Teachers 'Unwittingly' Spying On School Children With Surveillance Software (thestack.com) 76
An anonymous reader writes: A thousand schools across the UK are monitoring children's classroom activities through surveillance software, according to a new report released by privacy advocate group Big Brother Watch. The paper claims that schools have spent an estimated 2.5 million pound ($3.1 million USD) on monitoring solutions to keep an eye on pupils. The technology, known as 'Classroom Management Software', tracks computer usage, including pupil internet activity, browser history, and even keyboard strokes. The report found that 70% of secondary schools (PDF) in Britain have installed monitoring systems, across more than 800,000 school-owned devices and near to 1,500 privately-owned devices.
well... (Score:5, Interesting)
If these are school-owned computers, on school property, then I don;thave much of a problem with this... privately owned devices and/or devicesa the students take home, not as much so
Re:well... (Score:5, Interesting)
If these are school-owned computers, on school property, then I don;thave much of a problem with this... privately owned devices and/or devicesa the students take home, not as much so
Interesting point. If they were adults then I'd agree. However kids aren't really able to ascertain the implications of this spying, so I'm unsure. Also, they don't have much choice about the matter. I can choose whether or not to work for an employer that acts like Big Brother, kids don't really have much of a choice about which school they go to.
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I have my users locked down tight... if you want to set up a profile for Ashley Madison do it at home where your spouse can help you because you won't be getting to it or anything else here and any traffic logged at the firewall is for trouble shooting. We already know your not browsing adult content unless it's a couple years worth of playboy and penthouse hidden in the back of a file cabinet and one of the secretaries found it while you where on vacation and now your fired.
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Are you comparing an offhanded internet comment to a thesis paper? Really? And why throw out the comment about you having a masters, should I be impressed. I apologize but I am not.
Re:well... (Score:4, Informative)
Despite what the article says, I'm going to go with the "this is not unwittingly." Those teachers and organizations know or should know exactly what they're doing.Seems like some kids are able to. [nbcphiladelphia.com] The court case for anyone who wants to read it. [wikipedia.org] Keep in mind that the UK is the same country that tried to create life-long student records for "extremism." And there was also most recently the trojan horse scandal, [wikipedia.org] and on top of that a school recently turned around and said that "If you don't go to the mosque, they'll be marked down as a racist for their entire school career." [i.redd.it] FYI: School is in the same region as the trojan horse scandal. The UK has a lot of problems.
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if you use a public toilet it's not YOUR toilet, you don't OWN that toilet, i guess it's ok to install a camera in their and watch you take a shit... oh not cool?
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There are no cameras in changing rooms, the cameras are outside of the rooms to make sure you dont walk away wearing the clothing. Its also why they count how many items you take in with you and put the tag on your door listing the number of items you should bring back out with you. The tag is so there is video evidence hey this schmuck took three items in and came out with one.
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In what country? Because in the US they aren't allowed to as it's a violation of privacy. Same with the bathrooms. Having worked in service through college, I can promise you that they get vandalized regularly, but it's illegal to put cameras in to catch said vandalism. As for changing rooms, you aren't allowed to put cameras in them, however you are allowed to disallow them from bringing bags in with them and limiting the number of items they can bring with them. Which is what they actually do.
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According to the telly earlier, some schools are implementing BYOD which does blur the issue a little. Unless they remove it at 3:30 and reinstall it at 9:00 the next day.
But really, if the schools didn't do this and one of the pupils was caught with jihadist donkey porn there'd be a shitstorm of complaints, and it'd be 90% the same people.
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Exactly.
"Why didn't you have monitoring and blocking in place to prevent kids from going to inappropriate sites!!!!!!!
Re: well... (Score:2)
Kids are given computer so they can learn skills and eti
Unwittingly? (Score:2)
How is it unwitting if they spend $3.1 millions on it?
It's like saying I got unwittingly stoned after ingesting these drugs...
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How is it unwitting if they spend $3.1 millions on it?
I was wondering this. The TFA says that it's the teachers that are the unwitting parties. It's the schools that are buying the spy software, and the teachers are having to use it. I guess unwilling would be a better term, but you get the gist.
Good (Score:1)
You need to keep a tight leash on those little rug rats.
How are you going to guide a student if you don't know what they are up to all the time?
That's the trade off... you are young with few responsibilities but you are monitored closely. Once you are older, you are not monitored so closely and have more freedom but with that comes responsibilities...
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How else are they going to track the affect of the state indoctrination and propaganda?
Not news to me (Score:1)
"monitoring children's classroom activities" (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't "monitoring children's classroom activities" pretty much number one on a teacher's list of responsibilities?
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Exactly. I think a right to privacy is paramount; however, kids need to be watched. Just like they haven't gained many rights and privileges afforded to adults, they also haven't yet earned to right to privacy.
Protectors of children, be it parent, or teacher need to be monitoring the children whilst under their care.
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A few years ago there was a scandal about school-provided laptops that the kids took home. The school got caught red-handed using the cameras to spy on the kids even when they weren't using the laptops, in their own bedrooms.
The school insisted that they never did this, despite the fact that they got caught because they accused a student of using illegal drugs (in his own bedroom), based on video-camera evidence from one of these laptops.
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This is a different matter.
When a kid is at home, his is under his parents or guardian responsibility. By spying on the kids at home, the school violated the privacy of whoever is taking care of the kid.
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Exactly. I think a right to privacy is paramount; however, kids need to be watched.
So, in your view, a right to privacy isn't really paramount, more like para-paramount.
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Exactly. I think a right to privacy is paramount; however, kids need to be watched.
So, in your view, a right to privacy isn't really paramount, more like para-paramount.
Or, come to think of it, parent-paramount.
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And that's exactly how this software functions - it allows a teacher to watch thumbnails of a classroom's worth of pupils at a time; in many cases the software allows capturing screenshots, polling/testing, allowing or blocking specified activities, and even enables distance learning for telecommuting/virtual classrooms. Generally the software isn't collecting metrics although that is possible to some degree, but most teachers or lab admins don't have the time or energy to follow up on what those numbers in
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Yes, but that does not go so far as monitoring their blood pressure, how full their bladder is, ... ie there are limits. So if a teacher (reasonably) says that they can have 5 minutes free time and send email, ... the keystroke logger will capture the kids' mail account passwords. Then who knows what will happen to it. The school will doubtless say that they will not scrape passwords, but: * can you trust everyone who can access the logs; * what happens when the next data breach comes along and these logs g
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I work at a school. We block all email services except for the one we control, and the one we control has filters on it that prevent any student from emailing another student.
We have this in place because a lot of bullying was taking place over email, and the school could have faced legal action because of it.
And this is a surprise? Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
.
Did anyone at all stop to think at the reasons why software and computer companies are so eager to get their software and hardware in the classrooms and in the backpacks of our children? It certainly does not appear to be to help the children, though that is the reason they hide behind.
At a minimum, every school and every parent should ask their technology vendors what information is being harvested from the children, and with whom is it shared?
It appears that these companies are building databases on our children for unspecified use and with our passive cooperation.
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If I were you I would read through the EULA's of all that software before I made such claims.
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Sigh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sigh.
I work in schools, in the UK.
It is THE LAW that we must ensure that the children's devices do not expose them and are managed and under school control. Hence we install monitoring software.
We are required, by child protection laws, by e-safety regulations, by basic child management, and by parental demand, to watch what they are doing and intercept what we can.
And, from experience, even when we do, kids will load up porn sites (Filters? We have multiple layers. Kids are good at getting round them) and try to print them out before the IT guys can stop it, kids will watch movie trailers not suitable for their age, kids will try to get on their home email or some third-party message service so they can chat across the classrooms (exposing themselves to the possibility of strangers contacting them, which is the first stage of grooming).
Bitch about it all you want, the law says we have to protect them in this way and any school that doesn't will fail inspection, be outed by parents and be on the news by lunchtime when a child just walks past their management, filters or settings.
And in the days of BYOD and 1:1 devices, that means we also install settings, management profiles and enforce proxy/filter settings on device that they might well take home. Generally, parents will DEMAND that. Or else they are just being given a computer that - at home - lets their little darlings walk past their NetNanny or equivalent.
And it's parents demanding the devices in the first place. Certainly not the school IT departments!
Before you leap on the privacy shite, consider the background. Schools have ZERO choice in this. Failing to implement such measures means they will be taken to court. Not providing devices or BYOD means they are made to feel like the dinosaurs of education and parents run away from them. In some cases, such devices are basically DEMANDED.
Feel like that leaves you between a rock and a hard place? Welcome to my life.
I've worked in UK schools all my life as the IT guy. State, private, primary, secondary and above. We have no choice. Even data protection means we need to secure, manage and lock down the children's machines so that their data doesn't leak to third-parties (like browser extensions and shite like other front-page stories at the moment) - because THAT'S breaking the law as well, unless they have an EU-compatible Data Protection policy.
Before you assume evil on behalf on the schools, imagine the alternative - schools without tech competing with schools with tech, or schools with no e-Safety of child protection on their machines.
We teach our pupils to treat the school iPad like an exercise book. Use it for work. Configure it for your work. Don't play games on it. Don't doodle on it. Only use it in lessons when your teacher asks you to. Take it home and do your homework on it if you like/need to. But spying on the kids via it? No. Because it should be used for school work only. Worried about the school IT guy looking at what your child searches for? You have bigger problems, such as what they are doing to your child in school, with access to their school email, web history, etc. And if you're that worried, turn the device off when at home.
But don't come out guns blazing thinking that child privacy is the biggest issue at play here. It's not. It's important - ESPECIALLY important. But the other things that it dictates (i.e. others not seeing that information that the school already can get a myriad of ways) are infinitely more important.
Re:Sigh. (Score:5, Insightful)
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We don't log keys, but we do log every application launched and site visited. It's mostly for after-the-fact investigations. When someone leaves pornographic printouts scattered around the corridoors as a joke (this has happened) or takes a picture of another student from the school website, draws a crude penis pointing in their mouth and labels it 'fag' (this has also happened) then we need every bit of evidence we can get to try to work out who was responsible - and to prove who was responsible when they
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We don't log keys, but we do log every application launched and site visited. It's mostly for after-the-fact investigations. When someone leaves pornographic printouts scattered around the corridoors as a joke (this has happened) or takes a picture of another student from the school website, draws a crude penis pointing in their mouth and labels it 'fag' (this has also happened) then we need every bit of evidence we can get to try to work out who was responsible - and to prove who was responsible when they accused then claims that they went to the toilet without logging out and someone else must have used their account.
Sounds like you're doing exactly what you should be doing at a school, then. I'd mod your reply up if I could.
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I don't use keyloggers, but a lot of the "monitoring" software has that feature. Does that count as "we bought keyloggers"? Apparently so.
And I can think of uses for them. Until you work in a rough school (e.g. where 16-year-old kids will throw a PC through a third-floor window because "why am I sitting GCSE computing, I'm gonna be a mechanic anyway, my dad said so", and then start a fight INSIDE AN EXAM ROOM to get out of it etc.), you have no idea of the shit that flies around. Even things like workin
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I also work in IT in a UK school.
You're exactly right. Our kids have an iPad each through the school but it is made abundantly clear to them and their parents (who own the iTunes account, what with their 13+ age restriction) that we, the school, owns the device. They can do what they want on it, though there are exceptions whilst they attend: We block facetime, iMessage and a couple of others during school hours (which is an absolute PITA - apple do not provide good enough controls for this stuff) and preve
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You're exactly right. Our kids have an iPad each through the school but it is made abundantly clear to them and their parents (who own the iTunes account, what with their 13+ age restriction) that we, the school, owns the device.
What happens if parents refused to sign up for any accounts on behalf of their son/daughter-student? And/or refuse to sign for responsibility for the school-provided device(s) nor provide their own device(s)? If the student himself refuses to sign for responsibility/an account, or even take possession of the device(s)?
Strat
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I can tell you exactly what happens in that situation: The student doesn't get to use the computers. At all.
I've never actually seen it happen, but I have seen new students stuck in that situation for a week while their parents keep forgetting to sign and return the usage agreement form.
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Correct.
And nobody ever protests to the point that it doesn't happen.
My current school even get around the "having to edit photographs for those children whose parents didn't consent" stuff - the school agreements basically says that by sending them to the school, you agree we can use their photo for school purposes. We still can't IDENTIFY the child (child protection again), but we don't have to sit and blank out faces from a photo of an assembly with 500+ kids.
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OP here, should have signed in to comment :/
Some parents refuse the use of a device altogether (though we've only had two of these) and unfortunately, these students go without. But it's understandable, all material is available in a non-digital format anyway. The rest, we either control the device and account (they pick it up from us every morning and drop it off after school) or if the parent wants a device but doesn't want an account (which hasn't been the case yet) they would have a device and we contro
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I work in IT in a UK school too.
We don't do BYOD here. All student devices are school-owned and monitored. We use a (fairly popular) combined firewall/email/web filter appliance that filters the web pretty aggressively, because we have to comply with both UK and Scottish legislation on child protection.
Under the new "Prevent" legislation, we even have a duty to monitor students use of web and email for signs of extremism! We're still waiting for the appliance vendor to roll out an update that will allow us
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Yeah, that's my ultimate plan.
That's why I blocked fingerprint payments in the canteen.
That's why I blocked ID cards and access cards for the kids.
That's why I blocked use of their photographs on their accounts.
That's why I block anything that hints of 1984.
But THE LAW says I need to protect them from people finding out that same information. And that means their SCHOOL device, used FOR SCHOOL, bought BY THE SCHOOL, needs to be managed by THE SCHOOL. Amazing that. It says NOTHING about what the parents d
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Not News (Score:1)
Challenge (Score:2)
School: You can't do what you want on school computers. we have surveillance software too.
Kids: Challenge Accepted!
inb4TheRiseOfTwelveYearsOldScriptKiddies
curso NR 10 (Score:1)