Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
United States The Courts Transportation

Kentucky's Shotgun 'Drone Slayer' Gets Sued Again (yahoo.com) 307

"Technology has surpassed the law..." argues a Kentucky man who fired a shotgun at a drone last year. An anonymous Slashdot reader reports: The drone's owner has now filed for damages in Federal Court over the loss of his $1,800 drone, arguing that the shotgun blast was unjustified because his drone wasn't actually trespassing or invading anyone's privacy. The defendant -- who has dubbed himself 'the Drone Slayer' -- said the aerial vehicle was over his garden and his daughter, and the verdict could ultimately set a new precedent in U.S. law: who owns the air?

"Operators need to know where they can fly," argued the drone pilot's lawyer, "and owners must know when they can reasonably expect privacy and be free of prying eyes." He estimates a drone is shot from he skies about once a month, and "What happens typically is that law enforcement doesn't know what to do and civil suits are uncommon as most people don't want to get involved due to the costs."

The Drone Slayer was originally charged with felony counts of wanton endangerment and criminal mischief. But all of those charges were dismissed in October when a district judge ruled he "had a right to shoot at the aircraft."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Kentucky's Shotgun 'Drone Slayer' Gets Sued Again

Comments Filter:
  • Rule of thumb (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 25, 2016 @06:48AM (#52956647)

    How about if the drone is vertically close enough to your private property that you CAN succesfully shoot it, then its too close and doing so is allowed. (Excluding sniper rifles)

    • I'd go with something like: If the drone flew over private property without permission before, there's a presumption that it will fly over your property whenever it heads in the direction of your property. The property in the first case doesn't have to be your own -- it could belong to a neighbor who told you they hate drones and would never allow overflight.

      • by hey! ( 33014 )

        That rule of thumb seems excessively restrictive to drones. What if the drone pilot has permission to fly over your neighbor's property?

        • Then my rule of thumb doesn't apply to the drone flying over that neighbor's property.

        • Then the neighbour obviously knows about the fact that he gave permission and most likely would restrain himself from shooting down the drone ...

      • Brings up an interesting question - if you own a piece of property, do you own the airspace above it? If so, how much? Right up to the ionosphere?
        • Re: Rule of thumb (Score:4, Insightful)

          by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @12:34PM (#52958017)

          if you own a piece of property, do you own the airspace above it?

          The FAA allows aircraft to fly over your property without your permission as long as they maintain a minimum altitude. Over congested areas, I think the minimum is 1000 ft (300m) above ground level.

    • by Pascoea ( 968200 )
      So I can sit at my property line and shoot at drones in the park next to my house? Yeah, there may be a few holes in your logic. I mean, most good bird hunters could pick off a drone at 50+ yards.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Drone operators need to be very careful. Shotguns work on people, too.

        Drone shooters need to be very careful. Shotguns (and other nasty surprises) can be attached to drones, too.

        I'm a staunch 2nd Amendment/private firearm ownership and castle doctrine believer, but can't we take a damned breath and give laws and regulations a chance to catch up before shooting at shit that poses no serious direct threat of personal harm?

        Look, I get there may be some cases where discharging a firearm against a drone might be justified, but holy crap! People act like they're ready to set emplac

    • This article is about a proposed drone operation law in California. The law is poorly written, but the author of the article has, what I think, is a good compromise. He suggests that drones should be able to operate at between 350 and 500 feet over private property. Anything below 350 feet, without authorization, is fair game for the shotgun crowd. The graphic depicting this is at the bottom of the article.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/gr... [forbes.com]

    • It depends on the local ordinances. Several jurisdictions (usually ones where lots of celebrities live) have made it illegal to deliberately peer over high fences or vegetation added for the purpose of privacy. These laws were made to thwart paparazzi who would get onto ladders or helicopters to shoot photos of people on private property. In that case, flying a drone over your own property could be considered illegal if it were for the purpose of peering over the privacy barrier.
    • Yeah I wouldn't worry about this - a court already found that "[the shooter[ had a right to shoot at the drone". how is the drone operator going to interpret the previous ruling? That the shooter can shoot at, but he must miss?
  • Slime-balls (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Sunday September 25, 2016 @06:52AM (#52956653)

    "and owners must know when they can reasonably expect privacy and be free of prying eyes."

    Lawyer acts like he's doing a fucking public service. What a crusader for truth and justice. How about - AT ALL TIMES when I'm home, fucker. Hah, it's not like he cares, he's getting paid either way.

    • by paiute ( 550198 )

      AT ALL TIMES

      I think it is going to become an airspace issue. A small drone hovering over my house? I can see a reasonable right to destroy something that low. A jet flying over my property at FAA allowed height to land at the airport? I don't think I will get permission to shoot at that.

      • This has already been well established. The air above your house is NOT yours, beyond the height you can use. In one case, a judge settled on 83 feet. Somebody flying his little quadcopter by at 200 feet isn't in "your" airspace at all, hovering or not.
        • I believe this described the tacit limit of your property rights as "within shotgun range."
          Repeating my statement from From Tuesday October 27, 2015 [slashdot.org]

        • This has already been well established. The air above your house is NOT yours, beyond the height you can use. In one case, a judge settled on 83 feet. Somebody flying his little quadcopter by at 200 feet isn't in "your" airspace at all, hovering or not.

          If I can fly my drone up to 400 feet above my house, then I am making use of that airspace, which makes that MY airspace according to your, and the court's reasoning.

  • Yup (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 25, 2016 @06:55AM (#52956661)

    I'm with the man shooting the drones. Fuck off outside of the city with that shit or into a park. Anyone can say they aren't spying with their drones, including those who spy; and drones are becoming more and more dangerous as cartels and gangs are starting to use them.
    You didn't see me running an RC car and my chopper all over the fucking city when i was a kid, i had the decency to keep that shit in-house, in the garden, or in a park.

  • by burtosis ( 1124179 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @06:58AM (#52956667)
    I'm not sure how you can argue it was not invading privacy when it was downed with a shotgun. The maximum effective range is around 75 yards and you can pretty much shoot at people 300 yards away and pose no danger (do not do this obviously). If the wreckage was examined you could know roughly how close it was to the shotgun without resorting to any telemetry from the drone captured prior to it being downed.

    While the law may be somewhat incomplete, you are an asshole if you fly a drone close people or their dwelling on their property. Get permission from the property owner first, it seems to be the ease of use of drones and the entitled attitudes some few people have ruined it for everyone and make new laws necessary.
    • I think these people are more than just assholes. Annoying people and their children with shitty tech gadgets in their own house and garden should be a felony. If your own house and garden suddenly become public places where your asshole neighbor can film you and your children, then the dystopian future has really arrived. I mean, people work really hard to get their own house and garden (I wish I could afford one). Why do they do that? To have their own house and garden where they can expect the little pri
      • TL;DR version: The "dystopian future has really arrived" because the US Supreme court disagrees with you. [justia.com]

        your own house and garden suddenly become public places where your asshole neighbor can film you and your children

        It's not happening suddenly. It happened twenty years ago.

        Annoying people is sometimes illegal, sometimes not, but the law doesn't (and shouldn't) consider using "shitty tech gadgets" any worse than lawnmowers, drums, or a ladder. At the same time, the US has strong legal protection for people who want to take pictures, videos or otherwise gather information. You can't make it generally illegal do thos

        • Depends on where you ae. Here it's not. You can't even sit in your car across the street from your own house to spy on whether your spouse is cheating on you - and for that all you have to see is who enters or leaves the house, not what goes on inside.

          We also put restraints on private investigators so that they are no longer allowed to spy on people either.

      • Annoying someone should be a felony. Glad you're not in charge of making the laws.
    • by Pascoea ( 968200 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @09:24AM (#52957061)

      I fly in my back yard all of time time. I'm well within shotgun range of 4 neighbors. Does that mean I'm automatically an asshole and automatically trying to get a peek at my neighbors daughters? Or is the possibility that I'm learning how to fly, in MY backyard, during reasonable hours? Why should I need to go get permission from my neighbor to fly a quad in my back yard?

      What's wrong with the criminal process as it is today? If the neighbor thinks I am taking pictures of his daughter (whether from a quad, or from my deck using a camera with a nice zoom on it) he can call the police, and they can do their job. If I'm disturbing their peace (by flying my quad, using a chainsaw, or playing loud music) there are legal avenues for that too.

      None of these situations need to involve shotguns or willful destruction of property. People taking the law into their hands is never a good thing.

      • by I'm New Around Here ( 1154723 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @11:59AM (#52957809)

        If you're flying it over your own property, you probably are standing there in your backyard. Your neighbor probably saw you in your backyard. Your neighbor probably knows you have a toy helicopter you fly over your own backyard.

        If after all that, you only fly if over your own backyard, but only when the neighbor's teenage daughter is sunbathing in their backyard, yes it deserves to be taken out.

    • I'm not sure how you can argue it was not invading privacy when it was downed with a shotgun. The maximum effective range is around 75 yards and you can pretty much shoot at people 300 yards away and pose no danger (do not do this obviously).

      75 yards is damned near the minimum height at which you can legally fly an airplane, upon which you can mount a big fancy camera. The drone does not pose a privacy risk that isn't already posed by aircraft, when operated legally. Does it potentially "violate" your notional privacy? You betcha. Does that give you the right to shoot it with your shotgun? Nope. You shoot it with a camera, show that its camera was or at least could have been facing your daughter, and go to the DA. If they're doing their job, af

    • As you said there need to be a forensic examination to determine that, as it could have been a 45Â shot above his property limit downing the drone outside (so 40 feet or 12-15 meter outside the property).
  • It's already known (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 25, 2016 @07:12AM (#52956697)

    Drone advocates can act as clueless as they wish but it is already established what we own. Up to 500ft. If building a structure less than 500 ft (Actually this was amended to 499) you need no clearance from the FAA. There is so much precedent on this that no ignorance can be taken seriously. Weather towers over less than 500ft are provided some guidance by the FAA but the FAA states this is only a helpful guideline to assist in safety for cropdusters. This feigned cluelessness by drone advocates is the same as all the cluelessness we have seen when some established rules are suddenly questioned just because the internet is involved. It's 500 ft. Ownership is a somewhat improper term. Property rights is a better term. You have the right to build unimpeded to 500 ft. Beyond this you need special clearance. This rude and boorish posturing by drone advocates would have us believe that you could build a foundation on your property then cantilever one foot off the ground such that the rest of the building was almost entirely over your neighbor's property. Pure and obvious rubbish from the drone operators.

    • But if we allow this, the next thing ya know we'll be shooting at drone operators. That will inevitably lead to rounding them all up and putting them in gas chambers.
  • by Mr D from 63 ( 3395377 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @07:34AM (#52956733)
    Was he sued before?
  • by nbritton ( 823086 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @08:57AM (#52956941)

    The drone's owner has now filed for damages in Federal Court over the loss of his $1,800 drone, arguing that the shotgun blast was unjustified because his drone wasn't actually trespassing or invading anyone's privacy.

    The Drone Slayer was originally charged with felony counts of wanton endangerment and criminal mischief. But all of those charges were dismissed in October when a district judge ruled he "had a right to shoot at the aircraft."

    It's true the Federal government has sole jurisdiction over US airspace, but that only applies to airspace above 499 feet. Furthermore, Causby v United States states that a landowner's domain extends at least up to 385 feet in rural areas.

  • The root problem here IS NOT whether or not you can shoot aircraft, or where you should be able to fly drones, but whether or not it is legal to be a belligerent asshole. Even if the drone was over the shooter's property, was he in immediate danger? Doubtful. Would shooting it be effective way to protect himself if he was? About as effective as shooting the tires of a car headed for you. So then the only real thing he did was piss off his neighbour. That's not the way civilized adults should be handling t
    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @12:55PM (#52958135)
      Yes we could try having a conversation about it. The drone owner could've asked the property owner for permission before overflying his property. He failed to initiate that conversation, believing that he could just fly wherever he wanted, everyone else's rights be damned. The property owner simply responded in kind. This tit for tat strategy [investopedia.com] turns out to be one of the most effective solutions to the Prisoner's Dilemma. At getting people to behave cooperatively.

      I agree that just shooting the drone was a dick move. But it was the drone operator who made the first dick move. You shouldn't shoot first, ask questions later. But neither should you fly first, ask questions later.
  • by WolfgangVL ( 3494585 ) on Sunday September 25, 2016 @07:38PM (#52959801)

    Them city folks just said its ok fer ussin to be shootin up all them low flyin aeroplanes. Turns out them city-slickers been peepin out them windows into yonder bathroom window while grampa's a-poopin.

Children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them. - Oscar Wilde

Working...