power madness, unlike various Sith leaders and corrupted Jedi Knights. 3) In Star Trek, any starship can lay waste to a planet, whereas in Star Wars there is a single, centralized Death Star and no way to oppose it, implying stronger checks and balances in the world of Star Trek. 4) Star Trek embraces egalitarianism, namely that all humans consider themselves part of the same broader species. There is no special group comparable to the Jedi or the Sith, with special powers in their blood. 5) Star Trek replicators are sufficiently powerful it seems slavery is highly inefficient in that world.
Good summary (Score:2)
Re: Good summary (Score:2)
Orion (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Orion (Score:2, Interesting)
This. Also Star Trek artificially separates various human traits into separate species. Like the Ferengi all being the "greedy merchant" types. Bajorans are all super religious. The list goes on. I think Star Trek is also a way to show how Communism was supposed to work. I.e. that everything everyone needs is available anybody can do what they like and still we'd not all just sit around and do drugs because we're bored. It all works because theres the replicator and warp drives and such.
While I would love t
Re: Orion (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You "Get" an apartment with a larger replicator, of course.
And, in general, your "greatest shortcoming" is endemic to all stories, from those around the communal campfires of our far ancestors, to today's novels: The "backstory" is a set of presuppositions, evident to the participants in the drama itself. To me, it is that pattern of unstated presuppositions that makes a story great: You have to suspend your own belief patterns of what happened prior to your own birth, and adopt a different pattern of pr
Re: (Score:2)
These are great questions in which I think we are starting to answer. here is a basic presumption I can answer from watching all the star trek series; /. will know asap ) We are starting something similar, universal allowance ( money given to you without strings attached ), Which I think is amaz
I think you are given the basic right to shelter, food, education. Then ( based on what I learned on STtNG ) you have the right to pursue other trades and crafts.
Now what I want to cite ( which I know someone here on
Re: (Score:2)
And still, everyone wants to live in Malibu. All 11 billion of them.
A very Trek-plausible solution is to tie dwellings not owned by a family and held through inheritance (which clearly is possible; the Picards prove that) to a job, and locate the job someplace nice.
Re: (Score:3)
This is touched on throughout the various series. Almost everything is publicly owned. If you want to be in charge of some stuff, you have to prove you deserve it. A number of characters in the Trek universe complain that Starfleet is stifling. There are colony worlds out on the frontier which aren't crowded. Presumably, it's hard to get a spot back on Earth unless people are impressed with you, and population pressure keeps people emigrating. The only way ISTR ever seeing anyone get a place on Earth is thr
Re: (Score:2)
This. Also Star Trek artificially separates various human traits into separate species.
Star Trek's vision of an alien is a human with a funny looking forehead. Star Wars vision of an alien varies quite a bit, more like mixed animal traits.
Re: (Score:2)
This. Also Star Trek artificially separates various human traits into separate species.
Star Trek's vision of an alien is a human with a funny looking forehead.
I've stated that fact many times. Usually to some college-age person who thinks the various Star Trek series are the high mark of TV culture.
Re: (Score:3)
The "Slave Girls" Actually run the syndicate.
Why I thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why I thought it was because one was science fiction and the other was science fantasy.
Would have been more interesting to do a comparison between two science fiction universes.
Re:Why I thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
This. One is about science and philosophy, the other is about sword-fighting space-wizards. Neither is bad, but like the parent said, they are comparing mandarins to pears.
Re:Why I thought... (Score:4, Informative)
TFA is hopeless confused. For example, I calls Star Fleet an "armed forces", but it's not a military organization. It borrows some military structure but it's not a navy, it's a peaceful diplomatic and exploration organization that also handles defence when needed. At most you could say it's something like Japan's Self Defence Forces, the Federation being an entirely pacifist organization.
Re: (Score:2)
TFA is confused, but for a different reason. There is plenty of slavery and conquest in Star Trek. Most other major species (Klingon, Romulan, Borg, Dominion, etc.) are based on conquest and dictatorship. The Federation was the US proxy in a world of huge communist blocks and smaller dictatorships.
In Star Wars, the speed allows direct continuous pacification of the entire galaxy. It fell from within, ala Hitler's Germany and other nominally free periods (ancient Greece and Rome) all of which gave up eme
Re: (Score:2)
You don't even need the prequels, BTW, to know that about Star Wars. They just flesh it out.
A New Hope opens with "The Emperor has just dissolved the Senate," recall.
Re: (Score:3)
TFA is hopeless confused. For example, I calls Star Fleet an "armed forces", but it's not a military organization.
Yes it is... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...
They have battleships (Enterprise), cruisers and destroyers (Voyager and Defiant), fighters, etc...
They are just a soft, pretty military that doesn't look scary, but the differences are minor...
Re: (Score:2)
Military rank structure, military weapons, military responses, etc.
How can anyone say the Starfleet isn't military?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It is probably that one is set in the past while the other is set in the future. Starwars reflects our history or a vision of it and star trek reflects a vision of what someone wants our future to become.
Re: (Score:2)
No. One is space opera and the other is fantasy. Neither is science fiction.
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's narrow-minded to not call them science fiction. A movie can be many things at the same time and there are science fiction elements in both.
Re: (Score:2)
When a franchise just asks you to suspend disbelief at every turn, it's fantasy. Lazy fantasy.
Science fiction asks you to suspend disbelief about a few things, then constructs consistent stories in that world.
Space opera's are just adventure stories with special effects.
Close... (Score:2)
It's because Lucas is a bigger hack writer who took bits from all over the place without giving it more consideration than "cause it's cool and I like it".
When he finally got around to try to consolidate all that stuff and make it make sense - we got midichlorians.
All Lucas knew was what it was supposed to be LIKE.
I.e. Like 1920s pulp serials, like Kurosawa's samurai movies, like WW2 dogfights, like the stuff Joseph Campbell wrote, like Buddhism...
Roddenberry on the other hand had strict guidelines for the [myzen.co.uk]
Re: (Score:2)
Star Trek is...
...a sociological utopia where poverty is eradicated.
...multiple cultures, alien and human with different views on what's best.
...solving problems in unorthodox ways.
Star Wars is...
...a fight between good and bad.
...a fight between chaos and order.
...a fight between multiculturalism and monoculturalism.
Both universes have their place and as a viewer I can appreciate both. In Star Trek it's rarely a black and white situation that's encountered.
Re: (Score:2)
Star Trek is... ...a sociological utopia where poverty is eradicated.
except for all the episodes where poverty is featured.
and they all try to kill or enslave their inferiors.
Wait, when was talking through your differences considered unorthodox?
Star Wars is... ...a fight between good and bad.
With the stereotypical 'white is good, black is bad'.
Where order is totalitarianism that makes chaos look pleasant in comparison.
At least the aliens look alien.
Both universes have their place and as a viewer I can appreciate both.
Star Wars is my favorite movie, and the original Star Trek is among my favorite TV shows.
In Star Trek it's rarely a black and white situation that's encountered.
I really wish you hadn't put it in those terms [nexusroute.co.uk].
The differences are the effect, not the cause. (Score:5, Insightful)
Episodes of Star Trek were quite often, if not always, morality tales, and a relatively peaceful, morally advanced society provided a good backdrop for those tales. Star Wars was a tale of high adventure, and those sorts of stories are best served by heroes dealing with unseemly characters and places, by power-mad leaders, and by huge imbalances of power.
Re: (Score:2)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
-- Arthur C. Clarke
The actual answer is simpler (Score:5, Insightful)
The writer(s) made it so.
The Q (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no special group comparable to the Jedi or the Sith, with special powers in their blood.
What about the Q?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
What about the Q?
They're NPCs, who exist to move the plot along. They have special rules that prevent them from interfering overmuch, unless it's important to the plot.
Re: (Score:2)
Plot complications...the writers needed a way to tie up all the lose ends in the last 10 minutes of each episode. Take the 'tie it up' crap out of the ST universe and it makes slightly more sense.
Re: (Score:2)
or that 1 being that destroyed an entire civilization because they killed his human wife.
putting the cart before the horse (Score:3)
very different creators (Score:5, Insightful)
Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas have very different world views.
different creators different times (Score:2)
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's pretty simple, because they both came from the imagination of two different people.
Gene Roddenberry imagined what he thought was as close to the most perfect universe as could possibly exsist. In the case of TOS, he also tried to use fictional races and themes to make people think about how silly we are as a species too. Basically to make its viewers think about being better people.
George Lucas created a universe out of themes from various genres he probaby enjoyed as a child. He wanted to create a universe full of awe and spectacle. The story was the framework for presenting it. George was more artistic and wanted people to leave the theater thinking, "wow, that was cool".
There's nothing wrong with either, they are just different. And both franchise had their ups and downs. The current Star Trek movies have been more about being shiny than they were in the past. And I don't think I need to say much about the prequel Star Wars trilogy.
Compare Uhura, Chekhov, and Sulu to Stormtroopers (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Aren't stormtroopers clones in the later versions of the mythos? Not sure, I don't think I stayed awake through any but the first 3.
Re: (Score:2)
According to Wookipedia, You've got your clone troopers, [wikia.com] (clones of Jango Fett), you've got your Imperial Stormtroopers [wikia.com] (described as "the ultimate evolution of clone troopers") , and you've got your First Order Stormtroopers. [slashdot.org]
Imperial Stormtroopers were originally clone troopers, but their accelerated aging process caused their physical skills and abilities to deteriorate so they were replaced by non-clone volunteers and conscripts.
First Order Stormtroopers composed the army of the junta that arose out
Re: (Score:2)
...weird, slashdot futzed up that link to first order stormtroopers.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_(First_Order)
Re: (Score:2)
No, they're conscripted childen stolen from their parents.
I'll take a shot at this (Score:3)
Star Trek is political fantasy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
How is the leadership of the Federation selected?
I seem to recall that it is a democracy, somewhat like the European Union where member planets send representatives. It's not clear if they representatives elect a leader or if that is by a popular vote... Or it could even be a mix of the two, as some races might not practice that kind of democracy for various reasons.
Star Fleet leadership is presumably appointed, much like most current militaries, although it's not a military organization. It serves the elected government, anyway.
Why doesn't a Ferengi of questionable character ever become the leader and make himself a dictator?
Because they are not membe
Re: (Score:2)
A large happy prosperous communist society?
Well, most of the best places to live in the world are socialist. Sweden and other northern European countries are very far to the left of the US and yet have a better quality of life, less poverty and more happiness. It seems to be the way the human race is heading as most societies become more socialist as they develop.
Scandivia _had_ more happiness until it was overrun by Klingons. You know, a warrior race that believes the greatest honor is in losing your life while battling the enemy, whose most holy figure is a warrior, whose weapon of choice is the sword, and whose favorite tactic is attacking from ambush, without warning.
Re: (Score:2)
There are Star Trek episodes that deal with corruption in the federation, and even with martial law and a dictator plotting to take control of the federation (DS9: Paradise Lost).
Re: (Score:2)
If that isn't limited to Star Fleet, then how are people's human instincts suppressed? Is it indoctrination when they're children? Drugs? Medical procedures? Again Roddenberry just wishes for it and it's there! Of course as a work of fiction, that's what we expect.
I think a lot of what you call "human instincts" are profoundly shaped by society around you. Yes, people have natural urges, and many of them can be self-destructive or even destructive to an idealistic society if not "kept in check." But social mores can be powerful.
Yes, we all recognize that "human" traits like lust and envy and greed have always been around, but the kinds of behavior we view as acceptable in the pursuit of them have changed radically over time. Look back at the murder and violent c
Re: (Score:3)
The next step after verbal or tacit debts to your neighbors was recorded debt, i.e. you go to see a Sumerian king or high level official to get it written, as the stakes (10 bushels of wheat, oxen etc.) are bigger and law enforcement will be useful. That still exists, if today there exists a debt relationship between two private individuals they may go see an attorney and make it acknowledged that Alice owes $1000 to Bob.
This would be the origin of money. Later, money (as a simple treasure, stash of metals)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe that will result in disaster the likes of which would strain the imagination... but maybe not.
Whatever the outcome, I'm p
Physically vulnerable worlds (Score:2)
I always tend to think that the levels of energy contained in a single seat spaceplane with hyperdrive or a teleporter are huge enough that everyone is carrying around machines that could blow up like a dinosaur-killing meteorite, if the energy were to be "accidentally" released.
The phaser ray even has interesting properties, in that in disintegration mode it can make an alien vanish in a close quarters, enclosed space. So, where it did go? Perhaps it turned into transparent or invisible matter, but it did
You can't (Score:2)
You can't compare them. Uhura, Chekhov, and Sulu are officers and Storm troopers are foot solders. You have to compare TOS Red shirts with Storm troopers. They both die like flies and they both have terrible aim.
Re: (Score:2)
RIP Star Trek, You will be missed.
And Star Wars, Disney is flogging it to death. Time for some new _sci _fi_ universes - preferably ones that are creative commons from the outset so some corp like paramount can't use it's grubby influence to limit the possibilities in the stories.
Re: (Score:2)
RIP Star Trek, You will be missed.
And Star Wars, Disney is flogging it to death. Time for some new _sci _fi_ universes - preferably ones that are creative commons from the outset so some corp like paramount can't use it's grubby influence to limit the possibilities in the stories.
You might be interested in Orion's Arm [wikipedia.org]. A collaboratively developed hard SF universe originally heavily based on Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep, it has since branched out, picking up elements of Ian M. Banks' Culture universe and David Brin's Uplift Universe, plus generated new material. Two short story collections have been formally published in paper. Unfortunately, the main website [orionsarm.com] is broken at the moment. Interest in the project has been waning for some time. Apparently it has reached a fairly
Re: (Score:2)
Red shirts don't have terrible aim. They usually hit their target, then discover their target isn't damaged by phasers, and then angry target vaporizes them.
All we see are Federation propaganda films! (Score:2)
Remember: All we see are the myriad propaganda films that paint the Federation in the best possible light. We never see the vast slave gulags back in the Federation hinterland. "Look, our society is perfect! No one is ever jelous, enraged, power-hungry, greedy, or ambitious! Starship Captains never abuse their positions to accumulate vast wealth!"
It's set in a magic fantasy world where communism works and people never have personal conflicts with each other. It's Potemkin Villages all the way down...
Star Wa
Re: (Score:3)
Remember: All we see are the myriad propaganda films that paint the Federation in the best possible light. We never see the vast slave gulags back in the Federation hinterland.
There are no such slave gulags because the Federation enjoys cheap energy. There is a sleazy underbelly, though, which we see bits of in the least-popular series, Enterprise.
Special powers? (Score:2)
The Jedi and the Sith don't have any special powers in their blood. Midichlorians, you say? Sorry I can't hear you, LA LA LA LA LA LA LA...
swords and sorcery (Score:3)
Star Wars is fantasy, with princesses and emperors and weapons mimicking swords. Star Trek is science fiction. That is the difference.
You might as well ask why the world of The Wizard of Oz turned out differently than the world of Joe Haldeman's Forever War.
A long time ago vs. a long time hence... (Score:2)
...in a galaxy far far away vs. in our galaxy.
Thank you. This. (Score:2)
Stuff that matters (Score:2)
Next up: Who's gonna win the fight, Green Lantern or The Flash?
Really, /.? Really?
because star wars is swords and sorcery fantasy (Score:3)
not an attempt at sci-fi.
i mean if you want to accuse star trek of being pulpy or unrealistic or whatever, all i can do in defense is shrug my shoulders, but star wars wasn't even remotely interested in the future of humanity. it just wants to tell a story about wizards and knights and royal family lineage ... in space.
Re: (Score:2)
addressing the article, it's pretty ridiculous to pretend the stories ended up the way they did because of the properties of the tech in those worlds. the truth is obviously the opposite -- the tech of each franchise was engineered to fit the narrative purposes of the story. this is such an obvious point i can't believe i'm even spelling it out.
Re: (Score:2)
Star wars would have been better if it was a court drama? A western? A soap opera?
I'm not defending Star Wars, but Trek was no more Science fiction then Wars. There were maybe 2 episodes of Trek that qualify as Science Fiction.
Resources it's all about resources (Score:5, Interesting)
Star Trek if you notices they are not concerned about power in the ability to do work. Transporters and their replicator brethren make it practical to produce nearly anything at will coupled with abundant energy. If you notice the big driving issue for strife is expansion space for people to spread out.
Star Wars is a much more populated place with scarce resources.
Both exist in the real world (Score:3)
While the Utopian vision of Star Trek doesn't actually exist, there are many nations where people have good, stable lives, and where the government makes an attempt to do the best for the people. There are also places where tyrants reign, where bribes are normal, and the biggest bully wins. The difference is all in what lens you look through to see the world, and where you live.
Re: (Score:2)
There are also places where tyrants reign, where bribes are normal, and the biggest bully wins.
TRUMP 2016
(...Okay, okay, both major party candidates are locked into the "bribes are normal" idea... and the U.S. seems to be heading down that inevitable Platonic path [wikipedia.org] from democracy to tyranny. But Trump does seem to be running for the "biggest bully" award.)
Another factor (Score:3)
Simple economics (Score:2)
Star Wars is a more realistic and traditional economy, albeit a very large one. Hence, there's an aristocracy, a middle class, a lower class, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Entirely different fiction genres (Score:2)
Starwars as anyone fucking knows is space fantasy. So its like the lord of the rings in space. Its elves, fairies, wizards, etc in space. You have a dark lord. You have a quest. There is some epic struggle between good and evil.
Star Trek whilst hardly being hard science fiction with technology that is viable in actual science... STILL takes from the cultural tradition of science fiction. Its about exploration... it has a flavor of the golden age of American science fiction in that its hopeful... there are b
Depends on if I ou believe the unified star theory (Score:2)
You see one happened a long. long time ago and the other happened in Gene Roddenbarry's fantasy land where people don't go out of there way to accentuate their differences to get control of resources. Both in this universe.
Err, because they're different?-also headline typo (Score:3)
Why the difference?
Because they are two different works of fiction written by two different (groups of) people telling two completely different bunches of stories.
Why the hell would you expect them not to be different?
Next up: why are Canada and North Korea so different? Isn't that weird?
By the way it's "Star Wars", not "Stars Wars". Sheesh.
Re:Is this a trick question? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Long before the phrases "political correctness" and "social justice warrior" existed, Gene Roddenberry created those exact concepts. The main characters of Star Trek reflect Roddenberry's idea of a perfect, politically correct world:
Sulu is the token Asian
Spock is the token alien
Uhura is a two-for-one deal, black and female
And Chekov, the token Russian, who constantly brags about the superiority of Russia, because the original series was written at the height of the U.S.-Russia cold war.
But then you have t
Re:IT took me years to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
You missed by a bit...
Obviously Roddenberry purposefully populated his cast with a multi-racial/ethnic cast, but there is much more complex thinking going on, mostly relating to the politics, issues and attitudes of the TOS era:
Sulu isn't a 'token Asian' he is not by coincidence, Japanese. Just 20 years after WW2 it was all much more fresh in peoples minds: Pearl Harbor, Rape of Nanking Internment of Japanese American Citizens etc. This is Roddenberry addressing all that head on.
Uhura isn't a token Black Female either, she is an Officer. Back in the early mid 60's these types of characters didn't exist. The country was having race riots, the cities were burning. Much worse than Baltimore or Fergison today. Add these facts with the fact that Roddenberry staged the first interracial kiss ever shown on TV, and it becomes more clear she isn't there as a token. You cheapen her accomplishment and influence by labeling it token before there were even tokens.
And yes Chekov is a nod to the cold war mindset. Just a couple years after the Cuban missile crisis where we REALLY did almost blow our selves up. The cold war was a real thing and on peoples minds. His presence on the bridge was a loud statement. Also Chekov is always wrong in his Russian superiority, but his character is saying: there is still Russia after the Soviet Union, in the unified post racial/nationalist earth of the future, don't worry, we wont shed our unique cultures/histories.
The Klingons are not the 'violent, savage blacks' they are actually rather articulate in TOS and represent the Russians. the Romulans were the Chinese (this is before Nixon went to China, it was a secretive closed society, nothing like now). Also its easy to forget that even though they were both communist party oligarchies they were also opposed to each other, just like the show.
What all this really was: a vehicle for discussing the tensions, issues, and politics of the day, some of which were too taboo to be straight forward about on the TV of the day. Which itself was a simplistic 42 minutes of a very repressed medium.
This isn't to say star trek TOS had no flaws, especially regarding women: no women Captains in TOS (except the aliens) Women's 'Uniforms' were really just miniskirts. etc.
Overall you missed the original intent of these characters and the real world that inspired them by a Kilometer.
Re: (Score:2)
And that is why the series turned out differently. The authors had different goals.
You can't really say that either society would possibly work that way, too much is not revealed. (Hidden is wrong, when it probably wasn't even thought of.) And you can't say how to get from here to there. In either case.
Don't take fiction as a direct map of reality, it's a story composed to be dramatic, and entertaining, as well as to push the goals of the author. None of that requires an realism, except that drama does
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, that's not how a social justice warrior world would work.
They don't seek to make a "politically correct world", but a world where everyone is forced to be equal and repay for what your ethnical group did in the past etc etc etc, to not mention always defining people into "oppressors" and "oppressed".
It would be a insane world where people would be monitored 24/7 to stop any kind of oppression, and you would need to pray for your ethnical group to not be defined as "oppressors" that week, or well,
Religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Star Wars universe is dominated by religious belief and power, at least by those at the top. The Star Trek universe is diverse but most of our view is through the dominant power of the Federation, which is a pluralistic, tolerant, and non-secular.
This tells the story. The Federation is successful because it's guiding philosophy is humanism, not worship of Midi-chlorians.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Religion (Score:4, Insightful)
Star Wars universe is dominated by religious belief and power, at least by those at the top. The Star Trek universe is diverse but most of our view is through the dominant power of the Federation, which is a pluralistic, tolerant, and non-secular.
Put another way: Star Wars is the post Donald Trump universe, Star Trek is the post Bernie Sanders universe. One of those is better for the top 1%, the other for the remaining 99%. [ Not trolling, just making an overly broad generalization as food for thought. ]
Re:Pluralistic and guided by Humanism? (Score:4, Insightful)
In the Federation, the inferior (non-Human) races do not for the most part enjoy all the technological advances Humans do; and are massively under-represented in the high-ranking positions in the military.
That's what happens when you're shooting a series with a limited SFX and makeup budget. ;)
Re:IT took me years to learn (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: IT took me years to learn (Score:3, Insightful)
there is a very important distinction between a rebel and a terrorist to be made. George Washington et al never resorted to terrorising attacks on soft targets. Terrorists are more like ineffective rebels that then resort to horrible acts of violence on women and children because they
a) they are a bunch of faggots
b) they cant actually fight directly and win.
Re: (Score:2)
It was the redcoats that made war on women and children. Which they can't really be blamed for, it was how they were trained.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
That's some nice 20/20 hindsight, but you're neglecting the impact of technology on warfare. When Washington fought, the terrorism that their technology supported was part of routine military operation - burning fields, looting, killing women and children indiscriminately, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Killing women and children indiscriminately isn't something you do when you're on a tight budget and you need to hand-craft every bullet. Except perhaps by starting fires and then shooting anyone who tries to get out.
Re: (Score:3)
But they are!
After they won. Until then, they were "rebels". Whether you're a rebel, terrorist or freedom fighter mainly depends on the outcome of the war, not so much on your actions.
Re:IT took me years to learn (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny, but also pertinent -- perspective matters. While in a horrible disciplinary/authoritarian environment and despite being assholes, the empire's soldiers were well fed, well equipped, and probably had holodecks, where conditions were depicted somewhat worse on rogue Klingon vessels opposed to the federation, or on prison planets in ST. Just, less time was spent in those settings in ST. Not to say that the OP does not have a point nonetheless, but life could quite possibly have been more horrible for the larger population in ST because the larger population would have been civilizations that were pre-lightspeed and thus each suffering from their own private wars and atrocity, or not in federation space where some other large interstellar power was enslaving them.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:IT took me years to learn (Score:4, Insightful)
It's like dropping a couple of nuclear bombs on cities: it's okay if you're doing it to end the war and prevent a potentially much larger number of deaths. By blowing up Alderaan, the Empire hoped to end the bloody rebellion once and for all and thus save innumerable innocent lives that would've been lost if the rebellion were allowed to expand to an all-out galactic civil war.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, Democrats are more like the Jedi. Claiming that they have to impose their view of the world on everyone for "the greater good for everyone". Sith are more akin to Republicans. Might makes right, and if you want a share of the cake, all you have to do is have the power to get some.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, exactly. The Prime Directive is a principle that sounds like a high moral principle, but in reality it is absurd at best, and evil at worst. In the real world, no one thinks we should stand idly by while a bully nation invades its neighbors, or when a nation faces a severe disaster. And yes, Star Trek was always really about world politics.
Re:Prime Directive (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the fallout from all our meddling in other countries' affairs (particularly the middle east), the prime directive is looking better and better every day.
The same reasoning was given for the prime directives several times in TNG -- the federation encountered several another species that weren't technologically as advanced, they interfered, and everyone was the worse for it.
Re: (Score:2)
You might also notice that planets have to apply to become part of the federation and the criteria requires them to have a certain level of technology, single world government, and be willing to abide by the overall rules of the federation and that the planets similar to those in the star wars universe would be denied access they could almost exist in the same universe... the federation and those outside the federation. There are plenty of stories lines in the star trek universe that show how outside of fed
Re: (Score:2)
Many episodes of Star Trek have mystical or supernatural elements. From psychics to telekenetics, Vulcan mind meld to on-demand time travel.
Or has the original Star Trek series been expunged from the official record?