Russia Hackers Had Targets Worldwide, Beyond US Election (apnews.com) 254
Raphael Satter, Jeff Donn, and Justin Myers, reporting for Associated Press: The hackers who disrupted the U.S. presidential election had ambitions well beyond Hillary Clinton's campaign, targeting the emails of Ukrainian officers, Russian opposition figures, U.S. defense contractors and thousands of others of interest to the Kremlin, according to a previously unpublished digital hit list obtained by The Associated Press. The list provides the most detailed forensic evidence yet of the close alignment between the hackers and the Russian government, exposing an operation that stretched back years and tried to break into the inboxes of 4,700 Gmail users across the globe -- from the pope's representative in Kiev to the punk band Pussy Riot in Moscow. "It's a wish list of who you'd want to target to further Russian interests," said Keir Giles, director of the Conflict Studies Research Center in Cambridge, England, and one of five outside experts who reviewed the AP's findings. He said the data was "a master list of individuals whom Russia would like to spy on, embarrass, discredit or silence."
In other words (Score:1, Informative)
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Why would the two be mutually exclusive?
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Why would the two be mutually exclusive?
Who said it was?
The GP stated that instead of Russia's strategy being directed exclusively at the US elections, it is a world wide strategy. That's not mutually exclusive.
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Who said it was?
You?
"A broad Russian strategy rather than targeting US election specifically."
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As to GP's point, I think it's worth pointing out to the slow ones in the audience that all elections and news worldwide should be examined for Russian influence. Furthermore, the magat trump supporters can insist that the 2016 election was totally kosher (despite, you know, the less popular candidate winning and ample evidenc
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A broad Russian strategy rather than targeting US election specifically.
Yep, Russia's strategy is to sow discord throughout the western world to weaken them to Russia's advantage. When we fight amongst ourselves we have less attention to focus on them.
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I think Trump likes the discord too, at least judging by the first 9 months of his Presidency.
Russia has been doing this forever (Score:3, Interesting)
The KGB and Kremlin have been doing this forever. For the most part, we took control of the media in the sense that no foreign adversaries were able to poke through on a large scale.
With the advent of the internet, all the walls were dropped and they were able to ramp up.
Nothing has changed about their strategy other then its now digital.
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"Those Silly Russians" - Eric Kotara
First time an American President committed Treason (Score:2, Interesting)
One thing that's changed is the we've never had a President strenuously collude with Russia's attacks on our country.
Donald Trump magnified Russia's attack on America by publicly praising it, while denying that it was Russia's doing, even though court documents now show that the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia's cyberattacks on America.
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One thing that's changed is the we've never had a President strenuously collude with Russia's attacks on our country.
Donald Trump magnified Russia's attack on America by publicly praising it, while denying that it was Russia's doing, even though court documents now show that the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia's cyberattacks on America.
ROFLMAO.
Dude, what color is the sky in your planet?
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That's hilarious, considering that a) the birther-in-chief is the current occupant of the WH, and b) it's not leftists shooting their mouth off you should worry about, but Mueller's actual investigation.
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Where 'started' probably means something like 'the Clinton staff looked into it as part of oppo research when Hilary was running against Obama, but dropped it as insane nonsense.'
But even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Hillary ever uttered the phrase 'birth certificate' in this context, does that mean it is suddenly not a sadly laughable conspiracy theory? Because Hilary would somehow have blessed it?
My estimate of the US voter has never been as low as in the last few years. In any sensible d
Re:First time an American President committed Trea (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, the 'birther' thing originated from Hillary Clinton's primary campaign against Obama. Yes, it's boring arcana and nothing new with regard to the Clinton Crime Family, but it's the deal.
Or, you know, that is just more fake news [politifact.com] from the mouth of the president.
Jeez the discourse on this site has reached a new low. People spouting half assed conspiracy theories used to be modded down, not modded up.
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To be clear: Politifact acknowledges that Clinton staffers were spreading the birther rumor during the primary.
It just can't be tied back to Clinton herself or the "official" campaign. Which sou
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There is no evidence to support this. Clinton supporters circulated the rumor in the last days of the 2008 Democratic primary and after Clinton had conceded to Obama.
That is tantamount to Trump campaign starting the whole "Aliens are sending girls to rape colonies on the moon" thing just because Alex Jones is throwing it out there.
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The sad things is that posting a link to Politifact just proves that it must be true in some people's minds. They really do seem to believe that anything that the "mainstream media" (basically everyone with a shred of credibility) says is merely more proof of conspiracy.
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You aren't part of the investigation, and its not over so there is no conclusion.
The Russians taking out ads to target divisions in our society is an attack. It happened on our Cyber infrastructure. It can therefore be said it was a "Cyber Attack."
Voting machines not online... are you suggesting they can't be attacked? I've found offline machines are usually more susceptible to a coordinated attack.
The investigation is not about left or the right. The investigation into Russia started in early 2016.
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You know in those video games where your avatar's life is bleeding out in a rising cloud of numeric bubbles? Credibility works this way, too. Only you have to visualize this yourself. It's a little harder, but may I suggest it's a worthwhile life skill to develop.
Obama's secret struggle to punish Russia for Putin's election assault [washingtonpost.com] — The Washington Post, 23 June 2017
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I'm a little slow sometimes.
If you had written your post that way, instead of "absolutely nothing", much of your credibility would still be intact.
I know, I know, "absolutely nothing" and "sweet fuck all" are practically cohabiting in the same pouch on your potion belt.
Yet the difference is crucial.
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Maybe the reason Obama didn't try to stop the Russians is because it would have been counterproductive. By this I mean that the collusion and election interference from Russia could very well have been the result of a tit-for-tat agreement connected to the uranium deal and huge donations from Russian sources toward the Clinton foundation.
So, the idea being that Obama and the DNC couldn't imagine a scenario where Hillary would lose, especially with all of the help from the Russians they purchased with urani
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Any time a foreign adversary attacks our interests in a way meant to disrupt our society, that is an act of war. It may be a propaganda war, but its war. They have installed a Russian firewall similar to the Chinese firewall so as to not have the same thing done to them.
Free speech is a right we give ourselves in the constitution. The Constitution does not apply to other countries. They have zero right to free speech in our country when it originates on their soil.
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"No Branch!" - Poppi, Trolls
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It's not sarcasm if your campaign is actively colluding with the cyberattacks and email thefts that you are praising as court documents show Moscow Donald did.
WHAT court documents? There are no documents that show this or even suggest what you claim.
I think you are making this all up, just like the "Golden Showers" dossier was made up and paid for by the democrats, then used by the FBI to justify surveillance of the Trump campaign so the Obama administration could "tap Trumps wires" (which we actually DO have documentation of).
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When your gears are all ground up, will you then STFU? Because your phony patriotism is starting to smell funny.
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Wait a minute, the media told me Trump is a NAZI. Russians hate NAZI's.
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The Disturbing Timeline of George Papadopoulos' Russian Contacts On Behalf of Trump Campaign [medium.com]
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Exactly.
Whenever I see an "shocking" article about Russia, my first thought is, "Why the shock that countries work for their own interest and against their enemies?"
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Agreed. *Especially* since the US doesn't exactly have a very good track record in this department.
People in the U.S. have a choice: (a) stop being so whiny about what Russia did or (b) stopping doing essentially the same thing to a number of other countries. But the current stance of being upset while we do the same to others is nothing more than hypocrisy.
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The thing that's shocking isn't that Russia spies on us - and even tilts toward one political party or another. It's that Facebook and other social networking sites have suddenly provided a way to easily and fraudulently inject propaganda into our electoral process. It's the way they used the info that's so shocking and scary.
And one more thing that's shocking to me. Fox and the like have so primed a large audience to believe farcically untrue stuff (and don't go citing MSNBC or CNN - Fox is qualitativel
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It's been a long time since I watched FNC. What are some examples of farcically untrue stuff that it broadcasts?
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tilts toward one political party or another
I thought they were going after all sides to instigate division.
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Whenever I see an "shocking" article about Russia, my first thought is, "Why the shock that countries work for their own interest and against their enemies?"
What's shocking is that we now have a political movement in this country that's friendly to an aggressive foreign power (on the record, Trump said it), encouraged (we have Trump Jr's email) and facilitated (TBD) meddling in our political system. It used to be you could count on whoever was in power to defend the US. Whether they liked patchouli or crewcuts they'd be flipping the f*** out over the idea that Russian agents were (or are) "working" for some aspect of the highest office in this country.
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Whether they liked patchouli or crewcuts they'd be flipping the f*** out over the idea that Russian agents were (or are) "working" for some aspect of the highest office in this country.
Nah. Uncle Joe was sorely misunderstood, and Communists really care for the oppressed, unlike the hated Yankees. Che Guevara and Fidel Castro are my heroes, and the Maryknoll Sisters are my heroines.
nothing burger undematerialization startle reflex (Score:2)
Just asking: did you snort the same blase powder over the Snowden "revelations".
The shock—and it's usually just a mild one—is to finally see credible evidence marshalled in a public forum that the majority of the population won't immediately discount as a giant nothing burger.
I always startle a bit when a giant nothing burger suddenly undema
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The USSR infiltrated numerous US organizations and parts of the US government; they did a lot of damage post-WWII.
But we still survived, and dealing with this crap is the price we pay for living in a free society. Freedom also means the freedom of stupid Americans to listen to hostile foreign powers if they choose.
There's been one big change (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nice Straw man (Score:2, Flamebait)
Nice politics troll though. The part at the end was a little odd though. Are you working for the Ruskies?
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Democratic Socialist actually (Score:2)
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People have to trained to be gullible. Any time anything unfavourable to Trump comes out he decries to as fake news, and people started to think that way.
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Note: All of what I claimed has evidence to back up. You insinuations of Trump and Russia colluding doesn't have evidence. You are a complete moron for bringing up this topic to bash Trump, when it has now been proven Clinton is ACTUALLY guilty of it. But then again you have hit peak stupidity.
Hi Russian troll. It's not going to work. Our eyes are open now.
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Interference in the past didn't usually make it far: there were editors and fact checkers and journalists who had integrity.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
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Twitter is a greater threat than Russia (Score:4, Insightful)
From Twitter's testimony before the Senate Judiciary committee [senate.gov] (page 11):
With respect to #DNCLeak, approximately 23,000 users posted around 140,000 unique Tweets with that hashtag in the relevant period. Of those Tweets, roughly 2% were from potentially Russian-linked accounts. As noted above, our automated systems at the time detected, labeled, and hid just under half (48%) of all the original Tweets with #DNCLeak. Of the total Tweets with the hashtag, 0.84% were hidden and also originated from accounts that met at least one of the criteria for a Russian-linked account. Those Tweets received 0.21% of overall Tweet impressions.
It seems to me that Twitter is a much bigger threat to our election process than Russia.
Shouldn't speech about the election be somehow... I don't know... protected or something?
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Number of tweets is the wrong metric. If 100,000 real users with 1 follower each tweet about it, and 1 Russian account with 100,000 followers tweets about it, does the Russian tweet really represent 0.001%?
Even their Brexit troll accounts averaged a few hundred k followers, so I'd be surprised if the US election troll accounts had less than that.
Spain (Score:2, Insightful)
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Russia told my dog to bug me because she wants to go out for a walk. Those damned Russians, stirring shit up. It's cold out there and I don't WANT to take her for a walk today!
(it's easy at this point in history to suss out a whole bunch of fucking idiots. They're the 'Blame Russia' crowd, the people calling people they disagree with 'comrade' or 'Ivan.' Total fucking idiots, wind-up morons set loose to annoy the rest of us.)
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It can look like it, if you ignore that Catalans have been demanding independence for decades. Just look at the pictures [google.es]. Notice the similarities? Those were during the 70's, when Franco was just dead. We don't need Assange or the Russians for this, thank you very much.
Oh, but we do need help, like we once did during the Spanish Civil War that lead to WWII. Back then, the World decided that economic stability was far more important than justice. The consequence was Hitler's rising and millions dead. Have we
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Have we learnt something since?
Yes. Do not simultaneously declare war on the US and Russia. Finish Russia off first.
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I wonder if Putin is hiding underneath your bed. Have you checked there today?
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Psst. The secret is: It was pushed along by the Catalonians.
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The Brits certainly have the motive to create division in Europe at the moment.
Surely you're not suggesting Her Majesty's government would do anything underhand?
Her Majesty's government is, of course, beyond reproach. Theresa May's government, on the other hand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
It's nice how the ministers give Her Majesty some plausible deniability...
Universal Internet Code of Conduct UN agreement (Score:2)
We need something sumilar for the Internet, Hardware, and Software. It is not a secret that numerous political and economic entities use the Internet for hidden agenda activities.
They have done well (Score:1)
Re:They have done well (Score:4, Interesting)
So the Russians are behind Brexit now?
Are they behind the open borders movement too - as an effort to destabilize western Europe and the United States?
The Russians are behind the Scots wanting independence?
And Catalonia?
The Kurds as well (yes I know Kurdistan is not in Europe).
Oooo. How about the upcoming Basque, Corsican, Sardinian, Venetian, and Sicilian Independence Movements.
Are the Russians behind the California Independence movement? And the Alaskan Independence Movement (yeah rejoining Alaska with Russia).
Sarah Palin's husband is a Russian operative. You heard it here first folks.
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Ha. Ha. Ha.
So the Russians are behind Brexit now?
Are they behind the open borders movement too - as an effort to destabilize western Europe and the United States?
The Russians are behind the Scots wanting independence?
And Catalonia?
I'd have assumed it was the USA behind Brexit. The Brits are probably behind Catalonia and the Irish behind Scots independence.
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Brexit: Yes, they pushed hard for it. Take a look at "David Jones" for example [independent.co.uk].
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Re:They have done well (Score:4, Insightful)
Red scare is when the right attacks the left accusing people of communist sympathies. The Soviet Union and communism failed so it is no longer possible to have a red scare, no one in the West believes in communism any more. Democratic socialism and varying degrees of state regulation yes but Soviet communism? no chance.
What we have here are hostile acts by Russian hackers aimed at destabilsing their enemies. And the United States continues to act as an enemy of Russia so you bastards deserved it. The destruction of the EU and Nato are also highly desireable given the EU power grab in Ukraine. The fact that the Russians have achieved this by hijacking the causes of sociopathic right wing hedge fund managers and the super rich is just the icing on the cake. They must be laughing their asses off at the stupidity of the Nationalist and Populists who are destroying America and the European Union.
No suprise that the rest of us look at you dumb traitors with disgust. No one cares that Hillary lost or that Brexit is happening, we care about the fact that these aims were achieved by dog whistle racism and pressing the fear of the foriegner button which has poisoned our nations with hatred. Western economic power depends on globalisation and immigration and emigration, at least outside Japan it does. The joke of it all is that by ending globalisation and immigration and emigration the biggest casualty is capitalism as it will lead to a global economic decline. Serves you cretins right.
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The joke of it all is that by ending globalisation and immigration and emigration the biggest casualty is capitalism as it will lead to a global economic decline. Serves you cretins right.
Yes, I'm sure you'll be fine.
The US (and Russia for that matter) are going to be relatively well off in a global economic decline. We have natural resources and land to sustain ourselves. And the might to stop others from taking it.
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EU power grab in Ukraine.
Whhaaatt? I think you've confused which side invaded and took territory away from a sovereign nation.
The Russians are evil (Score:2)
Of course they had more targets.
Looking at it wrong (Score:3)
.
Just sayin, we have huge issues with governance in the US, and while it's convienient to blame others (and fer sure they are involved) - it's not just the foreign influences that are the most important. They don't have any monopoly on telling us lies, and trying to blame all deception on an external cause is kinda vain. I seem to recall the old saying "fool me once, shame on you - fool my twice, shame on me". Well, we've been fooled again (apologies Who) and again for as long as I remember at age 64. How about taking some responsibility for that? Oh right, it's mostly immature kids here. You may now get off my lawn. Eisenhower had it right - and it was probably true before he said it.
If you actually want to fix a problem, rather than just whine about it, it pays to define it correctly. Don't let hate - encouraged by people who don't have your interests at heart - win.
Clearly, divide and conquer is at play here. And I don't think all that is external - only a few percent is.
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Very good points. At the end of the day the most significant result of Russian meddling is that society is more polarised and that is a lot harder to fix than whoever gets to be president for a while. The corporations and the rich still benefit the most whoever gets into power.
USians got Trump because... (Score:1)
USians got Trump because Obama didn't reign in Corruption in the Political Class, fix FDR style guards on the Economy, and basically governed as a Center-Right Republican on Economic issues, and Center Left Democrat on Social issues.
Because he failed to stablize the declining middle class, allowed the decimation of Unions, and because of the Citizens United Ruling, it opened the door for our elections to be bought. This has been happening because the US have basically a far right government in Congress and
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"disrupted" the election? Oh please... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm neither pro-Russia nor pro-Trump, but the whole narrative has become so ridiculously twisted. Replace 'Russia' with 'Britain', and the story would be about how an allied whistleblower uncovered the shocking story of the Democratic primary being rigged. Where's the outrage about that?
That Russia has wanted, and has tried to encourage, the breakup of the U.S. for decades is not news (Igor Panarin has very publicly made a career out of it). And buying ads to exacerbate the existing divisions hardly seems l
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The problem is not that they exposed wrong-doing, it's the way they did it. They exposed Hilary in a way that caused maximum damage to her campaign, even though in the end it didn't result in any prosecutions. At the same time they kept quiet about Trump and his staff's illegal dealings with Russia, which at least one of them has now admitted and taken a plea bargain for.
Are you really so naive as to think that Russia was trying to help the US, rather than get the guy they thought would weaken their biggest
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The problem is not that they exposed wrong-doing, it's the way they did it.
I think that's a valid point. But it also seems to be part of what has been lost in the noise. And literally it seems like the attention ratio of "how dare Russia do that" to "how dare people try to rig the Dem primary" is 1000:1. I'm not at all against there being a lot of discussion about Russia's actions, but it also seems wrong that the underlying narrative of a semi-rigged primary got so little attention.
They exposed Hilary in a way that caused maximum damage to her campaign, even though in the end it didn't result in any prosecutions.
And, importantly, so far we don't have much evidence to suggest that it affected the outcome of the
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You know how we look at whatever little dictatorship in other c
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To me it seems like you're illustrating the exact point I'm trying to make: you're upset over the Russian meddling. I get that. I don't even disagree with it*. But where's the outrage over what was going on within the DNC itself? The purpoted "hack" wasn't stealing the DNC's money or erasing donor lists or anything like it. Rather it was revealing the nefarious deeds of people who, themselves, were essentially doing *the exact same thing* in that they were disrupting the democratic process. It's possible to
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But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged when it is done to us. That atti
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Firstly, when you put the word hack in quotes, you are giving a big pass
Nah, that was just me not being very clear, sorry - I was being disdainful because, literally for months, the headlines were things like "Russia hacked the election", which is false.
That is not something to be minimized. It is a very very big deal. Should we be doing it to other countries, no. It's a bad thing, a very bad thing.
Agreed!
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be outraged when it is done to us. That attitude is just the same as saying "Meh, I am ok with it." I for one am not. Any rational person shouldn't be.
Wait, are you saying that there are exactly two allowed emotional responses? Either total outrage or "meh, I am ok with it" ? There's nothing in between? That doesn't make any sense to me, but I might be misunderstanding you - apologies if that is the case.
I don't like the fact that Russia did this, but it's hard for me t
Re: "disrupted" the election? Oh please... (Score:2)
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Ah, but that is the whole issue, for something that didn't happen, there seems to be a lot of evidence that it might have.
Ok, I'd like to read up on the evidence that suggests that there might have been an offer of sanction removal/reduction in exchange for rigging the election. Can you share a link please? Outside of a huge amount of conjecture, so far there has been very little evidence that I've seen, so I'm eager to be corrected.
You are confusing us following information coming out of an ongoing investigation with some kind of conclusion.
Not at all. Rather, it seems like the conclusion was drawn from day one, and ever since it's been a hunt for information to support that conclusion. To me this is very much like the Republicans and
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Most democrats would agree that the DNC and Hilary are corrupt rubbish so you score no significant points by making a big deal of it. The problem with the Russian intervention is that they promoted violent nationalism and this is far more damaging to society than which flavour of corporate politician gets elected. Trumps main problem is that he encourages division, most of the rest of his ghastly legislation will get fixed by the next corporate president but the hatred for minorities will take a lot longer
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Most democrats would agree that the DNC and Hilary are corrupt rubbish
Is that really the case though? I'm not disputing it so much as asking. I'm neither a Dem nor a Rep, so I don't really have a feel, but if I called myself a Democrat and supported that party (including, probably, giving money to it), I'd be more than a little pissed to find out the candidate selection process was rigged or that people were trying to rig it.
And to be clear, this has nothing to do with Democrats per se - the same applies equally to Republicans and corruption in their party: isn't that the sor
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The leaks (DNC emails were not hacked but leaked) proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Democrat party was corrupt to the core. You'd be shouting "LOL prove it" if this was not the case.
Wasn't Manafort with the Trump campaign for just a couple or three months? And they booted him for appearing shady? I had an employee once that ended up in prison, twice. Am I responsible for his actions? At the time nobody wanted to work for Trump, and Manafort was an experienced campaign manager (Bob Dole in 1996)
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I agree with you, that correlation does not mean causation in this case. But this 'hackers who disrupted the U.S. presidential election' being treated as a foregone conclusion is just more propaganda.
The DNC wants us to believe that their emails were stolen by Russian hackers, and expects us to accept at face value the word of proven cheats and liars, even when they refuse to have the server in question turned over to the FBI for forensic analysis. We're supposed to ignore the mysterious, still unsolved, m
Why is this news? (Score:2)
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That a candidate that can give a good speech that people enjoy would win states.
If a person wants to win a US election have a policy thats well accepted, a person who can actually give good speeches. Someone who can talk in a positive way about the USA.
Have some energy, charm and the ability to travel all around the different parts of the USA. Talk to lots of real people and win the needed states.
Staying
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AP's source (Score:2)
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But I suppose Democrats need their birther conspiracy theories too.
Clinton literally started that one. The right just snatched her ball away from her like a giant red-colored Lucy and laughed.
Oh, and they're doing it with the MUH RUSSIA narrative now, too.
Poor Shillary, always gettin' robbed.
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It has been proven that it was a leak and not a hack. The files where copied locally using cp -R based on the time and date stamps.
It was a 25MB per second copy(i.e. USB2.0).
https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/guccifer2-metadata-analysis/comment-page-1/
Not proven [Re:Pure Treason] (Score:2)
It has been proven that it [meaning the DNC hack] was a leak and not a hack.
Nope. One researcher claimed that it was a leak and not a hack, but the evidence to show that was weak. The Nation (which was the first mainstream outlet to publish those charges first) later published a second article pointing out the weaknesses in the case made by the first article: https://www.thenation.com/arti... [thenation.com]
The files where copied locally using cp -R based on the time and date stamps. It was a 25MB per second copy(i.e. USB2.0).
So, what the metadata showed was that at some point the data was copied at 25MBits/second. What wasn't shown, however, was at what stage in the hack this transfer speed happened. The files c
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I'm proud to be a patriotic American.
We can tell, by your stupidity, obnoxiousness, and dogged attraction to your opinion, regardless of evidence to the contrary....
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Re:So she lost because, Russia? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So she lost because, Russia? (Score:4, Informative)
Yet multiple investigations have turned up absolutely no substantial evidence that she did anything illegal.
Meanwhile, Trump's associates are bailing out left and right when proof of their wrongdoing is found and members are starting to get arrested and indicted for real crimes.
You have a hilariously stupid definition of "less so"
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I think that's why the various
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The real enemy of civilisation are the propagandists seeking genocide and polarisation within our societies to further their political aims. United we stand. divided we fall. Stop being so weak you snowflake chickens.
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We understand that the Soviet Union when it existed funded the left. We also understand that the Soviet Union no longer exists and that communism failed. The modern Russia is a gangster kingdom which actually mainly funds far right extremists across the world as a means of destabalising its enemies. We understand all this but cannot understand why you choose not to understand this.
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Absolutely 100% correct. No one gives a jot about clinton now and most of the democrats hope we never see her again. Trump is an idot and is doing far more damage to the west than any corporate money shill republican could ever do. The guy has done exactly nothing for his base except encourage racists and Nazis. Get rid of him before something really bad happens. Pence would be a nightmare but at least he would only make people poor to pay for benefits for the super rich rather than burning down the world l