Russia Detects a Significant Radiation Spike In Mountains Close To Soviet-Era Nuclear Plant (nytimes.com) 125
According to a report via The New York Times, Russia said that it had detected a significant radiation spike in the Ural Mountains, close to a sprawling Soviet-era nuclear plant still remembered as the site of an accident 60 years ago. Russia did however reject suggestions that it was the source of a radioactive cloud that hovered over Europe. From the report: The location of the spike -- in the Chelyabinsk region near the border with Kazakhstan -- has been identified by French and German nuclear safety institutions as a potential source for a concentration of a radioactive isotope called ruthenium 106 detected in the air in late September above several European countries. But nuclear energy authorities in Moscow insisted Monday that still-higher levels of atmospheric contamination had been detected outside Russia, in southeastern Europe. Reports of the elevated radiation levels over Western Europe raised alarms, but nuclear safety authorities in France and Germany said there was no threat to human health or to the environment -- an assurance repeated on Tuesday by Moscow. The Russian state weather service Roshydromet said it had found what the Russian news media described as "extremely high pollution" at two monitoring facilities within a 62-mile radius of the Mayak nuclear reprocessing and isotope production plant. A weather station in the town of Argayash recorded ruthenium 106 levels that were 986 times higher than a month earlier, the state weather agency said. A second station at Novogorny detected levels 440 times higher. Ruthenium 106, which does not occur naturally and has a half-life of about a year, is used for medical purposes.
For weeks, Russian officials had denied the French and German accusations. Citing the results of its own air monitoring on European territory, Moscow pointed to high radiation levels over Romania, Italy and Ukraine, insisting that there had been only a negligible presence of ruthenium 106 on Russian territory. On Tuesday, even after the Russian agency acknowledged the radiation spike in the Urals, Maxim Yakovenko, the head of Roshydromet, said in a statement that higher levels of contamination had been detected in Romania than in Russia. "The published data is not sufficient to establish the location of the pollution source," he said. The authorities at Mayak denied in a news release on Tuesday that the plant had contributed to the increased levels of ruthenium 106 and insisted that there was no threat to human beings.
For weeks, Russian officials had denied the French and German accusations. Citing the results of its own air monitoring on European territory, Moscow pointed to high radiation levels over Romania, Italy and Ukraine, insisting that there had been only a negligible presence of ruthenium 106 on Russian territory. On Tuesday, even after the Russian agency acknowledged the radiation spike in the Urals, Maxim Yakovenko, the head of Roshydromet, said in a statement that higher levels of contamination had been detected in Romania than in Russia. "The published data is not sufficient to establish the location of the pollution source," he said. The authorities at Mayak denied in a news release on Tuesday that the plant had contributed to the increased levels of ruthenium 106 and insisted that there was no threat to human beings.
The accident mentioned in the article... (Score:5, Informative)
...is known as the "Mayak incident", or the "Kyshtym disaster". It is the third largest ever nuclear mishap (after Chernobyl and Fukushima).
It occurred in 1958 (I think), and it was not caused by a nuclear critical event, but rather "mundane" (but very large - equivalent of somewhere around 100 tonnes of TNT) chemical explosion within nuclear waste (mostly ammonium nitrates IIRC) which spread the waste over large distances. No one was directly killed by the event.
Re:The accident mentioned in the article... (Score:5, Interesting)
There were a series of accidents at Mayak, this is just another one. It's worth noting that this is not a power plant but a military installation producing weapons grade plutonium. Together, the accidents (one of which was actually caused by an idiot pouring a plutonium solution down the drain) have released more radioactive material than Chernobyl and Fukushima put together. The only reason this didn't result in a major catastrophe is because the surrounding area is very sparsely inhabited. But while the number of direct deaths was low, because the authorities kept the whole thing under wraps (doctors weren't allowed to diagnose people in the area with cancer for example), the number of deaths from radiation poisoning of the groundwaters is very hard to determine. We are not talking about a single big event here, more of a contamination that have been going on for decades, and because of this its impact is staggeringly large compared to its "visibility".
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Mayak is not just a military installation for producing weapons grade plutonium, it is also the main Russian spent fuel reprocessing site and an important site for medical radioisotope creation.
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one of which was actually caused by an idiot pouring a plutonium solution down the drain
Idiot is too kind. The guy won himself an instant Darwin award despite surviving for over a month after his stupidity:
http://darwinawards.com/darwin... [darwinawards.com]
Re:The accident mentioned in the article... (Score:5, Funny)
No one was directly killed by the event.
Yes, Russian Television reports is perfectly safe, no harm done, enjoy pleasant glow to save money on flashlights.
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It occurred in 1958 (I think)
September 29, 1957.
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in your heart, you know it's true (Score:1)
The USA should step in for the good of Humanity and install responsible adults to replace their current "government".
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The USA should step in for the good of Humanity and install responsible adults to replace their current "government".
I can't tell if you're being serious or funny.
Re: in your heart, you know it's true (Score:2)
Russians are vodka-addled incompetents.
Especially their rocket scientists, aircraft engineers and weapons designers.
Putin-speak style of denial (Score:5, Funny)
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John Oliver just mentioned this style of argumentation on his last episode. He showed how Trump and his supporters abused "whataboutism", by using contrast whenever presented with a big issue that had no justification in itself, thus relying on shifting focus to something else by opponents or even the interviewers themselves. They also mentioned this kind of argumentation was, and apparently still is, very common in Russian-style propaganda, going back to the 40's and 50's.
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John Oliver just mentioned this style of argumentation on his last episode....
A well educated population helps of course, but perhaps the parent points to the answer.
What if we required say 4 years of debate in high school. Included with that would be identifying all the common and even the uncommon ways to deflect, dodge, change the subject, lie, obfuscate, mislead, etc, etc. Include a couple years in college as well. Toss in plenty of practical knowledge of the scientific method, understanding statistics, etc.
Seriously.
Make every American that graduates our schooling system an ex
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I heard they eat babies daily in state college. You would expect that to make them a more expensive higher education, but apparently private college don't get the babies despite the hunderds of thou per year. I really wanted my kids to get the full college experience when I send them to Harvard...
I guess the state ends up paying for those babies. State college should just go away and stop being the money drain it is. And then we would have MORE labour out of all the babies saved.
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"But Bush". That's what I heard from Obama for 8 years.
Whataboutism is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for both parties, and always has been.
John Oliver is hardly some insightful genius, or even a decent comedian for that matter, but if that's what you think passes for remark-worthy insight, you need to expand your horizons.
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"But Bush". That's what I heard from Obama for 8 years.
Sure, but while he was doing better. Not at all things; Obama was at least as much of a warhawk as Bush. He may even have created more refugees. But that's America for you.
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Bush at least tried to put Iraq and Afghanistan back together.
You mean by handing no-bid contracts to his cronies at Halliburton? Oh yeah, let's all line up to suck his dick for that. While we're at it, we can squeeze his balls for our military's policy of force-segregating cities which had been integrated largely peacefully for years. Kind of reminds me of what we did in Iran, in a way. We just love to stir up religious hatred in the mid-east. Speaking of which, how much are we sending to Israel this year?
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Oh boy, yes he is. He is so much better than most American comedians at present. It goes to show you needed to import some quality.
I dare say most of your decent comedians of late are first or second generation immigrants, just like your smart guys leading your tech companies.
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It was a perfectly legitimate argument to use. If one didn't complain when Bush did it, one cannot complain when Obama did it.
Remember all those "illegal" executive orders Obama signed? Too bad Bush had more and both were outclassed by Reagan [snopes.com]. And after whining about those "illegal" ex
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It's not just about "how many" were signed, it's more about how they were used. Obama signed quite a few unilaterally where ethically, Congress should've been involved. Imagine if Trump tried to issue an EO ending the ACA because Congress wasn't moving fast enough - not possible, of course. He probably would though if he could, and that's not cool either.
In any case, it usually bites them back in the butt because an EO can always be undone by the following administration.
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They also mentioned this kind of argumentation was, and apparently still is, very common in Russian-style propaganda, going back to the 40's and 50's.
Uh bud. Hate to break it to you, but that kind of argumentation was and still is very common everywhere. If you need an example, look at the handwaving that democrats are currently doing with Al Franken.
By the way, has Oliver ever given Trump that campaign contribution he promised?
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Did you just whatabout me? It kinda went through my mind like this:
"Whatabout no. Whatabout everyone whatabouting everywhere. Whatabout this totally unrelated example of Al Franken and democrats not whatabouting?
BTW, whatabout this campaign contribution promise from this comedian who fortunately can interchange irony with opinion freely, since he has an audience that gets it AND is mostly immune to things like whataboutism?"
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Did you just whatabout me? It kinda went through my mind like this:
No, I pointed out the glaring hypocrisy and stupidity that argument made. See, you've just had a taste of being held to your own standards and don't like it.
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Fact 1. It's the same single isotope, and it's concentrated in russia. Very unlikely to be 2 unrelated events, and Mayak is a highly probable source.
Fact 2. Soviet era nuclear industry that the current Russian state has inherited has a long history of lying about and trying to hide nuclear accidents. They have very little credibility on this.
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Re:Putin-speak style of denial (Score:5, Interesting)
The mention of 106Ru without any mention of the other more prominent Radionuclides leads me to the conclusion that whatever bad happened was very recent, and not six decades back. That would be some 59 Half-Lifes.
I find it unlikely that it came from a Medical Facility, they just don't use enough, to be detected in this way. Fuel Reprocessing may be more likely, but it would have to be very recent Fuel, "Fresh Fission", and that is usually kept somewhere cool for a few years to calm down. So either an Incident, or a very bad Incident.
A bit more troubling is that 106Ru is pretty much only a Fission Product of 239Pu, (Bad joke: Putinium.), so Fuel alone would appear to be less and less likely, and either a sudden booboo concerning the production, or separation, of 239Pu more and more likely.
Without other Radionuclides present, separation is most likely, and Russia isn't supposed to be doing that.
A useful Graphic of Fission Yields;
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/ThermalFissionYield.svg
Putinium indeed.
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The mention of 106Ru without any mention of the other more prominent Radionuclides leads me to the conclusion that whatever bad happened was very recent, and not six decades back. That would be some 59 Half-Lifes....
Mod this guy up, everything he says is exactly right (and he provides a very informative link).
This is a release from an active plutonium processing plant which is handling relatively fresh fuel (less than a decade old, perhaps very fresh).
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The estimated release was around 200 Terabecqerels, (Around 5000 Curies. A Curie is a very large thing.) That would be, depending on the therapy, between 5 and 15 _Billion_ doses, at ~20MBq each. Unlikely is a word that is off by many orders of magnitude; these are very uncommon procedures. In any event, the trend for decades has been to make these kinds of Nuclides on the fly at Medical Cyclotrons. There are only a handful of Separation Plants, but a couple of hundred Cyclotrons scattered around the World
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Trump/Putin supporters (trolls) strategy of late when confronting factual data: ...then proceed to troll someone else while affected person actually goes find a citation.
"find me a citation"
Trump/Putin supporters (trolls) strategy when data presents a citation, either a priori or afterwards:
"fake news"
Trum/Putin supporters when asked for a citation:
"Trump/Putin said it. He's the president. Everything else is fake news"
Who still cares about what Russia says? (Score:5, Insightful)
For weeks, Russian officials had denied the French and German accusations
At this point, who the fuck cares what Russia says. The current Russian regime has lost all credibility.
1. Russia: "There are no Russian troops in Crimea"
One month later: Crimea is annexed by Russia
Russia: "Of course there were Russian troops in Crimea"
2. Russia: "The hundreds of trucks at the Ukrainian border are just delivering humanitarian supplies"
One month later: Ukrainian separatists fight back the Ukrainian government offensive which went pretty well up to that point.
3. Russia: "There are no Russian troops in eastern Ukraine. Only some guys on 'vacation' "
One month later: Russian soldiers boast about skirmishes with Ukrainian forces on social media. Mothers and wives of Russian soldiers demand answers from the Russian government on why so many sons and fathers die during 'training exercises'
4. Russia: "Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was not shot down by Ukrainian rebels using Russian supplied missiles"
Immediately thereafter: Separatist boasts on social media about shooting down Ukrainian airplane. Post quickly disappears. Photographic evidence and witnesses report of a Buk surface-to-air missile launcher being moved from eastern Ukraine into Russia.
5. Russia: "The Syrian army did not use chemical weapons against rebel positions"
UN investigation: missiles were launched during the time of the attack from Syrian army controlled territory. Russia uses UN security council veto 10 times to block further investigations.
6. Russia: "Our olympic athletes are not using illegal substances as this is rigorously controlled by our anti-doping-agency.
Independent Investigation: systematic state-sponsored doping of Russian athletes is uncovered. 19 national anti-doping organisations recommend suspending Russia from participation in all sports.
7. Russia: "We have photographic evidence that the US is supporting ISIS"
Immediately after: Media reveals that the evidence are screenshots of a video game.
Russia expects to be taken seriously about anything they have to say? Why?
Re:Who still cares about what Russia says? (Score:5, Insightful)
Russia expects to be taken seriously about anything they have to say? Why?
And yet Trump says he trusts Putin.....
I think an important distinction to be made is that the average American is not Trump in much the same vein as the average Russian is not Putin.
It's simply that average people lack the sociopathic characteristics necessary to rise to power in modern politics.
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However the average American or the average Russian doesn't have the Power or Authority to affect the world.
That said the Average Joe or Nicholi, also has to deal with their own priorities, and want their leaders to be working for their best interests so they don't need to worry every day that they will get bombed, or have troops enter their home and arrest them for wrong thinking.
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The average person voted for Trump.
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Trump *says* lots of things he knows are untrue.
He tries to drown our the big lies with a million little lies, so you don't see the big ones.
I find it bizarre that the few accounts available publicly show signs of fraud, he has 200+ shell companies almost all just empty with him and family and trusted people as directors, offshore accounts, vastly inflated property prices and borrowing to match. And yet people somehow kid themselves that his company accounts are the one place he *isn't* lying.
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5 and 7 are pretty suspect - 7 was a random twitter account which could have been anyone, .
#7 was a statement released by the Russian Defense Ministry..... [cnn.com]
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Would make Putin proud.
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and the government of your country should be taken seriously? has credibility? hahahaha!
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and the government of your country should be taken seriously? has credibility? hahahaha!
Well, yes. My country is a western European country where we have real division of powers, a free press, freedom of speech, no Internet censorship and people can demonstrate, complain and bitch about the government and our leaders all they want without getting thrown into jail or shot.
So you know, all those little things that Russia doesn't offer.
Oh, and the leaders of my country where not connected with Panama or Paradise papers, unlike some people in the inner circle of Putin's Oligarch/KGB club.
Re: Something something Trump! (Score:1)
Fuck you. Happy?
Soviet era---about the state (Score:2)
Russia detects (Score:2)
After it's been detected by France and Germany months ago (while denied by Russia), now Russia is able to detect
From West to East (Score:2)
Here in Siberia the winds blow mostly from West to East. For instance, if we want to know the weather for tomorrow we listen about current weather in some city some 1000 km in the West (Sorry, my exact location is classified).
So if you see a big spot of Ruthenium in South-West Siberia and North Kazakhstan then it's source is somewhere between Russia and the EU.
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usa legacy media now sees russia everywhere excuse/explanation is needed.
Did you sell your account to russian trolls, or have you always been a russian troll? That's a pretty low UID.
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usa legacy media now sees russia everywhere excuse/explanation is needed.
Did you sell your account to russian trolls, or have you always been a russian troll? That's a pretty low UID.
Just know this: Chernnbyl happened, and O'Bama stood by and did nothing.
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Just know this: Chernnbyl happened, and O'Bama stood by and did nothing.
Forget that, what about the emails?!1!?1?1?!!/1/11?1?!!?
Overrated? Abject coward. (Score:1)
Here, mod this down, too. I can afford the downmods, but you only have so many mod points.
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Forget the emails, I wanna know why Hillary sold 20% of our uranium supply to Russia.
This was in return for Russia selling the Democrats a lifetime supply of Krokodil, when OBams and Hillary personally use to kill the little kisd they were pimping out in Pizzagate. After the Children reach puberty, and are no longer interesting to liberals, a big dose of Krokodil sends them painfully packing and leaving this earth.
Before this, Democrats were limited to taking the children and fetuses up in jets, and dumping them overboard. Those Chemtrails? That's those children and babies. Use a Telesco
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This made me chuckle at first, but I'm now more concerned it's going to end up on Breitbart as breaking news.
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This made me chuckle at first, but I'm now more concerned it's going to end up on Breitbart as breaking news.
Then my job here is done....
It's a funny world, with all different manner of thought processes. Some of which are from people who will refuse to believe rational truths, but will believe any half baked contrary idea.
The latest foolishness is that there was some hippie stagehand accidentally caught in a helmet reflection during an Apollo 17 visit to the moon https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
If this was an accident, it was an interesting one, because the helmet shield is reflective and spherical in sh
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Just know this: Chernnbyl happened, and O'Bama stood by and did nothing.
Forget that, what about the emails?!1!?1?1?!!/1/11?1?!!?
I am chastened and embarrassed for my forgetfulness! Thanks for setting my straight. ;^)
Re: Stick to tech news (Score:1)
Re: Stick to tech news (Score:2)
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Once again, proof of media ignorance about radiation risk.
Re:Stick to tech news (Score:5, Informative)
I hope you just don't understand the idiocy you are spouting, because https://www.lenntech.com/perio... [lenntech.com]
"All ruthenium compounds should be regarded as highly toxic and as carcinogenic. Compounds of ruthenium stain the skin very strongly. It seems that ingested ruthenium is retained strongly in bones. Ruthenium oxide, RuO4, is highly toxic and volatile, and to be avoided."
Then the very next paragraph "Rhutenium 106 is one of the radionuclides involved in atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons, which began in 1945, with a US test, and ended in 1980 with a Chinese test. It is among the long-lived radionuclides that have produced and will continue to produce increased cancers risk for decades and centuries to come."
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Ruthenium is used in some thin film solar cells. People working with it are exposed to trace levels of it, much greater than anyone in the path of this 'cloud'. Why does THAT not scare you so much?
You know what you should be scared of. Its a chemical you are exposed to at 1000 times normal levels when you are near automotive traffic or gas stations. It causes various forms of cancer, can cause birth defects, convulsions, and various other things. Why
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Nice generalities, sounds scary. Now talk about the exposure risk for this particular event and the trace amounts detected.
That's a good question. Since Russia has been downplaying the danger instead of studying it and reporting on it faithfully like a good world citizen, we don't actually know how much material was released. Compare Tepco literally lying every time they make a statement about radiation release. We have had to revise the estimates of the danger from the Fukushima event over and over (and over and over) again because literally everything they have said has been a lie. That's exactly the same as how Russia operat
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There has been no revision of Fukushima health impacts estimates. The estimate was carefully performed and well documented using the same methodology as after Chernobyl, where we found the actual health impacts much lower than estimated. There are extremely small radiological health risks from Fukushima.
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Oh my! That sounds almost as dangerous as Dihydrogen Monoxide!
Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous com
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Those must be the same people puzzled by unexplained bright objects around the globe in the night sky that appear to "burn bright", "have a tail", and "disappear" after traveling on a continuous arc for a few seconds. MUST BE ALIENS!