Top Democrats Request FBI Investigation of Trump Campaign Ties To Russia Over Hacking (politico.com) 493
As the Trump campaign refuses to point blame at Russia for the DNC hacks, top democrats on four House committees are questioning possible connections between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and Russia. They have formally asked the FBI to investigate the matter, citing new comments from a Trump confidant. Politico reports: "Troubling new evidence appears to show that the Trump campaign not only was aware of cyber attacks against Secretary [Hillary] Clinton's campaign chairman, but was openly bragging about it as far back as August," said Reps. Elijah Cummings from Government Affairs, John Conyers from Judiciary, Eliot Engel from Foreign Affairs and Bennie Thompson from Homeland Security. "For months, we have been asking the FBI to examine links between the Trump campaign and illegal Russian efforts to affect our election, including interviewing Trump advisor Roger Stone," they said. "In light of this new evidence -- and these exceptional circumstances -- we call on the FBI to fully investigate and explain to the American people what steps it is taking to disrupt this ongoing criminal activity." Earlier this week Stone said that "I do have a back-channel communication with Assange," referring to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, whose organization has been dropping documents online from Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, and has been unloading documents from other Democrats as well. U.S. intelligence agencies last week declared that a connection exists between Russia and allegedly hacked documents leaked by WikiLeaks and others.
Can we see this evidence? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can we see some of this troubling new evidence before we go to war with Russia please?
Wait about 2 weeks (Score:5, Informative)
Can we see some of this troubling new evidence before we go to war with Russia please?
I'm not counting out Trump losing for about the next 2 weeks. We have yet to see the following:
1) Wikileaks has said it has evidence that will get Hillary indicted. As yet, the Podesta E-mails haven't done that, so everyone is expecting a big drop sometime soon. Probably on Hillary's birthday, October 26th.
2) We haven't seen the last of the Podesta E-mails. A recent drop shows the democrats creating two organizations to infiltrate the Catholic religion, to create a "Catholic Spring" [catholicworldreport.com] at some point of their choosing. (Yikes! WTF, Democrats?)
3) It seems that Hillary had a hand in Kim Dotcom's arrest (remember him?). In response, Kim has promised a surprise birthday present [kitguru.net] for Hillary. (Many people will be quick to point out that Kim is various flavors of asshole, but that's beside the point - he's tech savvy, has lots of contacts, an axe to grind against Hillary, and a ton of money.)
4) Someone over at Reddit/4chan has Clinton's deleted E-mails [corvetteforum.com], and will be releasing them. These are apparently the ones deleted from her server before turning it over to the FBI.
5) One of the recent Podesta dumps included his iPhone account password, and someone hacked his account, post a screencap proving that they were in the account, and sent all the data to Wikieaks. This means that Wikileaks not only has Podesta's E-mails up to whenever, they've got more recent ones up to about 2 days ago.
6) ...and apparently remote-wiped his phone.
7) Hillary is not appearing in person *anywhere*. (Check her rallys and engagements: it's all Bill, Barak, Michelle, and Chelsea. Hillary appears in person once from now to the end of the month.) Conspiracy theorists think that this is because of some hidden illness, but that's probably not the case. The Podesta E-mails reveal that the reason she's not being seen is because she's perceived as untrustworthy in person. Her campaign is being run largely by remote control.
8) A couple of tapes of Clinton [www.therebel.media] have yet to be released.
9) And weirdly, during the last debate a fly landed on Hillary's face [heatst.com]. That's not a problem or even especially interesting, but the fact that it landed, walked around and she never flinched or even notices [youtube.com] is creeping out a lot of people.
I'm not giving up on Trump just yet, and I've still got lots of popcorn.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wikileaks debunked the 4chan hack.
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/786653209825861633 [twitter.com]
No they didn't. We checked that the credentials had already been changed.
Agree with the rest.
Thanks (Score:2)
Thanks - I wasn't aware of that.
Re: (Score:2)
9) And weirdly, during the last debate a fly landed on Hillary's face [heatst.com]. That's not a problem or even especially interesting, but the fact that it landed, walked around and she never flinched or even notices [youtube.com] is creeping out a lot of people.
That will affect the election close to zero.
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This is proper Popcorn Season. All the bickering and name calling is nothing compared to what is coming. When you have two deeply flawed candidates, everyone is going to hold their cards close until it's time to lay them all down. The American public forgets about a news story after a week. Shit is about to get gloriously real.
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This entire circus that you're blindly taking at face value is just a distraction from the fact that the two parties do have some meaningful differences. Both choices are mired in sexual scandal that overshadows little things like Hillary promising to pick a fight with Russia live on national TV.
Building wealth (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, it seems pretty weird to "not give up on Trump" at this point. You really genuinely want a republican president so badly that you're willing to elect a kiddy fiddler?
Heh.
That is sooooo far away from important to me that it doesn't even register.
Important to me is turning away from globalism, making the government work for Americans, and fixing some of our obvious problems.
Of those, the most important to me is the globalism thing. If you look at economics from a math perspective (specifically: game theory, and I'm a math person) you see that economics is based on flawed rationalizations. It's patently obvious that the rationalizations are true and correct given their assumptions, but that the assumptions are wrong.
The thing that made America great in the last half of the 20th century was the ability for citizens to build and keep wealth. Many people could get an education with little-or-no money, find a job, buy a house and raise a family.
People are finding that they can't do that any more, largely because of globalism. When a wealth-building country partners with a non-wealth-building country, all the wealth flows out of the great country and into the poor country.
England can partner with Germany or Norway and would do well. England partnering with Poland, Spain, or Greece is a disaster - Greeks can move to England and take high-paying jobs, but the English can't do the same in Greece. Greece is full of corruption, which limits personal wealth building.
To take a clear example, Clinton wants a 65% [forbes.com] estate tax. This is a clear burden on creating and keeping wealth, it's double taxing, and it will be a disaster.
Farms can't be left to children, they'll have to be sold to pay the taxes. Family-owned businesses too. And houses.
And if there's no one interested in your farm, or business, or house at the time you need to sell it, it'll be sold for a lot less than it's worth just to pay the taxes.
That's only one example, but there are a ton of others. Pretty-much everything Clinton is for will pull the country down into poverty.
Yes, I'm for Trump simply because he wants to reverse that trend.
I don't care if he's Sithrak the blind gibberer in his private life.
If he's not Clinton, he's better.
Re: Building wealth (Score:3, Insightful)
He's such a stone-cold, 100% genuine solid idiot that should he win, he will be outwitted by every world leader he meets. They'll only have to say "ISIS" and he'll jump up and beg (if that doesn't work they'll dangle a pretty young woman in front of him and make sure the cameras are running). That's why he's Putin's poodle. Putin's a great leader, Putin fight ISIS, yeah we're best friends on no wait I mean we never even talked. Wikileaks is all he has against Clinton so he has to be grateful.
He can't ev
Re: Building wealth (Score:4, Insightful)
He's such a stone-cold, 100% genuine solid idiot that should he win, he will be outwitted by every world leader he meets.
Why do you say stupid shit? He didn't get to his station in life by being outwitted. You should be able to deduce that. Every square inch of Manhattan has to be negotiated for between banks, developers AND regulators, on a level I bet you are utterly unaware even exists. His "bullying bluster and evasion" prevents his enemies from nailing him down with technicalities that aren't even important to THEM. That's what Democrats do, ignore the forest and harass you on the dimensions of each leaf.
Re:Building wealth (Score:4, Insightful)
You do realise that the proposal to raise the estate tax does not come with any proposal to lower the exemption limit, which currently stands at $5.45M. This tax is simply not affecting ordinary citizens, you are being misled by the very people who are taking your wealth and lining their pockets with it.
Re:Building wealth (Score:5, Insightful)
his tax is simply not affecting ordinary citizens
It effects small business owners.
In fact, its a very direct attack on them.
Want to leave the small business to your children? Too fucking bad says Clinton.
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Yes, I'm for Trump simply because he wants to reverse that trend.
This is literally insane. Trump's actions tell us (as opposed to merely suggesting) the exact opposite. Trump's products are made overseas and he runs a visa mill which even has his name right on it. If you think that Trump is opposed to globalization you are batshit nuts. He will be in kneepads for the IMF in a hot second if it will help him.
Also, the estate tax was only ever on the wealthy, who otherwise endlessly concentrate wealth and built dynasties... like the Clintons would like to do. If you want mo
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The thing that made America great in the last half of the 20th century was the ability for citizens to build and keep wealth.
Maybe it was also that all the factories and wealth in Europe was destroyed, and that the U.S. was one of the few countries in the world with working infrastructure. Maybe all of this is just inevitable.
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"Globalism" is kind of a meaningless political catch phrase that means whatever they bogeyman du jour happens to be.
"Globalism" that involves agreeing on economic meddling, "globalism" that creates free movement of people into welfare states have the effects that you give, and "gl
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
No, the kiddy fiddler thing is that he's currently the subject of a federal lawsuit alleging that he raped a 13 year old 4 times...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
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The time zone fits working hours in Russia.
Some person has the skill to evaded social engineering during an interview and thats a sure sign of a Russian background, education or coaching.
All that made it to the press and got passed around as fact.
The press quotes contractors and unnamed gov officials. US gov workers a
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The ip range shows some staging server
The IP shows a public Russian VPN provider. Slashdot offers VPN's that operate in such countries as well, does that mean those countries are responsible?
Code litter left behind is so well understood by private sector security contractors that they should have been able to detect access in real time.
There are lots of hacking tools from all over the place floating around the dark web, if you know where to look. This doesn't mean that the Russian government had any hand in it.
The time zone fits working hours in Russia.
Most basement dwellers as Hilary calls them tend to work the same hours as average Russians. Most Russians that work technical positions generally work closer to US hours (because
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:3, Informative)
You mean the 33,000 emails she deleted?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The bush white house lost 22 million, but um that is different. Right? 22 million [newsweek.com]
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:5, Informative)
Which were recovered in 2009 from backup.
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:4, Insightful)
So your argument is: "Vote for Hillary, she is possibly no worse than Bush!" Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. Neither does "Vote for Hillary, she is not a misogynist."
And even if there were an equivalence between Bush and Hillary on e-mails, that leaves the Clinton Foundation, Hillary's "two positions", and a string of outrageous behavior.
But the foremost problem with Hillary Clinton is the political positions she holds: both the ones her pollsters have crafted for her public appearances and the ones she has crafted to appeal to her billionaire friends and Wall Street buddies. Of course, nobody knows what she really believes, if anything.
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's see...
* Compromised national security by keeping classified on a private server, then lying about it, and deleting emails when subpoenaed.
* Says she's a champion for women, yet attacked the women who her husband screwed.
* Voted for the war in Iraq
* Complete failure in the handling of the Arab Spring, leaving voids in Libya and Egypt
* Pay for play with the Clinton Foundation
*
*
This list goes on and on.
Yes, Trump said some stupid shit that would normally disqualify him, but there's been no evidence, only speculation, that he's actually done anything criminal. And suddenly, a few weeks before the election, we're supposed to believe a bunch of women who come out at the last minute to make claims against him that he's got no chance to defend against...not buying it w/o evidence.
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:3)
Anyone who supports the affordable Care act is promising to take healthcare from millions.
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:5, Informative)
You left out the part where the emails got subpoenaed.
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Iraq war (II) and subsequent fighting is responsible for over 1 million deaths. 1 million deaths. I can't imagine how anyone can argue that it's not the most serious issue of the past 40+ years. Then there's the refugee crisis, al qaeda in Iraq (I don't care how they spell it), and the birth of isis, all stemming from this political decision.
If you have to talk politics, and sorry - this is a binary choice at the presidential level, you have to bring up the death of a *million* people. And then remember this email thing really came from a political witch hunt [youtube.com], costing tax payers millions of dollars. About a few broken laws and a handful of documents? If Hillary directly shot the 4 Benghazi victims herself, that would be comparable to less than an hour of American soldiers dying in the worst Iraq fighting. But she didn't. She was running a big organization and she (and more so others) made a mistake, for which she's examined and answered plenty already, and changes have been made to hopefully prevent the mistakes in the future.
Where's the Iraq War marathon hearings? How much did who profit from them?
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:2, Troll)
And you are a judge, or comprise a jury of one?
What is your official title in the judicial system?
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:5, Interesting)
Facts are used to make claims against Hillary. You don't have to like facts, but stop being a fool and denying facts. She lied about Bengazi, read what she told Americans and compare to her later testimony and leaked emails by several people. She lied about having a private email server, she lied about having classified email on the server, she lied about knowing what a (C) was in classified mail [evidenced by the fact that she used the designation in other emails], she lied about hearing from Ambassador Stevens, and that list could go on and on.
The question people should be asking is what is she currently lying about? Open borders which would destroy America, or fixing Immigration [which she has not bothered with in her long political career]. Is she lying about cutting taxes? If so, how do you suppose we pay for free college, free health care, and all of the other free stuff she's promising? Consider that the US is currently 20Trillion dollars in red spending 1Trillion dollars a year more than we currently take in. Is she lying about forcing companies to profit share? That would kill the entrepreneurs in the country because nobody will invest in new business. Especially if she raises taxes on the wealthy as she claims, who are the entrepreneurs.
Oh, you need more? How about asking Hillary what this magical "Fair Share" is that she keeps telling everyone we should be paying. Here is a hint, if she does not give you a number and we already pay the highest taxes in the world it's probably 100%. She want's fossil fuels to become stranded resources. How do we power a country with no assets exactly?
Go ahead and piss and moan about Trump's comment that every single person beyond puberty as at least heard, if not said. Feign moral outrage while popular musicians promote promiscuity, masturbation, killing cops, pimpin hos, and doing anything for money. Virtue signal while Universities teach people how to have great orgasm with a dildo and promote gratification while pushing the idea that only one gender can be held accountable for regrettable sex, and that sex is a great weapon to use to get ahead. Yeah, those same people that get invited to the current White House to party with the Dems and accolades from the Progressives. Why do you think Hillary openly claims she wants Supreme Court justices with a certain type of experience and refuses to mention Constitutional Rights in the same sentence? That should be easy. It's the same reason she has amassed a huge amount of wealth as a politician. The same thing people complain about with every goddamn nasty dictator and tyrant in the world.
You won't get a prize by letting them win the game. You will get bent over first and fucked the hardest. Sorry folks, the US is really that far gone and it won't take much to push it over. All you need to do to validate that is look at the collusion between the Pravda^WMedia and Kremlin^WProgressives (including the current President).
Re: Can we see this evidence? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, you need more? How about asking Hillary what this magical "Fair Share" is that she keeps telling everyone we should be paying. Here is a hint, if she does not give you a number and we already pay the highest taxes in the world it's probably 100%. She want's fossil fuels to become stranded resources. How do we power a country with no assets exactly?
Since when does the US pay the highest personal taxes in the world? Not even close...
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org... [taxpolicycenter.org]
http://www.tradingeconomics.co... [tradingeconomics.com]
If you are referring to the corporate tax rate, it may be around the 2nd highest but I guarantee you that not one company pays that rate due to write offs, tax deductions, and loopholes.
http://taxfoundation.org/artic... [taxfoundation.org]
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sure thing (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sure thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell me, how many of the hacked emails have you actually read?
How many of the hacked emails do you think almost anyone bringing them up has actually read?
I, unlike (almost assuredly) you, and the vast majority of people citing them, have actually read several. Now, keep in mind that these were carefully selected by Wikileaks, out of the vast number of emails that a campaign chair goes through, to be the most harmful things that they can find. In most of them, Clinton isn't even part of the conversation - not even quoted several replies back. However, in some of them, things she's written there. And my reaction to reading the actual words of Hillary Clinton?
Honestly, I was impressed.
Lest you think I'm a Clinton supporter, I was an Obama delegate in 2008 in the primaries when I lived in the US, aka fought hard against Clinton and her dirty campaign then. And I was a Bernie backer this time around and was harshly attacked by Clinton fans on progressive sites. Her politics don't align well with mine. She's a hawk. She's very pro-Israel. She's lagged behind the rest of the party on a lot of issues that I think important, only belatedly coming to the table (for example, gay marriage). Let's just say, I'm not her biggest fan.
But she comes across very well in her emails. It's interesting to get to read things from her not intended for public consumption, aka, without a filter. She comes across as extremely wonkish, very well informed, thinking about every last angle of every issue. To pick an example at random: one of the emails was leaked by Wikileaks to show that Saudi Arabia and Qatar were suspected of giving covert support to Daesh. Indeed, that's a very brief line in the email, that it's suspected and diplomatic pressure should be put on them to stop it. But most of the content in the email was a strategy analysis for how to deal with the conflicts in the region. If we do X, then Y will be upset with us, but we can compensate with Z, and if we don't do it then A will perceive B and think that they can then get away with C..... on and on across numerous axes. How can you change perceptions without actually taking action, for example? She brings up Benghazi - every Republican's favorite buzzword. But it's in the context of two US fighter jets who overflew during the attacks, and about how even though the jets had no authorization to attack, simple fear that they would provide close air support diminished the level of attacks for several hours.
Check out any of the leaked emails with any relevant amount of content from her. Not just some brief "here's the twitter-length shocker" summary written by someone else - read them yourselves. Yes, the "shockers" are there. But so are very detailed lines of thinking about policy. No rage or emotional reactions. Actually, if you want to stick any of the "negative Hillary stereotypes" to her private writings, the one that probably fits best is the "cold and calculating" one. Analytic would probably be a better summary. Things like, what are all of the angles on this? What do we know, and what don't we know? What's the long game?
Just my take. Form your own. Take in more than just soundbytes.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Bullshit.
I read about her insider trading when she asked someone at the IMF in the EU about if Greece was getting a bailout, so her son in law could make a big bet on it happening. The guy at the IMF gave her a fairly detailed explanation of everything being considered, who was involved, and their stances on the issue. It basically came down to he said Greece was getting a bail out [side note, her son in law lost a shit load of money based on that insider information being wrong]. Her response to the inf
Re: Sure thing (Score:4, Insightful)
No, he's a Democrat. And Democrats always come home, even if its for a candidate who was the Antichrist 8 years ago, and who rigged the primary against their preferred candidate.
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Hillary, if Trump were elected everyone would be watching too closely and would call him on it.
Re:Sure thing (Score:5, Informative)
If I were as crude as you, I would be responding with your trademark "bullshit" response right now. Unless you're talking about something else (wherein you should probably reference it), you never read that email because it was lost [washingtonexaminer.com] (at least the relevant parts, aka the attachment). The only writing from Clinton on the subject was a hasty "Pls print two copies." Is that what you call reading things she's written? Furthermore,, the supposedly "damning" thing is a chain-of-guilt. Nothing at all about Clinton giving information to her son it law, it's "Sullivan gave the info to someone else, who works at the Clinton foundation, and Chelsea works for the Clinton foundation too, and her husband was investing in Greece, therefore Hillary Clinton is a corrupt scumbag"). I'm rather surprised that with all of the stuff Clinton had to read on Greece as part of her job that they couldn't find something worse than this to try to tar her with. The most "corrupt" action that's come forth in the Wikileaks releases concerning Clinton and Mezvinsky themselves is that she forwarded an email from him [wikileaks.org] to another government official. I know, stop the presses.
Back to the original topic: I recommend that people read things she wrote and form their own opinions from them. You clearly did not do that. It's something that very, very few people here commenting about the emails have actually done. They just repeat the "gotchas" that the leaks were designed to elicit.
Nice post (Score:2)
Dude, great post. I would definitely mod you up if I had points.
Re: (Score:2)
Hillary Clinton , her campaign and staff cannot even figure out how to secure an email. Even the THIRD time they were hacked they STILL couldn't figure out how to secure there email, even my autistic little sister has two factor authentication. The Clinton campaign as about as much sophistication of a group of teenagers planning a raid in World of Warcraft.
And you want Clinton to have nuclear codes? Clinton might as well send them to evening news and publish them on twitter and facebook.
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You mean they should spend tax money and valuable resources investigating one of the most transparent and well respected charitable organizations on the planet?
Yes, the one that misled the IRS [breitbart.com], according to an internal audit.
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Linking to breitbart is hilarious.
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> You mean they should spend tax money and valuable resources investigating one of the most transparent and well respected charitable organizations on the planet?
Since when did Hillary get mixed up in the Red Cross?
And furthermore (Score:2)
All those allegations against him, are ALL malicious and designed to stop him getting into power.
Did any on those women come forward before the released 'I just grab their pussy' tape? No. He was secretly recorded (where's the FBI investigation?), the tape was released to embarrass him (FBI?), and all these women came forward with their stories. They can't prove their stories.
Trump is the victim here, not these women, he's the one being abused, he's the one being spied on, they should say sorry to him for making up those stories.
Furthermore, none of those women pressed charges or filed suit against a billionaire at the time. I guess we weren't a very litigious society back in the '90s.
Also, at least one witness came forward [breitbart.com] to claim that nothing happened - that he was there with the woman (and Trump) the entire time and nothing happened.
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Uhhh, actually, charges were pressed *long* before this... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
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To people like you, women are an entirely different species. In the words of Trump, sad.
Re: Sure thing (Score:2)
Yeah. Let's just go by what comey said, and not what comey the FBI and the DOJ actually *did*.
FFS (Score:3, Interesting)
Enough already. We get it, Democrats, you really want to go to war with Russia for some reason. It's as blatant as Bush's desire to go to war in the Middle East.
Enough. Stop with the pretending that an insider leaking your dirty laundry A) excuses your corruption or B) is a justification for war.
Just, give it up. Please.
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Enough already. We get it, Democrats, you really want to go to war with Russia for some reason.
So the investigation should not continue in case it embarrasses Putin and you are afraid of that?
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Pick either candidate, your future president will be a loser and an international joke regardless.
I'm embarrassed for you all.
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I remember when Democrats told us that being shocked that our President is a misogynistic womanizer and accused rapist was somehow not-cosmopolitan and made us look foolish in the eyes of the world. It's funny how the wheel turns.
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Yes, because when I think of pro-war, anti-Russian, militaristic jingoists, it's the party of left-wing hippies.
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The AC wasn't talking about Clinton, they were talking about Democrats in general.
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Re:FFS (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's the US. Everything is right of center, but it's still the "American Left"
The source isn't important (Score:2, Insightful)
The whole, "The Russians did it!" is completely irrelevant. The hacks/leaks/whatever show that these people are complete slime and probably shouldn't be trusted to clean your toilet, let alone run your country. If the Russians have this information, it's safe to assume that *everyone* who wants this information has it. This entire crescendo of "The Russians!" is just a ploy to try to get people to ignore the horrible facts in these leaks and instead build up a bogeyman to redirect the peoples anger. It'
Re:The source isn't important (Score:5, Insightful)
So, we should just ignore the real possibility that a concerted effort is being made by the Russian intelligence services to influence our election, and install a President who would be favorable to Russian interests?
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Yes. (Probably.) I'm not sure if the Russian interests are governmental (Putin-related or not), other political, economical or private, but whatever. The ‘interests’ are trying to influence our elections through data leaks. That means they have found that on some subjects their interests align with ours, and if you're a party whose interests align with the people of some nation, there's nothing wrong with trying to persuade that people, and when you do, you'll necessarily influence the elections
Re:The source isn't important (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes? EVERYONE tries to influence EVERYONE's elections, the US meddles in pretty much every "election" overseas. A lot of the 'elections' in South America and even the Middle East have historically been heavily influenced by the CIA if not outright manufactured by them. If these candidates were on the up-and-up they wouldn't be able to be so easily influenced.
so what? (Score:4, Insightful)
So we should go ahead and do what Putin wants, because everybody wants something? That makes Trump sense.
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Frankly, I applaud any agency, foreign or domestic, that exposes the filth that constitutes our government. In this particular election cycle, the DNC has taken a beating. I suspect the Republicans have remained relatively unscathed by The Russian Bogeyman because it's pretty obvious that Trump will insert his foot into his mouth whenever given the opportunity. Why try to destroy a candidate that is obviously going to destroy himself?
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This sounds like the cry of the losers. Democrats are desperately trying their best to demonize Trump and anyone who might vote for him. Despite all of this, there remain tons of people that are simply not Democrat or have hated Hillary pretty much her entire political career.
Crying foul here is the loser trying to blame someone else for their failings. It was true for the Bernie supports. It's true any time Trumpies wine about it. It's true for Clinton News Network and friends.
If it's the truth then it's o
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Ah, but the "seriousness of the charge" only works on Republicans.
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Whistleblowers https://cryptome.org/2013-info... [cryptome.org] Staff know what happens after people raise internal mil/gov/contractor legal questions within the US.
A walk out to the press is the only still protected way to get the message out. Physically handing over material so no digital trail exists if both sides are cell phone aware when mak
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The whole, "The Russians did it!" is completely irrelevant. The hacks/leaks/whatever show that these people are complete slime and probably shouldn't be trusted to clean your toilet, let alone run your country. If the Russians have this information, it's safe to assume that *everyone* who wants this information has it. This entire crescendo of "The Russians!" is just a ploy to try to get people to ignore the horrible facts in these leaks and instead build up a bogeyman to redirect the peoples anger. It's grade A+ politics.
If a newspaper does investigative journalism that seems to hurt your candidate slightly more than their opponent you'll raise hell.
But when Russia sends their intelligence service to dig up every possible piece of dirt on the opponent... well that's completely fine!
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If Russia did it, then the Russians are the ONLY people doing any investigative anything.
Everything on the news is just mud slinging, on both sides. This is embarrassing.
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Poltical Stunt (Score:2)
A stupid electioneering stunt to what, show desperation, demonstrate panic, put even further on public display the political corruption of various government agencies.
What the fuck do they not understand about the majority of people thinking it is great, fantastic, job well done, when foreign governments spy on the corruption of your government and release that information to the public.
The only message to the foreign government from the majority of citizens, thank you and the message to their own governm
Trump may be KGB (Score:5, Funny)
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I don't know it for sure, but I heard about it on the internet. I think Trump needs to produce papers proving he's not a KGB agent. (I believe he is their most tremendous agent - there has never been a better KGB agent than Donald Trump.)
I know you're being funny, but I'm old enough to remember the lengths the Soviets went to turn important US citizens to their cause. It would be naive to think that the ex-KGB establishment is Russia isn't engaging similar tactics right now.
I'm not for a moment suggesting Trump is a 'KGB agent', but he has business history is Russia, and it's quite possible some deals have been done somewhere. Who knows for sure, only some impartial examination of financial history would tell for sure.
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More than just "business interests". Most Western banks won't do business with him any more, citing him as a bad risk. The only place left for him to get money for his "projects" is the Russian oligarchy.
The one Western bank that will still deal with Trump is Deutsche Bank, and their stock price has taken a huge hit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/wh... [wsj.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08... [nytimes.com]
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If that was enough he'd look guilty as hell due to his huge recent loans from Russian banks. It needs more than that, even though it looks pretty bad to have a canditate that owes a lot to a nation we have a few problems with.
Obligatory... (Score:3)
What about investigating the content in the leaks? (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, the level of political gyration in this election is beyond astounding. I and many others have lost complete faith in journalistic integrity and ethics, and we are approaching Soviet-era levels of information control with respect to the leaks. In those leaks are very serious allegations of fraud, illegal collusion with the media and with other parties inside and outside the government, perjury and other criminal acts, the hypocritical content aside.
You will also notice that no politician has forwarded these allegations for investigation to the FBI, nor has the FBI apparently undertaken any effort to investigate these allegations. You will notice that the FBI has begun investigating the source of the leaks, but this action is contradictory in and of itself. Either the leaks are false, in which case there is nothing real that was leaked, or the leaks are true, in which case both the leaked material AND the source of the leaks are investigated.
What we have now is an overt subversion of the rule of law and the distraction pointed at our old enemy Russia. Russia, of course, isn't too happy with us meddling in Ukraine or Syria because we can't get our fucking noses out of those places and nearly every other country where we have some cold war or energy interest. As much as I regret saying this, the Arab Spring has shown that having a dictator in the Arab world is preferable to having tribal religious extremism tear the country apart, destroy some of humanity's oldest heirlooms in the name of religious extremism, and spawn terrorism all over the world.
But even that isn't enough. Now there's word the CIA will organize a cyber-attack against Russia soon. I'm definitely not a big fan of Russia with their imperialistic ambitions and the oligarchs robbing common people their blind, but this country is doing everything but deescalating conflict and creating an extremely dangerous situation.
Perhaps it's finally time to clean up our own house, first and foremost. If we can't fight the level of corruption that the Wikileaks emails and subsequent actions of the current administration have shown, then there's no doubt that using yet another foreign conflict as a distraction is driving this country headlong into disaster. Too bad people can't get together and put their partisanship aside to have a million people march outside the Capitol or down Pennsylvania Avenue to attempt to get them to investigate everything and everyone impartially, foreign and domestic, Republicrat and Demican, and everyone in between.
In other words, if we don't get our shit together, welcome to the alternate version of Alien vs. Predator. Whoever wins, we lose.
Verdict (Score:3)
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Uh, that would be Joe McCarthy [wikipedia.org]. If you expect people to take you seriously, you really should make a minimal effort to get your facts straight. It's not like there's not an Internet to use for looking up these things.
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You sound like maybe you are infected. Maybe go to the doctor and get that checked out. Hallucinations and dementia can be treated.
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They are not illegal, they followed the law, the constitution and their policies.
Um, I'm pretty sure hacking a computer system you don't own is illegal...
Or are you saying that when conducting operations overseas the laws in the country affected should be considered?
Yes, that is how the law works.
In that case everything the NSA does is illegal, not just the national spying.
Probably, but just because one person breaks the law doesn't give everyone else permission to do it too.
It's quite likely that the NSA, Trump, and Clinton are all criminals, that doesn't mean Trump has carte blanche to do what he likes. Clinton has been investigated numerous times, why shouldn't Trump be held to the same standard?
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Um, I'm pretty sure hacking a computer system you don't own is illegal...
Well, if it really was an official Russian campaign, it would be legal for them. Just like many Americans like to point out that when the NSA fucks people from other countries it is legal.
Yes, that is how the law works.
Agree with you, I'm my country spying on me is illegal, but the NSA is doing it and many Americans say that "that's their job". According to the GCHQ, they are doing PSYOPS here too [theintercept.com], also illegal here. BTW, this is exactly what the Russians are being accused of.
Clinton has been investigated numerous times, why shouldn't Trump be held to the same standard?
I wasn't talking about investigating Trump, TFA used the expre
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So you're saying it's legal in Russian, the way invading Russia was legal in German in 1941.
Ultimately what laws amount to is everyone else ganging up on you because you're acting like a dick.
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You understood my comment.
My point is that many Americans keep saying that what the NSA does against foreigners is legal, and that it is their job. Well, as one of those affected foreigners, I feel offended that Americans defend the assholes in the NSA that disrespect my laws, constitution and rights. Your comparison with the 1941 Germans is great too.
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Why bother with Nazis? These are the same Russians that were the red scare from the time they stole the revolution from Kerenski until Gorbachev let it finally implode.
You don't need to point to 1941 Germans, you can point to 1980 Russians.
The great (funny) thing about these arguments is that Russia doesn't represent any great ideological existentialist threat any more. That's Iran and Saudi Arabia.
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Let's for a moment pretend it was the Russians...
Yes, let's.
In this case illegal or not is not the primary issue. Democracy works to the extent it does because the playing field is nearly level. If one side has far more power to dig up dirt on the other side that is a perversion of the process.
Hillary has the actual sitting President of the United States working for her campaign at this point. He's making speeches and so forth. He is the head of our government, and has at his disposal the NSA, CIA, FBI, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.
Suddenly, even with those "Russian" hacks, the field seems like it's tilted at about an eighty degree angle. Two guesses which side has the better position.
IOW, that was a terrible argument if you think supposed "Russian" involvement is somehow making the fi
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Bill Clinton taking Chinese Communist money for his campaigns, Carlos Slim spending his millions in this election cycle, or Hillary taking millions from Middle Eastern countries. All of that is okay when you're a Democrat. Foreign money is just another campaign contribution, just like dead voters' votes count just like live ones.
True, so why is Trump hiding? If he discloses his tax returns, just like every Democrat and Republican before him, then we can hold him to the same standard.
No-one is pretending either side are clean, we just want to compare like against like.
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If there is evidence of criminality in his tax returns he would be under prosecution.
The question is ethics, not criminality. When you are running for leader of the free world, this is kind of an important personality trait.
He may have a personal, business, or even political (i.e., he'll release his taxes when Hillary produces her missing email) for not releasing them.
Who cares, when you run for office you are expected to be accountable and transparent. Whether you are left right or other, accountability and transparency should be a mandatory requirement.
Do you make your taxes public? If not, then why not?
I'm not running for public office, but I did do a low level government contract once and was required to declare not only my taxes, but my income, outgoings, all the places I've t
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Not one voter was forbidden to vote, not one vote was switched.
Hillary got more votes, and that is why she is beating Trump with his own mouth
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Right, because the head of the DNC always resigns in disgrace when nothing wrong was done...
Re: So much hypocrisy from the DNC... (Score:2)
You really suck at teaching.
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I'm not sure about your argument here. Lets break it down. You're saying that because it is physically possible for somebody other than the accused to commit the same type of act, at any time or place, then it impossible for the accused to have been the one who did it at the stated time and place.
That is so stupid, I'm not even sure there is a name for that one.
Yes, it is so simple that others could have done it. Therefore it was obviously within their capabilities to do it! We do not have any public info
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We have a satellite up in space with a giant mind control beam making it appear that reality favors the Democrats, but don't fear, nothing is real, it is all projected into your mind by the apparatus.
I mean, or else your party flag-bearers lied to you. But that is too impossible to consider.
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If you understood the technical aspects of what went on, you would notice that it is impossible to (at this point) blame the Russians.
Her e-mails were hacked decades ago. This Podesta guy was "hacked" simply by guessing a password. Any hacker worth their salt would've used a proxy or Tor or something similar. Whether or not a node or even the IP in the logs was in Russia is not evidence.
It's not like the hackers left a note "KGB took this, thanks for Mister Trump"