London Terrorist Used WhatsApp, UK Calls For Backdoors (yahoo.com) 360
Wednesday 52-year-old Khalid Masood "drove a rented SUV into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge before smashing it into Parliament's gates and rushing onto the grounds, where he fatally stabbed a policeman and was shot by other officers," writes the Associated Press. An anonymous reader quotes their new report:
Westminster Bridge attacker Khalid Masood sent a WhatsApp message that cannot be accessed because it was encrypted by the popular messaging service, a top British security official said Sunday. British press reports suggest Masood used the messaging service owned by Facebook just minutes before the Wednesday rampage that left three pedestrians and one police officer dead and dozens more wounded.... Home Secretary Amber Rudd used appearances on BBC and Sky News to urge WhatsApp and other encrypted services to make their platforms accessible to intelligence services and police trying to carrying out lawful eavesdropping. "We need to make sure that organizations like WhatsApp -- and there are plenty of others like that -- don't provide a secret place for terrorists to communicate with each other," she said...
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
Rudd also urged technology companies to do a better job at preventing the publication of material that promotes extremism. She plans to meet with firms Thursday about setting up an industry board that would take steps to make the web less useful to extremists.
no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the same lady who thinks that they need to hire the people who "know the right hashcodes to fight terrorists."
She has no place conjecturing on the usefulness of the free web to a potted plant, let alone to extremists (whose membership increasingly include Western government officials)
Re: no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. Boo hoo lady, you didn't get to hear the terrorist's message. Thank god for that. Had you heard his message it might corrupt you into accepting his martyrdom. The whole point of terrorism is that they can't go to war or they will lose, so they attack us in hopes that we will make more restrictive laws and this lady is taking the bait.
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they attack us in hopes that they can destroy us
Fixed that for you.
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Or worse, she is an agent :D
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they attack us in hopes that we will make more restrictive laws
Well, not exactly. Getting crypto banned isn't the end-game of Islamic terrorism, but yes, it is more about the response than the body-count.
Schneier wrote an excellent piece on this topic: "What the Terrorists Want". [schneier.com]
Re: no thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
YES! If more people are dying from stepladders than terrorists, then YES we should focus on stepladders.
I understand that you are scared shitless of the word "terrorist" and not of "stepladder" but that doesn't make the latter's deaths any less important than the formers.
Ideally we wouldn't have ANY deaths but let's work our way down the true most wanted list, not up it from the bottom.
Re: no thanks (Score:2, Insightful)
They'll also stop terrorizing if you reduce the countries that harbor them to sub-atomic particles.
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They'll also stop terrorizing if you reduce the countries that harbor them to sub-atomic particles.
So in last week's case, we should have nuked London? twat Terrorist != Foreigner
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Citation Needed.
I can assure you, that if it was "Right Wing Christians Nationalists" every CNN, NBC and NewYorkTimes piece would announce it, in BIG BOLD HEADLINES!!!!
Every terrorist attack, you can see the "Lets not jump to conclusions, this could be right wing terror ... and then it turns out to be another Muslim Jihadi nutjob.
I remember the Pulse Nightclub, initial reports were "RIGHT WING!!!!!" ... and nope.
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We have way bigger problems than suicide bombers. If you want to go after suicide killers, ban smoking.
What? Smokers are suicide killers. They kill themselves and others who happen to stand nearby. Why is one ok and the other one scares you shitless?
Maybe if we put warning labels on bombs you're less afraid?
"Detonating this can endanger your life and the life of those around you"
Feeling better already?
Private speech should be considered a human right (Score:4, Funny)
Re: no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
What we really need is that car rentals be banned outright.
Never again would anyone be able to rent a car to run people down in the street.
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They might try blocking. WhatsApp could in return implement domain fronting, like Signal does, and they might have to block more than they like: https://whispersystems.org/blo... [whispersystems.org]
Why the focus on communication tech? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why the focus on the communication technology? Its role in these sorts of incidents seems minor compared to the effect and involvement of vehicular technology. It wasn't chat software causing the physical harm; it was vehicles.
Re: Why the focus on communication tech? (Score:2, Interesting)
+1 car and truck manufacturers need to put protections in place so that extremists cant use their vehicles.
Why should we have to go to the airport to be strip searched and scanned for weapons and explosives ? Our cars can be doing that to us every time we get in !! Problem solved
Also it would be useful if manufacturers put in a backdoor so that after all extremists are neutralized we can go after the politically inconvenient
J/k the only thing needing a backdoor is govt , so we can sneak in some rational thi
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I'll bet he didn't prepay the Congestion Charge when he decided to drive into central London, leaving his family on the hook for it. That's just rude. Pollution has a cost, you know.
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Why the focus on the communication technology?
Because it is so easy to abuse without getting caught. Remember that most governments that hold elections consider their own population as the biggest threat to the current regime. This Amber Rudd person is just parroting what that creepy James Comey guy says, claiming that tapping all communications will end terrorism. It won't. According to the article the message was sent "just minutes" before the attack. That means that even if there was magical instant interception, the attack would have already been h
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The security services now expect everyone to have a digital device and use it.
Communication technology is what had the over time, funding, the expansion in staff, political support and contracts for new methods.
So the security services are now all ready for the methods they saw the Soviet Union use or that got used in Ireland
Communication technology took funding
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I would like to see one shred of evidence that having so-called backdoors would have prevented the London tragedy.
Maybe if some wacko Eagle Eye supercomputer [imdb.com] were monitoring and evaluating all communications at all times in real-time, maybe something could be sniffed out, and on that day we shall all bow down to our robot overlords. Until then, you're talking about creating a mile-high haystack of data, and hiring humans to eaves-drop and search through it day and night for a needle. I mean, politicians r
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... he's the reason the storm-troopers in riot gear tore your house down, zip-tied your family and shot your goldfish, only to find your 10-year-old pulling pranks on his iPad.
Won't someone think of the goldfish?
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Aren't we attempting to nearly be there with locations like NSA's Utah Data Center, Fort Meade, and similar places? And isn't data already being collected at a faster rate than we have resources to process it in real time?
Almost certainly... because collection is the easy, achievable part of mass surveillance. Politically, you just win because your obstacles are only (1) funding and (2) privacy advocates, which you label as non-patriotic USA-hating ACLU nuts so that you win politically whether or not you lose to them in court. The funding just goes to buying the latest and greatest, and you can toot your success with metrics like terrabytes captured-per-second, and all the spooks love you and support you and protect you and
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The police have already publicly declared that they think that this terrorist worked alone.
That means there's no chance that the encrypted WhatsApp message that they found on his phone is relevant in any significant way to their enquiries.
This is just another illigitimate political attempt to gain power without understanding how encryption works.
Amber Rudd is dim (Score:5, Interesting)
She's simply the latest of a long line of British ministers who don't really understand the first thing about the Internet and its associated technologies.
Hilariously, in the same interview she claimed that Google was at fault because it was far to easy to find ‘stabbing instructions’ online.
Re:Amber Rudd is dim (Score:5, Insightful)
The shear stupidity is mind-boggling. In the very same sentence she acknowledges that there are many other similar apps. Surely she must be aware that they are not all under UK jurisdiction...
This sounds very much like she has been briefed by security services looking for more powers and/or to create the impression that people who use encryption are up to no good. Seeing an opportunity to look tough and be seen to be doing something she repeats the words without understanding what they mean, or how stupid she looks.
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I'm sure she is fully aware there are other apps not covered by UK laws. All that will happen is that it will become illegal to use those apps without back doors and anyone suspected of extremist views will eventually be checked to see if they are using them. If so, they will be arrested and charged before they plow through a crowd of people or whatever. It isn't a hard problem to solve.
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Are you being sarcastic or stupid? I can't really tell.
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The shear stupidity is mind-boggling. In the very same sentence she acknowledges that there are many other similar apps. Surely she must be aware that they are not all under UK jurisdiction...
It has occurred to me that these folks willing to die to get in the headlines might not use a site for their last words if they believed it to be openly compromised by the State.
Some of us already believe the State is listening to whatever it can, for our safety and all that, so I suppose it's possible Amber Rudd and her counterparts already have a way into the mainstream social platforms... yet are forced to plead otherwise in public.
Re:Amber Rudd is dim (Score:5, Informative)
I believe you meant "sheer stupidity"
"Shear stupidity" would be running with scissors.
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Given the comment about "stabbing instructions"...
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For me, the most disappointing thing in the whole debate is how poor the media are at challenging these ideas when our political classes come up with them. I've seen several interviews and panel discussions in recent months where even the presenters or "expert" guests essentially start from the premise that yes, obviously we have to do these things to keep everyone safe, and then spend the next several minutes bike-shedding instead of exploring the big issues. Just once, I would like a high-profile, well-re
Scapegoating (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now its looking pretty bad for the intellectual elite over there.
- He was screened by police several times
- Made an extremist while in her magisty's pleasure
And now the police are saying "If we read *that message* of him saying 'god be with me', *then* they would know what he was upto and what he was doing".
Looks more like they're trying to find a scape goat.
Good laws should be technology neutral (Score:2)
What laws would they change if it was revealed 'the terrists' were communicating via snail mail.
Would they require logs of your snail mail metadata, ban envelopes ?
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Ms Rudd already covered that:
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Of course, he's dead, so it's not going to be very helpfull.
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I really should have rtfa, but there is a difference between mass surveillance and targeted surveillance.
The old school surveillance was targeted, because it just didnt make sense to waste all that manpower. Now that its cheaper to do mass-surveillance.
As a society we have to accept target surveillance (unfortunetly), but software cant be back-doored with any guarantee that it will be only used in targeted surveillance.
Mass surveillance will always be immoral, because its punishing the innocent to try and p
Re:Good laws should be technology neutral (Score:5, Interesting)
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So stupidity was not unknown after all in the greatest generation.
Jean has a long mustache. There is a fire at the insurance agency. Wounds my heart with a monotonous languor. From Camille to Amicha: Six friends will find out that she bites tonight. Athalie stands in extasis. We repeat twice: Athalie stands in extasis.
The first four notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. duh-duh-duh-duuuuuuuuh.
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So apparently the problem is too much free speech and too much privacy.
To get our intellectual freedom back, we're going to need a movement as powerful as the civil rights movement. Saying this stupid shit should be as taboo as saying a racial slur! This "Amber Rudd" needs to be made an example of. Really rake her over the coals. "You're advocating what?" "Why do you hate freedom?"
Re:Good laws should be technology neutral (Score:5, Informative)
What laws would they change if it was revealed 'the terrists' were communicating via snail mail.
Would they require logs of your snail mail metadata, ban envelopes ?
Well in the US the USPS actually does log all mail meta-data. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_Isolation_Control_and_Tracking [wikipedia.org]
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No, they already do that. Send a 100 dollar bill in an envelope without insurance and see if your letter makes it.
I've done that before when I was out of checks and wanted to send someone a graduation present. It made it unscathed. To be honest, I'd rather have someone steal my cash than a check since the account number on the check literally gives them a blank check to steal money from my account.
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What kind of bank do you use that would allow unauthorized withdrawals just for knowing an account number? Have you thought of switching to a real bank?
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What kind of bank do you use that would allow unauthorized withdrawals just for knowing an account number? Have you thought of switching to a real bank?
Every bank. At least every USA bank -- thanks to "eChecks", the fraudster doesn't even need to use a laser printer and create a paper check like they used to. All they need is the account information that's printed on every check.
And note that depending on your bank and local laws, you may have only 30 days to report a fraudulent check drawn against your account or you may have no recourse at all.
Brilliant! (Score:5, Insightful)
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This guy was already being investigated. So when they find they cannot get into an app or whatever presumably by sniffing packets from his IP address, they simply arrest him before he kills people.
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And if a majority of all messages exchanged online in the world were encrypted? Would they arrest a majority of all the citizens of the world?
Yeah but now everyone with that app (Score:2)
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Use the GCHQ as it did in Ireland. Collect everything, sort and act on the information gathered.
It took Ireland a while to work out why its support from the USA was not flowing as well as expected and the US east coast actions of the UK government.
Offers to change sides got made to most people of interest to the UK.
That needed helicopters, car tracking, telephone tracking, voice prints, people who could work in Ireland and not be noticed in any local community.
The problem fo
Move to Paradise (Score:3)
North Korea.
F@co off - solve the problem... (Score:2)
...not the symptoms.
Crypto everywhere.
I'm puzzled. (Score:4, Interesting)
When I use WhatsApp through my phone, it shows the history of my conversations. Presumably the police have recovered Masoods phone, can use one of the numerous ways to get into it, and can thus see what messages he sent over WhatsApp and to whom.
In short, why the hell can't Plod read Masoods last words over WhatsApp? Also if they knew he used WhatsApp, that shows they have either broken into his phone already or picked up some data from his ISP already.
Further, the latest UK Investigatory Powers Act regarding security only wanted metadata, not content, and a great deal of effort was spent convincing the general public that this was all that is needed.
So my question is, is my view of the situation wrong or is Amber Rudd technologically clueless?
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So metadata would be very useful.
BTW, I use Signal and when in a Five Eyes nation it is over VPN.
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Action to
Fuck you, no. (Score:2)
Subject line says it all.
Pure BS from the security services again. (Score:5, Insightful)
He had been investigated years ago, but cleared by the security services.
So:
1. Either they want to monitor everybody's communications, or
2. They are lying about the effect of having access to WhatsApp messages, or
3. This is just another excuse to monitor everyone's communications.
I believe that western civilization is in the process (if it hasn't already happened) of being taken over by the security apparatus, under the pretext of "protecting" us (in the same was as "devout muslims" "protect" their women by making them wear veils.
It's all about control under the guise of "protection". As I type that, I realize that it sounds just like the mafia.
Turn it around (Score:2, Interesting)
Say I'm living in a repressive society. I NEED to destroy or kill government officials to live free.
If I am unable to communicate, then I am left nude with no recourse alone and helpless.
If I can communicate, I can form a revolution, I can change society for the better and improve all of our lives.
We cannot destroy our freedom of expression
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
The terrorist killed 3 people. There are billions
Not About Decryption (Score:3)
Of course then terrorists just switch to encrypted radios. Which will imply it will be illegal for non-military to own such devices.
Is this the world we want?
Surveillance doesn't prevent terrorism (Score:3)
It is now common knowledge that all western governments have so many way to monitor people that it is offensive for them to suggest they need more powers to have more surveillance. That western powers spread their nets so far across our "democracy" and not in a focused manner means they are obviously ineffective in filling their mandate of protecting the people from terrorist threats. And because they are so ineffectual against terrorism they use that as justification to spread their net even wider.
So let us all not pretend that the state has any concern for stopping terrorism because terrorism has no impact on the state, it only impact the populous. If terrorism occurs then that just adds another reason for clamping down on the populous even more. We are being treated with the contempt we deserve for not steadfastly protecting democracy.
For decades Islamic human rights violations went ignored by western powers so any pandering to stopping extremism should be viewed as the bullshit it is. Islamic extremism is a good reason for the state to become even more overt in its quest to police the state because power begets power. And that's good for business because they are who pay for the politicians to operate the inverted totalitarian state we live in.
Re:Surveillance doesn't prevent terrorism (Score:4, Insightful)
Especially in this case. From the summary:
British press reports suggest Masood used the messaging service owned by Facebook just minutes before the Wednesday rampage that left three pedestrians and one police officer dead and dozens more wounded..
Even if he had sent in plaintext "GONNA DRIVE THROUGH A CROWD OF PEOPLE AND KILL AS MANY AS I CAN!!!" minutes before doing so, how could they have stopped him? Hell, he could have called police and told them explicitly where he was and what he was doing, maybe even sent a live video feed from his phone while he was doing it.
Security theatre.
Maybe... (Score:2)
...they shouldn't have shot him dead then? He was only armed with a knife at that point, and while clearly an extremely dangerous and murderous person, didn't actually need to have been shot three times in the chest in order to stop him.
I'm not suggesting that the police officer who fired on him acted in anything other than the way he was trained to, but if he was still alive, we could have asked him what on earth he thought he was up to. I'd expect that he'd just turn out to be a nutcase, who would have f
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No offense, but your incredible ignorance on the proper use of deadly force is mind blowing.
He was "only" armed with a knife - a knife is a dangerous deadly weapon that routinely kills people. There's a reason that US based law enforcement will shoot the hell out of you if you have a knife and charge them, and come within 21 feet. See Tueller Drill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
And how do you know he didn't need to be shot 3 times in the chest? The proper technique when using deadly force to defend y
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Amber Rudd. Of all the idiots on this planet (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, she's Britain's answer to Sarah Palin. Or rather, an answer to a question nobody asked.
And while Palin is at least a looker, Rudd also has this "used car" air about her. This woman has so far in her total career never said a single sentence that wasn't a tear-soaked platitude, an "outraged demand" that simply echoed what everyone else has already been saying or simply and plainly stupid. I really have no idea what service she could provide other than being the bad example on how NOT to do something.
Seriously. When asked at her funeral to say anything good about her, all you can sensibly say is "she died".
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Not allowing white genocide is not an option.
So the only alternative is freedom dying, so we can let it proceed without too many trucks and cars of peace incidents upsetting the natives. Onwards to the brown pacified total surveillance future.
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Religion is a disease.
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No raped women or gay men have been stoned to death in this country in the 100 odd years since the first mosque was built. If Muslims are planning to impose Sharia Law on us Brits, they're taking a very long time about it.
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Re: No need for backdoors (Score:2, Interesting)
"23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrahâ"from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the citiesâ"and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lotâ(TM)s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." - Genesis 19:23-26
"He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Torch
Re:No need for backdoors (Score:5, Interesting)
::cough:: I'll just leave this here... ::cough::
1,400 raped children in the UK by Muslim pedo ring while the UK police looked the other way to "not seem racist." (That's not even exaggerating.)
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-eng... [bbc.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I guess ignorance really is bliss.
Re:No need for backdoors (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course the problem there was not lack of always-on monitoring of everyone in the off chance the police nothing something.
The problem was not encryption of private information.
The problem was leftist control of a council where them hamstrung themselves so tightly that they were ignoring child rape
cases in case they offended a minority group, some of whom were actively raping children..
And yet not one single one of those in positions of power who let this continue to happen are in prison, nor ever likely will be.
Because, you know, they are 'sorry', for allowing children to keep being violently raped.
But no, what we need is more cameras, less privacy, more government control - who cares what they DO with it.
Re:No need for backdoors (Score:4, Insightful)
How many rapes by catholic priests and society looked the other way? Not that I am saying that this is any kind of excuse...
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Honour killings are not limited to Muslim countries or Muslims.
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One does not have to be an Islamophobe to be repulsed by killing, whether done in the name of honour or otherwise.
Re: No need for backdoors (Score:3, Insightful)
The lesson learnt from the IRA was quite clear. Violence begats only more violence. It is only the call to cooperate to end that violence that is the solution. There is a type of person, aggressive and slow witted, that will commit atrocities in the name of. The name doesn't matter, it could be a religion, or a warped philosophy, or a country. When you speak out in aggression, your blind hatred plain to see, it is obvious that you are part of the problem, not the solution.
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What's the real difference between a religion and any other belief system like nazism, communism or neoconservatism?
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The dogma is not taken to be divinely inspired.
Even in a country like China the communist party has passed resolutions criticizing parts of Mao's leadership, it only took decades. In Islam we're millennia on and it would still earn you a death penalty.
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Re:Since when (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe Khalid was a British citizen. That's why he's allowed "in the UK". The bigger question is why aren't the British (and the Americans for that matter) insisting that new citizens (including their children) become CITIZENS of that country in heart and soul, not just a piece of paper with allegiance back to terrorist orgs/states, islamic or otherwise. But if we attempt to even say that, the snowflakes start yelling RAYCYST!!@#!
How would you do that? Is there some scanner that can look into one's heart and soul?
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The heretics were much worse. Fortunately we were able to kick the most extreme elements of those out of the country to the western colonies, who are now called the USA.
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At what age do you propose people make some commitment to the UK? A few minutes after they are born? At 5 years old? 15? Note that Khalid was born in the UK.
Or perhaps your proposal is that the UK create an underclass of people wh
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The bigger question is why aren't the British (and the Americans for that matter) insisting that new citizens (including their children) become CITIZENS of that country in heart and soul
And how would you define what being "British in heart and soul" is? I think a lot of people that feel pretty genuinely British even though they don't eat pork because they're vegetarians or vegans or don't drink or don't go to church or... And how would you test if people actually live "British" enough for you? And what would you do with a child born and raised in Britain that's too "un-British" but isn't a citizen of any other country? Imprison them? Send them to "reeducation camps"? Deport them? India for
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I know it when I see it, a Muslim ain't it.
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In his case he was born in the UK 52 years ago. He had a very British sounding name - Adrian Russell Elms. That suggests his family has been in the UK for even longer. He probably would have originally seemed British in 'Heart and Soul'. Seems he had a history of crime though, and had spent time in prison. From the sounds of it his conversion change of name and radicalisation happened during the time he spent in prison. So he was brainwashed and recruited, rather than being born that way.
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Is a VW golf an SUV?
It's not (though I think the Golf is called the Polo in the UK), but it's not clear why you're asking since the attacker was driving a rented Hyundai Tucson.
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Re:governments (Score:4, Informative)
.... urge governments to do a better job at preventing the immigration of populations that promotes extremism.
So what does immigration have to do with this particular British born animal?
Re:governments (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're actually serious about that question... I'll bite.
I'm a Muslim immigrant to Canada. I'm pretty secular now, but the idea that somehow you immigrate and then in the next generation, you're magically Canadian with Western values is just ignorant.
The culture matters. The numbers matter. The government policies matter.
Get enough people of a certain culture in an area and that culture and way of life becomes dominant. I guess if you thin being British/Canadian is just a piece of paper, then maybe this doesn't matter to you.
I have a lot of family in the UK. It really is a different world. Heck, I don't even go. I have family there 2nd/3rd generation where there is total gender segregation, always talk of Sharia...When new immigrants come, they settle around there to keep the community Islamic.This part is key... as you keep bringing in more people who settle there, it really keep the community a certain way. Once you hit a certain threshold, you're basically created a community that stands on its own with its own ideology.
This is not unique to Islam, by any stretch of the imagination.
You can talk to many Muslim immigrant families. Most will tell you the same thing. Well at least in my life, they have. When the community is small, integration is easy. My in-laws for example, came to Canada in the 70s. Hardly modern by any respect. My father-in-law thought nothing of buy someone a bottle of wine as a gift. He wouldn't drink himself. They're not that secular. My wife often complains that her family completely changed as more and more family was brought in. Few used to wear the hijab. Then everyone started and the social moral police started. Dating started to become more of a scandal if people found out a daughter was dating. Aunts who used to date and got married suddenly turned all religious and forbade their daughters from dating. Islamic school suddenly became a thing... People started wearing the niqab and marrying religious people from Asia. Yeah... now I have 2 silly segregated weddings this summer. lol.
This is the cultural problem. It is then layered with political issues. I don't really hang in dangerous circles, but I've seen what it can do. I know a few girls in the extended family who have actually talked positively of going to the Islamic State as that is real Islam. Yeah... girls born in Canada, but such are their values.
I don't blame this all on immigration. You can have high rates of immigration with the necessary social support. I can say that even in Canada, this social support is just not there. My high school was heavily
Indian immigrants. There was virtually no social support. Parents beating kids. Girls disowned for dating. Forced marriages... all happened.
It's just ridiculously ignorant to think none of this matter and because someone is born in Canada/Britain, nothing else matters.
Anyways, enough of a rant. You get the point. Immigration matters, community matters, culture matters, government policies matters...
I concur I saw a similar effect (Score:2)
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Re: governments (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey. I dont know if a sure fire way. But i leave the door open for good government policy to provide social support.
I could see things like social workers working closely with families. Not to take kids away from parents, but to help people parent. Maybe schools can provide services for things like kids threatened with being disowned or beat...
Also i think the general social environment should allow for discussion. Probably the one that annoys me most is that white people actively attack their right wing. Its not socially acceptable today to attack islams right wing. And i dont mean terrorism here. Just social things. I dont care about the hijab but i mean is it a thing to be celebrated? No where else do western people support slut shaming and female modesty dreas codes. Just treat immigrants with the same standards u expect of anyone else.
Re: (Score:3)
You can go into some "white" American suburb with a bunch of Muslim hate preachers and if - if! - you don't get tossed in prison immediately for running your dog-and-pony show, you'll get a conversion rate of less than .1% from normal citizen to terrorist idiot.
If we have learned anything from marketing: You have to match your message to the target group. Of course taking a muslim hate preacher to a white suburb won't work. It's hard to convince them that they are the scum of the earth.
If you want to convert people there into terrorists, you need to tell them ACA is bad for them, that lazy immigrants are stealing their jobs, any president could create jobs or any other staple of the white supremacists idiots and they will be willing to bomb blacks/jews/muslims or
Re: (Score:2)
Even that response doesn't make any sense, and is exactly the kind of cost that terrorists - to the extent that they even exist as a coherent force - want to visit upon their targets. What good would barriers have done? They'll just drive down a different street next time, it's not like London is suffering from a shortage of sidewalks crowded with pedestrians with a couple of lanes of traffic down the middle.
Re:Robert Plant Chimes In (Score:4, Informative)
Willie Dixon wrote it and Howlin' Wolf recorded it before either the Doors or Led Zeppelin were bands.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think you can get any more surveillance around that part of London.
Re:Worse than you think! (Score:4, Funny)
SUVs should be banned
If we arrest everyone driving SUVs, there'll be about 85% fewer twats on the road (gotta arrest BMW drivers too to get to 95%).
Sorry what was the problem?