Should Plant-Based Meat Replace Beef Completely? (pbs.org) 669
Long-time Slashdot reader tcd004 writes: Is beef still "what's for dinner?" Plant-based meat substitute startups say they could provide enough protein to feed the world using only 2% of the land on Earth, dramatically reducing the resources required to create beef products. And adopting plant-based burgers could help reduce heart disease, protect water resources, and stop deforestation. But Beef producers say no laboratory can beat a steer's ability to turn plant-based nutrition into tasty protein, and animals are the best source for natural fertilizer to grow crops. There's a coming war for your dinner plate. Who will prevail?
If it's a good substitute, it should replace beef. (Score:5, Insightful)
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
I'd pin my hopes on vat-grown beef before a plant-based option.
Re:If it's a good substitute, it should replace be (Score:5, Insightful)
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
I'd pin my hopes on vat-grown beef before a plant-based option.
Exactly. I question the ability to produce a lot of other nutrients beside just the meat proteins.
But reading the transcript, that was a 100 percent vegan mutual masturbation session. Worse than the people that come on and bleat about how awesome it is to eat insects
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But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
There is not (yet) a good substitute for beef, but fake chicken is pretty good.
Re: If it's a good substitute, it should replace b (Score:2)
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I was given a sample of an incredibly ok faux meat at whole foods a few months back. I don't remember the name of it, because, well, I eat real meat, but it was a very decent beef imitation, and if they can bring the cost down to less than real meat I could see myself eating faux-burgers from now own. (Unfortunately it was like 1.25 times the cost of actual ground beef FROM WHOLE FOODS, which is already an inflated meat price compared to other grocers)
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Just remembered, it was called a Beyond Burger. And according to the googles it's actually a lot more expensive than I remembered, so fuck that. $12/lb is not a good price point for competing with beef, although I think it's probably tolerable for catering to the vegans.
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$6/lb, sorry. I could have sworn there was an edit post button here back when...
Re:If it's a good substitute, it should replace be (Score:5, Insightful)
Replacing beef with plants will do *nothing* for the starving nations of the world, because we can already feed them three times over. Source. [worldhunger.org]
World hunger is not a production problem, it is a distribution problem. It will not be solved by eliminating meat from anyone's diet.
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Global warming might be solved by eliminating meat from people's diets, though. The carbon emissions of meat and especially of beef are extremely high compared to plant food, as is the land use. I eat meat because it tastes better and is cheap -- but perhaps it would be a good idea to tax meat for the external effects it has.
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Agriculture is only responsible for 10-15% of GHG emissions, and meat is only a portion of that.
Re:If it's a good substitute, it should replace be (Score:5, Interesting)
There's grass-fed beef. It won't satisfy people who don't eat meat for ethical reasons, but it does have less environmental impact than feedlot fattened beef.
On the other hand it's leaner, and the flavor is different and takes some getting used to. It also take somewhat more land to grow a set number of pounds of beef -- although that land isn't cultivated. Also the USDA has stopped attempting to police the term "grass fed" so you can't quite be sure whether you're actually getting grass-finished beef now. All beef cattle forage for grass at some point in their lives so you could be getting anything.
That means going with meat from a local farmer -- which is terrific in terms of quality and environmental impact, but costs a lot more on a per-pound basis.
On the other other hand consuming less of higher quality meat is probably a good thing. You don't really need that much protein. Practically everyone could probably manage an upgrade in culinary quality, healthiness and environmental impact at the same time, but it would take some thought and adjustment.
I for one, consume our bovine overlords.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Assuming that moral views of meat doesn't change, and that science doesn't invent a way to just grow protein in a vat using only sunlight, the cost of the resources required to grow the animals will likely put a hamburger out of reach for a lot of people. So, change is coming one way or another.
Re:If it's a good substitute, it should replace be (Score:4, Insightful)
... Plant base diet is much more adapted for human...
Vitamin B12 says otherwise.
The diet requiring less supplementation (or ideally none at all), i.e. naturally providing all necessary nutrients, would logically be the one most adapted for humans.
Re:If it's a good substitute, it should replace be (Score:5, Informative)
How can vegetarianism persist in India?
You do know that vitamin deficiency is a big problem in India, right?
https://timesofindia.indiatime... [indiatimes.com]
Educational thing (Score:3, Interesting)
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Give children plant-based meat, and they wouldn't live lone enough to become an adult.
Fixed that for you. Humans require meat.
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Veganism/vegetarianism is a viable dietary strategy for humans, but it requires a lot more knowledge of nutrition in order to get all the amino acids we require than is required by just eating a steak every once in a while. It also has much less calories by volume than a diet with animal derived proteins and fats.
The only non-meat complete protein I can think of off the top of my head is the native American combo of corn beans and squash, and even with that the corn has to be nixtamalised in order to free n
Re:Educational thing (Score:4, Informative)
It's not just the amino acids. There's a whole bunch of stuff in animal products that are lacking in plants. Vitamin B12 is the major example, but also vitamin D and EHA/DHA oils.
Re:Educational thing (Score:5, Funny)
We need to consume the animals souls too, in order to revivify our life force [moviehotties.com]. Kind of like space vampires need to do with humans.
It's why most human religious festivals require the death of animals and the consumption of their flesh, for example turkey at Christmas.
Re:Educational thing (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no need for total vegetarianism. Almost everyone in the developed world - which is fast becoming a lot more of the world than it once was - eats far more meat than is required to maintain health. Just cut it back.
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Panda: Habitat: Global
Global Zoos, you mean.
Re:Educational thing (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, only some populations are genetically equipped [cornell.edu] for a vegetarian diet. For the rest, lack of meat causes brain shrinkage [couriermail.com.au] and mental disorders [blogspot.com]. And populations that originated from Europe tend to lack such genes -- and some, like the Inuit, are even more extreme.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful. Especially for children [independent.co.uk], to the point of proposed bills [dailycaller.com] that outlaw feeding children vegan.
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Re:Educational thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Nope, only some populations are genetically equipped [cornell.edu] for a vegetarian diet. For the rest, lack of meat causes brain shrinkage [couriermail.com.au] and mental disorders [blogspot.com].
This. There is a long out of print book by Mark Vonnegut called "The Eden Express" Mark suffered from Schizophrenia in the early 1970's, and much of his problems were based on a vegetarian diet. After stabilizing him with Thorazine and shock treatments, he went on a normal diet, and with vitamin supplements, became a normal productive person.
I tried vegatarianism in the early 1980's, and while I didn't go any crazier than I am now, it severely fucked up my digestive system. Fortunately, going back to a normal diet reset my intestinal flora.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful.
I have always thought that a vegan starts out with trying to define everything in life as good or bad (this is a bad thing to do, and leads to bad mental outcomes) So they embark on a journey to try to ensure that everything they do is good.
Killing animals is bad, especially the cute ones, so eating their "corpse meat" is likewise bad. So they stop. That Chicken didn't give you permission to eat it's eggs, or that cow it's milk or the honey we callously steal from the innocent bees. So that is verboten.
So they embark on this completely irrational and artificial and un-natural diet of only things they have determined are ethically "good".
My reply to them is that just who are they to set themselves up as arbiter of what is good and bad.
All life is precious, from the lowest bacteria to yeasts, to plants, to animals. And unless a human being somehow becomes a chemoautotroph, and can surgive by directly taking minerals and digesting them, the human does not live unless the human kills another life form. No way around it. The vegan is no less a killer than the meat eaters they consider below them.
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There is nothing magical about meat, it's just chemicals. I doubt there is any nutritionally useful chemical in meat we can't already mass produce cheaply.
Stuff like Coenzyme Q10, hydroxocobalamin (B12 as it occurs in meat), L-carnosine, Taurine etc. are not common in vegan diets ... but you can just fortify the food.
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Can't say I trust the agricultural industry either. Your average chunk of limp, fatty beef/pork/chicken/etc. would be barely recognizable as meat to our ancestors of a few centuries ago. Ditto most of our modern flavorless, low-nutrient fruits and vegetables.
vegetarianism is species racism (Score:2, Insightful)
Plants are living things too, what makes you think that its ok to eat plants but not animals?
Some unjustifiable belief that animals are more important than plants?
I don't have the answer, but this is not it
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It is stupid to put forward an argument that you don't even believe yourself.
And yet Hillary Clinton still won the popular vote.
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now that he won he won't investigate any of the voting issues.
Other than the commission he immediately formed to do just that, which immediately started gathering data for that purpose. Of course liberal governors of several blue states promptly declined to supply the requested data, for purely partisan reasons. Because they didn't WANT anyone to look into the irregularities in their states that went solidly for Clinton.
Re:vegetarianism is species racism (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well, they don't have central nervous systems, but there is some evidence that plants do feel pain [howstuffworks.com].
What does it taste like? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Obviously, but whoever said that what people choose to put in their own bodies is generally going to be determined by objective criteria in the first place?
If it is good enough... (Score:2, Informative)
Absolutely if it is equal in taste and nutrition.
Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger are growing rapidly, and might well end up capturing huge amounts of the US beef market.
https://www.fooddive.com/news/impossible-burger-making-its-way-to-foodservice-venues/507812/ [fooddive.com]
Eggs will likely be replaced by plant based artificial eggs in most of the food industry.
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/06/the-worlds-first-plant-based-egg-is-putting-the-egg-industry-in-a-panic/ [collective-evolution.com]
Hopefully most stuff made of meat will
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Whatever you do.... (Score:2)
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Whatever you do, please call your "plant based" beef "Soylent Beef". That brand name has some marvelous associative name-recognition positives in the marketing data.
FTFY
One must learn to always view these things first as a marketing/branding campaign, as that's typically how they are eventually perceived, if not viewed that way right from the beginning.
It seems insane, true. Keep in mind, however, that we are descendants of Golgafrincham hairdressers, telephone sanitizers, and marketing executives. "We'll have to burn down all the forests to prevent inflation."
Strat
No to designed diets. (Score:2, Insightful)
A generation of smart people who can study, do sport and who are on average healthy.
Consider a population over a generation who was on a more restricted diet?
Stunted, weak, effeminate, sick. Lacking in the nutrition to grow strong and to an average normal level given good nutrition.
Ensure your population gets good food. Beef, fruit, vegetables, clean water. Access to education and sport.
Why weaken and force a generation of hea
No enviro food taboos (Score:5, Insightful)
People should eat what they want. They want beef, they pay for beef, they should get beef.
What kind of world asks people to accept a sad substitute for real food? Why should we all agree to lead impoverished lives, generation after generation, forever?
So we can go to environmentalist heaven? I'd rather not.
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the benign and omniscient government officials know better, what you should eat
Ruling from atop their sacred food pyramid?
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I have to agree, the frozen veggie burgers aren't the greatest. Bean Burgers, like Hummus need to be made fresh, and they also need a little bit of raw egg to hold them together.
If you are ever in the neighborhood, stop here for a Homemade Black Bean Burger [weebly.com], made fresh (with a little bit of egg), they bean burgers are amazing and as good as a hamburger. There are nothing like the frozen bean burger ilk. Try making them yourself and see how good they can be.
I'm holding out for slig! (Score:2)
I still prefer a NY steak, medium-rare please. (Score:2)
This headline is a joke. If you think yes, then go ahead and eat your tofurky, but don't teach others what to eat.
Try this, it's good... (Score:5, Informative)
So for health reasons, I have had to change my diet. If you haven't tried this meat substitute, it is amazing....
Seven Grain Chicken Tenders [target.com]
and you can get them at Target.
Even fast food is becoming plant based. As meat prices go UP UP UP and fast food prices stay at $1.99, they need to use filler in the meat. That filler is SOY bean, which incidentally, had the largest crop ever last year. [usda.gov] Also, don't fear the SOY, you won't grow breasts or start singing alto.
Eat less meat, more plants. You will feel better, look better, and cut your cancer risk.
I would (Score:2)
I for one eat animal products because they provide complete proteins more readily and make it easy to consume lower calories. My focus is on protein intake and convenience. If there is a plant substitute, I would be all for it. I understand that I am in the minority though. I am one of those that are not wired to get a lot of excitement out of food. If it is cheap, nutritious and is versatile - I would take it. Meat should be an occasional indulgence, rather than staple.
Trouble is, things like this should c
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Beans and Rice are compliments that give complete proteins. They are among the cheapest foods that you can get a hold of and have numerous recipes for them.
That can replace any animal protein and budgetary concerns you have.
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Oxymoron (Score:2)
My Punch List on the Subject (Score:5, Interesting)
* It is likely your last cucumber sandwich killed as many animals as your last hamburger.
* Humans were evolved to eat meat. To be fully vegetarian you would need a much longer digestive tract in which you could ferment plant matter like a gorilla or cow.
* Zinc, B12, and about a dozen other micro-nutrients that are NOT optional are hard to get for a vegetarian and impossible for a vegan. Popping a bunch of dietary supplements is a poor substitute and no way to live.
* There has never been a sustained human population that was fully vegetarian.
* The way we treat food animals is cruel, horrific and unconscionable. This is one area where the militant vegans and I see eye to eye. It has to stop.
* Cattle and other food animals can be easily raised on land that is not farmable. Too rocky too steep or soil where only grasses grow. The animal secretions help the ecosystem build more fertile topsoil. Other species live with cow pastures whereas plant agriculture tends toward monoculture where everything but the desired crop is poisoned and killed.
That's off the top of my head. I have a couple dozen more points but I am done for tonight.
Re:My Punch List on the Subject (Score:5, Informative)
Naked bullshit.
It's not like there are millions of Indians who are vegetarian, is it? Oh wait, there are.
Bullshit. Cattle live on land that is suitable for arable farming and take massive amounts of water. Sheep, or goats, maybe, but how many people in the USA eats sheep or goat?
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The guy you're replying to forgot that typical vegan don't count anything smaller than a bird as a living thing. They judge which forms of life are OK to kill and which are not. So all sort of bugs that get killed, dislocated or whatever when the harvest season begin - don't matter. They cannot see them, hence they're not important ( in the eyes of the vegans ).
> It's not like there are millions of Indians who are vegetarian, is it? Oh wait, there are.
Yeah, let's look at the
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It takes somewhere around 4.67 pounds of corn for a pound of beef [extension.org]
You should not be feeding cows corn. It is done a lot because it is very cheap. But corn is not natural to cows instead they were evolved to eat grass. When you stuff them in feed lots and force them to eat corn their digestive tracts turn septic and they start breeding pathogens. Crammed together the way they are they pass that around. That is why cows are given antibiotics.
The problem isn't meat. The problem is factory farmed cheap meat.
By reasonably consideration, you're killing a ton of insects to grow that 4.67 pounds of corn relative to cucumbers.
This makes no sense. People grow corn for all sorts of rea
Beef producers are wrong about fertilizer (Score:5, Insightful)
So I'm a farmer, but I must confess that the beef producers are wrong about the natural fertilizer thing. The fact is that all food (human or animal) removes nutrients from the soil in which they grew. Cattle concentrate some nutrients in their manure which can be placed back on the land, but the nutrients that go into the beef itself end up in human waste products. If those are not recycled, they are removed from the farm land, and must be replaced with nutrients from another source, usually mined in the form of minerals like phosphate.
Either way you look at it, to get sustainable food production, we must recycling all organic waste, even human waste, back into farms and fields. If this loop is closed, then obviously plant-based proteins are going to be our best, most efficient bet.
I for one have no problem with replacing meat with plant proteins if we can get the taste and texture somewhat good. I'm in favor.
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2) "Nutrients" do not necessarily survive cellular processes. The catalyst-type nutr
Seaquest DSV - prediction came true (Score:2)
Meat was outlawed and replaced by a plant based surrogate.
But according to the series due to production of methane which carries a high impact on global warming due to being 25 times as potent as CO2.
Next there are fusion powered atmospheric converters catching CO2 and producing O2 because mankind has reduced the forest and cut off that O2 source.
Ohh wait .. the swiss are going to trial that minus the fusion powered and O2 regeneration.
Should? Who is Making this Decision, for Whom? (Score:2)
I read this transcript, and like most well meaning generalizations, it fails to provide specific actors other than "we", "us", "the United States" and "the rest of the world."
So no, in general, without a specific actor, plant-based meat should not replace beef. That is because:
1.) There is no such thing as plant based meat. It does not exist, despite how much anyone wants it to exist.
2.) For whom should this replacement apply? I think this should be up to individuals to decide. If the costs to the planet ar
Obesity linked to excess meat in diet (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I don't eat meat any more but you just have to look at the trends of the last few decades and the increasing availability of cheap mass farmed meats and the death of the traditional butcher shop to see the impact our current eating habits have on us. If we returned to meat being more of a treat we would be a lot healthier than we are but the meat industry has convinced everyone that they must eat far more meat than they actually should and worse, they have scaled up production to appalling levels inflicting terrible short lives on the animals people are eating.
I visited the USDA-MARC in Nebraska some years back and they are busy breeding animals to produce more meat with less food input and in shorter time because that's what the farmers want. The product of this intensive farming doesn't taste good compared with grass fed animals but people want (or have been convinced they want) a lot of cheap meat. Whatever technology can do to improve our diets and reduce the mistreatment of animals has got to be good. I wouldn't go so far as saying people can't eat meat, but I have to say that the amount of abuse I get from people who do eat it because I won't shows that they clearly know they're the ones on the wrong side of the fence.
When we run out of Beef... (Score:5, Funny)
Farm animals have it better than wild ones, (Score:5, Insightful)
At the headquarters of Denali National Park, there is an exhibit on caribou. They do not have an easy life. Four fifth of the calves never make it to adulthood, mostly falling to predators who rip them apart and eat them alive. The survivors are plagued by swarms of biting flies and parasites that burrow tunnels in their haunches before they are weakened by age or disease, and ripped apart by a predator.
This contrasts with responsibly raised farm animals, who have room, board, and medical care, live much longer than their cousins in the wild. They certainly die more humanely than being eaten alive, in fact they die more humanely than most of us do hooked up to machines.
I grew up in the country and saw how wild animals lived. I suspect that most animal rights people’s experience with animals is limited to dog, cats, and zoos.
While on a bus at Denali, we saw a fox walk by with a bloody squirrel dripping from his jaws This was a revelation to my wife who was raised in a genteel suburb. From the oohs and aahs it caused it seemed to be a revelation to most of the passengers.
While I certainly back humane treatment of captive animals,. I think at the further end, animal rights people, isolated from nature, are projecting their human selves on animals.
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But no unlimited internet?
Depends on your goals... (Score:3)
Depends on your goals...
If your goal is to create centralized, industrialized, Big Ag food then plant based pseudo meat works great.
If your goal is decentralized, small farm, local economies then pasture based grazing animal based real meat works great.
Frankly, there is no need to call plant based foods meat - that is deception. Call them what they are: Highly processed plant based foods.
I'll take the real thing any day.
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Meat is amensalism, at worst. Cannibalism is murder.
Article is manipulative (Score:5, Insightful)
The author wants us decide for the world what they should do.
How about those who want artificial beef eat that, and those who want genuine beef eat that.
Let's not make rules for others, because bit by bit it will erode our freedoms.
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How about those who want artificial beef eat that, and those who want genuine beef eat that.
Sounds good, as long as the omnivores keep all the methane in their own private atmosphere.
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Exactly.... if the Artificial beef is a good substitute and its less-resource-intensive AND less expensive to produce and sell, then let it win the marketplace on its own..... first step: Is it good enough for Fast Food Restaurants like McDonalds to pick it up and use it as beef substitute without their customers noticing a deteoriation in the taste?
Re: Article is manipulative (Score:3)
Is it good enough for Fast Food Restaurants like McDonalds...
Geez, why make the bar so high?
Re:Article is manipulative (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Article is manipulative (Score:5, Informative)
Wonder if anyone has researched the parasites left in the latrines to see where people came from when they went?
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Possible, I suppose. But they'd be pretty much like falafel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Article is manipulative (Score:4, Insightful)
All I see is meat ads all day long. You've been brainwashed.
Watch less TV. Your brainwashing will diminish.
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That's what they said about the nonsmokers...
Re:Article is manipulative (Score:4, Insightful)
Let me know next time you see a cow performing brain surgery or correctly answering any question in a 5th grade class.
We are animals, just a different species from bovine. In nature one species preys on another. That's life, that's death, that's nature - too bad.
Secondly, this is a capitalistic economy - if I want to eat meat and I can afford it, I'm going to buy meat and enjoy the hell out of it. Someone else makes a living preparing my steak and someone else makes a living growing my steak. The minute you tell me what I can and can't do, that's a dictatorship, and you're going to be at the angry end of a revolution.
And by the way, I also love venison. I shot a moose this year and it's some of the best meat I've ever eaten.
Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
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Meat is the most calorically efficient food on the planet.
Look around at your fellow humans. Dense calories was a benefit in the stone age, not today. Even in poor countries, obesity is more common than hunger.
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Re:Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
There are very good arguments that the state of our fellow humans today isn't due to available calories, it's due to the way we've messed with the form of those calories.
The drawback of plant-based substitute meat is that you have to put all your faith in corporate food engineering, and that industry has demonstrated on more than one occasion that they will not only take a casual attitude to towards the health of their customers, but will also actively cover up known concerns with their products.
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Why do we need high energy density foods? Outside of disaster relief situations.
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You are outnumbered by vegetarian lifeforms.
Yes, the food that my food eats.
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Additionally, we only engage in coprophagia to correct digestive deficiencies.
Re:Yes (Score:4, Insightful)
Right. Because they never keep cows in sheds/pens and feed them corn [imgur.com].
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fructose has been shown to be far more efficient of a fuel source for the human metabolism than fat or protein.
Most cells in your body cannot metabolize fructose. Instead, it goes to the liver first, and excess amounts of fructose (typical for a highly refined junk western diet) lead to hypertriglyceridemia, and fat deposits inside the liver tissue itself (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease).
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I suppose you're right in a sense. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. Mmm..
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Re: Yes (Score:4, Insightful)
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The meat needs to eat those plants :(
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If meat is murder, then lions are mass murderers. Who will bring justice to the savanna?
If lions aren't evil, then no carnivore is evil.
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Not interested in your silly hairsplitting. A hungry man and a hungry lion have the same motive, they take the same action, they have the same guilt for their actions.
If a lion isn't evil for eating an animal, a man isn't.
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Lions don't know better, nor do they have any other food options, being obligate carnivores with smallish brains and massive teeth and claws. Humans do know better and are not obligate carnivores.
Using a double standard to judge is unjust.
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Judging can be though. A benevolent judge wouldn't condemn a hungry lion, doing what comes naturally to thrive and sustain himself and his family.
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Most vegans i've met don't look healthy...
You should see their vegan pet wolf
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Which is exactly the point being made, and needs explaining to those who call themselves vegetarians but still eat fish.
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The proper term is pescatarian.
Re:The birth of Jesus Christ: A warning to atheis (Score:2)
"the Holy Gospel according to Luke:"
Who is gonna take any notice of what he said, after watching The Last Jedi
and he destroyed all the books
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Its not a beef problem.
Just support the water and power networks again and water will flow again as it did in the past.
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4) Numerous scientific studies prove that a properly managed vegan diet is, at least, adequate, if not superior.
Superior to a standard junk diet. Not superior to a properly managed diet that includes meat, dairy, and eggs.