Google Wi-Fi Kiosks in New York Promise No Privacy, 'Can Collect Anything'

Here's the thing about those wi-fi kiosks replacing New York City's public payphones. They're owned by Google/Alphabet company Sidewalk Labs, they're covered with ads, and if you read the privacy policy on its web site, "it's not that one." An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes an article from the Observer: Columbia professor Benjamin Read got a big laugh at this weekend's Hackers on Planet Earth XI conference in Manhattan when he pointed out that the privacy policy on LinkNYC's website only applies to the website itself, not to the actual network of kiosks.
The web page points out that it has two separate privacy policies in an easily-missed section near the top, and for their real-world kiosks, "They essentially have a privacy policy that says, 'we can collect anything and do anything' and that sets the outer bound'," says New York Civil Liberties Union attorney Mariko Hirose.

The Observer reports that the policy "promises not to use facial recognition... however, nothing stops the company from retracting that guarantee. In fact, Hirose said that she's been told by the company that the kiosk's cameras haven't even been turned on yet, but it is also under no obligation to tell the public when the cameras go live." The article concludes that in general the public's sole line of defense is popular outrage, and that privacy policies "have been constructed primarily to guard companies against liability and discourage users from reading closely."

Re:

[Joce640k]

"The article concludes that in general the public's sole line of defense is popular outrage"

...and spray paint.

Re:

[93 Escort Wagon]

And let's be clear - these are not some sort of pre-existing city-controlled cameras that were there when the location was a pay phone - Google/Alphabet is the one installing the cameras.

I had to go check that out because I thought there was a possibility the city was responsible for the cameras... but nope.

I am curious if, at some point over the last decade, either Larry or Sergei took a marker and drew an X through the "n't" part on some old piece of paper where Marissa had originally written "Don't Be E

This'll Be Great

[RobotRunAmok]

These'll be lapped up by the same Google-worshipping hipsters that we used to throw out of bars for wearing Google Glass. Unfortunately for Google -- and perhaps NYC, depending upon how they're used -- whatever kind of stats these things collect will really be skewed to the shallower end of the gene pool...

Re:

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

That was Google. This is "Alphabet". New company, "new" morals!

Re:

[dryeo]

Seems to happen to most companies when they go public.

Re:

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Why are there cameras on public Wi-Fi hot spots?

To increase the reach of the surveillance network, of course. If you don't think those things will be used by the police/government to find and/or track people then you're kidding yourself.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Because a surveillance state is a monster that can never be satiated.

Re:

[ravenshrike]

Because if some dumb bastard decides to make murder/terrorist threats using google's booth they'll be able to pull up their picture and give it to the cops.

Re:

[Mats Svensson]

Also, if some dumb bastard decides to slander president Trumps dick-size using google's booth they'll be able to pull up their picture and give it to the cops.

Re:

[AutodidactLabrat]

More importantly, if some dumb bastard sends a top secret file about the murder of known reporters to some other reporter so he can help Americans fight back, they can send the picture, home address and where his kids go to school to the cops.
Who will do what it takes to shut down any flow of information DOWN to the masses

Re:

[Swave An deBwoner]

I'm guessing that they may be there to allow "picturephone" type phone calls in the future.

Also, there's a dedicated "911" button and a photo of the caller can sometimes help (I'm thinking of the times that EMS pulled up and asked if I called them because it wasn't obvious where the sick person was and they needed to locate them).

Re:

[Calydor]

Legal CYA. When someone gets angry they can shrug and point out the policy was on full display in the basement, beyond the broken stairs, in the locked room with a cupboard reading "Beware of leopard!"

Re:

[michelcolman]

"There's no point in acting surprised about it. I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest..."

VPN

[NotInHere]

as long as VPNs aren't banned, it shouldn't be an issue, should it? Who trusts public WiFi anyway, anybody could spy on it.

Re:VPN

[ZorinLynx]

A regular public WiFi, that you can connect to without installing profiles, etc... is indeed unencrypted. But most services that matter these days use SSL so it's not an issue.

But if you have to install a profile, it can do things like set proxies, install SSL client certificates and so on. It can spy on you VERY deeply. You're actually better off connecting to unencrypted open WiFi than one of these.

Re:

[NotInHere]

Yeah if you have to install an app or a profile or whatever it is of no real use. Its in fact probably even worse as those "public" WiFi stations where you first need an account before you can use it.

Re:

[Sloppy]

Very serious question; I really don't understand. What does "install a profile" mean? I have never heard of this.

I went to use one of these...

[ZorinLynx]

I went to use one of these and it wanted to install an iOS configuration profile on my phone.

These profiles can configure your phone on a fairly deep level, doing things like adding proxies, restricting functionality, and so on.

I hit cancel and just continued to use my data plan. Screw that.

Re:

[ZorinLynx]

Oh, I should also mention that configuration profiles can install SSL certificates too. Gee, that can't be abused at all, can it? :)

Re:

[Swave An deBwoner]

Why would you care if a homeless person is sitting at the thing if you want to connect via wifi?

What sort of thought process

[RightwingNutjob]

allows a human being to conclude that bits they transmit in the clear from their devices while physically out on the public sidewalk using a protocol that by design and by physical necessity allows and requires uniquely identifying the transmission source...should somehow be private?

Get over it tinfoil hatters, things that happen in public are public for all to see. If you want complete privacy, then conduct your business behind closed doors, but make sure you get some trusted body doubles to walk around e

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

So shall we put one in front of your house and point the ir camera and backscatter xray at your front door or bedroom window? The street in front of out house is a public place after all...

Re:

[rtb61]

Nah, bugger that. Don't like the invasion of privacy, the strive to change the law so that more of your privacy is respected as it should be. Wont happen overnight but keep pushing at it and as the years go by, so we will regain our privacy and companies will have to delete what they have or face massive fines. Get over corporate douche bags, we will get our privacy back and we will legally invade your data centres to ensure you respect that, just a matter of time, a whole bunch of fines and even a few cust

Is anybody surprised by this

[TuballoyThunder]

Alphabet/Google/whatever they are called is a for-profit business. This endeavor has to (roughly) do one ore more of the following:

• Generate a profit,
• Enable other activities to generate profit (e.g. data collection on you), or
• Be booked as an advertising expense.

Anything else would violate their fiduciary responsibilities.

Repeat after me: Do not plug into random USB ports or connect to random WiFi hot spots unless you are comfortable with their security practices and business model.

You need to establish an expectation of privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys need to establish a reasonable expectation of privacy even in public or this is only a small glimpse of the coming total surveillance society. It is not reasonable to expect that nobody will take your picture. It is reasonable to expect that you won't be tracked everywhere you go. If you don't want never sleeping, never forgetting computer systems to have eyes everywhere, establish a legal right against surveillance. Surveillance is not the same as being seen in public.

One of these was outside a Starbucks

[Streetlight]

Some time ago I saw a picture in a news post where one of these Wi-Fi kiosks was being installed in front of a Starbucks entry door. Hmmm... Seems like you could just go inside the Starbucks and activate the Wi-Fi there for free without buying anything. You could also sit down while doing your web surfing. Better, too, during inclement weather. Not sure about NYC, but in my medium size city there's a Starbucks within walking distance of every other Starbucks.

you get what you pay for

[ooloorie]

If you want privacy, pay for it. Don't complain that the free access you're getting is used for marketing.

Re:

[ooloorie]

This is not about the free wifi, it is about a private company monitoring public and private spaces with cameras (ir? and even backscatter xray for all we know...) with no regulatory oversight. This is the problem.

No regulatory oversight? LinkNYC is run according to NYC government rules, and the TOS that companies conform to whatever the NYC government allows them.

Furthermore, private companies, like everybody else, have a right to monitor public spaces, as well as private spaces that are ordinarily visible

Business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's business model is providing free services in exchange of collecting personal data.

It's very simple really, if you don't like it, like me, don't use their service.

Re:

[Swave An deBwoner]

I take it that you are not from Georgia.

http://time.com/4422772/upskirt-photos-harassment [time.com]

Dark patterns

[John Allsup]

There is a site called Dark Patterns, mentioned by our friends at Ars, detailing this kind of 'small print designed for people to miss'. Understandable, but wrong.

no privacy?

[FudRucker]

then about all it is good for is googling some benign information and trolling 4chan

Hey, it's public place

[fustakrakich]

We can always use this if anybody complains about us recording the cops, with a microphone and all. Make this a two way street, and it becomes a much smaller issue. *No privacy for me, no privacy for thee* Hope you like apples...

Just Don't Use Them

[wasteoid]

If no one uses them, that will send the right message.

Put Super Glue on the Camera lenses

[Nyder]

Since the camera's are not currently off, put superglue on the camera lens. It will block it from taking clear pictures and be hard a fuck to take off. And since they don't have the camera's on yet, they won't know who did it.

Sometimes you have to take your privacy back from those you who want to abuse it.

So ..

[jon3k]

Google Wi-Fi Kiosks in New York Promise No Privacy, 'Can Collect Anything'

So basically what you should assume is happening at every WiFi hotspot?

Never saw that coming...

[Lord Flipper]

/s

VIDEO + correction

[ISOC-NY]

VIDEO of the HOPE XI talk is at https://livestream.com/interne... [livestream.com] (where you will notice that "Professor Read" is in fact Benjamin Dean, Fellow for Cyber-security and Internet Governance at Columbia SIPA. )