Afghan Girl Roboticists Denied US Visas (bbc.com) 399
Three anonymous readers share a similar report: An all-girl team of roboticists will watch their creations compete in a US competition via Skype after being denied visas to enter the country. President Trump recently ordered a ban on travel from six Muslim-majority countries, but Afghanistan was not included on the list. Teams from Iran, Sudan and Syria -- which are on the list -- did manage to enter the country. The six-member team watched their ball-sorting robot compete in Washington DC via a video link from their hometown of Herat, in western Afghanistan. "We still don't know the reason why we were not granted visas, because other countries participating in the competition have been given visas," Fatemah Qaderyan, 14, told Reuters.
American Xenophobia (Score:3, Insightful)
Welcome to the DeEnlightenment.
What an embarrassment this country is becoming.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Welcome to the DeEnlightenment.
The Endullenment.
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Not knowing the reason for their denial you assume the worst? What is more embarrassing is your virtue signaling without all the facts.
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"Not knowing the reason for their denial you assume the worst? What is more embarrassing is your virtue signaling without all the facts." - AC
I have to agree with AC here. We don't really know why they were denied and there are many good reasons they might have been. Perhaps even one of them might have been a security risk. It sounds silly to think of a bright young woman being such, but far younger impressionable minds have been manipulated into doing terrible things.
Since we do not know exactly why they w
Re:American Xenophobia (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Nobody gives a fuck what the left has to say any longer. They even tried to convince Californians that they wanted single-player health-care, then promptly buried it in committee.
These are the same people that, when there was suddenly a chance of legislation passing that would allow cheaper medicine being imported into the country (because several Republicans at the last minut
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Except both sides are dishonest. Don't act like one side is honest and the other isn't. I see BS from every direction.
Give up political parties, be an independent and think for yourself.
Re:American Xenophobia (Score:5, Insightful)
you should have not posted as AC, because too few people actually realize this. They constantly get fed bullshit from one side that promptly blames the other. Right now I'm seeing this to a disproportionate degree from the left, but its always there. Since just before the election I've seen claims that the right will bring about world war 3, enslave billions, starve entire countries, cause the plague, famine, the apocalypse,.. you name it. Then the media gives them a voice to spread their fearmongering to the extent that people believe this horshit so much that they act out in pure, unadulterated violence. The media does nothing to tone down the rhetoric, instead they fan the flames, despite the threats of assasination, and exile. Then suddenly someone makes a video gif of trump punching a CNN logo and NOW SUDDENLY the media goes on and on about professionalism and how its not cool to threaten the press. To hell with that. They said nothing as other people have been threatened, even shot. They even were caught rejoicing when that shooter shot up the baseball practice.
The only solution is to eliminate a 2 party system. Polarization and a 50/50 divide where people believe one side as the epitome of good while the other the bastion of evil is Toxic to this country.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
You're not wrong, I just don't know why you're singling out Democrats and the Left. Republicans and the Right are at least as full of shit.
Or do you just not ever speak ill of the home team?
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Any group of children must have an adult chaperon, which means the adults must get clearance as well as the children for any of them to come at all.
Bureaucrats... (Score:5, Insightful)
Being an intelligent (young) woman is most decidedly a threat.
Yes, sadly, a threat to overstay their visas. Sadly, that is one of the criteria that has been historically used by bureaucrats in the visa office to deny visas.
In case you haven't been involved in obtaining visas for foreigners before, this is unfortunately quite common. I've seen this many times, despite impeccable invitation letters, pre-paid round trip air tickets, evidence of foreign funds (bank accounts), evidence of strong ties to return (e.g., children, close family members), visas for young folks (12-30 years old) from many poor-er countries get routinely denied by bureaucrats in the various visa offices ostensibly for this reason.
Depending on your politics and your sympathies, you may not care about this risk, but to some of the faceless bureaucrats running the visa offices, visa overstay risk is as much of a "threat" as association with terrorists.
On the flip side, see it from their point of view in "enforcing" the laws on the books: a group of young girls with little to tie them to their home country (and who might be ostracized in their own country for being educated), want a visa to travel to the USA on limited funds. Sadly, you gotta admit that at least a yellow flag would be raised that they are at risk of overstaying their visa. Maybe you don't care if they overstay, but depending on who was reviewing their visa application, that person might happen to care enough to deny the visa and I suspect that is exactly what happened.
Re:American Xenophobia (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, the same thing could have (and did) happen under the Obama administration years ago, it's just you didn't hear about it when it did, because there wasn't much political capital to gain by reporting on it. In fact, the summary itself undercuts the "xenophobia" narrative: why would the US let in teams from Syran, Iran, etc. if xenophobia was the driving motivator? Any time you apply for a visa to any country, there's a chance it'll be rejected. The US system in particular can be a bit capricious, which is a problem, but it's more of a bureaucratic problem, not a prejudicial one.
Re: (Score:3)
It could have been something as arbitrary as a misspelling of a home address on a form or as serious as a close relative of one of the applicants being on some watch list but to far too many people all they see is some bright young girls being picked on by the POTUS and then they run with the narrative that Trump is mean to little girls.
Visa denial are pretty SOP regardless of who is in the oval office.
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They should all have been watching the contest on TV from home, not in the US.
That cuts both ways (Score:3)
Re: American Xenophobia (Score:2)
20,000 Coptic Christians want to know why Obama refused their visa requests [investors.com]
Visitor visas are fickle. (Score:3, Informative)
Visitor visas are weird creatures. Even under ideal circumstances, with good jobs and excellent ties to their native country, about half of them are denied (or more) at certain embassies. It's entirely at the mercy of the consular officer, and this probably had nothing to do with the travel ban. It was probably a CO being skittish.
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Re:Visitor visas are fickle. (Score:4, Informative)
The Gambian team was also denied entry, and they're also not an at-risk country. More than 160 countries are taking part and only two were rejected, agreed that it is most likely a local consulate thing.
Re: Visitor visas are fickle. (Score:2)
Or as mundane as "unable to process applications in time"
Trump Ban? Maybe Not (Score:2, Interesting)
It is possible that the reason is unrelated to Thr Trump Ban. many times people from these particular type of shit-hole countries get a visa of one type or another and then just dissapear into an expat community.
Re: Trump Ban? Maybe Not (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly. The consular officer probably had concerns about them not returning to Afghanistan (or perhaps their chaperone) and that is then most likely explanation. Visitor visas are not a right, contrary to what many in the tech community seem to think. They require a finding by the consular officer that the visitor has sufficient ties to their native country that they will return to it at the end of their stay. A child with no job, parents with a less than ideal situation, in a devastated country, would have a hard time establishing this, and it gets worse if they are bringing their parents as a chaperone. Sadly, people get denied visitor visas everyday. It is part of life in a non-visa waiver country. It isn't just muslim countries.
Re: (Score:3)
"Denying visas because of being afraid they won't go back is just ridiculous."
That's pretty much the point of visas in the first place - they let you screen applicants that are criminals, likely to overstay, likely to illegally work, or likely to file a refugee claim.
"There are other ways to enforce that"
When the government tries that, they get called out as inhumane monsters:
http://nacla.org/news/2015/01/... [nacla.org]
"or just kick them out if they change their plans." ... at which point people will start calling the
probably the usual reasons (Score:5, Insightful)
Most likely the usual reasons: either, they didn't demonstrate that they had enough money to stay in the US, or there was doubt about their ability or desire to leave the US once granted entry. Same reason EU countries frequently deny entry.
After all, the US does seem to have difficulties removing people who overstay their visas or enter illegally.
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Or they simply didn't do their paperwork right. Perhaps they chose the wrong type of visa, or waited until the last minute.
Unfortunately the US government usually doesn't give more than vague reasons for denial.
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The DMV told me a deed isn't valid proof of my address, but they excepted a receipt from the post office when I had my mail forwarded. I could easily have my mail forwarded to a relatives house while traveling for an extended period, I know I did it before when I was traveling for about a year.
Who knows what crazy things appear on the visa form.
Re: probably the usual reasons (Score:2, Insightful)
And yet the possibility of a valid reason is doubted.
That's the problem with establishing a poor record, you aren't trusted to make even earnest decisions.
WebEx FTW (Score:2, Offtopic)
In related news, my company refused to fly my Indian overseas coders to the US for a week to watch the software they contributed to run for the first time on a monitor in the data center. I would think that fellow environmentalists would be happy that we didn't have to emit the carbon to ship a team of meatspace bodies halfway across the world.
Do we have to blame Trump? (Score:5, Informative)
So it has nothing to do with Trump's ban on those countries has it?
US immigration is a law unto itself and usually pretty arbitrary. I realise a lot of the world's problems are Trump's fault, but not all of them are.
Re:Do we have to blame Trump? (Score:5, Funny)
Trump: "Hold my beer."
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Trump doesn't drink alcohol...which makes his behavior even more alarming.
Re:Do we have to blame Trump? (Score:4, Funny)
True, but "Hold my cup of Russian hooker piss" doesn't have the same ring to it.
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They aren't blaming it on Trump. That line is in there to make sure the reader knows it's not because of the ban. Take that line out and you'd be complaining it isn't in there giving the impression that it is blaming Trump.
For a person that complains that others are easily offended you are quite easy to offend. I bet you were one of the flaming Trumpsters that got upset when NPR tweeted the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, because it promoted revolution against Trump.
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It's likely due to pressure from the Trump administration to quietly deny visas to people from countries like Afghanistan, while not being an official ban.
We have something similar in the UK. Technically it is possible for people to bring their spouses here on a spouse visa, but in practice the Home Office does everything in its power to stop them. Losing documentation, waiting until the last moment to send replies so that the applicant doesn't have time to appeal, telling people that they must leave the co
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legitimising their power to ban people of certain races and looks
If that were true then the others from Syria, Iran, and Sudan would have been denied entry. It is more likely a routine denial based on some bureaucratic rule that the team overlooked. You know, SOP for entry into any foreign country.
But that isn't as fun as screaming 'racism' at any chance you get now is it?
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If that were true then the others from Syria, Iran, and Sudan would have been denied entry.
No. Legitimising racism does not make everyone suddenly racist. It only brings out the latent ones. Not every border security is a jackass, not every police officer is a highschool bully who couldn't get a job, not every lawyer is the son of Beelzebub.
A metric shitload of what it takes to get into the USA if you're not a white Christian who knows the words to the star spangled banner is luck. And a the unlucky ones just got a whole lot less lucky.
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Right, because border agents can do anything they want regardless of the law... It takes a metric shitload to get into the US regardless of the characteristics you said. Even then, it isn't a right to access to a foreign country.
How has racism been legitimized in the US?
Idiocy (Score:4)
It really gets tiresome repeating facts to the ignorant and shills who refuse to work with those facts.
When 90% of a the people following a particular Religion are not impacted by the travel moratorium, it is not "xenophobic" policy. Making such a claim is lazily disingenuous. "You are a racist" is not an argument. Even if it were true, the policy being debated may not be. It is failed logic called a fallacy.
Considering that the countries impacted are all either failed states or have governments who support terrorists and terrorist organizations, the policy purpose is obviously to address potential terrorism. While we may be able to argue the actual risks involved, you make that impossible with "more" ad hominem based on failed logic. "You are a racist and homophobe" is not an argument.
Lastly, Countries _ARE_ REQUIRED to control their borders. This is a well known fact and every single nation on Earth does exactly that, because without doing so you have no country. (See Tibet for an example). More lazy arguments based on faulty logic won't make that untrue. More ad homimen (you are a racist, homophobe, misogynist) is still not an argument and is a simply lazy and disingenuous. If you have doubts that countries in fact do need to control their borders, leave all your papers at home and try to enter Mexico, or China, or Russia, or Germany, or any other place you wish. You will be begging for your papers and demanding to see the US embassy in little time. Attempting in fact to rely on the nation that you are attempting to subvert and undermine with your lazy disingenuous arguments!
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No, it is xenophobic. el Presidente Tweetie doesn't give a flying rat's ass about who comes into the country except that he can use it as a hot button issue for his supporters who indeed are a xenophobic.
By the way, just who requires countries control their borders? The International Border Commission? How come I never got the memo?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"You are a racist" is not an argument. Even if it were true, the policy being debated may not be. It is failed logic called a fallacy.
The left has cried "racist!" so much in my lifetime over things that clearly aren't, that more and more people like me have come to the "easy road"
The "easy road" is just responding "Fine, I'm racist. The word has lost all its meaning thanks to you, so now you can't harm me with it."
Re: Idiocy (Score:5, Insightful)
When everything is racist how do you not be a racist? Seriously, I want to know.
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When 90% of a the people following a particular Religion are not impacted by the travel moratorium, it is not "xenophobic" policy.
You're the only one who mentioned religion here.
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No rights violated: Entry to the US is not a right (Score:5, Insightful)
Entry into a foreign country is not a right.
These girls did not have any of their rights violated. They applied for visas; they were declined. It happens all the time. It happens to foreigners applying for visas in the US; it happens to Americans applying for visas elsewhere.
In addition, their gender is irrelevant. This information has only been included to incite more outrage from those who feed off of left-wing identity politics.
There is no story here except for the one that professional victims and their allies are trying to create.
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In addition, their gender is irrelevant. This information has only been included to incite more outrage from those who feed off of left-wing identity politics.
I tried to *jokingly* make that point above & got buried. Glad to see someone's modding up common sense . I might have jinxed you though.
Oh dear... (Score:2)
The US armed forces have been fighting an unwinnable war in Afghanistan for 16 years. Many people in Afghanistan hate them and wish they were gone.
Military robotics is a leading-edge field.
Hmmmmm.
https://www.amazon.com/Gone-To... [amazon.com]
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Most Afghanis hate the Taliban and wish them gone. They aren't leaving either.
Men In Black? (Score:5, Funny)
...Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start some shit, Zed. She's about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I'd say she's up to something...
It's too bad. What's a good answer? (Score:2, Interesting)
Does anyone know how to make a policy that allows visits from legitimate gadget makers while perfectly screening out anyone who might make a bomb instead? Please post the details here.
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Thanks for keeping us safe, Trump (Score:2)
Although denying these students visas accomplishes nothing in that respect.
Probably soured the entire team on the US is about all they accomplished with this dumb move.
Did anyone actually read the story? (Score:2)
It's a *team* of girls. And, since the robot is made of a choice of parts from an explicit list, there's no hidden weapons in it.
ObDisclosure: my stepson's First team made it to the semi-finals a couple of years ago.
No, this is put "they're Muslims, we don't want them, we read their application the same way that the right-wing slashdotters read the story."
So basically.... (Score:2)
So, basically... we in America are afraid of school girls. Seems accurate.
Please, No (Score:2)
Please TAKE A HIKE with your cherry-picked example for bleeding hearts, state-run BBC new service.
Liberals may have had few boundaries established for them by their parents, but I'm afraid their ignorance and lack of discipline cannot be allowed to prevent our entire civilization from establishing boundaries.
And by "Liberals" I mean almost all "conservatives" as well. Our civilization is being raped from the inside.
Government Employees . . . (Score:2)
Nobody ever got fired for saying NO.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously (Score:2)
President Trump recently ordered a ban on travel from six Muslim-majority countries, but Afghanistan was not included on the list. Teams from Iran, Sudan and Syria -- which are on the list -- did manage to enter the country.
And
"We still don't know the reason why we were not granted visas, because other countries participating in the competition have been given visas," Fatemah Qaderyan, 14, told Reuters.
So obviously it's because of the Trump travel ban EO, right?
Apparently no forigeners were ever prevented from entering the US without an explaination before Trump took office, right?
This entire story boils down to "a handful of Afghan girls were not granted visas to the US, we don't know why".
Trump Bashing Bonanza, No news at 11... (Score:2)
So a story that has nothing to do with Trumps travel ban (which by the way worked properly, allowing in non-threat robotics teams from even counties on the watch list), yet somehow this is Trumps fault? Since the other teams who WERE from watchlist countries managed to get in, I suspect that this team couldn't make it because they put in their travel applications late or didn't pay the processing fee or some other mundane thing along those lines, but the alt-left media and their lap dogs here on slashdot a
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yet somehow this is Trumps fault?
It's his administration.
Whatever happened to "The buck stops here"?
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Probably due to their age and gender (Score:3)
The children, males, and older (married) Korean women had no problem getting travel visas. But we had a high percentage of rejections for young females. Our theory was that the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service thinks young, unmarried women want to visit the U.S. in hopes of finding a husband, and obtaining U.S. citizenship that way. So it gives them a higher bar to hurdle if they apply for a tourist visa.
Re:Girl (Score:5, Interesting)
Why does the fact that she's Afghani matter? Why does the fact that she's a roboticist matter?
Re: Girl (Score:2, Insightful)
Why did we not read about each case of denied Visas under Obama? They did happen.
Re: Girl (Score:4, Insightful)
For the simple reason that Obama didn't make it a signature policy of his to create a Muslim ban. Mistakes were probably made, but since Obama didn't wade into it, there was no mess on him.
Instead, the right-wing went into hysterical frenzies over Obama criticizing the police, ATF guns, and Guantanamo. Even today, an NYPD officer was shot. Obama will likely get attacked for it, but Trump? Nope.
Just watch though, Trump will likely get flak over trying to bring a baby in the country, whose lifespan will be measured in agonizing months, and all his supporters will be ignoring how his Trumpcare cuts funds for medical care for US citizens.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously Trump has not put out a blanket ban on Muslims either as mentioned in the article.
Re: Girl (Score:5, Insightful)
"President Trump recently ordered a ban on travel from six Muslim-majority countries, but Afghanistan was not included on the list."
But we are going to mention it in order to stir up shit.
I can't wait for someone from Canada to be denied entry for whatever reason and then some stupid fucker mention the Ban while explaining that Canada wasn't part of it.
Re: Girl (Score:3)
You remember when the white non-Muslim man from Switzerland that wrote CURL was not granted a visa? That was also because of Trump's travel ban, even though he was white, non-Muslim, and from Switzerland, right?
Clearly stated in both stories is the phrase 'a country not on the (trump EO) list', but who reads the summary?
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Re: Girl (Score:2)
Remember the outcry when 20,000 Coptic christian refugees his administration refused to grant visas to [investors.com]? Me neither.
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None of those things matter. Maybe her people should clean up their own country so that the new generation has better opportunities to exploit with its potential. Islam isn't so keen on girls doing intellectual work..or work of any kind, except homemaker.
You say that none of these things matter, and then proceed to say what a big deal it is for a girl in Afghanistan to be able to do robotics. You completely contradict yourself in one single paragraph.
And what opportunity have these girls missed? Oh yes, going to the United States. In this case, it is not Islam that is holding these girls back.
Re:Girl (Score:5, Insightful)
It matters because in Afghanistan, women risk being attacked for daring to get an education. The fact that these young women are a robotics team is an important part of the story.
Re: Girl (Score:2)
It matters because in Afghanistan, women risk being attacked for daring to get an education.
Shouldn't that Have been included in the summary, since apparently that is what makes this story important...
Re:Girl (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, the horror. Educated young women with interests in STEM fields. How would "Merica" ever survive such a thing?
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Girl (Score:5, Insightful)
Their gender matters because as girls from Afghanistan, they would have been able to make a pretty good case that they should be allowed to remain in the US after being admitted due to conditions for girls in Afghanistan.
Re:Girl (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
And wouldn't that be just terrible. God knows how our culture could possibly survive allowing a few young girls come here.
I know some young male programmers that would likely turn into babbling idiots. This could seriously lower productivity.
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Well, yes, it would be. These girls have no financial resources of their own. So the tax payer will have to pay for their healthcare and education, hundreds of thousands of dollars per kid. Furthermore, the tax payer is never going to recoup that investment in terms of economic contributions.
The culture you should worry about is Afghan culture: if you keep luring away the smart, educated,
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thats a good point, but I think the article is more about a temporary visit. Its absolutely ridiculous to jump to conclusions as to why they are banned. The article already says that other students were allowed in who WERE from actual banned countries. So this is not a case of a blanket policy preventing admission. Don't you guys remember the old musician Cat Stephens getting on the no-fly list about 12+ yrs ago because he had the exact same real name as a known terrorist and it was his name alone that put
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And as I was pointing out, it probably was none of those. The most common reason why people from poor and third world nations are denied entry to the US (or Europe) is insufficient funds or doubts about their intent to leave. That's the most likely reason here; nothing to do with religion.
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as in they might be a refuse-to-leave risk? That's an interesting statistic I was unaware of though it does make sense.
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Break the insurance companies. That is step 1.
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Why? Many European countries have private health insurers. And in the US, high health care costs are primarily driven by the massive single payer public system.
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Whether it is terrible or not is irrelevant, current US law requires all aliens to be assumed to be immigrants until they establish they are not - and that is a factor that would be considered when determining if they should be granted a non-immigrant visa.
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Which is why, of course, the logical thing is to remove them from Afghanistan so that Afghanistan can stay in the hands of oppressive pigs, right?
Re: Girl (Score:2)
Fascinating how you took a story with nothing to do with Trump and tried to make it all about Trump...
The simple answer could be that someone forgot to process their visa applications in time for the trip.
#TrumpDerangementSyndrome
Re: (Score:2)
Thank you! Being called a "right wing racist lunatic" by you is indeed a compliment.
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I don't actually know how "farming for mod points" would work, but you seem to have experience with it. Can you explain? I always believed that in order to get mod points, you actually need to use an account and receive positive mods yourself. Isn't that true?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The fuck is wrong with you?
Supporting young roboticists is exactly the type of thing what Slashdot is all about.
Grow up.
Really? I thought slashdot was all about typos in teh summaries and misplaced rage from people who don't read the articles.
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LOL... You have a good point there...
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To be fair, also typos in the commentaries.
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Supporting young roboticists is exactly the type of thing what Slashdot is all about.
Well, we have these things called jokes. I realize it's hard to sense a sarcastic tone in written form, but being more explicit seems to ruin the delivery. I don't have any problem with them coming over here, and I tried to convey that with my second part by saying "on a more serious note..." but my guess is that you didn't get that far and just had a knee-jerk reaction to the first part.
Re: No Fucks To Give (Score:2, Informative)
So the 6 month total ban Obama put in place on any visa from Iraq never happened? Oh wait, you're about as wrong as Trump is orange.
Re: (Score:2)
Until somebody shows that the denial was based on Trump's "travel ban" why are we mentioning it?
Maybe to head off the inevitable deluge of comments about it being because of Trump's ban if it wasn't mentioned?
There are still quite a few from people who didn't read the summary before replying, but it would probably be worse without the disclaimer being there.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe because it is a similar story? This happens all the time. For example, if a police officers is killed, usually they mention other officers from the same area that were killed. Or if there is a murder in Chicago, they mention other murders and the murder rate in Chicago, even though they are not directly related to this murder. If there is a protest somewhere, they will bring up other protests that were similar. This isn't something new that only applies to stories about Trump, this is a common journal
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So any denial of a travel visa by the USA is now related to Trump's travel ban? I don't think so...So why included it if you don't intend to skew the interpretation of the facts to the reporter's political views?
I suppose that you COULD say that the only reason we are actually reporting THIS instance of a visa not being issued is because of Trump's executive order and how it makes visa denials somehow newsworthy now, but that amounts to the reporter putting their political bias on public display. Either
Here is how I read the summary... (Score:3)
An Afghan all-girl robotics team was denied entry into the US for a competition. If you are thinking it was because of the travel ban, it wasn't because a) Afghanistan wasn't part of the travel ban and b) teams from countries that were part of the bad were able to secure visas.
What I thought should have been highlighted more in the submission is that girls are generally denied education in Afghanistan so this was a big achievement for them. I also thought there could have been more details around the fact