Firefox Goes PulseAudio Only, Leaves ALSA Users With No Sound (omgubuntu.co.uk) 322
An anonymous reader shares a report: If you're a Linux user who upgraded to Firefox 52 only to find that the browser no longer plays sound, you're not alone. Firefox 52 saw release last week and it makes PulseAudio a hard dependency -- meaning ALSA only desktops are no longer supported. Ubuntu uses PulseAudio by default (as most modern Linux distributions do) so the switch won't affect most -- but some Linux users and distros do prefer, for various reasons, to use ALSA, which is part of the Linux kernel. Lubuntu 16.04 LTS is one of the distros that use ALSA by default. Lubuntu users who upgraded to Firefox 52 through the regular update channel were, without warning, left with a web browser that plays no sound. Lubuntu 16.10 users are not affected as the distro switched to PulseAudio.
This is silly (Score:5, Interesting)
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While I quite like PulseAudio, does it even run on anything but ALSA?
Yes, hence why it can be used on BSDs, Solaris and macOS.
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Hey. I'm in favor of that, especially if they get rid of the stupid versioning system that was inherited from Chrome...
Re:This is silly (Score:5, Funny)
I didn't know they where still maintaining ALSA audio. Did they get all the bugs fixed in PulseAudio? None of my Linux machines have any audio on them at all, so I'm a little out of date.
Re:This is silly (Score:5, Informative)
Pulse is just an alsa client. Alsa isn't unmaintained. It is the defacto sound system for linux.
Re: This is silly (Score:5, Insightful)
What benefit do Firefox users get?
Future compatibility for when systemd wraps pulseaudio into itself. You know it's coming.
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They'd have to resolve the schizophrenic extremes between systemd's THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE USER, and PulseAudio's THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF USERS AND UNIX PERMISSIONS ALONE CANNOT PROTECT THE SOUNDCARD.
Once they figure out how to get audio to work when I'm logged in as both my user and as root in different VCs, then they'll be able to merge the projects.
Most likely, though, they'll just continue to be schizo and merge it as is, and come up with some new way of fucking everyone over to deal with the fallout (muc
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What benefit do Firefox users get?
Future compatibility for when systemd wraps pulseaudio into itself. You know it's coming.
GIven PulseAudio was also written by Poettering I'm surprised it hasn't been already.
That said, PulseAudio is another bastard that needs to die a horrible death. KDE/Qt riped it out long ago because of the issues in favor of GStreamer.
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None. ALSA is strictly better for any single source of local audio: PulseAudio is physically unable of working when ALSA doesn't.
PulseAudio provides a clicky-clicky way to connect certain bluetooth headphones, and may provide software mixing for some sound cards that are otherwise limited to one sound at a time, but those are fringe uses. On the other hand, ALSA is way more powerful wrt channel routing: try for example reordering+remixing 5.1 surround: ALSA gives you an user-unfriendly 6x6 matrix which yo
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but those are fringe uses
All of which can be done by ALSA, just without the pretty GUI.
Re: This is silly (Score:4, Informative)
ALSA is a kernel interface, PulseAudio is userspace and higher level.
PulseAudio is not just a wrapper and can do a lot of neat stuff like independent volume control, multiple outputs, bluetooth, network transmission, LADSPA filters, etc.
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alsa-lib is userland and abstracts device differences, though I believe it is possible to write directly to /dev/snd/pcm* if you wanted. I believe any application supporting alsa directly calls this library.
Re: This is silly (Score:5, Interesting)
This is how I understand it.
Once Firefox e10s (Electrolysis) with sandboxing is enabled by default, every Firefox content process will be independent and restricted.
Most ALSA devices cannot handle multiple open. And the ALSA solution, dmix, requires shared memory which is a thing sandboxes do not really want to have, and dmix does not understand sandboxes, so it would probably have to be forked and modified.
So Firefox can write their own sound server to get sound data from each independent content tab, or blow huge holes in the sandboxes for ALSA dmix, or they can just use the sound server that already exists and is used by 98% of Linux desktop users: PulseAudio.
Re: This is silly (Score:2)
How does Chrome/Chromium handle that?
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The primary visible feature to most users is per-application volume control.. Essentially, pulse is a userland mixer. It supports effects plugins, multiplexing, network IO, etc. It also adds noticeable latency and has bugs of its own. Alsa also has a software mixer, dmix, but IIRC it was not enabled by default at the time pulse was first released. Without dmix, only one application could open the sound device at a time (unless the device had hardware mixing eg:sblive/audigy). This issue helped drive adopti
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Wrong. ALSA supports software mixing with the dmix module. And as a bonus if you have a sound card which does hardware mixing you won't be forced to do software mixing like you are with pulseaudio.
Further, pulseaudio emulates ALSA - programs targeting ALSA can use pulseaudio seamlessly. So the benefit of targeting pulseaudio rather than ALSA is exactly nil.
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dammit, I meant to reply to #54060713 [slashdot.org]
Re: Fire Slashdot Editors (Score:2)
jbernardo [slashdot.org] writes: While trying to justify breaking audio on firefox for several linux users by making it depend on pulseaudio [mozilla.org] (and not even mentioning it in the release notes), Anthony Jones [mozilla.org], who claims, among other proud achievements, to be "responsible for bringing Widevine DRM to Linux, Windows and Mac OSX", informs users that disabling telemetry will have consequences — "Telemetry informs our decisions. Turning it off is not without disadvantage."
Re: This is silly (Score:5, Informative)
ALSA has supported software mixing for over a decade [ubuntuforums.org].
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Using just ALSA, only one application can use an ALSA device at any one time
Lies. I can play games while streaming youtube videos and playing mp3s all at the same time on my pulseaudio-free system.
Re: This is silly (Score:5, Funny)
Lies. I can play games while streaming youtube videos and playing mp3s all at the same time on my pulseaudio-free system.
Well, I mean, you could, before.
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No, you're thinking OSS. ALSA fixed that.
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Wrong. ALSA does software mixing. Also, I have three different sound cards (all different models) that do hardware mixing.
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Actually, I think the more accurate word is "channel", not device. Certainly ALSA has mixing capabilities. PulseAudio is more into routing multiple sound pipelines, at least if my memory on the subject isn't too blurred.
I had to work with that stuff a while back and learned to appreciate the virtues of both systems alone and in combination.
I also developed a splitting headache because there's no idiot's guide to Linux sound document I know of that covers all the options (much less when you start adding MIDI
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Endless abstraction has its own costs too.
Re:--enable-alsa (Score:4, Interesting)
For now.. Supposedly, this is to be removed in the future.
Re:This is silly (Score:5, Informative)
ALSA works great. PulseAudio uses it for actual output. Most apps that output sound will use ALSO if PulseAudio isn't available. So the quickest way to fix most Linux audio problems is to uninstall PulseAudio.
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So the masculine version of ALSA works when Pulse doesn't?
Re:This is silly (Score:4, Funny)
ALSA headquarters [imgur.com]
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The ALSA code was subject to a number of bugs that they didn't have the resources to fix. They'll probably be more than welcome to accept your patches to fix the bugs
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Oh fuck off with your defensive attitude. This coder-centric kind of thinking is one factor why Firefox has been haemorrhaging market share.
Frankly, the only reason I am still on it is because it is the least bad browser. Attitudes like yours do not help.
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What bugs were those? In the years I've used firefox with pulse-free systems, I've never encountered any issues.
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While I quite like PulseAudio, does it even run on anything but ALSA? And would therefore maintaining the old ALSA-only codepath in parallel not be much of an imposition?
Qt and KDE replaced dependency on PulseAudio and GStreamer with Phonon (developed by KDE, and for a while part of Qt) because supporting multiple backends was a PITA and PulseAudio made it even worse.
Anyone in their right mind would not use PulseAudio - another bastard child of Poettering that he developed before systemd.
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Not OP, but I've had Pulse stop working on a box with long uptimes even though everything else in X worked fine.
I see no reason why software like this should stop working in the two months between sitting down at that console. A desire for that kind of reliability is why I went from a Microsoft desktop to a Linux desktop in the first place.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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You could say that about virtually every software library. Qt isn't required either. Unless you choose to use software that depends on it.
Firefox 52 works fine with ALSA (Score:5, Informative)
All you need is the --enable-alsa configure option. The resulting Firefox will prefer PulseAudio if it is present, but will use pure ALSA if it is not.
Re:Firefox 52 works fine with ALSA (Score:5, Informative)
--enable-alsa will go away in Firefox 54. And the build system of Firefox is insane, so you can't expect a regular user to recompile.
With PulseAudio being criminally broken (case in point: doesn't work on the box I sit my butt at right at the moment), the effect is that Firefox has no sound.
Gentoo Won't Notice (Score:3)
So if you're running Gentoo, the ebuilds should configure Firefox for you just like always, and you'll never notice this change. Or at least until version 54 when it really goes away and suddenly you're wondering why media-sound/pulseaudio is a required dependency for upgrading.
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I've come to the conclusion that there's only about 500 Linux desktop users in the WORLD who have PulseAudio problems. They're all the same people posting on forums about it.
Every other Linux desktop user uses the distro default which is usually PulseAudio, and it works.
KDE-based distros do not. They use GStreamer instead because of the hell that is PulseAudio.
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Are you talking about an alsalib wrapper that acts as a pulse client? It's not honest to compare that to the real deal. If this is the case then your problem is still pulse, not alsa itself. Remove pulse from your system and link mpg123 against the real alsa-lib and your problems should go away.
If alsa was truly having a problem on your system then pulse wrapped applications would still have issues too.
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Ah I see. Sorry. I asked the question at the beginning because it was unclear to me what you meant. The rest assumes you did indeed mean mpeg123 -> pulseaudio's alsalibwrapper -> pulse -> alsa kernel config. I suggested trying mpg123 -> real alsa-lib.
Perhaps the real problem is pulse's alsa wrapper. Mozilla's solution should be to call the real alsa-lib instead when using alsa and libcanberra(?) when using pulse.
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It wasn't before... Now it is. For a tiny bit of code that takes 0 effort to keep. It's not like alsa-lib has changed much in years.
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Your time estimate ignores the redevelopment of the workflow he created around firefox over the years..
Firechrome (Score:5, Insightful)
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Except Chrome doesn't require PulseAudio. So you're getting exactly what you want in Mozilla choosing their own path.
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Feature? (Score:5, Funny)
Note for people bothered by the incessant chattering of auto-play content in their browser, this could be a feature and not a bug!!
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This. For video and audio on the web, there are much better tools. I basically youtube-dl | mplayer so I can watch the fscking video instead of watching a browser. I'm old enough to remember sharing fun videos online before Youtube, and I guess we can all go back to a decent web again.
Als[ao], those who do not understand ALSA (with dmix) are doomed to reimplement it, poorly.
Good luck with that, I just won't upgrade anymore (Score:2)
Sadly for production boxes this was the decision the moment we realized they stopped support for NPAPI plugins. And more people on slashdot did the same... https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
This isn't the way to go but really we've had enough aggravation with old certificates, unsupported encryption algorithms and so on. Just give me the yes, I really want to run this and leave me alone. Noooo, users are too stupid to be trusted, they'll click anything. I'm on 192.168. or 10. for f*k sake!
Well users are too
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My pet peeve -- all the IPMI management consoles whose SSL causes firefox/chrome to refuse to even allow you to request to ignore the weak encryption, then the java console access applets which new versions of Java refuse to let you load.
All of our IPMI interfaces are connected via a physically separate network, which only a single locked-down machine has access to. It ends up being quicker to open a ticket to ask someone down in the DC go touch the hardware instead of trying to manage some things remotely
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Or you could take the hit once and spend half a day writing a script that requests certificates from LetsEncrypt and pushes them to your IPMI controllers. These days, there really is no good excuse for lack of proper certificates other than either laziness or using really poorly designed consumer-grade hardware. Even ancient enterprise-grade hardware has always had support for installing custom certificates. It's really not that difficult, and it even makes your network a little more secure. How much more s
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If the problem was certificates, we would've pushed new certificates. It's the ancient SSL/TLS implementations that are the problem.
I agree that IPMI controllers, in general, don't have their security well-implemented. That's the whole reason we have a physically isolated network for the IPMI traffic in the first place.
Everyone is doing it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Everyone is doing it (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if "produces no sound on hardware where plain ALSA works perfectly" counts as winning for you.
Re:Everyone is doing it (Score:5, Interesting)
It's LennartCode. As long as it works on his machine and at least 90% of machines out there, it's going to be adopted. Kind of like systemd. I'm only a hater because there's a severe problem on my laptop which I can't debug and no one has been able to offer any advice on.
Now I'm not one to easily take offence (despite what many here seem to think), but THIS is offensive:
https://www.freedesktop.org/wi... [freedesktop.org]
Quoth the page:
"As PulseAudio forms part of what is typically preferred to as the plumbing layer of Linux userspace, it is a non-trivial job to integrate it fully to form a complete system. This is why we strongly encourage you to go via your distribution whenever possible."
When did hell did Linux become a "fuck you don't touch the innards" system?
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When did hell did Linux become a "fuck you don't touch the innards" system?
You probably meant "fuck you, don't touch the Lennart" I presume?
Let's compromise. I think we can *all* agree on: "fuck you, don't touch Lennart's innards"
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"As PulseAudio forms part of what is typically preferred to as the plumbing layer of Linux userspace, it is a non-trivial job to integrate it fully to form a complete system. This is why we strongly encourage you to go via your distribution whenever possible."
A clear sign of an over-complex system: one which even programmers and sysadmins are advised to not touch.
Mozilla is trying to push Pale Moon adoption (Score:3, Interesting)
PulseAudio, systemd (Score:2)
That Lennart Poettering guy is on a roll
[ducks and takes cover from the brigades with pitchforks, torches and flamethrowers]
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Don't forget avahi, another brilliant masterpiece of software engineering. /s
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Next from "Poettering Labs", previously known as Redhat...... PoetterIX, All the software you've come to love, all rolled into one (previously known as Redhat/Debian) /s
(or *am* I being sarcastic?? wait and see....)
Fragmentation is good for Linux distributions (Score:2)
Fake news... (Score:2, Informative)
This is simply not true:
Quite obviously, ALSA remains an option...
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It absolutely is true. ALSA is no longer an option in official or standard builds, and Mozilla does not support custom builds.
Even if they were supported, making custom builds of Firefox every time there's an update would be a waste of time, and sticking with a single custom build would be a foolish security risk. Easier and safer to switch browsers.
Also, Mozilla is planning to remove the compile-time option completely in Firefox 54, breaking ALSA systems even in custom builds.
Bye
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And always has been...
But why is it up to anyone — why would you use an open-source application without compiling it yourself?
Switched to PulseAudio today - here's my story (Score:2, Interesting)
When I was hired at my current employer in 2012, I got a Thinkpad T-series laptop. I installed Debian Squeeze with the XFCE desktop environment on it, and it worked beautifully. I dist-upgraded that installation to Wheezy when that release was made. No problems, everything just continued working. After Wheezy became oldstable, I dist-upgraded to Jessie. No problems, everything just continued working. A few months ago, I switched to a Skylake-powered desktop machine, simply by transferring all the data on th
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Sorry, if I can avoid Poetterix-contamination, I will.
Re:Switched to PulseAudio today - here's my story (Score:5, Insightful)
So you equate your rather limited usecase and expectations with everyone elses needs, call them whiners, and then top it off with a nice appeal to antiquity fallacy.
Great.
Re:Switched to PulseAudio today - here's my story (Score:4, Informative)
Your anecdote is pretty, but irrelevant. We already know that PulseAudio works for some people. It does not work for everyone.
(I am genuinely happy to know that this part of your life is easy, though.)
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My stereo headset becomes the active, default output once I plug it in, and the speakers assume that role as soon as I unplug it.
Back in the day, this used to be a hardwired thing, using tiny switch elements in the socket. In my current systems, the ALSA driver presents an auto-mute feature for when you plug in the headset. (The headset will go mute again when you unplug it, using a different kind of magic.) Now if you need a userspace daemon to do this, does it mean the kernel driver should become a lot simpler?
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Yeah, we did, because users apparently need Firefox to play sound.
Now we need to figure out why some of our systems are bogging down or completely freezing.
I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, but you might have reversed the words "effin' works"...
Re:Switched to PulseAudio today - here's my story (Score:5, Informative)
Bottom line, I guess: PulseAudio in 2017 _just effin' works_.
Just effin' works? You gotta' be effin' kiddin' me.
Pulse is _barely acceptable_ if you ONLY deal with stereo.
If you're using 5.1, or better yet, 7.1, you are sooooo fucked.
1. Pulseaudio has "enable_remixing" enabled by default.
This effectively ruins stereo content when played back on surround hardware. It sends L to L, SL, BL, and C. It sends R to R, SR, BR, and C. Do you see the problem here? C=L+R.
Bonus, it will also synthesize a LFE channel for you. LFE=L+R lowpassed at 200hz.
This can be disabled in the config file. I've never seen any pulseaudio manager with an option for it.
2. ZERO of the about 40 linux games which support surround in my steam library actually work properly in 7.1. (This might be steam runtime's fault). It invents channels that don't exist in a 7.1 configuration. Instead of SL and SR, there is a Front-Left-of-Center and, Front-Right-of-Center.
If remixing is disabled, you will have no output on SL and SR. If remixing is enabled, you will have incorrect output on SL and SR (A mix of the front and rear channels).
3. If you're trying to set up 5.1 over optical SPDIF, may god have mercy on your soul. Good luck getting it to output 5.1 DTS. I was only ever able to get stereo, but I hear it's doable.
Mozilla further alienates it's user base (Score:2, Insightful)
Mozilla is largely used by tech-savvy people. I use it because I can mod the living daylights out of it, from about:config, to the way it acts, looks, performs using on-baord tweaks or add-ons. No other browser allows this level of customisation. Mozilla are losing users because they cannot leave well enough alone.
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Mozilla is largely use to be used by tech-savvy people. I use it because I can mod the living daylights out of it, from about:config, to the way it acts, looks, performs using on-baord tweaks or add-ons. No other browser allows this level of customisation. Mozilla are losing users because they cannot leave well enough alone.
FTFY. With changes Mozilla is making, they are quickly killing their long time user-base. By FF57 they will have probably 50% of their current users.
I've been a long fan of Firefox due to the TabGroups (Panorama) functionality. FF57 will see an end to that as the new API that the add-ons must use can't support it. Add on to that the massive memory/cpu bloating that has gone on lately, and Firefox is being replaced more and more with Chrome.
Firefox 52 has audio in Windows XP (Score:2)
I'd pay cash money for a browser without sound. (Score:2)
Another nail in the coffin for Firefox (Score:2)
Pulseaudio is nortiously linux-specific. We've had nothing but trouble trying to use it on BSD and switched to ALSA (which is a lot more reliable on BSDs) a year or two ago for that reason.
I guess that's the end of Firefox's portability. Most of our users use Chromium anyway because Firefox has been so unstable and crash-prone. Long live Chromium?
-Matt
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haha. notoriously that is. Damn laptop keyboard.
-Matt
Good (Score:2)
That makes it even easier to make sure that websites can't make noise at me.
Actions speak louder than words. (Score:5, Interesting)
Mozilla developers planned this last year, and when watchful users objected in the related issue [mozilla.org], Mozilla staff closed it to comments. They then pushed the system-breaking change to the world, with no mention of it in the release notes [archive.org]. When users whose systems were broken said so in a bug report [mozilla.org], Mozilla closed it to comments, too.
I understand the need to minimize clutter in bug reports, but by taking away the only existing channel for users to engage with decision-makers, Mozilla is effectively sticking their fingers in their ears and telling their community to suck it up. How ironic that this was done by Mozilla's engineering community manager. How telling that his public comment invited people to email him to discuss it directly (making himself look good on record), yet he has completely ignored email messages sent to him in the days since then.
I always thought that one of the open source community's greatest strengths was our dedication to helping one another. When I write free software, and encourage people to use and depend on it in their daily lives, I take care to avoid causing unnecessary problems for them in future updates, even if their needs are different from my own. If I do cause such a problem and a bunch of them take the time to identify and report it, I see that as a sign that I made a mistake, I take responsibility for my actions, and I return their favor by spending a bit of time reworking my design.
I do this work partly for personal satisfaction in creating quality software, and partly because I don't like jerking people around, but mostly because I know that my time donated to the community is repaid indirectly, through all the contributions those people make to other open source projects. One of them might be writing the documentation for my favorite version control system, another might be using unusual hardware that exposes an OS bug that I'll need fixed next year, and others might have donated money or suggested a good design idea to projects that make my life easier in some other way. I give a little in the short term, and in return, I receive a lot in the long term.
This ecosystem of diverse and indirect contributions works amazingly well. I don't believe we would have Firefox, Chrome, MacOS (remember its Mach & BSD roots?), Android, Linux, or hundreds of thousands of other wonderful things if not for people in different situations helping one another like this.
So, when developers of a project like Firefox shut out a cross-section of the community that made their jobs possible and from whom they will almost certainly continue to benefit over time, it seems greedy to me. When they deliberately break the systems of the people whom they encouraged to depend on their software, especially when it's something so integral to daily life as the web browser, it seems irresponsible to me. And when onlookers choose disrupt the ensuing discussions by slinging useless comments like "freeloader" or "works for me" at other community members despite receiving value every day from this same community, they seem like hypocritical trolls.
I think we can do better than this. The open source community thrives on diversity and collaboration. Firefox can be replaced, but if we become another monoculture of self-absorbed know-it-alls, we all will have lost an asset of immeasurable value.
tl;dr: Dear Mozilla, you're doing it wrong.
patch for Firefox 52 - Fedora (Score:3)
download the source code
install in build directory
edit SOURCES/firefox-mozconfig
add
+ ac_add_options --disable-pulseaudio
+ ac_add_options --enable-alsa
delete
- ac_add_options --enable-pulseaudio
- ac_add_options --disable-alsa
build the firefox local rpm
remove distribution version of firefox and install local version of firefox
repeat after each update of firefox
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The list is not exhaustive. Obviously literal cancer is also cancer.
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Except he had nothing to do with this decision. It was chosen by the people who actually work on Firefox. If you had stepped up to help fix the ALSA bugs they ran in to then this wouldn't have happened. But you freeloaders in the peanut gallery do nothing but whine.
Re:Soon you will all suffer! (Score:4, Interesting)
How exactly will using PulseAudio fix bugs that're due to ALSA, when it is also a client of ALSA? Surely if the bugs were in the system, and not the client, then Firefox-on-PulseAudio would be exactly as failsome as Firefox-on-ALSA.
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Re:Soon you will all suffer! (Score:4)
The bugs are in the ALSA backend of Firefox, not in ALSA itself. The backend was apparently unmaintained for some time and now instead of fixing it they want to drop it.
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I asked "exactly", and you answer with handwaving about some other library altogether. I suppose the answer is "it doesn't", then.
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It's handwaving, because you give no reason the workaround couldn't be implemented in Firefox as well.
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I got sick of crowbarring jackd into running as a system daemon like it used to until it copied PulseAudio, and didn't really need realtime in most places, so I just configured ALSA's dmix so I don't have to wade through byzantine mazes of lame INI style configs to stop Pulse from adjusting volume for inane reasons.
Browser shopping is not something I've been looking forward to, sigh.
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You do realise you're talking bollocks, right? Pulse runs on top of jack, and will happily make way for it.
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Yeah because switching from c++ to some hipster interpreted/bytecode garbage is going to fix everything.
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alsa-lib hasn't changed much in a very long time.. afaik, even the ABI has been stable since 1.0.0. Linux audio problems come from the foisting of pulse on users by major distros.