Following Cheating Scandals, Harvard Dean of Undergrad Ed Visits CS50 Class and Tells Students Not To Cheat (thecrimson.com) 107
theodp writes: After a flood of cheating cases roiled Harvard's Computer Science 50: "Introduction to Computer Science I" last year, Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay Harris implored students in the course not to cheat on assignments at an orientation session Wednesday night. Course head David Malan, the Harvard Crimson reports, spent the last five minutes of the orientation session fielding questions from students confused about the course's collaboration policy and whether or not CS50 enrollees are allowed to use code found online. He told them never to Google solutions, and never to borrow a friend's work. Last week, CS50 students were informed via a CS50 FAQ that they are also now "encouraged" to physically attend the course's taped weekly lectures. In an essay last year, Prof. Malan had questioned the value of saying everyone should attend every lecture. Attendance is now also expected at every discussion section until the first mid-semester exam. In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 (health insurance sold separately).
Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:5, Insightful)
you can get a CS degree at any state school and they are far cheaper and just as good.
No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.
It's not as if the faculty at Harvard are somehow better
It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.
Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.
So it's an expensive popularity contest. He was talking about the quality of education.
Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:1)
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So it's an expensive popularity contest.
No. It is an expensive filtering contest, that has little to do with "popularity". To get into Harvard, you need high SAT scores, a near perfect GPA, all the right extracurriculars, etc. People hire Harvard grads, not because they were educated by Harvard, but because they were accepted by Harvard.
He was talking about the quality of education.
The quality of education is not the same as the quality of lectures. If you are in study group with Harvard classmates all at the 99th percentile, you are going to learn a lot more than you will in a study gro
Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a very hard time believing that. I can't speak to the quality of Harvard's education because I've never stepped foot in the place, but I've met a few people who went to those so-called 'elite schools.' They didn't seem any better or worse than those of us who could not afford the feeder schools, extracurricular activities, and other elements of institutionalized classism. The only difference I could tell was that they had nicer clothes and more expensive hobbies. Pardon me if I am highly skeptical of the claim that there's anything special going on there beyond networking and brand recognition, but I for one would much rather work with an Iowa State grad than someone from Harvard. At least I know which one has the ability to justly earn their position.
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To get into Harvard, you need high SAT scores, a near perfect GPA, all the right extracurriculars, etc
and the best part of a quarter of a million dollars. I wonder which of those requirements is most important?
Re:Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:4, Interesting)
No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.
So it's an expensive popularity contest. He was talking about the quality of education.
Dunno about most people but when I hear Harvard I think rich, not smart.
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George W. Bush is an excellent example. I've heard him accused of many things, being smart is not one of them.
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It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other.
They are calling out Googling the answers which suggests that their assignments are too simple. Though if it is sufficiently complex that you can cobble together a solution (i.e. build a system) from various different answers to specific problems by googling them then that would be representative of the real world.
Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid.
If it's true collaboration then sure, but at the other end if it's 3 people just copying the answers of the one smart person then that just means 75% of your graduates have just learned how to lee
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you can get a CS degree at any state school and they are far cheaper and just as good.
No, they are not just as good. A degree from Harvard will open a lot of doors. Not only because of the reputation, but also because of the alumni network.
It's not as if the faculty at Harvard are somehow better
It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.
And yet my degree from my local state college has kept me well employed at one of the top engineering firms in the country. It only cost me ~$20k which I paid off in the first year of employment. This same degree gave me entrance to start PHD work at one of the top colleges in the country and they only require me to take two additional classes, the rest I gained credit from my graduate studies at the same state college.
So yeah, state college is no good.
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It is not the faculty that is better, or the instruction, but the classmates. They learn a lot from each other. Which is why the restrictions on "collaboration" are so stupid. They are taking away the very thing that makes Harvard special.
...not to mention that nobody these days is looking to hire programmers to work solo projects. Collaboration is central to the job. I can remember during job interviews a lot of people were only interested in what my grade in the Software Engineering course was, and details about how my group project for that class went.
It was really weird being in that class because suddenly we were *supposed* to work together, and everyone (in my group at least) was absolutely terrible at it. Not only had we never done
Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:1, Informative)
Harvard does actually have a very well regarded CS program, and it's wishful thinking that you can get as good at any state school. I recently worked with someone just out of Harvard CS who was phenomenal, and he actually explained to me that CS50 is not actually part of the Comp Sci program, it's a programming class for non-CS (hence being sub-100 level).
Re: That makes more sense (Score:1)
Re: Do people go to Harvard to program? (Score:2)
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Harvard does actually have a very well regarded CS program, and it's wishful thinking that you can get as good at any state school.
It's one of the better programs, especially if you're a mathy type and more theoretically inclined.
I recently worked with someone just out of Harvard CS who was phenomenal, and he actually explained to me that CS50 is not actually part of the Comp Sci program, it's a programming class for non-CS (hence being sub-100 level).
I have a hard time believing a Harvard student would know so little about Harvard. In general sub-100 level classes are aimed at undergrads (and unless you're some savant, yes you'll take a few of these in your major field), 100 level is undergrad and some grad students, and 200 level is mostly grad students. And to fulfill the CS major requirements you need to take at least two classes among CS 50, 51, and
Well, that solves that! (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.
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Next they will pas a law to make it illegal... Yea, that will fix it! See how well it works in Chicago on the gun problem.
I don't get it, so are they going to take attendance now at Harvard? Proctor tests better? Start an automated scan of all the project source code to keep people from googling the answers? Yea, that's going to help.
Personally, I figure the idiots that cheat on their first CS course are going to get washed out of the program eventually. Where I'm not going to help you cheat, as a studen
big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don't p (Score:2)
big lectures classes are BS and cram tests don't prove much anyways.
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big lectures classes are BS
I prefer big classes. In small classes, the prof will digress to give a detailed answer to every question, so the class progresses at the pace of dumbest moron in the room. In big lecture halls, the prof just says "See me after class" or "Go talk to the TA", and moves on.
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I've had the exact opposite happen - 400 student lecture, Prof spends 3-5 minutes on lecture, the remainder of the period answering questions in detail, TAs for this class pretty much had to fill in the rest of the lecture. 20 student lecture? Prof says "See me after class, talk to your TA, or come to my office hours on Thursday".
I stopped going to the big lecture.
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The Dean shouldn't have to beg students not to cheat either. Toss some of t
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Next they will pas a law to make it illegal... Yea, that will fix it! See how well it works in Chicago on the gun problem.
Chicago bullshit aside for a moment, the true crime here is charging that fucking much for a degree that you can Google your way through.
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I won't argue that... My kids are attending UTD here in Dallas for 1/10th that cost (or less, depending on scholarships) and getting a degree that isn't from Harvard but is from a well respected school. I cannot see how it's worth paying Harvard, or any of the ivy league schools price. But I'm just the first college graduate from a farming family in the Midwest who didn't inherit a trust fund to live on all my life working as a software engineer, so what do I know?
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right, because admissions is tied to having enough money to come. Rich people are more likely to get in and getting in if you're not rich requires an exceptional application.
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He told them never to Google solutions
To me the Google issue is part of a deeper problem with learning and information-retention in a search-engine-driven world.
As a child, when I didn't understand a word or concept, my parents would never provide the verbal definition; we had to fetch the thick dictionary or encyclopedia and look it up ourselves. Later on they told us the effort needed to look things up helped us remember the new words, historical events etc.
Nowadays it seems a person's brain intrinsically knows it doesn't need to rememb
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You studied actual products produced by vendors in your degree? What did you study? Or wasn't this at a university? Not everyone can work out how to contact the producer of what they are studying.
Well, I suppose I could have found out Knuth's number if I'd really tried.
Getting in touch with Newton would have been a bit more tricky.
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The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.
The problem with cheating is one of what is perceived as socially acceptable, and it isn't limited to cheating with your education. It is the same mechanism that lies behind, say, binge drinking amongst teenagers in UK, low level tax evasion in Denmark, social benefits fraud, using your mobile while driving, corruption etc etc: it has somehow become socially acceptable - "everybody" is doing it. People have somehow persuaded themselves that it doesn't cause real problems, and to address it, somebody has to
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Just asking people to behave and reminding them of the consequences of cheating does actually work. It won't stop 100% of cheating but it will reduce it.
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The problem was that nobody told the students not to cheat. Now that that little misunderstanding has been cleared up, the problem is fixed.
The problem is that the corporations that many of these students will end up working for rely on various kinds of cheating as vital components of their business models. "Do as I say, not as I do" just doesn't fly, and for good reason.
As for the admonition not to "Google solutions", does the dean not understand that these students will be doing just that when they enter the workforce?
How I do it (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, if I see a common issue, I can do a 5 minute "mini lecture" to give an example technique in front of the class. If I come across a common issue after things have been submitted, I can do a 5 minute recorded lecture to reinforce what they should do in the future in that situation. Seems to work out well for my students.
Re:How I do it (Score:4, Informative)
Watching a lecture and then getting one on one time for things you don't understand or follow has got to be the greatest idea ever and would be the greatest improvement to the education system if implemented across the board.
While I'd like to claim credit for it, it's called a flipped classroom [wikipedia.org], and it's being implemented all over the place. It is also very helpful that I have a small class. It is much more difficult if I have more than a dozen or so students.
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I do this as well for a "Network Services with Linux". Lecture notes/summaries/examples are in our course management system, as are lists of good references and resources (thanks Safari subscription!), and class time is 10 minutes of demoing how things should work when done, pointing out particularly tricky bits and what common errors are, and then the next 2-2.5 hours are lab time.
Exams are only 20% of the final grade and are "did you do the reading and know how the protocol operates in general terms" wit
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> [flipped classrom] is much more difficult if I have more than a dozen or so students.
That is my main complain about the flipped classroom craziness we see these days. They assume that we all have classes of less than 30 students.
This semester, I teach 110 students. Even with 2 TAs, the idea that we can actually talk to each student every week is a pipe dream. We can not even have recitation with lead b the TA because we do not have space to hold these sessions. Even if we had room, over half our studen
Re:$70K? Absurd... (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed, most Harvard students do not pay tuition at all, because they are minorities or minority women.
Well, that is a load of crap. Roughly 50% of the Harvard student population is white. An additional 22% are Asian-American, who generally don't get classified as underpriviliged minority.
https://college.harvard.edu/ad... [harvard.edu]
Also, "minorities or minority women"?! Like the latter group magically doesn't get included in the former?
Previosu to this, did he tell them to cheat? (Score:3)
I am pretty sure that Harvard has previously told students not to cheat.
Doing it again is not useful. Try using tests (including testing conditions) that make it difficult to cheat, rather than yelling at people that do it.
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Sticker price? (Score:1, Informative)
"..In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 ..."
Let's be clear, the sticker price ..really only applies to white and Asian hetero males.
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Supplah and dehmahnd.
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That's easy: government subsidies and government student loan guarantees.
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Also it might have something to do with the fact that it's the number one most elite school on the planet, so if you don't want to pay up some Chinese guy will be happy to.
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"..In case you're curious, the estimated sticker price for attending Harvard College during the 2017-2018 school year is $69,600-$73,600 ..."
Let's be clear, the sticker price ..really only applies to white and Asian hetero males.
Is it more expensive for Asian homo males? Asking for a friend.
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So is there actually some special price for gay people?
I'm mixed race but look white... How much do I have to pay?
Reduce the incentive and value to cheat (Score:2, Interesting)
First things first, if the lectures are available online, I wouldn't make attendance mandatory. Instead, I'd explain to students why it benefits them to be in attendance:
1) It simply isn't possible to respond to respond to email or discussion forum questions immediately like what can be done in an in-class lecture.
2) It's far easier for an instructor to help students if the instructor knows who they are. It's not that the instructor is biased against anyone else, but it's hard to directly help students wh
double-secret probation (Score:2, Funny)
Video of the Harvard dean addressing the freshman in CS50 has now surfaced:
https://i.imgur.com/zPn4CNd.gi... [imgur.com]
test for cheating (Score:4, Interesting)
I recall one of my CS classes, the prof gave an assignment. You were guaranteed to run into a problem. Way back when, the batch file had a limit on memory usage and the assignment needed more than you had. So you went to the prof and he would put a check by your name and tell you how to up the resource. At the beginning of the assignment he was very clear. Do not cheat and that included asking classmates about anything about this assignment. If you did not go see him, you flunked the class. A clever prof figures out ways to detect cheating.
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If You define asking classmates about anything about this assignment as cheating, You had already failed as a teacher. Not only that, it is even a retarded way of detecting cheating -- it does not prevent cross-year cheating, and it is enough for one clever person to be caught cheating to ruin this really stupid and manipulative thing.
A clever teacher knows already that whatever punishments You employ, they only serve as perverse incentives at best and they always end up punishing upright students.
Re:test for cheating (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention that the best students - the ones that can identify a problem, and research how to solve it own their own - would be the ones punished.
The ones that "passed" were the drones that did exactly what they were told, in exactly the way they were told, and went back for more instructions at the first sign of trouble.
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It also assumes they don't already know the answer. The class may prohibit checking outside sources, but there are always other ways to solve the problem.
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Duh, the problem with that is it presumes that you need to check outside sources. Perhaps you already know how to raise your limits and just do it. So you fail because you hit a resource problem, realized this and fixed it using already gained knowledge.
Re:test for cheating (Score:5, Insightful)
So if you knew enough about batch files and memory to fix this on your own (I know I did, back then), you'd be branded a cheater? The problem with "clever" profs is their ego is so big, they'd never consider a student being smarter than them.
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Because this was before the internet. You know batch files. There were no manuals unless you worked for CDC. I am not claiming that the method he used would work today, but I am also sure a clever prof could device a scheme where the student would need to ask the prof to complete the assignment. Particularly if the prof was clear, using the internet for this assignment is cheating. You are to complete this assignment entirely on your own. Flame away people.
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Because this was before the internet. You know batch files. There were no manuals unless you worked for CDC.
Well, FWIW, I taught myself all about batch files by reading the manual. In that era software came with excellent printed manuals, containing commands and examples. Nowadays, you find the documentation online, and the examples on Google/StackOverflow.
I think having a face-to-face with the student about the assignment is a much better way to determine whether it was own effort or not.
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I had a professor do something like this in a graduate computational physics class. I ignored his batch file, and wrote my own stuff to finish the assignment. I got a 0.
I went in to complain to the professor about this, my answer was more elegant (faster, simpler code, right answer) than what he had done! He pointed out that I needed to learn how to work with a team, and that it wasn't always an option to re-write other people's code whenever you'd like. One of the points of the assignment was to understa
Re:test for cheating (Score:4, Interesting)
One of the points of the assignment was to understand how to work within the limitations of practical work.
Was that a specifically communicated point of the assignment or just something that he tacked on when you complained? It sounds like he was just punishing you for bruising his ego. I've been in the same situation that you were in...
Part of teaching somebody how to work within limitations is to use actual limitations. Rewriting his code was obviously not an actual limitation, because you did it, so if he wanted it to be limiting he should have specified that. These some years later, it's clear what the limitations are and you I hope that don't fire people for not working within limitations that you never communicated to them.
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Great example of prof ego. Instead of deducing a few points for failing a hidden objective, you didn't get any points, even though you completed the main assignment. Then he convinced you he was right. Classic gaslighting [wikipedia.org].
This is a problem with education in general, with teachers expecting you to regurgitate only *their* solutions, instead of promoting independent thought and thinking outside of the box.
As for your last sentence, it depends. Sometimes you have to go with the flow, and sometimes you have to
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Fuck teachers who do things like that.
I was failed out of a class (at Harvard no less) for doing too well. The instructor didn't think it was possible for me to do as well as I did, in the time I had, and determined that I had cheated on the final project.
Some of us don't need to ask classmates - I was the nerdy autist who (quite literally) asked for DOS manuals for birthday presents as a child. Dealing with extended memory, high memory, upper memory - all of this was common when dealing with video games,
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Nothing really new (Score:2)
Back when I was taking CS101 in the late 80's (at one of the many "Harvard of the South"s), I remember they ran a "DIFF" on all programming assignment submissions. Three people were caught turning in the same code, and kicked out. I think the class had maybe 15 people in it tops.
I remember a lot of pearl-clutching at the time, because our school had an honor code, and those three had agreed to it. Imagine that, a signed honor code hadn't weeded out cheaters!
The only details I'd ever heard about it was t