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The Almighty Buck

April Jobs Report: 211,000 Jobs Added, Unemployment At 4.4 Percent (npr.org) 198

An anonymous reader shares an NPR report: The U.S. economy added 211,000 jobs to nonfarm payrolls in April, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says. Both the unemployment rate, at 4.4 percent, and the number of unemployed persons, at 7.1 million, saw only incremental changes in April. The new data follow disappointing results from March, when the Labor Department initially said less than 100,000 jobs were created. In April, some of the biggest job gains came in leisure and hospitality, health care and social assistance, financial activities, and mining, the agency says.
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April Jobs Report: 211,000 Jobs Added, Unemployment At 4.4 Percent

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  • by XXongo ( 3986865 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @10:43AM (#54360707) Homepage
    So, the unemployment news is "nothing particularly exceptional happened in the jobs and unemployment statistics this month, according to the Labor department".
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      No news is good news. The media tries to create as much hysteria as possible. So its good to have an occasional reminder that the general state of the country is on an even keel.
    • Re:Not really news (Score:4, Informative)

      by HiThere ( 15173 ) <charleshixsn@@@earthlink...net> on Friday May 05, 2017 @01:37PM (#54362137)

      It's much worse than that. The unemployment rate is a jiggered number. What's significant is the labor force participation rate. (I'm not sure what it's currently called.) The way unemployment is figured you can have been out of work for a year and not be counted. And if you see the labor force participation rate, try to determine what population that the figure is based on. And who gets counted as participating. (E.g., if an H1B worker is counted as participating, is he also counted as a part of the population used in calculating the rate.)

      Governments play all sorts of tricks with their economic numbers to make them look good. Even when the numbers are honest you can't trust them without looking at the details.

      • Funny that when people wrote this same thing during Obama's presidency they were flamed and trashed, modded down and ridiculed.

        Thank you for stating the truth.

      • Re:Not really news (Score:5, Informative)

        by Plus1Entropy ( 4481723 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @02:30PM (#54362671)

        It's not a "trick"... it's exactly how Unemployment is calculated, always: 100 * (# people with jobs) / (# people in the workforce). This is not a number that requires you to look at the details at all, just the most basic understanding of what the hell it actually means.

        To be in the "workforce" you have to be actively looking for a job (it's not just "after a year"). If you spend 3 years actively looking for a job but remain without one, you will still be counted as "in the workforce". If we didn't do this, then "Unemployment" would be calculated much higher than it really is, with all the children, people in school, stay-at-home parents, retirees, etc. who shouldn't be counted as part of the workforce.

        The Labor Participation Rate is a different number, with a different meaning, and is not a "replacement" or "better version" of Unemployment. In the same way GNP is not meant to "replace" GDP, they represent different (albeit related) things.

        • by chihowa ( 366380 )

          To be in the "workforce" you have to be actively looking for a job (it's not just "after a year").

          This is where the "trick" comes into play. How is this number determined and how reliable is that determination? You act as if determining this is as simple as determining the number of people who live in the country (which is still surprising difficult to actually pin down).

          If you spend 3 years actively looking for a job but remain without one, you will still be counted as "in the workforce".

          By what mechanism would this be accomplished? The last time I looked for a job, I didn't register that fact with the federal government. How would they reliably know how many people are looking for jobs?

      • Re:Not really news (Score:5, Informative)

        by Martin Blank ( 154261 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @02:44PM (#54362791) Homepage Journal

        You're partially right (you can have been out of work for ten years but if you were actively looking, you're considered to be unemployed), but underemployment numbers have been declining, too. The U-6 number is down to 8.6%, the lowest it's been since November 2007. The lowest it's been on record (going back to 1994) is October 2000, when it reached 6.8%. The unemployment rate (U-3) was 3.9% at that time; most economists consider employment around the 4%-4.5% range to be full without overheating the economy, and the Fed had raised interest rates by about a percentage point since mid-1999.

        Note: U-6 is defined as "Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force." Basically, everyone willing to work full time but not getting it. (Full time doesn't mean a single full-time job. If you work two part-time jobs that add up to 35 or more hours per week, you're considered a full-time worker.)

        And if you see the labor force participation rate, try to determine what population that the figure is based on. And who gets counted as participating. (E.g., if an H1B worker is counted as participating, is he also counted as a part of the population used in calculating the rate.)

        The LFPR is pretty clear on who is involved, though you need to understand a few definitions.

        • The LFPR is defined as "the labor force as a percent of the civilian noninstitutional population."
        • The civilian noninstitutional population is defined as "persons 16 years of age and older residing in the 50 states and the District of Columbia who do not live in institutions (for example, correctional facilities, long-term care hospitals, and nursing homes) and who are not on active duty in the Armed Forces."
        • The labor force is defined as "all persons classified as employed or unemployed in accordance with the definitions contained in [the BLS glossary]."
        • Employed persons are defined as "persons 16 years and over in the civilian noninstitutional population who, during the reference week, (a) did any work at all (at least 1 hour) as paid employees; worked in their own business, profession, or on their own farm, or worked 15 hours or more as unpaid workers in an enterprise operated by a member of the family; and (b) all those who were not working but who had jobs or businesses from which they were temporarily absent because of vacation, illness, bad weather, childcare problems, maternity or paternity leave, labor-management dispute, job training, or other family or personal reasons, whether or not they were paid for the time off or were seeking other jobs."
        • Unemployed persons are defined as "Persons aged 16 years and older who had no employment during the reference week, were available for work, except for temporary illness, and had made specific efforts to find employment sometime during the 4-week period ending with the reference week. Persons who were waiting to be recalled to a job from which they had been laid off need not have been looking for work to be classified as unemployed."

        I snipped the definitions slightly for space, but they're all at this BLS link [bls.gov] if you need more details.

        So the H1B worker is counted as participating, as is the illegal immigrant construction worker. It's all persons, not all citizens or all permanent residents. If you're 93 and retired, but living on your own and not looking for and not wanting a job, you're part of the civilian noninstitutional population, so you factor into the LFPR, but not into the unemployment or underemployment rates. If you're 15 and working a part-time job, you're not counted in the LFPR or employment or unemployment status.

        The LFPR, though, has a great deal of downward pressure on it from retiring Baby Boomers. That will level out eventually, and the LFPR may begin to climb as they die off, but the highest that it ever got was 67.3% in early 2000. Don't expect to see something above 70% unless there's a mass die-off of old people.

        • by HiThere ( 15173 )

          The official definitions sound good. Now, how do they determine those numbers? Population comes from census, and that is known to undercount certain groups. Sometimes drastically. But it's possible to estimate (without known error bars) by how much. Employed persons comes from withholding taxes, etc., and is probably the most accurate number in the batch...though even there there's double counting of some people and missing of others. So there are reasonable ways of estimating the Labor Force Particip

  • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @10:48AM (#54360747)
    What about the 92 million unemployed Americans who are waiting for new coal mining jobs?
  • by xanthines-R-yummy ( 635710 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @10:58AM (#54360793) Homepage Journal

    https://www.bls.gov/news.relea... [bls.gov]

    Yes, unemployment is open to interpretation and yes, there are different ways of presenting the data. The "usual" figure is U4, but for others U6 might be more meaningful. I think U6 is probably a better estimate, but that's just my opinion. What ISN'T my opinion is that no matter what number you use, unemployment is creeping downwards.

    • Oops, I meant U3 is the usual or official unemployment rate, not U4.

    • Here's what's stupid. Business owners have to report detailed payroll data at least every three months (small business) or more (monthly or weekly, depending on size and state). We could have explicit, accurate data with a simple SQL query. But instead we have a building full of people playing guessing games and sticking their thumbs (or worse) on the scale and producing what are basically flat-out fairy tales.

  • by ErikTheRed ( 162431 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @10:59AM (#54360795) Homepage

    U3 numbers are complete bullshit. Everybody who is paying even the slightest attention knows they are complete bullshit. They are so full of bullshit that they're not even useful for comparative / trending purposes. They have literally only two forms of utility: political propaganda, and targets of mockery. It doesn't matter if it's a Democratic administration or a Republican administration. Even U6 is extremely sketchy: surveys multiplied by guesswork.

    • U-3 tells you what kind of job-seeking competition is out there. As the available employment increases, U-4 discouraged workers would become U-3 active workers, slowing the fall of U-3. That mean U-3 tells you how competitive the job market is.

    • Actually it does matter what party the administration is. The BLS employs almost exclusively Democrats. There was not a single donation from a BLS employee to Donald Trump. This fact does not change depending on what party is in the White House.

  • by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @11:11AM (#54360857) Homepage Journal
    So happy to see these numbers. President Trump is a truly worthy successor to Lincoln and Reagan. Keep up the good work, sir!
    • by jareth-0205 ( 525594 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @11:28AM (#54360957) Homepage

      Pretty sure you're joking here, but since commenters are already taking you seriously I will just add that you can't put any job figures, good or bad, down to this administration yet. They have currently achieved nothing, no legislation, no budget, nothiiing. Any changes now are leftover from whatever was already happening.

    • by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @11:39AM (#54361031)

      So happy to see these numbers. President Trump is a truly worthy successor to Lincoln...

      How dare you compare Trump to a loser who couldn't even stop the Civil War! Sad! You need to compare him to a real winner like Andrew Jackson, a man so great that he was able to motivate people and get them moving all across the country!

  • by Anonymous Coward

    We really need to stop with this U3 garbage. It is a meaningless number. It was contrived for the sole purpose of LYING to the American People about the health of the economy. Here are some economical chickens that Trump is going to bring home to roost:

    #1 It is being projected that there will be more than 8,000 retail store closings in the United States in 2017, and that will far surpass the former peak of 6,163 store closings that we witnessed in 2008.

    #2 The number of retailers that have filed for bankrupt

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      1) Retail is dead. Probably has more to do with Amazon than anything else. I can go to Amazon, pay less, have it delivered than get it locally at the neighborhood store. Hell, I'm buying more and more stuff via Amazon simply to save money.

      2) is a repeat of #1

      3) is a repeat of #1

      4) Atlanta FED is only one, and may be "regional". Since you didn't post a source, I don't know.

      5) In my area, restaurants are booming business. I suspect that will change when Min Wage get raised and Robots take over. Any job that c

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @11:20AM (#54360901)
    is Obama got the blame for post-Bush recession (which to be fair was caused by deregulation started by Clinton) and now Trump gets the credit for Obama's work fixing things.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Nah - as a Trump voter these numbers suck just as they did under the Obama administration.

      It's just funny watching the Obama voters on here suddenly agree.

      • Nah - as a Trump voter these numbers suck just as they did under the Obama administration.

        It's just funny watching the Obama voters on here suddenly agree.

        As an Obama voter (and someone who voted for Secretary Clinton), I think these numbers aren't so bad.

        An unemployment rate of 4.4 percent isn't too bad, and recent data shows people that are re-entering the workforce was steady.

        Unemployment rates that drop too much from where we are may cause inflation. I think the current rate could survive an increase of the minimum wage. But what do I know. I'm not an economist. I bow to the likes of Krugman ( https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.... [nytimes.com] https://twitter.com/paul [twitter.com]

    • Obama legitimately was in charge all through the turn-around of the economy. That wasn't residual Bush-administration policy causing the Great Recession to clean itself up; it was either the economy fixing itself or the Obama administration fixing it.

      Trump's administration is setting themselves up, though. These UE numbers are too low. There's a bubble somewhere here, and Trump's policies don't work toward market stability; the bubble's going to pop, and pop hard, and he's claiming responsibility now f

      • I don't see anyone warning Obama or Trump about what's happening right now.

        We're overdue for a recession by traditional economic measures. Since Hillary lost the election, it won't be called the Hillary and/or Obama Recession.

      • For the most part, the president neither deserves credit nor blame for recessions or growth. There are too many pieces to an economy, and the president is only one small part of it.
        • Politically, reality doesn't matter. Your accountability relies on being able to convince people you were or were not responsible. Trump's administration wants to be responsible for this end of the bubble, and will realize they really don't when it pops.

          • If we're talking about political skill, one of the (few?) skills Trump has, is making excuses. And somehow convincing people to accept them. I guess every politician has that skill to some degree, but it's strong in the orange one.
        • Sometimes no, sometimes yes.

        • by dszd0g ( 127522 )

          The president alone can have an impact by the appointments they make (like the federal reserve). Congress has an impact. Whether you can blame the economy on the president alone I agree is complicated. I wouldn't call the president's part a small part though; I believe the president has a significant impact on the economy. Sometimes, you can point to specific actions causing recessions or growth.

          The previous recession was almost certainly caused by the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999; this can be direc

          • ok, so I read your post, and it is really odd that every economic policy you don't like is Republican, and every economic policy you do like is Democrat. What are the odds of that?

            Most likely, you have internal bias, which was compounded by mainly reading things you agree with. Seek out things you disagree with and read them. Your cognitive biases will disappear.
    • That's just politics. By the 3rd year people realise the new boss isn't bringing shit to the table.

      Except that Trump has a negative approval rating. ... Only president ever, and he's only 100 days in. Let's give Trump all the credit for everything. He needs every last bit of it.

      • and everyone will rally behind him like they did Bush. The press has been touching on the subject (somewhat fearfully) that he's basically a sucker for praise and adoration and the only time he's gotten that so far is when he bombed the shit out of Syria & Afghanistan. Right now I'm guessing he's choosing between North Korea & Syria. NK is easier but Syria has oil so it's a tough call.
        • Bush had high approval ratings before the war and they dropped after it started.

          Trump is starting from negative. War won't get him anything.

    • And the misconceptions go a lot further than most people think.
      • The President's budget doesn't go into effect until the year after his inauguration. So the first year of his presidency, he's coasting on the previous President's budget.
      • The President merely suggests a budget. It's Congress that puts whatever they want into the budget. The President only gets to sign or veto it. No line-item veto. So if you want to blame (or credit) a party, it'd be more accurate to look at which party was in control of
  • by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @11:52AM (#54361133)

    I didn't realize cloning has become so effective....

    Now the only question is can we make enough black turtlenecks to keep up with demand?

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Friday May 05, 2017 @01:22PM (#54362009)

    Creating 200k jobs is easy. Destroy 100k jobs that can actually sustain a family and create two separate jobs that can't. Presto job creation. Now pit the people who need those pittance jobs to make ends meet against each other and watch the race to the bottom unfold.

  • From what I know about the unemployment number's survey process and recent trends in employment, I wonder how relevant it actually is. The government only surveys 6,000 people out of 300+ million, and defines employment as any job.

    These days, there are a lot of underemployed people, people stringing together gig economy jobs, etc. Also, in the past it was pretty much assumed that unemployment was a temporary thing -- the factory laid people off during slow times and hired them back, or there were a ton of p

    • Statistically, you need a sample of fixed size to get results of the desired reliability. It doesn't scale with the size of the population. It has to be a representative sample, but if the sample isn't representative the size doesn't matter until it gets close to the population size.

      There are various statistics showing unemployment and underemployment rates. They all have their uses.

  • Those numbers means nothing without knowing how many displaced were able to re-enter versus how many went to new entrants.

  • I know a lot of people getting laid off from my previous employers too. Some of us are still unemployed. I am almost on my fifth month. It's difficult/hard to find local and remote jobs with my disabilities and experiences. :(

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